The Brexit Thread

[Camroc2]

Bimbo free, for the moment...............................

[Mitty]

Now that Sterling is classified as an emerging currency (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/mar ... -1.4291672 there is an opportunity to pick up cheap London property. Might not be to everyones taste but a little dabble in tinpot property markets is always a giggle.

[Longshanks]

There still is no breakthrough
Both sides not giving an inch (or 2.54cm)
It does seem they are just going through the motions and have accepted a deal is virtually impossible.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53266902

[fishfoodie]

There still is no breakthrough
Both sides not giving an inch (or 2.54cm)
It does seem they are just going through the motions and have accepted a deal is virtually impossible.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53266902

It was always the most likely outcome; & the Tory fanatics refusal to consider an extension to negotiations; just made it inevitable.

[iarmhí]

Oh you didn't Cammy

[Longshanks]

It was always the most likely outcome; & the Tory fanatics refusal to consider an extension to negotiations; just made it inevitable.

I'm all for kicking the can down the road, but how would an extension achieve a deal with such entrenched positions?

[iarmhí]

It will be an extension of sorts.

This deal by the end of 2020 is a kick the can deal

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Whether we get a deal or not it's not the end of the story, the bigger thing is it weakens the strength of UK negotiating position if we're waiting until we're outside to deal. It's just very strange what we've done so far, and so far as we can tell there's still no policy agenda within UK government about how this gets changed, or if there is one they're choosing not to tell anyone and that's also strange.

[lilyw]

It was always the most likely outcome; & the Tory fanatics refusal to consider an extension to negotiations; just made it inevitable.

I'm all for kicking the can down the road, but how would an extension achieve a deal with such entrenched positions?

Since the positions are entrenched an extension would simply allow both sides put in the admin & physical infrastructure needed to make no-deal actually work without everything grinding to a halt. Nobody does petty bureaucracy & jobsworth like the Dutch. I can't wait to see the mess at Rotterdam unless every i is dotted & t crossed in every little sub-clause of every regulation on No-deal day.

[Longshanks]

Since the positions are entrenched an extension would simply allow both sides put in the admin & physical infrastructure needed to make no-deal actually work without everything grinding to a halt. Nobody does petty bureaucracy & jobsworth like the Dutch. I can't wait to see the mess at Rotterdam unless every i is dotted & t crossed in every little sub-clause of every regulation on No-deal day.

That of course is far too sensible. "Let's threaten no deal, that'll teach 'em"

[fishfoodie]

It was always the most likely outcome; & the Tory fanatics refusal to consider an extension to negotiations; just made it inevitable.

I'm all for kicking the can down the road, but how would an extension achieve a deal with such entrenched positions?

Since the positions are entrenched an extension would simply allow both sides put in the admin & physical infrastructure needed to make no-deal actually work without everything grinding to a halt. Nobody does petty bureaucracy & jobsworth like the Dutch. I can't wait to see the mess at Rotterdam unless every i is dotted & t crossed in every little sub-clause of every regulation on No-deal day.

Trade deals take time.If the UK Government legitimately wants a Trade Deal, then it understands this.

Bizarrely it seems the Brextreemists decided the best idea was to play a game of chicken with the EU; presumably this is based on the fatuous observation that the EU only makes deals at the last moment.

Watching the UK Politicians/Negotiators try to outwit the much more experienced EU ones, always reminds me of the Coyote trying to outwit the Roadrunner.

[Longshanks]

I'm all for kicking the can down the road, but how would an extension achieve a deal with such entrenched positions?

Since the positions are entrenched an extension would simply allow both sides put in the admin & physical infrastructure needed to make no-deal actually work without everything grinding to a halt. Nobody does petty bureaucracy & jobsworth like the Dutch. I can't wait to see the mess at Rotterdam unless every i is dotted & t crossed in every little sub-clause of every regulation on No-deal day.

Trade deals take time.If the UK Government legitimately wants a Trade Deal, then it understands this.

Bizarrely it seems the Brextreemists decided the best idea was to play a game of chicken with the EU; presumably this is based on the fatuous observation that the EU only makes deals at the last moment.

Watching the UK Politicians/Negotiators try to outwit the much more experienced EU ones, always reminds me of the Coyote trying to outwit the Roadrunner.

With respect, from what I understand a trade deal with the EU requires the UK to stick closely to EU rules regarding the level playing field, and access to UK fishing waters. Those are 2 unchangeable things, whatever the timescale.

[ASMO]

The whole issue around fishing rights is beyond me, the UK dont eat that much fish compared to the rest of the EU, the EU are the biggest customer so if no deal goes through we will have all that fish, a small domestic market and no buyers from the EU....real forward thinking by the bouffant buffoon.

[fishfoodie]

Since the positions are entrenched an extension would simply allow both sides put in the admin & physical infrastructure needed to make no-deal actually work without everything grinding to a halt. Nobody does petty bureaucracy & jobsworth like the Dutch. I can't wait to see the mess at Rotterdam unless every i is dotted & t crossed in every little sub-clause of every regulation on No-deal day.

Trade deals take time.If the UK Government legitimately wants a Trade Deal, then it understands this.

Bizarrely it seems the Brextreemists decided the best idea was to play a game of chicken with the EU; presumably this is based on the fatuous observation that the EU only makes deals at the last moment.

Watching the UK Politicians/Negotiators try to outwit the much more experienced EU ones, always reminds me of the Coyote trying to outwit the Roadrunner.

With respect, from what I understand a trade deal with the EU requires the UK to stick closely to EU rules regarding the level playing field, and access to UK fishing waters. Those are 2 unchangeable things, whatever the timescale.

The UK knew the level playing field was a red line to any deal; May even had provision for it in her version of the Withdrawal Agreement. The fish stuff is negotiable; & I think is just a way of the EU offering the UK an way of presenting a deal as a win.

[Longshanks]

The UK knew the level playing field was a red line to any deal; May even had provision for it in her version of the Withdrawal Agreement. The fish stuff is negotiable; & I think is just a way of the EU offering the UK an way of presenting a deal as a win.

But even if the fishing can be sorted (and as ASMO says it has very little impact on the UK economy, it's just for mad Express readers), how would an extension resolve the level playing field rules?
The UK side have said no chance.

[fishfoodie]

The UK knew the level playing field was a red line to any deal; May even had provision for it in her version of the Withdrawal Agreement. The fish stuff is negotiable; & I think is just a way of the EU offering the UK an way of presenting a deal as a win.

But even if the fishing can be sorted (and as ASMO says it has very little impact on the UK economy, it's just for mad Express readers), how would an extension resolve the level playing field rules?
The UK side have said no chance.

Leave supporting politicians started out telling the UK how they had no intention of leaving the Single market; the likes of Gove continues to tell everyone how the UK has no intention of indulging in a race to the bottom; we regularly heard how this was going to be an easy deal, because the UK was already so closely aligned with the EU.

The 'Leave' position has changed markedly, from before the vote, between the vote & initial legislation, & three different PMs. Bottom line is an extension allows time for the position to evolve further. It's less than a year ago we heard how no UK PM could agree to a border down the Irish sea !

[Ymx]

We have the chance to start again. Yet we create a new Brexit thread

[tabascoboy]

Plus ça change and all that

[Longshanks]

There's no Bimbo
So we should be fine.

You could be right FF, but I don't think Boris could sell "following EU rules" to the party or the country, it would, in the mind of Brexiteers, undermine the whole reason for leaving the EU.
Thanks for the reply though.

[iarmhí]

The UK are using fishing as a bargaining tool for financial services. Fishing is way more important to the EU than the UK.

[fishfoodie]

There's no Bimbo
So we should be fine.

You could be right FF, but I don't think Boris could sell "following EU rules" to the party or the country, it would, in the mind of Brexiteers, undermine the whole reason for leaving the EU.
Thanks for the reply though.

and this is why I think the EU must grind their teeth every time he opens his mouth; & turns something that's a regular part of every EU Trade agreement; into some kind of national capitulation. He paints himself into a corner, & makes anything less than total concession by the EU as a complete failure by the UK. It's fucking maddening how often he does it; & it makes negotiations impossible.

[Longshanks]

Reading RTE website, which is a pretty good, especially Tony Connolly.

Phil Hogan today said all outstanding issues (the level playing field, fisheries and the EU Court of Justice) need to be resolved and if we do not resolve them then we will not have a deal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/070 ... an-brexit/

So despite the headline, there is no chance of a deal.

Even extreme Brexiteers realize now that the EU will under no circumstances give the UK our cake.
Best make solid plans for no deal.

I do wonder had the EU had thrown David Cameron a bone when he begged for one it would have worked out better than this.

[PCPhil]

There's no Bimbo
So we should be fine.

You could be right FF, but I don't think Boris could sell "following EU rules" to the party or the country, it would, in the mind of Brexiteers, undermine the whole reason for leaving the EU.
Thanks for the reply though.

No Bimbot you say! This is like leaving Salmon on the kitchen floor as the cat starts stretching.

[Ali Cadoo]

It would be nice if we could have civilised discussion about Brexit on here, differences of opinion should illuminate the debate - not crap all over it like that useless cunt Bimbo used to do.

[tabascoboy]

You could almost admire his tenacity in making several thousand posts on it, with virtually every one a strawman argument...let's hope for no derails here.

[Longshanks]

You could almost admire his tenacity in making several thousand posts on it, with virtually every one a strawman argument...let's hope for no derails here.

I don't know what he got out of it either.
I would say he did occasionally make valid arguments against some of the more extreme views, but couldn't just leave it there. Would bang on and on and on.
I hope he doesn't infect this place

[Line6 HXFX]

We all know Brexit is going to fuck up the UK 12 times over.
It is going to be like taking the UK outside, and just capping it in the back of the head.

At least Tory twatz will make another fortune huh.

[PCPhil]

Well, we voted for it. I personally felt sad (understatement of the year) the morning after. But we now have to get on with it.

[fishfoodie]

Reading RTE website, which is a pretty good, especially Tony Connolly.

Phil Hogan today said all outstanding issues (the level playing field, fisheries and the EU Court of Justice) need to be resolved and if we do not resolve them then we will not have a deal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/070 ... an-brexit/

So despite the headline, there is no chance of a deal.

Even extreme Brexiteers realize now that the EU will under no circumstances give the UK our cake.
Best make solid plans for no deal.

I do wonder had the EU had thrown David Cameron a bone when he begged for one it would have worked out better than this.

The UK already had the rebate; & opted out of the Euro etc; you were already the, "odd man of Europe"; to the considerable resentment of other EU Countries.

Can you tell us what kind of bone, the EU could have provided the UK that would; (1) not cause uproar with the rest of the EU, & (2) Satisfy the unsatisfiable ERG/BNP ?

[Longshanks]

Reading RTE website, which is a pretty good, especially Tony Connolly.

Phil Hogan today said all outstanding issues (the level playing field, fisheries and the EU Court of Justice) need to be resolved and if we do not resolve them then we will not have a deal.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/070 ... an-brexit/

So despite the headline, there is no chance of a deal.

Even extreme Brexiteers realize now that the EU will under no circumstances give the UK our cake.
Best make solid plans for no deal.

I do wonder had the EU had thrown David Cameron a bone when he begged for one it would have worked out better than this.

The UK already had the rebate; & opted out of the Euro etc; you were already the, "odd man of Europe"; to the considerable resentment of other EU Countries.

Can you tell us what kind of bone, the EU could have provided the UK that would; (1) not cause uproar with the rest of the EU, & (2) Satisfy the unsatisfiable ERG/BNP ?

He was seeking a limit on free movement. I'm not saying the EU should have, but that perhaps it would have been better than a no deal. The damage will be felt all over Europe. However, a no deal is the choice both sides have made.

[fishfoodie]

Reading RTE website, which is a pretty good, especially Tony Connolly.


https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/070 ... an-brexit/

So despite the headline, there is no chance of a deal.

Even extreme Brexiteers realize now that the EU will under no circumstances give the UK our cake.
Best make solid plans for no deal.

I do wonder had the EU had thrown David Cameron a bone when he begged for one it would have worked out better than this.

The UK already had the rebate; & opted out of the Euro etc; you were already the, "odd man of Europe"; to the considerable resentment of other EU Countries.

Can you tell us what kind of bone, the EU could have provided the UK that would; (1) not cause uproar with the rest of the EU, & (2) Satisfy the unsatisfiable ERG/BNP ?

He was seeking a limit on free movement. I'm not saying the EU should have, but that perhaps it would have been better than a no deal. The damage will be felt all over Europe. However, a no deal is the choice both sides have made.

Not really. What he sought was to restrict access to UK Benefits for EU workers.

What Cameron wanted: The Conservative manifesto said: "We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." It also proposed a "new residency requirement for social housing, so that EU migrants cannot even be considered for a council house unless they have been living in an area for at least four years".

The manifesto also pledged to "end the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits at all", adding that "if jobseekers have not found a job within six months, they will be required to leave".

But he ran into the same problem he did three years previously; where the rest of the EU saw him as a self-serving hypocrite; who was now having to deal with the exact problem everyone else saw as inevitable when he pushed for EU Expansion Eastward.

David Cameron has threatened to veto future enlargements of the EU – including the accession of countries like
Serbia and Albania – unless new rules are agreed to stop “vast migrations”.

Mr Cameron said the EU had to find ways “to slow down access to each other’s labour markets” to avoid a repeat
of the “huge mistake” that saw hundreds of thousands of Poles and Lithuanians come to Britain in the last decade.

Speaking at the end of a two-day summit in Brussels, the prime minister said he also wanted Europe to further
tighten rules on access to benefits, claiming that Germany, Austria and the Netherlands shared his concerns.

His comments are a response to public disquiet – and pressure from the UK Independence party – over the possible
arrival of a new wave of migrants from Bulgaria and Romania when work restrictions are lifted on January 1.

However, his threat to block future EU enlargements will be greeted with a wry smile in other European capitals:
Britain has always been the biggest enthusiast of widening the 28-member bloc to the east.

Cameron didn't listen; & the UK didn't do what other Countries did to prevent any possible benefits shopping (which I'm not convinced there ever was anything other than anecdotal evidence of), & then when UKIP started winning By-Elections, in the teeth of a recession; he paniced !

Of course the EU told him to fuck off; he made his bed; now he could lie in it.

[Hal Jordan]

You could almost admire his tenacity in making several thousand posts on it, with virtually every one a strawman argument...let's hope for no derails here.

I don't know what he got out of it either.
I would say he did occasionally make valid arguments against some of the more extreme views, but couldn't just leave it there. Would bang on and on and on.
I hope he doesn't infect this place

Because he was a dyed in the wool line toeing Tory drone who was able to turn from a doomsayer on Brexit to a cheerleader for it as Cameron supported Remain and then the Party pivoted to Leave post referendum because that was party policy.

[Zig]

I like the English, I like the Welsh and I love the Scots but the British are hard work.

Apropos of nothing some of my best mates have British passports(one who's never set foot in the UK). Haven't seen the new blue/black ones yet. ;)

[Longshanks]

Yet again talks end early, with "significant differences" remaining.
They are no going to agree. I honestly think they should give up these pointless discussions, it will go nowhere.
Hopefully by the end of the month they will accept the inevitable and businesses will know where they stand.
Disappointing, but it was always going to go this way. Oven ready deal my a!£*

[ASMO]

Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.

[Yeeb]

The UK already had the rebate; & opted out of the Euro etc; you were already the, "odd man of Europe"; to the considerable resentment of other EU Countries.

Can you tell us what kind of bone, the EU could have provided the UK that would; (1) not cause uproar with the rest of the EU, & (2) Satisfy the unsatisfiable ERG/BNP ?

He was seeking a limit on free movement. I'm not saying the EU should have, but that perhaps it would have been better than a no deal. The damage will be felt all over Europe. However, a no deal is the choice both sides have made.

Not really. What he sought was to restrict access to UK Benefits for EU workers.

What Cameron wanted: The Conservative manifesto said: "We will insist that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits and child benefit must live here and contribute to our country for a minimum of four years." It also proposed a "new residency requirement for social housing, so that EU migrants cannot even be considered for a council house unless they have been living in an area for at least four years".

The manifesto also pledged to "end the ability of EU jobseekers to claim any job-seeking benefits at all", adding that "if jobseekers have not found a job within six months, they will be required to leave".

But he ran into the same problem he did three years previously; where the rest of the EU saw him as a self-serving hypocrite; who was now having to deal with the exact problem everyone else saw as inevitable when he pushed for EU Expansion Eastward.

David Cameron has threatened to veto future enlargements of the EU – including the accession of countries like
Serbia and Albania – unless new rules are agreed to stop “vast migrations”.

Mr Cameron said the EU had to find ways “to slow down access to each other’s labour markets” to avoid a repeat
of the “huge mistake” that saw hundreds of thousands of Poles and Lithuanians come to Britain in the last decade.

Speaking at the end of a two-day summit in Brussels, the prime minister said he also wanted Europe to further
tighten rules on access to benefits, claiming that Germany, Austria and the Netherlands shared his concerns.

His comments are a response to public disquiet – and pressure from the UK Independence party – over the possible
arrival of a new wave of migrants from Bulgaria and Romania when work restrictions are lifted on January 1.

However, his threat to block future EU enlargements will be greeted with a wry smile in other European capitals:
Britain has always been the biggest enthusiast of widening the 28-member bloc to the east.

Cameron didn't listen; & the UK didn't do what other Countries did to prevent any possible benefits shopping (which I'm not convinced there ever was anything other than anecdotal evidence of), & then when UKIP started winning By-Elections, in the teeth of a recession; he paniced !

Of course the EU told him to fuck off; he made his bed; now he could lie in it.

Yup, us Romanians are to blame for all of brexit.
Turns out Dcam wanted cheap plumbers from east Europe to enter the Eu, but not the pool shitters from other parts of the world . Whilst I can totally see why the Eu was him as a hypocrite and why they chose not the throw him a bone, I do think that something / anything attempted back then would have been preferable to current brexit situation. Sadly, he was told to get stuffed , which made the leave campaign gain momentum. The benefits inequality wasn’t the most unreasonable request from dcam really, had he not pushed previously for expansion then he may have got his wish, who knows.

[Longshanks]

Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.

There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.

[JM2K6]

Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.

There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.

I don't know how much longer this needs to continue before people start understanding that our Government is not interested in a deal and is primarily aiming for No-Deal Brexit with the veneer of having tried but been rebuffed by the dastardly Euros.

[ASMO]

Problem is we just know that mop haired cunt and his assortment of clowns will blame the EU for it.."the EU would not bow down to our demands therefore it is all their fault" repeat ad infinitum.

There needed to be compromise, and both sides thought the other would blink.

Don't see why, the UK left, the EU rules are clear, access to the single market has to be on their terms, its their market, but wasn't it supposed to be the easiest deal to make in history? oh thats right the dastardly Europeans won't give in to the UK's demands.

[Ali Cadoo]

Don't see why, the UK left, the EU rules are clear, access to the single market has to be on their terms, its their market,

I don't know who you think you are, bringing cold, hard facts into the argument, but if you think that Brexshitters are going to let you get away with that sort of angle without whining like bitches, well - you, sir, are mistaken.