So, coronavirus...

[Ted.]

What are Kiwis thoughts on the 72 hour requirement for a negative covid test before coming here from the UK/USA?

I get the logic but it seems the MoH/Minister may have gone too short with the timeframe given the practicalities overseas. For example, results are only guaranteed within 72 hours in the UK but with check in times and opening hours, that may mean people cannot receive the result they need to travel within the specified period.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... sensecheck

I have some sympathy for the writer, but shit happens and he knew the risks. He wants to put us at jeopardy for his own convenience.

Anyway, to the point: It might need some tweaking to make it more user friendly. But stuff it, given limited berths at facilities and the more virulent variant out and about, we're quarantining people who are bringing Covid in, most likely some knowingly, so I have no issue with trying to weed as many of the positive cases out before they hit our shores.

[Muttonbird]

disagree I thought it was a pretty assured performance he looks a lot better than he did a couple of months ago. (Didn't see the questions as it makes me want to kill people)

'Course you did. That's because you've only ever recognised assuredness in complete twunts.

Well you are assuredly the biggest twunt of all!!

I'm not the one fudging up Britain.

[Hal Jordan]

Welcome back Bimbo. Have you caught up on the last dozen pages?

I wondered why the Dark Mark had returned.

[Paddington Bear]

Suggests that the UK may have in fact made the right choice by going alone for procurement?

At the time we were told it was English exceptionalism from a neo fascist government. The EU does a number of things very well, but on others has some serious defects. This would be one.

Of course, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t english exceptionalism from a neofascist government. Hitler got the trains running on time, doesn’t mean his social policy was much whack.

[Sandstorm]

[Openside]

Mrs Saint says you don't know what you're talking about

My sister who is a nurse and has done the course on vaccinating says Mrs Saint is confused...

Nurse-fight! She's looking to take a LOT of frustration out on someone ATM

Not at all, I am not all frustrated neither is my sister if your wife is frustrated I am sorry.

But this is the mixing process

You have to invert x10 slowly clean top of vial and neck of saline then draw up 1.8 mls of saline then inject into vial slowly not allowing needle to enter liquid then pull out 1.8 mls air then remove needle invert x10 then vial ready to draw up O.3 mls off each dose ready to inject !!

Plunging the needle into muscle is the easy bit!

[Openside]

'Course you did. That's because you've only ever recognised assuredness in complete twunts.

Well you are assuredly the biggest twunt of all!!

I'm not the one fudging up Britain.

That’s only because you are in another country!!

[Saint]

My sister who is a nurse and has done the course on vaccinating says Mrs Saint is confused...

Nurse-fight! She's looking to take a LOT of frustration out on someone ATM

Not at all, I am not all frustrated neither is my sister if your wife is frustrated I am sorry.

But this is the mixing process

You have to invert x10 slowly clean top of vial and neck of saline then draw up 1.8 mls of saline then inject into vial slowly not allowing needle to enter liquid then pull out 1.8 mls air then remove needle invert x10 then vial ready to draw up O.3 mls off each dose ready to inject !!

Plunging the needle into muscle is the easy bit!

That's not really any different to any other drug. The exact quantities change, but it's absolutely standard stuff, and that's actually the area that theoretically you could automate. Plunging the needle, as you put it, has all sorts of issues - both practical, and legal.

[Bimbowomxn]

Welcome back Bimbo. Have you caught up on the last dozen pages?

No point , it’s an echo chamber of everyone nodding along with the Rubbish being espoused.

[Bimbowomxn]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

[Saint]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

[Jock42]

London ambulance service not coping: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 82473.html

Thats nothing new at this time of year though. We're always pumped.

[Bimbowomxn]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

1) so they’re not being used, even though they’re an obvious resource, maybe a small amount of the £1 billion a day could have been spent here. They have the records enough for the Flu vaccine of course,

2) procurement cock up then. Let’s hope they add Sunday’s fairly soon, I’m sure GP’s will demand even more money for that though.

[Sandstorm]

Friend is a receptionist at local GP surgery. They've sent out the first group of invites to patients to get Covid job. Their phones are inundated with people phoning up saying "I'm vulnerable, I want to get it sooner" adn having an argument down the phone.

It's not a 100% vaccine and if you're vulnerable, just stay home.

[Raggs]

London ambulance service not coping: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 82473.html

Thats nothing new at this time of year though. We're always pumped.

To that degree? It's bad enough with the pandemic, if it's happening that badly every year it's even more of a disgrace on the governments part.

[Jock42]

London ambulance service not coping: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/heal ... 82473.html

Thats nothing new at this time of year though. We're always pumped.

To that degree? It's bad enough with the pandemic, if it's happening that badly every year it's even more of a disgrace on the governments part.

We're ok for our wait times at hospital here (compared to there) but I know the ARI have been waiting 4 hours before. Anecdotally its been better here this year than the past couple for our wait times at A&E. This is possibly due to the fact in my area we are able to admit to different wards. Its our response times that suffer more, most of the jobs on Monday had been in 3 or 4 hours.

[Saint]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

1) so they’re not being used, even though they’re an obvious resource, maybe a small amount of the £1 billion a day could have been spent here. They have the records enough for the Flu vaccine of course,

2) procurement cock up then. Let’s hope they add Sunday’s fairly soon, I’m sure GP’s will demand even more money for that though.

1 - They don't have the types of records needed for a national programmed immunisation campaign. They also don't have the facilities, the size or anything. It's not the way to deliver this at all. As a point, there isn't actually a clear record anywhere in the country of exactly who has or hasn't had the flu vaccine. It;'s delivered through Pharmacies, GPs and Community Nursing, and none of those three will share records with the others. All we really know about the Flu vaccine is how many vaccinations were delivered to different age groups

2 - Nothing whatsoever to do with procurement. It's a manufacturing/supply limitation

[Saint]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

1) so they’re not being used, even though they’re an obvious resource, maybe a small amount of the £1 billion a day could have been spent here. They have the records enough for the Flu vaccine of course,

2) procurement cock up then. Let’s hope they add Sunday’s fairly soon, I’m sure GP’s will demand even more money for that though.

1 - They don't have the types of records needed for a national programmed immunisation campaign. They also don't have the facilities, the size or anything. It's not the way to deliver this at all. As a point, there isn't actually a clear record anywhere in the country of exactly who has or hasn't had the flu vaccine. It;'s delivered through Pharmacies, GPs and Community Nursing, and none of those three will share records with the others. All we really know about the Flu vaccine is how many vaccinations were delivered to different age groups

2 - Nothing whatsoever to do with procurement. It's a manufacturing/supply limitation

[Saint]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

1) so they’re not being used, even though they’re an obvious resource, maybe a small amount of the £1 billion a day could have been spent here. They have the records enough for the Flu vaccine of course,

2) procurement cock up then. Let’s hope they add Sunday’s fairly soon, I’m sure GP’s will demand even more money for that though.

1 - They don't have the types of records needed for a national programmed immunisation campaign. They also don't have the facilities, the size or anything. It's not the way to deliver this at all. As a point, there isn't actually a clear record anywhere in the country of exactly who has or hasn't had the flu vaccine. It;'s delivered through Pharmacies, GPs and Community Nursing, and none of those three will share records with the others. All we really know about the Flu vaccine is how many vaccinations were delivered to different age groups

2 - Nothing whatsoever to do with procurement. It's a manufacturing/supply limitation

[tc27]

For most of England's mostly urbanised population its going to make sense to use big 'superhubs' to get the vaccine out. Places with lots of space and plenty of parking.

I can see the need for smaller facilities in places like Scotland outside of the central belt

[Saint]

Liostneing to a pharmcy spokesman on R5L - it's very clear that he's just angling for for a cut of the money the government are spending

[C69]

Liostneing to a pharmcy spokesman on R5L - it's very clear that he's just angling for for a cut of the money the government are spending

Tbh if the GPs are getting money via QOF for the vaccines lile they usually do for these things, it seems right that other who provide the service get equal renumeration.
Basically if you don't stuff GPs mouths with gold they don't do a thing.

Some of their QOF targets are a joke.
Getting eztra money for what their basic functionong should be.

[Saint]

Liostneing to a pharmcy spokesman on R5L - it's very clear that he's just angling for for a cut of the money the government are spending

Tbh if the GPs are getting money via QOF for the vaccines lile they usually do for these things, it seems right that other who provide the service get equal renumeration.
Basically if you don't stuff GPs mouths with gold they don't do a thing.

Some of their QOF targets are a joke.
Getting eztra money for what their basic functionong should be.

It's the way their contracts are written. Never forget that GPs surgeries are not part of the NHs

[Sandstorm]

No point telling him 3 times, Saint. He won't listen anyway.

[Lemoentjie]

Friend is a receptionist at local GP surgery. They've sent out the first group of invites to patients to get Covid job. Their phones are inundated with people phoning up saying "I'm vulnerable, I want to get it sooner" adn having an argument down the phone.

It's not a 100% vaccine and if you're vulnerable, just stay home.

How much 'sooner' are they arguing for? Maybe if it's 3 or 4 weeks understandable, but if it's a couple of days then...

[Sandstorm]

Friend is a receptionist at local GP surgery. They've sent out the first group of invites to patients to get Covid job. Their phones are inundated with people phoning up saying "I'm vulnerable, I want to get it sooner" adn having an argument down the phone.

It's not a 100% vaccine and if you're vulnerable, just stay home.

How much 'sooner' are they arguing for? Maybe if it's 3 or 4 weeks understandable, but if it's a couple of days then...

It's people being told their date is in February, but they want to come in tomorrow. Or "I'm only 55, but I have so many comorbidities that by rights I should be dead already. Why can't I have my Covid jab now instead of June?"

[Bimbowomxn]

Liostneing to a pharmcy spokesman on R5L - it's very clear that he's just angling for for a cut of the money the government are spending

Just like the mostly Private practice GP’s are. Looks like all this “difficulty “ protects the status quo.


My point earlier is that this is costing the country £1 billion a day at least where you tell us the record keeping is too difficult. How many millions would it cost to fix the record keeping problem VS the 7 billion a week the lockdowns currently cost.

PHE has proved to be a dreadful organisation through this whole pandemic, they’re not fit for purpose.

[Bimbowomxn]

No point telling him 3 times, Saint. He won't listen anyway.

Oh, I’ve listened and replied. “It’s too difficult” vs “tax payer expense of huge proportions” is all we are left with.

[Saint]

Liostneing to a pharmcy spokesman on R5L - it's very clear that he's just angling for for a cut of the money the government are spending

Just like the mostly Private practice GP’s are. Looks like all this “difficulty “ protects the status quo.


My point earlier is that this is costing the country £1 billion a day at least where you tell us the record keeping is too difficult. How many millions would it cost to fix the record keeping problem VS the 7 billion a week the lockdowns currently cost.

PHE has proved to be a dreadful organisation through this whole pandemic, they’re not fit for purpose.

Over the years, literally trillions of pounds has been spent on various failed projects for unifying patient records across the whole of the NHS infrastructure. The one thing in common with all of those projects is that they have failed. This is not a new problem, nor is it one that people haven't tried to fix many times.

[Bimbowomxn]

Liostneing to a pharmcy spokesman on R5L - it's very clear that he's just angling for for a cut of the money the government are spending

Just like the mostly Private practice GP’s are. Looks like all this “difficulty “ protects the status quo.


My point earlier is that this is costing the country £1 billion a day at least where you tell us the record keeping is too difficult. How many millions would it cost to fix the record keeping problem VS the 7 billion a week the lockdowns currently cost.

PHE has proved to be a dreadful organisation through this whole pandemic, they’re not fit for purpose.

Over the years, literally trillions of pounds has been spent on various failed projects for unifying patient records across the whole of the NHS infrastructure. The one thing in common with all of those projects is that they have failed. This is not a new problem, nor is it one that people haven't tried to fix many times.

No, sorry 1,000 billion has not been spent in failed record projects you’re wrong by a factor of 10.

The one common issue is the NHS and PHE are not fit for purpose in this regard quite clearly.

Give Amazon the job, it’ll be delivered in a year.

[Bimbowomxn]

Meanwhile shots fired.

[Flockwitt]

Friend is a receptionist at local GP surgery. They've sent out the first group of invites to patients to get Covid job. Their phones are inundated with people phoning up saying "I'm vulnerable, I want to get it sooner" adn having an argument down the phone.

It's not a 100% vaccine and if you're vulnerable, just stay home.

I can imagine this is a nightmare. I know this woman whose daughter has pretty much all the worst pre-conditions, asthmatic, diabetic, low immune system and is rightfully terrified of Covid. If she lived in the UK she would be at the head of the queue demanding vaccination.

[Lemoentjie]

Meanwhile shots fired.

She's just confused. At the start she is talking about how if you speed up the vaccination process, you have less confidence in the effectiveness of the vaccine. Then at the end it seems she is criticising the standard of the vaccines themselves, but I think she is just confused and means the standard of the process of approval rather than the actual vaccine.

[Sandstorm]

Meanwhile shots fired.

She's just confused. At the start she is talking about how if you speed up the vaccination process, you have less confidence in the effectiveness of the vaccine. Then at the end it seems she is criticising the standard of the vaccines themselves, but I think she is just confused and means the standard of the process of approval rather than the actual vaccine (which is what she was talking about earlier).

She's not confused, she's putting out excuses now as to why the super-unified and wonderfully organised EU are falling behind everyone else at getting their people vaccinated. If this Tory Government is more organised than yours, you should be fucking worried!

[Openside]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

So let them inoculate the AZ variety - not sure there is much Pfizer left from Original batch. (unless they are doing away with second doses.)

[Openside]

Nurse-fight! She's looking to take a LOT of frustration out on someone ATM

Not at all, I am not all frustrated neither is my sister if your wife is frustrated I am sorry.

But this is the mixing process

You have to invert x10 slowly clean top of vial and neck of saline then draw up 1.8 mls of saline then inject into vial slowly not allowing needle to enter liquid then pull out 1.8 mls air then remove needle invert x10 then vial ready to draw up O.3 mls off each dose ready to inject !!

Plunging the needle into muscle is the easy bit!

That's not really any different to any other drug. The exact quantities change, but it's absolutely standard stuff, and that's actually the area that theoretically you could automate. Plunging the needle, as you put it, has all sorts of issues - both practical, and legal.

Well she has spent a life nursing up to and including sister on the ICU at Tommies so if she tells me mixing it is the hard part I am going to take her word for it.

[Jock42]

Mate, I've done that twice today and got the extra 6th dose out of the first vial. The drama is have enough left for 6.

Storage is the main issue. We have 5 days from delivery then 6 hours from dilution to use our allocation.

[Openside]

Mate, I've done that twice today and got the extra 6th dose out of the first vial. The drama is have enough left for 6.

Storage is the main issue. We have 5 days from delivery then 6 hours from dilution to use our allocation.

How long before Pfizer start reducing the amount in the vial to ensure you are only getting the 5 you have paid for??

[Biffer]

Now, can someone explain why the pharmacy’s aren’t vaccinating and that there’s few if any vaccinations planned for Sunday’s.

1 - Pharmacies don't have records of the whole country, so can't ensure that the required categories are getting the request (also, few have the required refrigeration for Pfizer anyway)
2 - That is still down to supply. Right now we have the capability to deliver more vaccine this week than we will have supply. That may change over the next few weeks as supply is expected to increase dramatically

So let them inoculate the AZ variety - not sure there is much Pfizer left from Original batch. (unless they are doing away with second doses.)

And how do you plan to get round the other problems?

[Openside]

Meanwhile shots fired.

She's just confused. At the start she is talking about how if you speed up the vaccination process, you have less confidence in the effectiveness of the vaccine. Then at the end it seems she is criticising the standard of the vaccines themselves, but I think she is just confused and means the standard of the process of approval rather than the actual vaccine (which is what she was talking about earlier).

She's not confused, she's putting out excuses now as to why the super-unified and wonderfully organised EU are falling behind everyone else at getting their people vaccinated. If this Tory Government is more organised than yours, you should be fucking worried!

If I was a German and discovered my Chancellor had blocked the Health Minister ordering millions of doses, so as to show solidarity to the bureaucratic leviathan that is the EU I would be incandescent. Potentially Merkel has condemned thousands of German citizens to death to blow smoke up Brussels arse.