The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

[Northern Lights]

It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Is that because of the 10, 12 & 13 potential combo because i agree

[clydecloggie]

It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Are 11 of that list not parent/ grandparent rule though?

Where do we want to stop with this?

I don't mind the parent rule at all - surely if your mum or dad is from a country you're highly likely to have an affinity for that country that goes beyond 'mercenary' - in many countries, having a parent from that country would actually automatically qualify you for a passport. I am uncomfortable with players with no other links to Scotland (haven't been here, haven't played here) being parachuted into the squad on the grandparent rule, who will most likely just have had that one funny gran who couldn't shut up about how much better Stornoway black is than the shite they serve in Rankpuddingstan.

I generally don't like the residency rule, but it's not completely black and white. I have no issue with Sam Johnson playing for Scotland - he never came over as a 'project player' and went native at Usain Bolt speed. Nel is that way as well probably. In contrast, Josh Strauss, lacerated kidney and all, was probably a mistake in hindsight. Tim Visser - the weirdest ancestry of all Scots but as he has now returned to live in Edinburgh after retiring as a rugby player, I can't see any fault with him previously playing for Scotland (apart from being a grade A wanker). Who knows how McMerwe and McWalt will end up? So while generally disliking it, the rules are as they are, bigger and better-resourced countries are doing it, and I'll reserve judgement on how much of a mercenary these players turned out to be until they've finished playing for Scotland or even well after that.

[robmatic]

It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

It is a lot but it I think we are also seeing more players involved with Scotland in the current era and the team is less fixed than perhaps it used to be, especially with Townsend doing the selecting.

Jaco qualifying on residency generated some grumbling but he's come into the squad as the third or fourth choice fly half. Imagine if he'd been around 10 years ago when the options were Dan Parks (also not from the Scottish system) and Phil Godman.

[I like neeps]

Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

[dpedin]

Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

Cant disagree, the world is a small place now and trying to define nationality is getting harder than it was way back when. My son is Scottish born and bred but lives in London. If and when he has kids, if they are born in London, they will qualify for England and Scotland. Would I be happy if they played for England at rugby? No! Would I respect their decision? Of course I would.

Perhaps Brexit and the changes to migration rules and the limits to free movement of sportsmen and sportswomen is going to change a lot of this?

[I like neeps]

Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

Cant disagree, the world is a small place now and trying to define nationality is getting harder than it was way back when. My son is Scottish born and bred but lives in London. If and when he has kids, if they are born in London, they will qualify for England and Scotland. Would I be happy if they played for England at rugby? No! Would I respect their decision? Of course I would.

Perhaps Brexit and the changes to migration rules and the limits to free movement of sportsmen and sportswomen is going to change a lot of this?

You have to get the hypothetical grandkids to BTM asap!

I think it'll make it harder to get visas for some but sports is such a huge industry the govt will surely create creative solutions.

I agree it's a tricky subject. It was pretty flagrant the SRU signing Nel and Strauss with the intention of playing for Scotland when in their prime. But in my opinion Nel is Scottish nowadays. I'm in no place to tell anyone who is and isn't Scottish since I decided to be Scottish myself!

[Biffer]

Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

Cant disagree, the world is a small place now and trying to define nationality is getting harder than it was way back when. My son is Scottish born and bred but lives in London. If and when he has kids, if they are born in London, they will qualify for England and Scotland. Would I be happy if they played for England at rugby? No! Would I respect their decision? Of course I would.

Perhaps Brexit and the changes to migration rules and the limits to free movement of sportsmen and sportswomen is going to change a lot of this?

You have to get the hypothetical grandkids to BTM asap!

I think it'll make it harder to get visas for some but sports is such a huge industry the govt will surely create creative solutions.

I agree it's a tricky subject. It was pretty flagrant the SRU signing Nel and Strauss with the intention of playing for Scotland when in their prime. But in my opinion Nel is Scottish nowadays. I'm in no place to tell anyone who is and isn't Scottish since I decided to be Scottish myself!

There is this thing with a lot of white south africans who feel, rightly or wrongly, that they won't get a fair crack of the whip in south africa and are looking for somewhere new to call home.

Where players call Scotland home, I'm good with it. Where it's mercenary I'm not. But I don't think we've really had anyone of the mercenary nature.

[Biffer]

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Are 11 of that list not parent/ grandparent rule though?

Where do we want to stop with this?

I don't mind the parent rule at all - surely if your mum or dad is from a country you're highly likely to have an affinity for that country that goes beyond 'mercenary' - in many countries, having a parent from that country would actually automatically qualify you for a passport. I am uncomfortable with players with no other links to Scotland (haven't been here, haven't played here) being parachuted into the squad on the grandparent rule, who will most likely just have had that one funny gran who couldn't shut up about how much better Stornoway black is than the shite they serve in Rankpuddingstan.

I generally don't like the residency rule, but it's not completely black and white. I have no issue with Sam Johnson playing for Scotland - he never came over as a 'project player' and went native at Usain Bolt speed. Nel is that way as well probably. In contrast, Josh Strauss, lacerated kidney and all, was probably a mistake in hindsight. Tim Visser - the weirdest ancestry of all Scots but as he has now returned to live in Edinburgh after retiring as a rugby player, I can't see any fault with him previously playing for Scotland (apart from being a grade A wanker). Who knows how McMerwe and McWalt will end up? So while generally disliking it, the rules are as they are, bigger and better-resourced countries are doing it, and I'll reserve judgement on how much of a mercenary these players turned out to be until they've finished playing for Scotland or even well after that.

I'm fine with grandparent rule tbh, but I want people to make a commitment and come here. so I'm not at home with Thomson.

The current controversy over residency will fade away in a couple of years when it goes to five year rules. The next big one will be recruiting 14 and 15 year olds from the PIs to youth programmes in France (and probably England before too long).

[westport]

The Scottish government has announced a funding package of £55m to help spectator sports through the coronavirus pandemic.

First minister Nicola Sturgeon says £30m will be made available to Scottish football and £20m to rugby union.

Of the £30m for football, £20m will in the form of loans to Scottish Premiership clubs and the remaining £10m in grants for lower league clubs.

Further discussions on the distribution will take place later.

The £20m for rugby will be £5m in loans and £15m in grants, while ice rinks and horse racing will get £2m each.

The remaining £1m will be divided among basketball, motorsports, netball and other sports.

[Yr Alban]

This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

[Biffer]

This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

Actually, that doesn’t work either. In fact it’s worse. The number of years residency thing was brought in after oil rich Middle Eastern countries started throwing citizenships at Brazilian footballers and Kenyan runners after a few months living there, so they’d compete for Qatar, uae, etc.

[Caley_Red]

To be fair, he's saying that Scotland have to have a good 6 Nations because of Warren Gatland's biases, not because it's the way he thinks the Lions squad should be chosen.

On the 6N front, we are probably looking at 3 wins as keeping head above water (home games against Wales and Italy are absolute must-wins and we should be looking to beat Ireland at home), difficult to see wins in the away games.

I've been very disappointed by the last two games and believe they've erased any credit in the bank from last 6N. I'm also still convinced that GT is not the person to lead Scotland, can anyone honestly see where the necessary improvement is going to come from to properly challenge for 6N titles?

I get a bit frustrated by the Toony out talk. There have been a couple of disappointing performances in the last few weeks but by most measures the last few years have been a pretty successful period in our rugby history. I think some people have pretty unrealistic expectations of where we should be.

I also think that generally the rugby has been exciting to watch and has given Scottish rugby a fair bit of respect.

I also struggle to criticise a coach that tries a style that was pretty successful for a while, accepted it wasn’t working later, and then completely changed the style. He is still working towards where he wants it to be. I think that has been very impressive, frankly.

I just don’t see how any coach is going to come in and make our results better with the resources we have.

Was disappointed to see his contract extended until 2023 prior to this 6N, thought it might be prudent to wait and see how we go in that first.

We have the best set of players we've had in the professional era, we have the best 10 and 15 in the NH, we have one of the best front rows in WR etc etc and we're churning out results that are little better than the Andy Robinson era: we were eliminated in the WC group stages, we are in pot three for the next WC, we have never finished above 4th in the 6N on anything but points diff. I think things could be better with another coach personally.

[Slick]

Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

[Caley_Red]

Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

Contextualized by the best crop of players (by far)

[Slick]

Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

Contextualized by the best crop otf players (by far)

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

[Caley_Red]

Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

Contextualized by the best crop otf players (by far)

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

[Yr Alban]

This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

Actually, that doesn’t work either. In fact it’s worse. The number of years residency thing was brought in after oil rich Middle Eastern countries started throwing citizenships at Brazilian footballers and Kenyan runners after a few months living there, so they’d compete for Qatar, uae, etc.

Thought the FIFA rule was still 'you need a passport', and that it was only the UK that had weird rules due to the lack of differential nationality?

Maybe I'm out of date though?

[Yr Alban]

Contextualized by the best crop otf players (by far)

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

[Caley_Red]

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

[robmatic]

Some rumours on the Glasgow forum that Adam Hastings is off to Gloucester at the end of the season.

I'm not too bothered about players moving on as some turnover is essential with only 2 pro teams, but Glasgow's recruitment hasn't been that great the last couple of seasons.

[Biffer]

This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

Actually, that doesn’t work either. In fact it’s worse. The number of years residency thing was brought in after oil rich Middle Eastern countries started throwing citizenships at Brazilian footballers and Kenyan runners after a few months living there, so they’d compete for Qatar, uae, etc.

Thought the FIFA rule was still 'you need a passport', and that it was only the UK that had weird rules due to the lack of differential nationality?

Maybe I'm out of date though?

Five years now I think

[Begbie]

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

Just gave it a listen, it's interesting. It's concerning that he says our defence is really easy to work out and "retro" (probably a polite way of saying outdated) I guess we'll see soon enough if Tandy can change it up and make it less predictable.

Is what he says about our schools game accurate?

[Caley_Red]

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

Just gave it a listen, it's interesting. It's concerning that he says our defence is really easy to work out and "retro" (probably a polite way of saying outdated) I guess we'll see soon enough if Tandy can change it up and make it less predictable.

Is what he says about our schools game accurate?

Can't say for sure, I went to a public school not that long ago but the cream of private schools were still decent (globally competitive) but it seems to be the connetion to academies he's referring to? Perhaps a comment regarding our amateur system contrasting their's?

[I like neeps]

I was being schooled in Dundee 20 years ago and can safely say outside of Dundee High School the private one there's no schools rugby to speak of up there. And very little club rugby. If you look at the change in composition of age grade the biggest changes is the borders are becoming less and less representated.

Schools rugby in Ireland is starting to resemble NZ. They have games on Sky Sports or their equivalent to large crowds.

[westport]

Edinburgh Rugby team to face La Rochelle at BT Murrayfield
Heineken Champions Cup (Saturday 12 December, kick-off 8pm) – live on BT Sport

15. Blair Kinghorn (91)
14. Darcy Graham (35)
13. Mark Bennett (43)
12. Chris Dean (98)
11. Duhan van der Merwe (61)
10. Jaco van der Walt (62)
9. Henry Pyrgos (40) CC
1. Pierre Schoeman (51)
2. Stuart McInally (147) CC
3. WP Nel (146)
4. Ben Toolis (123)
5. Andrew Davidson (9)
6. Jamie Ritchie (71)
7. Hamish Watson (113)
8. Viliame Mata (76)

Substitutes:
16. Mike Willemse (28)
17. Rory Sutherland (86)
18. Simon Berghan (84)
19. Andries Ferreira (4)
20. Magnus Bradbury (84)
21. Nic Groom (17)
22. Nathan Chamberlain (6)
23. James Johnstone (56)

Unavailable due to injury (14): Lewis Carmichael, Luke Crosbie, Dan Gamble, Grant Gilchrist, Matt Gordon, Nick Haining, Damien Hoyland, Charlie Jupp, Mesu Kunavula, Fraser McKenzie, Murray McCallum, Dan Nutton, Charlie Savala, George Taylor.

[Caley_Red]

Looking tight at Murrayfield. .

[dkm57]

Embra have a couple of issues and they're both at 9

[KingBlairhorn]

Rumours this morning that Duhan is being targeted by some English clubs. Whilst it is probably nonsense paper talk, I think Cockerill needs to have a bit of a think about how he has I’m his team playing. Apparently Duhan touched the ball 4 times last night, if I was him I would be thinking that is pretty shite. I like that Edinburgh have a bit of pragmatism about them now, but the endless and pointless box kicking has gone too far IMO. Who is the backs coach, is it still Hodge? What is he doing with what is one of the most talented running back lines Edinburgh has ever had?

[Blackmac]

It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

[Blackmac]

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

Just gave it a listen, it's interesting. It's concerning that he says our defence is really easy to work out and "retro" (probably a polite way of saying outdated) I guess we'll see soon enough if Tandy can change it up and make it less predictable.

Is what he says about our schools game accurate?

If he said it is non existent and confined to half a dozen private schools, then yes.

[Blackmac]

The biggest problem Scotland has is that the current generation of players are soft. Simple as that. You can train them all you want but they are simply mentally and physically less aggressive than their counterparts in other countries. Guys like Ritchie cutting about pretending to have that trait are easy to pick out.

[Jock42]

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

[KingBlairhorn]

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

Confirmed?

[KingBlairhorn]

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

Confirmed?

Just seen the source is the Rugby Paper. Whilst it might turn out to be true, the Rugby Paper is about as reliable a source as Wales Online. Absolute junk.

[charltom]

Tomorrow is the day that we find out we have drawn New Zealand and France (at home) for 2023 rather than Wales and Japan (away from home).

Oh joy.

[KingBlairhorn]

Glasgow already two tries down to Exeter. I am so bored with Scottish rugby being unable to deal with powerful sides. I understand that Exeter are the European Champions, but it really is relentlessly dispiriting.

Strength and fitness are literally the only parts of the game that more or less any player can have. There is no real talent needed, just hard work.

[KingBlairhorn]

Incidentally, something has to be done about the maul. It seems standard practice now is for the maul to splinter and break, simply moving round the defenders rather than through them. It must be obstruction with those players no longer connected to the maul taking deliberate contact with defenders to break the defence.

A defender cannot come in from any direction, so the maul should have to move through a ‘gate’ also. Want to use it, you have to go straight down the park with it.

[Yr Alban]

So Edinburgh were beaten at home, and then Glasgow were thrashed.

Both sides full of Scotland internationalists (though to be fair Exeter had a few too).

Really not sure what we’re supposed to think about this.

[I like neeps]

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

Confirmed?

Just seen the source is the Rugby Paper. Whilst it might turn out to be true, the Rugby Paper is about as reliable a source as Wales Online. Absolute junk.

Duhan signed a new deal in January. Doubt it was just a one year extension as this was pre covid and Edinburgh flying but the SRU have stopped disclosing contract lengths for some reason. Which isn't really good enough.