Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[Paddington Bear]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

[Sandstorm]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

I told ‘em to borrow and spend, regardless of the interest rates back in December.

[robmatic]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

[Paddington Bear]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

[Slick]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Any coincidence that the rapid growth of social media started around then as well? So much of policy seems to be based around the noisy minority on social media.

[I like neeps]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Starmer has a large majority but no mandate because he didn't run on many policies at all. They could have tried to build consensus on the benefits reform pre election to head off any rebellion with this is what people voted for but no because his platform was we're not the Tories.

[dpedin]

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Starmer has a large majority but no mandate because he didn't run on many policies at all. They could have tried to build consensus on the benefits reform pre election to head off any rebellion but no because his platform was we're not the Tories.

I think the whole kerfuffle around Starmer et al is a just a bit over the top. Blair had a similar experience early in his Premiership in 97 - 47 voted against, 100 abstained and a Minister and 2 PPS resign. He seemed to do ok thereafter despite numerous other 'rebellions' - he was hardly a lame duck or pressed over a shitshow, although some might say he did. It is pretty obvious they are still trying to force through all the difficult issues in their first year or so whilst they have a huge majority and 4 more years in power. Yes they could have managed this better and will learn from this skirmish but it will all be forgotten about within a matter of weeks.

[Tichtheid]

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Cameron was forced against his will to hold the Brexit referendum and subsequently ran away when it went against his express wishes instead of staying and fighting the case for avoiding the greatest incidence of self-harm inflicted by any government in living memory.

He didn't have the wherewithal to face down a faction that John Major called "Bastards", Cameron emboldened these fuckers and we are where are now as a result.

[SaintK]

Tax rises now inevitable and very little if any room for the government to spend some cash which might turn the tide

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Yes and we are still suffering the pain of the austerity that Cameron and Osborne imposed

[SaintK]

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Starmer has a large majority but no mandate because he didn't run on many policies at all. They could have tried to build consensus on the benefits reform pre election to head off any rebellion but no because his platform was we're not the Tories.

I think the whole kerfuffle around Starmer et al is a just a bit over the top. Blair had a similar experience early in his Premiership in 97 - 47 voted against, 100 abstained and a Minister and 2 PPS resign. He seemed to do ok thereafter despite numerous other 'rebellions' - he was hardly a lame duck or pressed over a shitshow, although some might say he did. It is pretty obvious they are still trying to force through all the difficult issues in their first year or so whilst they have a huge majority and 4 more years in power. Yes they could have managed this better and will learn from this skirmish but it will all be forgotten about within a matter of weeks.

It was a shambles yesterday (and the past few weeks) and I reckon that will embolden the Labour parliamentary party and we will see more rebellions.
The current leadership appear to have forgotten how to manage government business after 14 years in opposition

[I like neeps]

Starmer has a large majority but no mandate because he didn't run on many policies at all. They could have tried to build consensus on the benefits reform pre election to head off any rebellion but no because his platform was we're not the Tories.

I think the whole kerfuffle around Starmer et al is a just a bit over the top. Blair had a similar experience early in his Premiership in 97 - 47 voted against, 100 abstained and a Minister and 2 PPS resign. He seemed to do ok thereafter despite numerous other 'rebellions' - he was hardly a lame duck or pressed over a shitshow, although some might say he did. It is pretty obvious they are still trying to force through all the difficult issues in their first year or so whilst they have a huge majority and 4 more years in power. Yes they could have managed this better and will learn from this skirmish but it will all be forgotten about within a matter of weeks.

It was a shambles yesterday (and the past few weeks) and I reckon that will embolden the Labour parliamentary party and we will see more rebellions.
The current leadership appear to have forgotten how to manage government business after 14 years in opposition

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

[Tichtheid]

If they can't handly this kind of thing now, the rest of the term is going to be a shit show. PIP as an issue is crying out for reform - people aren't being handled with dignity and at the same time the number of working age claims is increasingly alarmingly rapidly and the UK has (for some reason) the highest percentage of disabled people in Europe.

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Yes and we are still suffering the pain of the austerity that Cameron and Osborne imposed

Yep, and as I keep saying, despite the slash and burn approach to public services the national debt rose every year of their tenure. It only just about steadied as a percentage of GDP, but was still way higher than the 60% of GDP maximum agreed by the Maastricht Treaty on Debt and Deficit. Even ten years into their run they were still running at over 80% of GDP - I'm giving them a break for pandemic spending, all governments had to spend heavily then. Although the spending in the UK during that period is worth its own scrutiny to see who benefitted.

[Sandstorm]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

Oxbot is right: we're marching helplessly to a Reform Government in 2029. No way Starmer and Co have any talent to turn it around.

[Slick]

Yep. They’ve also shown their backbenchers that their whipping operation is worthless and if they organise they can not only get concessions, they can get the whole thing binned.

So we arrive at another lame duck PM unable to implement an agenda, I make it basically a decade since a PM (Cameron) was actually able to do this.

Starmer has a large majority but no mandate because he didn't run on many policies at all. They could have tried to build consensus on the benefits reform pre election to head off any rebellion but no because his platform was we're not the Tories.

I think the whole kerfuffle around Starmer et al is a just a bit over the top. Blair had a similar experience early in his Premiership in 97 - 47 voted against, 100 abstained and a Minister and 2 PPS resign. He seemed to do ok thereafter despite numerous other 'rebellions' - he was hardly a lame duck or pressed over a shitshow, although some might say he did. It is pretty obvious they are still trying to force through all the difficult issues in their first year or so whilst they have a huge majority and 4 more years in power. Yes they could have managed this better and will learn from this skirmish but it will all be forgotten about within a matter of weeks.

I agree with this

[Tichtheid]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

Oxbot is right: we're marching helplessly to a Reform Government in 2029. No way Starmer and Co have any talent to turn it around.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I think it might be worth seeing how Reform get on as local councillors

[SaintK]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

Oxbot is right: we're marching helplessly to a Reform Government in 2029. No way Starmer and Co have any talent to turn it around.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I think it might be worth seeing how Reform get on as local councillors

Or when the stop telling us what is wrong with the country and start telling us how they will put things right!

[I like neeps]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

Oxbot is right: we're marching helplessly to a Reform Government in 2029. No way Starmer and Co have any talent to turn it around.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I think it might be worth seeing how Reform get on as local councillors

It'll almost certainly be a disaster. Fortunately for Reform people dont know what is the responsibility of the council and so any local failings they'll blame national government on.

It's wishful thinking to think that Reforms electoral chances are at all related to their performances in the councils across the UK. Reform have a mess in both Labour and the Tories and a stagnant if not declining country. Thats their electoral chance.

[Paddington Bear]

https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1939981392579842376


Some context for why the government wanted to push through welfare reforms - are we seriously to pretend this is 1) real and 2) sustainable

[sockwithaticket]

I have no trouble believing that ever growing awareness of conditions like Autism and ADHD has seen drastic rises in those seeking diagnosis and getting it. Not unlike people going 'oh everyone's LGBT now', no they were always there, just increasing numbers are open about it.

There is also emerging data indicating that such conditions are more likely the later people have children. Older fathers in particular are being linked to higher incidence of autism spectrum disorder. We're quite a way into the trend of parenthood starting later and later now, which means each year is going to bring a new cohort into adulthood with a number of people suffering from ASD or ADHD to a debilitating extent.

Also not surprised at rising rates of anxiety and depression given all that's occurred between 2019 and now. The state of NHS mental health services is dire. Good luck getting treated in anything like a timely fashion, so if you do suffer, it's not exactly easy to get yourself taken out of those stats.

All that said, the proposed reforms weren't particularly targetted at that stuff and were going to penalise people who are far more readily categorised as disabled and in need of PIP. The points system wanted to withdraw it from anyone who didn't score 4 points, yet being unable to wash your own lower half only scored 2.

I don't believe the increases are sustainable, but I also don't think the answer is 'well, they're clearly all just faking it'.

Rise in obesity is the one I have least sympathy with. There's often a mental heath component in becoming that fat, but not always. And the remedy is simple enough. Someone can't help being autistic or clinically depressed, they can control food portions and whether or not they exercise.

[robmatic]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

Oxbot is right: we're marching helplessly to a Reform Government in 2029. No way Starmer and Co have any talent to turn it around.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I think it might be worth seeing how Reform get on as local councillors

Nobody will give a shit about their local council performance when it comes to the general election.

[robmatic]

I have no trouble believing that ever growing awareness of conditions like Autism and ADHD has seen drastic rises in those seeking diagnosis and getting it. Not unlike people going 'oh everyone's LGBT now', no they were always there, just increasing numbers are open about it.

There is also emerging data indicating that such conditions are more likely the later people have children. Older fathers in particular are being linked to higher incidence of autism spectrum disorder. We're quite a way into the trend of parenthood starting later and later now, which means each year is going to bring a new cohort into adulthood with a number of people suffering from ASD or ADHD to a debilitating extent.

Also not surprised at rising rates of anxiety and depression given all that's occurred between 2019 and now. The state of NHS mental health services is dire. Good luck getting treated in anything like a timely fashion, so if you do suffer, it's not exactly easy to get yourself taken out of those stats.

All that said, the proposed reforms weren't particularly targetted at that stuff and were going to penalise people who are far more readily categorised as disabled and in need of PIP. The points system wanted to withdraw it from anyone who didn't score 4 points, yet being unable to wash your own lower half only scored 2.

I don't believe the increases are sustainable, but I also don't think the answer is 'well, they're clearly all just faking it'.

Rise in obesity is the one I have least sympathy with. There's often a mental heath component in becoming that fat, but not always. And the remedy is simple enough. Someone can't help being autistic or clinically depressed, they can control food portions and whether or not they exercise.

This is the British bureaucratic state in a nutshell though. Widen access to something based on some very generous legalistic interpretations (in this case, some mental health conditions that apparently weren't worthy of financial support in the dark days before 2019), get some political pushback after everyone rushes to benefit from it and the budget doesn't work anymore, then put in place bureacratic barriers that apply to everybody in a vain attempt to get the overall numbers down.

You see the same with the Home Office and immigration.

[C T]

I have no trouble believing that ever growing awareness of conditions like Autism and ADHD has seen drastic rises in those seeking diagnosis and getting it. Not unlike people going 'oh everyone's LGBT now', no they were always there, just increasing numbers are open about it.

There is also emerging data indicating that such conditions are more likely the later people have children. Older fathers in particular are being linked to higher incidence of autism spectrum disorder. We're quite a way into the trend of parenthood starting later and later now, which means each year is going to bring a new cohort into adulthood with a number of people suffering from ASD or ADHD to a debilitating extent.

Also not surprised at rising rates of anxiety and depression given all that's occurred between 2019 and now. The state of NHS mental health services is dire. Good luck getting treated in anything like a timely fashion, so if you do suffer, it's not exactly easy to get yourself taken out of those stats.

All that said, the proposed reforms weren't particularly targetted at that stuff and were going to penalise people who are far more readily categorised as disabled and in need of PIP. The points system wanted to withdraw it from anyone who didn't score 4 points, yet being unable to wash your own lower half only scored 2.

I don't believe the increases are sustainable, but I also don't think the answer is 'well, they're clearly all just faking it'.

Rise in obesity is the one I have least sympathy with. There's often a mental heath component in becoming that fat, but not always. And the remedy is simple enough. Someone can't help being autistic or clinically depressed, they can control food portions and whether or not they exercise.

There should be some acknowledgement somewhere that this is a very difficult thing to do, because it's dealing with things that I don't think we've got a particularly good grasp on.

For example, an ADHD or Autism Spectrum diagnoses doesn't necessarily mean an individual can't work, but sometimes it might/should.

Perhaps to try and best make my point I'm going to use language. Back say 15/20 years ago there used to be quite a language divide. Sadness meant the emotion that humans feel sometimes, depression meant an illness. Worried meant the human emotion that we need to expect by existing, anxiety a condition.

I hardly hear people say they are sad or worried at all now, it's always depressed or anxious.

I know it's a small point, but something is going on where where the line between the human condition and an illness is getting blurred and somehow a mechanism is required to deal with that. It's an extremely emotive topic as well, glad I'm not doing that job.

Personally I'd like Labour to admit this is going to take some time to get right and essentially say this is a first step.

[tabascoboy]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

You have to wonder sometimes if the UK as a whole is starting to become ungovernable in the way that we have been used to over the previous few decades either because of global factors completely outside of our control, such as covid and/ or internal incompetence. Whether or not we agreed with their ideas, policies and beliefs, it feels like we had many very capable politicians whom we might dislike but fitted their ministerial office well enough and felt like they were "in charge" with their party mostly as a whole behind them. Sure they may have messed up from time to time and it was by no means a golden age but they inspired more confidence than virtually anyone in government or opposition in the last 15 years or so.

Are their people out there somewhere who could rise to the challenge but either preferred other spheres of work or were put off for whatever reason? Is there a paucity of insight and wisdom in the current crop compared to the past? Easy to have rose-tinted view of course - the 70s in particular to those of us who lived through them was a truly exasperating and depressing decade Subsequently Monetarism brought huge inequalities and social division. Policy Advisors seem to hold more and more sway, without the accountability to the electorate that elected parliamentarians have.

With both main parties now offering only variations of the same-old same-old, seems inevitable to me that the increasing feeling will be "they do nothing for us, might as well give this lot a go" leading to at least a hung parliament and and quite possibly a Reform victory unless they implode due to internal conflicts or fail catastrophically in local government ( even that might not be enough ). We can see the absolute shitshow happening in the US caused by an absolute belief that everything has to be totally torn and shaken up in the name of making wherever great again.

Feels like we truly need a national coalition of the believably capable running the country regardless of party membership, but where are they to be found?

[Paddington Bear]

The vast, vast, vast majority of autistic people are perfectly capable of working and indeed are often phenomenally good at their jobs. We have a guy at work with quite severe asbergers who is the best around at his admin job. Just total nonsense for almost everyone using the condition to claim PIP.

[fishfoodie]

The vast, vast, vast majority of autistic people are perfectly capable of working and indeed are often phenomenally good at their jobs. We have a guy at work with quite severe asbergers who is the best around at his admin job. Just total nonsense for almost everyone using the condition to claim PIP.

If people with asbergers or autisim really couldn't work there wouldn't be a tech sector, we'd all be using abacuses, not computers ! ... & that's assuming whoever invented the abacus wasn't ND !!!

Seriously, I know I'm on the spectrum somewhere, just never diagnosed like the vast majority in mine & previous generations, but one of the qualities core to many jobs in the tech sector is, "Attention to detail", & that's something many people on the spectrum have in spades, which offsets the lack of some other qualities.

[Paddington Bear]

The vast, vast, vast majority of autistic people are perfectly capable of working and indeed are often phenomenally good at their jobs. We have a guy at work with quite severe asbergers who is the best around at his admin job. Just total nonsense for almost everyone using the condition to claim PIP.

If people with asbergers or autisim really couldn't work there wouldn't be a tech sector, we'd all be using abacuses, not computers ! ... & that's assuming whoever invented the abacus wasn't ND !!!

Seriously, I know I'm on the spectrum somewhere, just never diagnosed like the vast majority in mine & previous generations, but one of the qualities core to many jobs in the tech sector is, "Attention to detail", & that's something many people on the spectrum have in spades, which offsets the lack of some other qualities.

Exactly this. Not saying the diagnoses are fake - I’m saying it is a total nonsense that we’re pretending that autism is an excuse not to work

[shaggy]

The vast, vast, vast majority of autistic people are perfectly capable of working and indeed are often phenomenally good at their jobs. We have a guy at work with quite severe asbergers who is the best around at his admin job. Just total nonsense for almost everyone using the condition to claim PIP.

If people with asbergers or autisim really couldn't work there wouldn't be a tech sector, we'd all be using abacuses, not computers ! ... & that's assuming whoever invented the abacus wasn't ND !!!

Seriously, I know I'm on the spectrum somewhere, just never diagnosed like the vast majority in mine & previous generations, but one of the qualities core to many jobs in the tech sector is, "Attention to detail", & that's something many people on the spectrum have in spades, which offsets the lack of some other qualities.

Many on the spectrum? If your exposure to people on the spectrum is through a work environment, then maybe. If you look at the actual overall population that statement does not stand up.

[sockwithaticket]

Indeed, reads as survivorship bias. Sure, tech has provided a haven for some people on the spectrum, but autism doesn't inherently make anyone brilliant or give them an inclination or capability to work in the tech sector, same as everyone else. Some autistic fixations manifest in an interest in bird song or trains rather than computers. And that's without covering vast differences in functionality.

There probably are many who can work that don't, but I'd say some of that rests on employers. Much as with ageism, it's quite easy to discriminate without incriminating oneself and a lot of autistic people feel they are penalised either if they report their condition on an application or by interview processes that seem determined to weed out socially awkward people. That's one thing that can be said for the tech sector, it does seem to make greater allowance for the idiosyncrasies of those with asd.

[Sandstorm]

In 2023/2024 8.7 million in UK were receiving prescribed medication for anxiety. That's 1 in 6 people!

[SaintK]

In 2023/2024 8.7 million in UK were receiving prescribed medication for anxiety. That's 1 in 6 people!

How many before the Covid pandemic?

[Sandstorm]

In 2023/2024 8.7 million in UK were receiving prescribed medication for anxiety. That's 1 in 6 people!

How many before the Covid pandemic?

Hard to track the total increase in the last 5 years, but it seems the biggest increase (8%) has come in age group 18-35.

Probably because of this:
The NHS Long Term Plan – published in 2019 – focuses on improving mental health care in the UK. It aims to provide more funding for mental health services, especially for children and people with dementia.

[Tichtheid]

Rise in obesity is the one I have least sympathy with. There's often a mental heath component in becoming that fat, but not always. And the remedy is simple enough. Someone can't help being autistic or clinically depressed, they can control food portions and whether or not they exercise.

There are links with mental health and obesity, but I think the links between poverty and obesity are even stronger, plus junk food tends to be highly addictive - the fat, salt and sugar highly prevalent in junk food and so-called "ready meals" act pretty much the same way as narcotics in that they trigger dopamine release.

[SaintK]

In 2023/2024 8.7 million in UK were receiving prescribed medication for anxiety. That's 1 in 6 people!

How many before the Covid pandemic?

Hard to track the total increase in the last 5 years, but it seems the biggest increase (8%) has come in age group 18-35.

Probably because of this:
The NHS Long Term Plan – published in 2019 – focuses on improving mental health care in the UK. It aims to provide more funding for mental health services, especially for children and people with dementia.

[ASMO]

Rachel Reeves has lost all authority internally and externally - welfare Bill defeat, winter fuel defeat, policy on non doms being rejigged. Budget is out the window, Starmer is not a popular leader and unlike Blairs tenure the country is stagnant. A Blair like renaissance is not going to happen.

Oxbot is right: we're marching helplessly to a Reform Government in 2029. No way Starmer and Co have any talent to turn it around.

Yvette Cooper for me is a very solid politician and could make a very good PM

[Sandstorm]

Rise in obesity is the one I have least sympathy with. There's often a mental heath component in becoming that fat, but not always. And the remedy is simple enough. Someone can't help being autistic or clinically depressed, they can control food portions and whether or not they exercise.

There are links with mental health and obesity, but I think the links between poverty and obesity are even stronger, plus junk food tends to be highly addictive - the fat, salt and sugar highly prevalent in junk food and so-called "ready meals" act pretty much the same way as narcotics in that they trigger dopamine release.

TBF if you stop their PIP payments, they'll struggle to buy enough calories to maintain that 20 stone weight for long.

[Paddington Bear]

Ozempic costs around £150-200 a month on the open market, the NHS ought to be able to get a bulk deal to lower that. Either way it is significantly cheaper than signing people off work and providing them with an income not miles off the take home post tax of a lot of people in office roles


Yes yes there are some people it isn’t suitable for, but we to all intents and purposes have found a cure for obesity

[Sandstorm]

Ozempic costs around £150-200 a month on the open market, the NHS ought to be able to get a bulk deal to lower that. Either way it is significantly cheaper than signing people off work and providing them with an income not miles off the take home post tax of a lot of people in office roles


Yes yes there are some people it isn’t suitable for, but we to all intents and purposes have found a cure for obesity

It's not a cure. It helps with cravings for food (and alcohol in many people too), however it still requires the person to "do the work" to lose weight on their own. Something fatties don't like to do....

[sockwithaticket]

Rise in obesity is the one I have least sympathy with. There's often a mental heath component in becoming that fat, but not always. And the remedy is simple enough. Someone can't help being autistic or clinically depressed, they can control food portions and whether or not they exercise.

There are links with mental health and obesity, but I think the links between poverty and obesity are even stronger, plus junk food tends to be highly addictive - the fat, salt and sugar highly prevalent in junk food and so-called "ready meals" act pretty much the same way as narcotics in that they trigger dopamine release.

It is often linked to poverty, but I do consider that a bit overplayed because eating healthily can be considerably cheaper than most junk food. Especially ready meals. If someone needs to eat on a budget, healthy is the way to go.

I'm lucky enough not to need to restrict food spending too much, but I never got out of the habit of penny pinching there and a pretty large proportion of my meals are vegetarian pastas or stir fries. Some beans (frozen, tinned or dried), bag of rice, a few vegetables and a bottle of soy sauce will make you a lot of decent cheap meals that have minimal prep and cooking time. The whole thing can be done in 20 minutes once and then a few minutes of reheating subsequently if you cook a batch first time around, which isn't the 2 -5 of a microwave meal I'll grant, but it's hardly excessive.

The addictive side of the excessive sugar and salt in food is more sympathetic and definitely something that needs to be looked at more broadly, not just in relation to those obese enough to be on PIP. The nation continues to get fatter and fatter, sleep-walking into a public health crisis. Looking desperately for quick solutions such as surgeries or appetite suppressing drugs doesn't address the under-regulation of food companies and the normalisation of indulgence and sedentary behaviour.

[dpedin]

Ozempic costs around £150-200 a month on the open market, the NHS ought to be able to get a bulk deal to lower that. Either way it is significantly cheaper than signing people off work and providing them with an income not miles off the take home post tax of a lot of people in office roles


Yes yes there are some people it isn’t suitable for, but we to all intents and purposes have found a cure for obesity

It's not a cure. It helps with cravings for food (and alcohol in many people too), however it still requires the person to "do the work" to lose weight on their own. Something fatties don't like to do....

I remember when bariatric surgery was the solution and everyone wanted surgery as the magic cure. Same thing happened to try and control access to surgery ie diet & exercise first, psychiatric support, minimum BMI, etc. Bariatric and GI consultants were telling us this will end the obesity epidemic and save the state money in the long term ... it didnt! The fatties played the system got their surgery and after a wee while ended up back in hospital because they ate too much, drank too much, ate the wrong food, etc and ended up just as fat but with additional gastric issues. The same will happen with ozempic. Short term fix only.

Long term solution isnt drugs nor surgery but a change in lifestyle supported with a massive public health investment by the state. At the moment crap food is produced and marketed hard to kids, the poor, the chubby, etc by big business who don't give a shit about the health of their consumers. Alcohol and tobacco/vape producers are the same and the public are brainwashed into consuming what they produce until they are addicted. Meanwhile the tv is packed with advertising, particularly aimed at kids, of sugar rich, ultra processed, crap brown foods sold in fast food crap shops. Meanwhile the last Gov stripped and sold off, or underfunded councils so they sold off, lots and lots of community facilities like parks, football pitches, swimming pools, etc. It is easy to blame the poor or the vulnerable for being lazy, not knowing how to cook or just consuming shit but to be honest what feckin chance have they got against big business and a Gov who didnt give a shit?

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Ozempic costs around £150-200 a month on the open market, the NHS ought to be able to get a bulk deal to lower that. Either way it is significantly cheaper than signing people off work and providing them with an income not miles off the take home post tax of a lot of people in office roles


Yes yes there are some people it isn’t suitable for, but we to all intents and purposes have found a cure for obesity

It's not a cure. It helps with cravings for food (and alcohol in many people too), however it still requires the person to "do the work" to lose weight on their own. Something fatties don't like to do....

So, a cure then.