The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[KingBlairhorn]

Not sure on the thinking behind Berghan for Fagerson. Fagerson is both a better scrummager and better in the loose IMO. Perhaps it's a weight thing, not sure if Berghan is heavier?

[Biffer]

Fiji game is off

Organisers of the Autumn Nations Cup today announced the cancellation of the Scotland v Fiji fixture due to take place at BT Murrayfield on 28th November 2020.

The extent of infection in the Fiji camp, combined with a minimum 10-day isolation period, plus the obvious need for suitable preparation for any international test match meant that, whilst difficult, the decision was unavoidable.

The Tournament organisers remain in constant contact with the Fijian squad regarding their wellbeing and recovery which continues to be the number one priority.

The Fiji team and the organisers are hopeful that the fourth match on December 5th against the team that will finish in 4th place in Pool A will be able to take place, subject to checks on fitness levels once the players come out of isolation and following all appropriate protocols.

Be a shame for Georgia if they don't get their game v Fiji on a reasonably high profile platform.

That's assuming Georgia don't beat Wales of course....

If they don't, and they won't, there is a decent chance Italy will in their placing match (there are placing matches, yeah?).

Yep. Where is the 3v3 match?

[charltom]

Not sure on the thinking behind Berghan for Fagerson. Fagerson is both a better scrummager and better in the loose IMO. Perhaps it's a weight thing, not sure if Berghan is heavier?

Isn't that just a matter of keeping together the 2nd choice front row, who have trained together plenty in the squad?

Zander will probably be the first change if they are done separately.

[Yr Alban]

Not sure on the thinking behind Berghan for Fagerson. Fagerson is both a better scrummager and better in the loose IMO. Perhaps it's a weight thing, not sure if Berghan is heavier?

Isn't that just a matter of keeping together the 2nd choice front row, who have trained together plenty in the squad?

Zander will probably be the first change if they are done separately.

This seemed reasonable enough, but Kebble-Brown-Fagerson is an all-Glasgow combo and surely they will have trained together even more?

[Tichtheid]

On reflection, I think the selections in the front row are based on rotation where injury isn't a factor, Turner has earned another go, Bhatti has a lot to prove imo, he needs to be making a point about his club game time as much as anything. There's no point in exhausting WP at this point in his career.

[Northern Lights]

Didn’t realise that Graham was injured too?

Duncan Taylor on the bench has to be the big news in that squad!

That was supposition on my part, however there is a rumour floating about that Kinghorn is covering 10, if that is the case the selections start to fall in to place.

Also got Maitland back to cover FB if we have a raft of injuries which the French defence could definitely happen. Big units that are well drilled.

[Slick]

Saw some amazing stats on Hamish Watson this morning, number 1 back row in world rugby at the moment. 120 tackles without missing one in this run...

Imagine Aldritt at 8 in this team

[Yr Alban]

Just noticed Gary Graham grabbed two tries for Newcastle in their game v Bath. Shame he isn’t an 8!

[Tichtheid]

Just noticed Gary Graham grabbed two tries for Newcastle in their game v Bath. Shame he isn’t an 8!

Good player, but to make it to a Scotland starting line up he has to be better than, well I was going to list them, but on recent form is he better than Ally Miller? I doubt it, and Miller is well down the pecking order, he doesn't even have a full 15s contract at the moment.

[Caley_Red]

Looking at tomorrow's match, I'm really surprised at the predicted scoreline; I've read/ listened to three different sources which all basically say we're getting a shellacking tomorrow, France by 15 and France by 20 were two that I distinctly recall (and the 15 point one was an average of journalists' predictions). I think it'll be less than seven either way and I personally think we'll sneak it, am I wildly optimistic in this?

[Tichtheid]

Looking at tomorrow's match, I'm really surprised at the predicted scoreline; I've read/ listened to three different sources which all basically say we're getting a shellacking tomorrow, France by 15 and France by 20 were two that I distinctly recall (and the 15 point one was an average of journalists' predictions). I think it'll be less than seven either way and I personally think we'll sneak it, am I wildly optimistic in this?

We lack a "bad bastard" factor, we haven't really had it since the Calders, White etc.

Our pack is talented, but they are soft, Ritchie and Watson excluded, it's not about being dirty, it's about a refusal to take a step back, a refusal to lose.

[Caley_Red]

Looking at tomorrow's match, I'm really surprised at the predicted scoreline; I've read/ listened to three different sources which all basically say we're getting a shellacking tomorrow, France by 15 and France by 20 were two that I distinctly recall (and the 15 point one was an average of journalists' predictions). I think it'll be less than seven either way and I personally think we'll sneak it, am I wildly optimistic in this?

We lack a "bad bastard" factor, we haven't really had it since the Calders, White etc.

Our pack is talented, but they are soft, Ritchie and Watson excluded, it's not about being dirty, it's about a refusal to take a step back, a refusal to lose.

I think Ritchie is growing into that role nicely.

All said, I still fancy us, admittedly far less strongly without Russell and Hastings and a crowd but still by a few points.

[charltom]

So that explains it: rotation as if they were playing Fiji next Saturday!

[Biffer]

Looking at tomorrow's match, I'm really surprised at the predicted scoreline; I've read/ listened to three different sources which all basically say we're getting a shellacking tomorrow, France by 15 and France by 20 were two that I distinctly recall (and the 15 point one was an average of journalists' predictions). I think it'll be less than seven either way and I personally think we'll sneak it, am I wildly optimistic in this?

We lack a "bad bastard" factor, we haven't really had it since the Calders, White etc.

Our pack is talented, but they are soft, Ritchie and Watson excluded, it's not about being dirty, it's about a refusal to take a step back, a refusal to lose.

I think Ritchie is growing into that role nicely.

All said, I still fancy us, admittedly far less strongly without Russell and Hastings and a crowd but still by a few points.

Yeah, a fair number of other home nations fans have a growing dislike of Ritchie, which can only be a good thing. I particularly enjoy Irish fans greeting about him but holding up Peter O’Mahoney as an example of everything that’s good and right with the world.

[clydecloggie]

Cummings has a bit of the bastard about him as well - and not just because of the unfortunate surname.

Zander Fagerson of the Zandbags doesn't strike me as a wallflower type either.

I'm sure that if Scotland is genuinely now at a level where they worry the likes of Wales and Ireland, we'll start to hear the same type of moaning about them that we have done about the POMs of this world for all eternity.

[Slick]

Really in 2 minds about this game today, could go either way.

A win and we can be fairly confident we are a good team that no one will want to play. Lose and it will feel as if we are back outside the big boys

[Tichtheid]

Rod Stewart > Jacques Brel by 5

[ASMO]

If France gets off to a fast start this could get ugly for Scotland. i just dont think Scotland have enough tools in the box to win this, if France have an off day maybe, but that is a big "if"

[TheNatalShark]

Is there a match thread?

Thought it was supposed to start at 1500

[Tichtheid]

Is there a match thread?

Thought it was supposed to start at 1500

There is now

[Slick]

Not going to go too over the top on this. A bad day at the office for sure.

I’ve had it with Jonny though, just can’t watch him being so fucking passive over and over.

Lost count of the number of aimless kicks as well.

I also have to say, I like Barnes as a ref and a bloke but he was bloody woeful today

[Biffer]

Yeah, mixed views. In previous eras if we'd played badly we would have got hammered today. So there's a mark of how we've improved. However, that makes it even more frustrating as a decent performance would have got us over the line.

[Blackmac]

Not going to go too over the top on this. A bad day at the office for sure.

I’ve had it with Jonny though, just can’t watch him being so fucking passive over and over.

Lost count of the number of aimless kicks as well.

I also have to say, I like Barnes as a ref and a bloke but he was bloody woeful today

He actually just seems to ignore obvious infringements and make up others. The amount of times French players were held up in the tackle and given an age to get to ground was unreal, as was the inconcistency in pinging tackling players falling on the wrong side. Browns was the most obvious, he was actually completely away from the ruck and got pinged. As for the kick out of the ruck!!

I agree about Gray, another Ross Ford with a completely wasted physique.

[Northern Lights]

It was Cummings I was more pissed off with, hands like tits

[C T]

France are one of four teams that I think are on a different level to everyone else at the moment, well played to them they were the better team.

What's grating on me is that we lost the scrum battle and the breakdown, which before that match I would have been confident we'd give at least as good as we got in those areas. Scrum perhaps down to selection/injuries? Breakdown tactical or a bad day at the office?

I'm glad we've strengthened up our defence, It couldn't have gotten much worse. But does this new found ability to defend really have to be at the cost of all our creativity? I just can't believe we can't do more with the backs we have and still be difficult to score against.

Hoggy is trying too hard, needs to settle down. He ran up a few blind alleys today as well as the obvious blunder. He did do quite a lot of good today too in fairness.

Its nice to be competitive again, just a bit more flair please. Presume the scrum and breakdown will be better next time.

[I like neeps]

We're stuck with Gray as he's probably better than the other options. We certainly overhyped him.

I'm okay with Cummings' issues today. Still a class player.

[Yr Alban]

We're stuck with Gray as he's probably better than the other options. We certainly overhyped him.

I'm okay with Cummings' issues today. Still a class player.

Gray looked fantastic when he first broke through and we all thought he would turn into a colossus of a player. Unfortunately, that never really happened. I always get the impression with him that he’s just too nice - no dog about him whatsoever. As you say, though, there isn’t a better option presenting itself. I hoped that Exeter would harden him up a bit - perhaps it still will, early days.

We really struggle to create anything in attack without Russell and Hastings. We now know Hastings can deputise for Russell fairly effectively, but Weir can’t. I think that if Weir has a future for Scotland, it’s as a bench option to shut a game down.

[Yr Alban]

How do people think Fagerson went at 8, by the way? I wasn’t able to watch the game as I was at work (may watch it back later).

I have read reports in different places saying he was great, OK and useless. No two seem to agree.

[Northern Lights]

Not that long ago Dan Parks or Phil Godman were our 10 options (should have been Mossy or lengthened Toonie’s career but we had dicks for coaches). Anyway we are now bemoaning lack of creativity which sees us playing with our 3rd choice who is streets ahead of those two but still off the pace of a game like this. France are a top side, the best in the world will struggle to cut through them.

[Blackmac]

How do people think Fagerson went at 8, by the way? I wasn’t able to watch the game as I was at work (may watch it back later).

I have read reports in different places saying he was great, OK and useless. No two seem to agree.

He did okay but the back row in general got monstered at the breakdown. Not helped by Barnes giving the French free range, but we weren't at the races.

[Northern Lights]

How do people think Fagerson went at 8, by the way? I wasn’t able to watch the game as I was at work (may watch it back later).

I have read reports in different places saying he was great, OK and useless. No two seem to agree.

He did okay but the back row in general got monstered at the breakdown. Not helped by Barnes giving the French free range, but we weren't at the races.

That’s fair. Our back row are light in weight but quick and if refs allow the game to be played like it was today we will struggle. Fagerson did ok but it was a tough school today

[Slick]

France are one of four teams that I think are on a different level to everyone else at the moment, well played to them they were the better team.

What's grating on me is that we lost the scrum battle and the breakdown, which before that match I would have been confident we'd give at least as good as we got in those areas. Scrum perhaps down to selection/injuries? Breakdown tactical or a bad day at the office?

I'm glad we've strengthened up our defence, It couldn't have gotten much worse. But does this new found ability to defend really have to be at the cost of all our creativity? I just can't believe we can't do more with the backs we have and still be difficult to score against.

Hoggy is trying too hard, needs to settle down. He ran up a few blind alleys today as well as the obvious blunder. He did do quite a lot of good today too in fairness.

Its nice to be competitive again, just a bit more flair please. Presume the scrum and breakdown will be better next time.

I’d be interested to know who you think those 4 teams are. We were poor today but we still competed with France. I’d bet on us being competitive against England. I’d also love a shot at NZ at the moment. SA would blow us off the park.

Today was sobering, but I still think we are in a good place

[I like neeps]

France are one of four teams that I think are on a different level to everyone else at the moment, well played to them they were the better team.

What's grating on me is that we lost the scrum battle and the breakdown, which before that match I would have been confident we'd give at least as good as we got in those areas. Scrum perhaps down to selection/injuries? Breakdown tactical or a bad day at the office?

I'm glad we've strengthened up our defence, It couldn't have gotten much worse. But does this new found ability to defend really have to be at the cost of all our creativity? I just can't believe we can't do more with the backs we have and still be difficult to score against.

Hoggy is trying too hard, needs to settle down. He ran up a few blind alleys today as well as the obvious blunder. He did do quite a lot of good today too in fairness.

Its nice to be competitive again, just a bit more flair please. Presume the scrum and breakdown will be better next time.

I’d be interested to know who you think those 4 teams are. We were poor today but we still competed with France. I’d bet on us being competitive against England. I’d also love a shot at NZ at the moment. SA would blow us off the park.

Today was sobering, but I still think we are in a good place

Agree. France smashed up Wales, they smashed Ireland. We kept it close. The reality is France have sorted themselves out and are a very good team.

We played pretty well, the guys tired and France turned on the power with their monsterous pack. C'est la vie.

Harris played well again...

[Northern Lights]

France are one of four teams that I think are on a different level to everyone else at the moment, well played to them they were the better team.

What's grating on me is that we lost the scrum battle and the breakdown, which before that match I would have been confident we'd give at least as good as we got in those areas. Scrum perhaps down to selection/injuries? Breakdown tactical or a bad day at the office?

I'm glad we've strengthened up our defence, It couldn't have gotten much worse. But does this new found ability to defend really have to be at the cost of all our creativity? I just can't believe we can't do more with the backs we have and still be difficult to score against.

Hoggy is trying too hard, needs to settle down. He ran up a few blind alleys today as well as the obvious blunder. He did do quite a lot of good today too in fairness.

Its nice to be competitive again, just a bit more flair please. Presume the scrum and breakdown will be better next time.

I’d be interested to know who you think those 4 teams are. We were poor today but we still competed with France. I’d bet on us being competitive against England. I’d also love a shot at NZ at the moment. SA would blow us off the park.

Today was sobering, but I still think we are in a good place

Think you have it there, my top 4 at the moment would be France, England, SA and NZ in no particular order. The aussies clearly beat the AB's recently but they are our bunnies so they dont make the top 4

Ireland aren't the side they were either IMHO, not the fall that Wales are going through but a good bit off where they were and home advantage will be what seperates us from them in the respective fixtues at the moment.

[clydecloggie]

It's great that we have defensive stability now, even if it was by the skin of our teeth at times yesterday. But never once did I think we were going to score a try.

Underuse of McMerwe was criminal. Harris is a very solid defender but doesn't seem to have the speed, agility, creativity of running lines or a combination of those things that would allow him to actually break the line. He straightens the line when needed, but it never seems to lead to anything. So if Toonie wants to redress the balance between defence and attack, I'd look at a more elusive runner at 13 - Jones or Taylor.

Having said that, France are a wonderful team. Physically dominant but able to turn on the flair when they see a tiny possibility, like their first-phase try yesterday, A lesser defence would have been ripped to shreds by them.

And this does probably mean a 3rd place game against Ireland in Dublin - an excellent chance to notch up another away win.

[charltom]

I know he wasn't on for long, but I was really encouraged by how sharp Duncan Taylor appeared, and his distribution looked a cut above.

Having him back and on form (at last) would be a huge boon.

[Yr Alban]

Just noticed Gary Graham grabbed two tries for Newcastle in their game v Bath. Shame he isn’t an 8!

Good player, but to make it to a Scotland starting line up he has to be better than, well I was going to list them, but on recent form is he better than Ally Miller? I doubt it, and Miller is well down the pecking order, he doesn't even have a full 15s contract at the moment.

Just found out Graham was actually playing 8 in that game. All the caveats still apply, of course, but I thought it was interesting. He seems to exude the sort of nastiness that is mostly absent from our forwards (Ritchie aside).

[Begbie]

Just noticed Gary Graham grabbed two tries for Newcastle in their game v Bath. Shame he isn’t an 8!

Good player, but to make it to a Scotland starting line up he has to be better than, well I was going to list them, but on recent form is he better than Ally Miller? I doubt it, and Miller is well down the pecking order, he doesn't even have a full 15s contract at the moment.

Just found out Graham was actually playing 8 in that game. All the caveats still apply, of course, but I thought it was interesting. He seems to exude the sort of nastiness that is mostly absent from our forwards (Ritchie aside).

He was in the world cup squad before it was trimmed, so he's probably still on the radar. Good to have options.

[Begbie]

I thought we were pretty decent in the first half but let too many old habits creep back in, in the second half. Overall I'm upbeat about the result. We scrambled back and recovered well defensively a few times which wouldn't have happened previously, we'd have coughed up a couple more tries.

Fuck knows what the solution is in attack, it needs sorted though. I don't think it's as simple as missing Russell and Hastings, although it obviously doesn't help.

[Torquemada 1420]

From a outsider's view, odd to see comments on the match thread berating Townsend. He's led Sco to 5 successive wins which is obviously a rarity in the history books. Both Flake Russell and Hastings were out and any side, incl NZ, would struggle with losing both 1st choice FHs.