The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Biffer]

I thought we were pretty decent in the first half but let too many old habits creep back in, in the second half. Overall I'm upbeat about the result. We scrambled back and recovered well defensively a few times which wouldn't have happened previously, we'd have coughed up a couple more tries.

Fuck knows what the solution is in attack, it needs sorted though. I don't think it's as simple as missing Russell and Hastings, although it obviously doesn't help.

Even when we were playing the thrilling stuff, we only had 15-20 minutes of 'total rugby' in each match: 3 tries in 20 minutes Ireland 2017, 2 tries and a pen in 23 minutes Wales 2017, Two tries and a near miss in 15 minutes v New Zealand 2017, even when we gubbed Oz we put 5 tries over in 21 minutes, England 2018 three tries in 20 minutes, Twickenham 2019 4 tries in 13 minutes.

We need to understand when we can turn it on and when to do the hard headed obstinate stuff.

[dkm57]

For me the number of times Hogg and others ran into contact when a better option would have been to move the ball to the man outside was bloody frustrating. Other than that the French pack was pretty overpowering it'll be interesting to watch the French and English packs fight it out, my money would be on the French tight five. Thought Ritchie, Cummings and Kebble had good games. Wasn't a bad performance but the Sutherland, Russell, Hastings and Darcey Graham, hurt us.

Nice to see the DG, I don't understand why it isn't used more rather than endless bludgeoning in the 5 meter area which frequently leads to bugger all, take the 3 points let the opposition kick the ball back to you go back down there and score a try while they're focusing on closing down the kicker, give the buggers more to think about.

[Slick]

Good to see everyone having a bit of perspective on yesterday. Frustrating as it was, particularly some old idiocies coming back, we are not in a bad position.

I was really frustrated with the amount of aimless kicking - we have one of the best attacking back 3's around at the moment but just kept hoofing it back even as time was slipping away. I also just don't understand why we can't control the restarts without giving it straight back on conceding a penalty, surely that's something pretty easy to work on.

I do want Skinner starting and I would really like to see Huw Jones getting back in and around the team, but most teams seem to be taking this competition as a bit of an opportuntity to try a few things so it's the 6N when we need to be firing again.

I really want to beat Ireland though.

[I like neeps]

I thought we were pretty decent in the first half but let too many old habits creep back in, in the second half. Overall I'm upbeat about the result. We scrambled back and recovered well defensively a few times which wouldn't have happened previously, we'd have coughed up a couple more tries.

Fuck knows what the solution is in attack, it needs sorted though. I don't think it's as simple as missing Russell and Hastings, although it obviously doesn't help.

Even when we were playing the thrilling stuff, we only had 15-20 minutes of 'total rugby' in each match: 3 tries in 20 minutes Ireland 2017, 2 tries and a pen in 23 minutes Wales 2017, Two tries and a near miss in 15 minutes v New Zealand 2017, even when we gubbed Oz we put 5 tries over in 21 minutes, England 2018 three tries in 20 minutes, Twickenham 2019 4 tries in 13 minutes.

We need to understand when we can turn it on and when to do the hard headed obstinate stuff.

We tried the total rugby for 80 and it just came off for 20 minutes though. They didn't decide to turn it on, they tried it for 80 and it only came off sometimes. The gameplan is for 80 minutes of solid rugby and that's reflected in the team selection and last year of tactics.

[Biffer]

I thought we were pretty decent in the first half but let too many old habits creep back in, in the second half. Overall I'm upbeat about the result. We scrambled back and recovered well defensively a few times which wouldn't have happened previously, we'd have coughed up a couple more tries.

Fuck knows what the solution is in attack, it needs sorted though. I don't think it's as simple as missing Russell and Hastings, although it obviously doesn't help.

Even when we were playing the thrilling stuff, we only had 15-20 minutes of 'total rugby' in each match: 3 tries in 20 minutes Ireland 2017, 2 tries and a pen in 23 minutes Wales 2017, Two tries and a near miss in 15 minutes v New Zealand 2017, even when we gubbed Oz we put 5 tries over in 21 minutes, England 2018 three tries in 20 minutes, Twickenham 2019 4 tries in 13 minutes.

We need to understand when we can turn it on and when to do the hard headed obstinate stuff.

We tried the total rugby for 80 and it just came off for 20 minutes though. They didn't decide to turn it on, they tried it for 80 and it only came off sometimes.

Yeah, but that's the trick isn't it - recognising the times it'll work rather than just giving it continual wahoo.

[dpedin]

Good to see everyone having a bit of perspective on yesterday. Frustrating as it was, particularly some old idiocies coming back, we are not in a bad position.

I was really frustrated with the amount of aimless kicking - we have one of the best attacking back 3's around at the moment but just kept hoofing it back even as time was slipping away. I also just don't understand why we can't control the restarts without giving it straight back on conceding a penalty, surely that's something pretty easy to work on.

I do want Skinner starting and I would really like to see Huw Jones getting back in and around the team, but most teams seem to be taking this competition as a bit of an opportuntity to try a few things so it's the 6N when we need to be firing again.

I really want to beat Ireland though.

Problem against France was we weren't making inroads up front and they knew Weir wasn't a threat at 10 so just drifted their defence to cover our threats out wide. Our set piece was under pressure and when we did make territory we ended up losing the ball. We ended up not throwing a punch. With Russel or Hastings at 10 they would have kept the French defence worried and created more space out wide. Weir is a good 10 and behind a pack going forward would have controlled the game better but he is limited with ball in hand. Against the Irish we need better carriers to get on the front foot - Fagersons and Cummings were the only ones who got us beyond the gainline. We need better ball carrying against the Irish. Johnson doesn't look fully match fit at 12 but not sure what the options are? We need more moves around 10 and 12 to bring out ball carriers like VdM into the game and attack the inside defences rather than drifting wide all the time, we are a bit predictable at the moment with Weir at 10.

[Yr Alban]

From a outsider's view, odd to see comments on the match thread berating Townsend. He's led Sco to 5 successive wins which is obviously a rarity in the history books. Both Flake Russell and Hastings were out and any side, incl NZ, would struggle with losing both 1st choice FHs.

NZ won the RWC after losing their first three. But that was perhaps a special case.

[Torquemada 1420]

From a outsider's view, odd to see comments on the match thread berating Townsend. He's led Sco to 5 successive wins which is obviously a rarity in the history books. Both Flake Russell and Hastings were out and any side, incl NZ, would struggle with losing both 1st choice FHs.

NZ won the RWC after losing their first three. But that was perhaps a special case.

They had Joubert.

[C T]

France are one of four teams that I think are on a different level to everyone else at the moment, well played to them they were the better team.

What's grating on me is that we lost the scrum battle and the breakdown, which before that match I would have been confident we'd give at least as good as we got in those areas. Scrum perhaps down to selection/injuries? Breakdown tactical or a bad day at the office?

I'm glad we've strengthened up our defence, It couldn't have gotten much worse. But does this new found ability to defend really have to be at the cost of all our creativity? I just can't believe we can't do more with the backs we have and still be difficult to score against.

Hoggy is trying too hard, needs to settle down. He ran up a few blind alleys today as well as the obvious blunder. He did do quite a lot of good today too in fairness.

Its nice to be competitive again, just a bit more flair please. Presume the scrum and breakdown will be better next time.

I’d be interested to know who you think those 4 teams are. We were poor today but we still competed with France. I’d bet on us being competitive against England. I’d also love a shot at NZ at the moment. SA would blow us off the park.

Today was sobering, but I still think we are in a good place

Those four are exactly the four I had in mind. That said we did show we can be competitive against top sides yesterday which is much better than even just a year ago. I'd hope we could give any of those four a good game, but no shame in losing to them.

Saying that I'd expect us to beat anyone else is perhaps a little optimistic, but against anyone else feels really quite even (at worst) at the moment. I agree, I think we're in a good place.

I want to see us keep the defensive (and dare I say mental?) toughness we have found, but step up the attack. We've got the players.

[I like neeps]

When was the last time Hogg had a really electrifying attacking game for Scotland? NZ in 2017?

[westport]

I expected to be beaten by this French team, they are only going to get better and better towards the RWC.

Hogg has become too predictable, IMO. whilst it works for Chiefs where their pack is on top it doesn't work when Scotland are not on top.

Gray is doing my head in and would like to see Skinner given a go instead of him.

I was sceptical about Harris but he has won me over, a bit.

Whilst Weir wasn't going to set the heather on fire he was steady but too predicable.

I am not impressed with Fagerson at 8.

[robmatic]

Fagerson did well a few times in heavy traffic but you knew he was going to do nothing from the base of the scrum.

[Begbie]

I expected to be beaten by this French team, they are only going to get better and better towards the RWC.

Hogg has become too predictable, IMO. whilst it works for Chiefs where their pack is on top it doesn't work when Scotland are not on top.

Gray is doing my head in and would like to see Skinner given a go instead of him.

I was sceptical about Harris but he has won me over, a bit.

Whilst Weir wasn't going to set the heather on fire he was steady but too predicable.

I am not impressed with Fagerson at 8.

Glad I'm not the only one. I keep seeing people on social media going on about him as though he's the reincarnation of Derek White. I'm definitely not seeing what a lot of others are claiming to see in him.

[clydecloggie]

I expected to be beaten by this French team, they are only going to get better and better towards the RWC.

Hogg has become too predictable, IMO. whilst it works for Chiefs where their pack is on top it doesn't work when Scotland are not on top.

Gray is doing my head in and would like to see Skinner given a go instead of him.

I was sceptical about Harris but he has won me over, a bit.

Whilst Weir wasn't going to set the heather on fire he was steady but too predicable.

I am not impressed with Fagerson at 8.

Glad I'm not the only one. I keep seeing people on social media going on about him as though he's the reincarnation of Derek White. I'm definitely not seeing what a lot of others are claiming to see in him.

I thought Alldritt was kept fairly quiet throughout the game, but can't recall if there was a lot of 8-on-8 action that would give Fagerson that feather in his cap. I remember one decent heavy-traffic run from Fagerson, but nothing out of the ordinary for a Test 8, and it was only one.

He's very young, so can become smarter. He'll never be a Saffer-standard physical specimen though.

[Begbie]

I expected to be beaten by this French team, they are only going to get better and better towards the RWC.

Hogg has become too predictable, IMO. whilst it works for Chiefs where their pack is on top it doesn't work when Scotland are not on top.

Gray is doing my head in and would like to see Skinner given a go instead of him.

I was sceptical about Harris but he has won me over, a bit.

Whilst Weir wasn't going to set the heather on fire he was steady but too predicable.

I am not impressed with Fagerson at 8.

Glad I'm not the only one. I keep seeing people on social media going on about him as though he's the reincarnation of Derek White. I'm definitely not seeing what a lot of others are claiming to see in him.

I thought Alldritt was kept fairly quiet throughout the game, but can't recall if there was a lot of 8-on-8 action that would give Fagerson that feather in his cap. I remember one decent heavy-traffic run from Fagerson, but nothing out of the ordinary for a Test 8, and it was only one.

He's very young, so can become smarter. He'll never be a Saffer-standard physical specimen though.

Yeah, he had his moments on Sunday and I thought he stood out more than usual, but still not convinced. But like you say, he's young, so lets hope he kicks on.

[Yr Alban]

I’ve said it before, but if only we could drop Dave Denton into that position. Yes, his handling was always crap, but he was great at making hard yards. He’s 30 now and would probably be at his peak. Ritchie/Watson/Denton...

[clydecloggie]

Another poor game from Glasgow. One 'old-Glasgow' wonder try but even that included a really poor pass. Roll on 21/22 season, although that squad needs some serious investment to become competitive again.

[Tichtheid]

I’ve said it before, but if only we could drop Dave Denton into that position. Yes, his handling was always crap, but he was great at making hard yards. He’s 30 now and would probably be at his peak. Ritchie/Watson/Denton...

Apologies if I’ve mentioned this before, but if I were in a position to have a quiet word with Richard Cockerill I’d be saying, “get a few kilos on Luke Crosbie in the gym and play him at at 8”, he’s an abrasive laddie, the sort of hard bastard our pack needs.

He’s played 8 for U20s btw

[Big D]

Good to see everyone having a bit of perspective on yesterday. Frustrating as it was, particularly some old idiocies coming back, we are not in a bad position.

I think some are going to far the other way and brushing it off too easily. Our defensive play kept us competitive but attacking plan B was posted missing when plan A was getting nowhere.There is a middle ground that needs finding. We play three teams every season what have the ability or desire to try and monster us up front which we can deal with occasionally but still haven't really learned to combat it. That is an important step if we are to win away from home semi-regularly in the 6N.

We were second best up front, that will happen sometimes but the lack of a plan B is concerning. The quality of passing and lack of sharpness in the inside backs is something that should be criticised. Weir has been named 10 for three weeks so they have had time to come up with ideas to get the back 3 (especially DVdM) involved more. At times the Scotland game plan in the backs resembled Edinburgh's; hoping that one of the star men will do something great.

That being said a defensive error by Price (running the defensive line and then not stopping the play at source) and Kinghorn (not tracking his man properly) cost us the game.

When was the last time Hogg had a really electrifying attacking game for Scotland? NZ in 2017?

When was the last time we had a flowing attacking move that got Hogg at the outside of the opposition centres? I can't remember the last time a winger had a really dazzling game for us. Graham at Twickenham? Kinghorn scoring a hat trick was well finished but it wasn't a dazzling performance.

[Big D]

I’ve said it before, but if only we could drop Dave Denton into that position. Yes, his handling was always crap, but he was great at making hard yards. He’s 30 now and would probably be at his peak. Ritchie/Watson/Denton...

Apologies if I’ve mentioned this before, but if I were in a position to have a quiet word with Richard Cockerill I’d be saying, “get a few kilos on Luke Crosbie in the gym and play him at at 8”, he’s an abrasive laddie, the sort of hard bastard our pack needs.

He’s played 8 for U20s btw

A bit of weight on and I think he could be a bastard of a 6.

[Biffer]

I’ve said it before, but if only we could drop Dave Denton into that position. Yes, his handling was always crap, but he was great at making hard yards. He’s 30 now and would probably be at his peak. Ritchie/Watson/Denton...

Apologies if I’ve mentioned this before, but if I were in a position to have a quiet word with Richard Cockerill I’d be saying, “get a few kilos on Luke Crosbie in the gym and play him at at 8”, he’s an abrasive laddie, the sort of hard bastard our pack needs.

He’s played 8 for U20s btw

Don't think he's ever played there professionally. I just don't see him as an 8.

[Slick]

Good to see everyone having a bit of perspective on yesterday. Frustrating as it was, particularly some old idiocies coming back, we are not in a bad position.

I think some are going to far the other way and brushing it off too easily. Our defensive play kept us competitive but attacking plan B was posted missing when plan A was getting nowhere.There is a middle ground that needs finding. We play three teams every season what have the ability or desire to try and monster us up front which we can deal with occasionally but still haven't really learned to combat it. That is an important step if we are to win away from home semi-regularly in the 6N.

We were second best up front, that will happen sometimes but the lack of a plan B is concerning. The quality of passing and lack of sharpness in the inside backs is something that should be criticised. Weir has been named 10 for three weeks so they have had time to come up with ideas to get the back 3 (especially DVdM) involved more. At times the Scotland game plan in the backs resembled Edinburgh's; hoping that one of the star men will do something great.

That being said a defensive error by Price (running the defensive line and then not stopping the play at source) and Kinghorn (not tracking his man properly) cost us the game.

When was the last time Hogg had a really electrifying attacking game for Scotland? NZ in 2017?

When was the last time we had a flowing attacking move that got Hogg at the outside of the opposition centres? I can't remember the last time a winger had a really dazzling game for us. Graham at Twickenham? Kinghorn scoring a hat trick was well finished but it wasn't a dazzling performance.

That's a good post. It was certainly criminal that VdM wasn't getting more ball, he probably touched it 3 times and knocked over defenders and made ground every time.

I've heard a few say that Toony should take the captaincy away from Hogg so he can concentrate on his own game. I'm not so sure, he is hugely passionate about having it and I'm not convinced that's what's stopping him.

[Tichtheid]

I’ve said it before, but if only we could drop Dave Denton into that position. Yes, his handling was always crap, but he was great at making hard yards. He’s 30 now and would probably be at his peak. Ritchie/Watson/Denton...

Apologies if I’ve mentioned this before, but if I were in a position to have a quiet word with Richard Cockerill I’d be saying, “get a few kilos on Luke Crosbie in the gym and play him at at 8”, he’s an abrasive laddie, the sort of hard bastard our pack needs.

He’s played 8 for U20s btw

Don't think he's ever played there professionally. I just don't see him as an 8.

Jumps in the lineout, good hands, carries very effectively, very quick over the ground, tackles like a beast, very good over the ball, the only thing you'd need to add is control at the base at the scrum* for a very effective 8.

* and that pretty much equates to keeping the ball under your instep until the SH picks it up, maybe shuffling the ball over from left to right foot.

[Biffer]

Apologies if I’ve mentioned this before, but if I were in a position to have a quiet word with Richard Cockerill I’d be saying, “get a few kilos on Luke Crosbie in the gym and play him at at 8”, he’s an abrasive laddie, the sort of hard bastard our pack needs.

He’s played 8 for U20s btw

Don't think he's ever played there professionally. I just don't see him as an 8.

Jumps in the lineout, good hands, carries very effectively, very quick over the ground, tackles like a beast, very good over the ball, the only thing you'd need to add is control at the base at the scrum* for a very effective 8.

* and that pretty much equates to keeping the ball under your instep until the SH picks it up, maybe shuffling the ball over from left to right foot.

That, apart from the control at the base, equally describes a modern 6 - in fact more so because I don't generally expect your 8 to be the one getting over the ball in the ruck, that's a flanker's job. He just doesn't strike me as an 8. And I'm sick of Scottish rugby teams taking good players and trying to change them into something they're not because we're short in a particular position.

[clydecloggie]

Apologies if I’ve mentioned this before, but if I were in a position to have a quiet word with Richard Cockerill I’d be saying, “get a few kilos on Luke Crosbie in the gym and play him at at 8”, he’s an abrasive laddie, the sort of hard bastard our pack needs.

He’s played 8 for U20s btw

Don't think he's ever played there professionally. I just don't see him as an 8.

Jumps in the lineout, good hands, carries very effectively, very quick over the ground, tackles like a beast, very good over the ball, the only thing you'd need to add is control at the base at the scrum* for a very effective 8.

* and that pretty much equates to keeping the ball under your instep until the SH picks it up, maybe shuffling the ball over from left to right foot.

I think the Nr 8 attributes we are all jealous of when we see it in vintage Vermeulen, Vunipola, Faletau, Alldritt displays is the ability to carry in very heavy traffic, committing 2-3 defenders while making at least 5 metres and presenting effectively for quick ball - few other things in modern rugby have the same potential in open play.

All the other stuff we currently have in the team, but that one is the missing piece of the puzzle. and it coems from being an absolute physical beast first and foremost.

[Tichtheid]

Don't think he's ever played there professionally. I just don't see him as an 8.

Jumps in the lineout, good hands, carries very effectively, very quick over the ground, tackles like a beast, very good over the ball, the only thing you'd need to add is control at the base at the scrum* for a very effective 8.

* and that pretty much equates to keeping the ball under your instep until the SH picks it up, maybe shuffling the ball over from left to right foot.

I think the Nr 8 attributes we are all jealous of when we see it in vintage Vermeulen, Vunipola, Faletau, Alldritt displays is the ability to carry in very heavy traffic, committing 2-3 defenders while making at least 5 metres and presenting effectively for quick ball - few other things in modern rugby have the same potential in open play.

All the other stuff we currently have in the team, but that one is the missing piece of the puzzle. and it coems from being an absolute physical beast first and foremost.

Crosbie has the frame to put on 4-6kg, which puts him at the same height and weight as Sergio Parrise, and I feel that Crosbie can do that heavy traffic carrying anyway.

No one ever thought Kieran Reid was under-powered, although it helps if you have the likes of Retalick and Kaino in the same side

[Tichtheid]

That, apart from the control at the base, equally describes a modern 6 - in fact more so because I don't generally expect your 8 to be the one getting over the ball in the ruck, that's a flanker's job. He just doesn't strike me as an 8. And I'm sick of Scottish rugby teams taking good players and trying to change them into something they're not because we're short in a particular position.

I don't think it's the same as trying to play Mossy all over the park, you can pretty much play a backrow in any of the three shirts and ask him to do the same job. Miller has had a couple of decent outings at 8, but I'd always really seen him as an openside.

We just don't have a Big Bill or a Vermeulen, so it's about the best use of our resources, and for me that is a starting line up pf Ritchie, Watson and Crosbie

edit, unless of course Bradbury regains his best form, but Crosbie seems to have consistency in his play.

[Tichtheid]

With all the caveats that come with a highlights reel, any concerns about Crosbie's ability to carry in heavy traffic, just watch the first couple of minutes, you don't have to watch the whole thing.

He's also getting bigger and stronger as he fills out

[Big D]

Good to see everyone having a bit of perspective on yesterday. Frustrating as it was, particularly some old idiocies coming back, we are not in a bad position.

I think some are going to far the other way and brushing it off too easily. Our defensive play kept us competitive but attacking plan B was posted missing when plan A was getting nowhere.There is a middle ground that needs finding. We play three teams every season what have the ability or desire to try and monster us up front which we can deal with occasionally but still haven't really learned to combat it. That is an important step if we are to win away from home semi-regularly in the 6N.

We were second best up front, that will happen sometimes but the lack of a plan B is concerning. The quality of passing and lack of sharpness in the inside backs is something that should be criticised. Weir has been named 10 for three weeks so they have had time to come up with ideas to get the back 3 (especially DVdM) involved more. At times the Scotland game plan in the backs resembled Edinburgh's; hoping that one of the star men will do something great.

That being said a defensive error by Price (running the defensive line and then not stopping the play at source) and Kinghorn (not tracking his man properly) cost us the game.

When was the last time Hogg had a really electrifying attacking game for Scotland? NZ in 2017?

When was the last time we had a flowing attacking move that got Hogg at the outside of the opposition centres? I can't remember the last time a winger had a really dazzling game for us. Graham at Twickenham? Kinghorn scoring a hat trick was well finished but it wasn't a dazzling performance.

That's a good post. It was certainly criminal that VdM wasn't getting more ball, he probably touched it 3 times and knocked over defenders and made ground every time.

I've heard a few say that Toony should take the captaincy away from Hogg so he can concentrate on his own game. I'm not so sure, he is hugely passionate about having it and I'm not convinced that's what's stopping him.

Edit - my post seems to have been lost.

In summary:
Hogg is fine. Noticeable that he was hitting the line more outside Jones.

Too many of our tries in the AIs have relied on forwards dominating mauls or rucks. We have seen how toothless we look when we can't get on top of a team up front. We haven't brought in any plays to get VdM or Hogg involved enough and the injuries at 10 aren't a good enough excuse. Weir has been starting 10 for 3 weeks now, that is enough time.

It is fair to criticise GT and MB for this but the defence is solid and I am sure the attacking play will begin to evolve.

[Big D]

Don't think he's ever played there professionally. I just don't see him as an 8.

Jumps in the lineout, good hands, carries very effectively, very quick over the ground, tackles like a beast, very good over the ball, the only thing you'd need to add is control at the base at the scrum* for a very effective 8.

* and that pretty much equates to keeping the ball under your instep until the SH picks it up, maybe shuffling the ball over from left to right foot.

I think we need to find a way to make Crosbie the best version of him that he can be. By playing him at 8 it brings things into his game that aren't his strengths. Having him stand deep waiting for kicks takes him out of the defensive line where he is effective.

He is 6ft 4 or 5 and will end up 17.5st (ish). He is niggly, ferocious and has a huge work rate. He is a 6 at the top level all day for me. If that means that he, Watson and Ritchie are in a competition for the two flanker spots then so be it.

For all his good stuff, Watson isn't as untouchable for me as he is others. His carrying is too upright and relies on being able to bounce people. That wont work reliably against big strong teams.

[Yr Alban]

Thing is, we have to play somebody at 8. And if we don’t have someone who is a natural fit for the position, then we have to figure out who the best compromise might be.

Thomson, Bradbury, Fagerson and du Preez have all had a go there without anyone particularly standing out. It may be that Crosbie is the closest thing to a good 8 that Scotland have available, and if that’s the case we should play him there, even if it isn’t his ideal position.

[walletoraccess]

How about Gary Graham - he is played for newcastle against bath as an 8
Although I only saw the highlights he went well

[Begbie]

How about Gary Graham - he is played for newcastle against bath as an 8
Although I only saw the highlights he went well

Is he seen as an 8 at Newcastle now? Or was he just covering for an injury?

[Big D]

Thing is, we have to play somebody at 8. And if we don’t have someone who is a natural fit for the position, then we have to figure out who the best compromise might be.

Thomson, Bradbury, Fagerson and du Preez have all had a go there without anyone particularly standing out. It may be that Crosbie is the closest thing to a good 8 that Scotland have available, and if that’s the case we should play him there, even if it isn’t his ideal position.

We should be playing our best players in their best positions. Crosbie has every aspect needed to be a top class flanker. It would be a disservice to him to weaken his game by playing him at 8.

We don't necessarily need an 8 to stand out so long as they gel with the flankers and provide a good balance to those on the flanks. Watson really doesn't link play like a traditional seven would so we do need our 8 to have good hands.

I wouldn't be too surprised if from next Autumn our flankers are Ritchie and Crosbie.

[KingBlairhorn]

Thing is, we have to play somebody at 8. And if we don’t have someone who is a natural fit for the position, then we have to figure out who the best compromise might be.

Thomson, Bradbury, Fagerson and du Preez have all had a go there without anyone particularly standing out. It may be that Crosbie is the closest thing to a good 8 that Scotland have available, and if that’s the case we should play him there, even if it isn’t his ideal position.

We should be playing our best players in their best positions. Crosbie has every aspect needed to be a top class flanker. It would be a disservice to him to weaken his game by playing him at 8.

We don't necessarily need an 8 to stand out so long as they gel with the flankers and provide a good balance to those on the flanks. Watson really doesn't link play like a traditional seven would so we do need our 8 to have good hands.

I wouldn't be too surprised if from next Autumn our flankers are Ritchie and Crosbie.

We should have our best 15 players for each individual position on the pitch. If Crosbie isn’t our best 6 or 7 but is our best 8, play him at 8. If he’s our best 6, play him at 6 and play whoever is our best 8 at 8.

[Big D]

Thing is, we have to play somebody at 8. And if we don’t have someone who is a natural fit for the position, then we have to figure out who the best compromise might be.

Thomson, Bradbury, Fagerson and du Preez have all had a go there without anyone particularly standing out. It may be that Crosbie is the closest thing to a good 8 that Scotland have available, and if that’s the case we should play him there, even if it isn’t his ideal position.

We should be playing our best players in their best positions. Crosbie has every aspect needed to be a top class flanker. It would be a disservice to him to weaken his game by playing him at 8.

We don't necessarily need an 8 to stand out so long as they gel with the flankers and provide a good balance to those on the flanks. Watson really doesn't link play like a traditional seven would so we do need our 8 to have good hands.

I wouldn't be too surprised if from next Autumn our flankers are Ritchie and Crosbie.

We should have our best 15 players for each individual position on the pitch. If Crosbie isn’t our best 6 or 7 but is our best 8, play him at 8. If he’s our best 6, play him at 6 and play whoever is our best 8 at 8.

That part is clear, but there is zero evidence to suggest Crosbie is a pro club level 8.

By naming Crosbie at 8 you are negating Crosbie's best attributes. He is a ferocious defender, number 8s are not often in the defensive line as seen on Saturday when Fagerson was fielding deep a lot. He isn't the best passer of the ball and on occasion an 8 will need to be able to ping the ball in field.

He is a fabulously niggly, hard defender and playing him at 8 negates all of that. Never mind the fact he has never/very rarely played 8 in a professional and currently a sevens player is playing ahead of him at 8 (even if Miller has played well) which suggests Edinburgh and probably Scotland don't see him as an option there.

[Northern Lights]

We should be playing our best players in their best positions. Crosbie has every aspect needed to be a top class flanker. It would be a disservice to him to weaken his game by playing him at 8.

We don't necessarily need an 8 to stand out so long as they gel with the flankers and provide a good balance to those on the flanks. Watson really doesn't link play like a traditional seven would so we do need our 8 to have good hands.

I wouldn't be too surprised if from next Autumn our flankers are Ritchie and Crosbie.

We should have our best 15 players for each individual position on the pitch. If Crosbie isn’t our best 6 or 7 but is our best 8, play him at 8. If he’s our best 6, play him at 6 and play whoever is our best 8 at 8.

That part is clear, but there is zero evidence to suggest Crosbie is a pro club level 8.

By naming Crosbie at 8 you are negating Crosbie's best attributes. He is a ferocious defender, number 8s are not often in the defensive line as seen on Saturday when Fagerson was fielding deep a lot. He isn't the best passer of the ball and on occasion an 8 will need to be able to ping the ball in field.

He is a fabulously niggly, hard defender and playing him at 8 negates all of that. Never mind the fact he has never/very rarely played 8 in a professional and currently a sevens player is playing ahead of him at 8 (even if Miller has played well) which suggests Edinburgh and probably Scotland don't see him as an option there.

It's also not correct that players are interchangeable across the backrow as was suggested elsewhere, you have done a great job in highlighting why he is better suited to 6 than 8.

For me Fagerson is still young, he is only going to get better as he gets more experience at this level it is a significant step up from club rugby.

[FalconJock]

How about Gary Graham - he is played for newcastle against bath as an 8
Although I only saw the highlights he went well

Is he seen as an 8 at Newcastle now? Or was he just covering for an injury?

GG plays across the back row depending on others availability which is probably testament to a mix of lack of real depth at Falcons and his versatility, but I think is seen as the better alternative to Nagusa who is played predominately at 8.

[Caley_Red]

How about Gary Graham - he is played for newcastle against bath as an 8
Although I only saw the highlights he went well

Is he seen as an 8 at Newcastle now? Or was he just covering for an injury?

GG plays across the back row depending on others availability which is probably testament to a mix of lack of real depth at Falcons and his versatility, but I think is seen as the better alternative to Nagusa who is played predominately at 8.

Is my view that GG isn't all that good outdated now? Haven't seen him play in a year or so.

[Tichtheid]

We can’t be saying number 8s aren’t supposed to tackle are we? The old fashioned thinking about positions and very defined roles have been blown away, Brian O’Driscol showed that centres can jackal in a ruck as well as any ground hog “proper 7”, now everyone on the park is expected to do it when necessary- look at Sammy H-C

In recent years Scotland have had John Barclay, Kelly Brown and Ryan Wilson start at 6,7 or 8, Bradbury has played 6&8, as did Dents.

Ritchie and Watson start in our strongest team, the “problem” is that for Edinburgh there is Mata, Bradbury, Haining and Kunavula with experience at 8 and we have a conservative head coach, but I still think Edinburgh and Scotland are missing a trick by not employing Crosbie in that middle jersey - what specifically is lacking in his game that would prevent him gelling with Ritchie and Watson?

The latter two are nailed on starters, Crosbie is that ball carrier to compliment them, to me that is a very balanced back row, on tv at least he looks the quickest of the three.