So, coronavirus...

[GogLais]

Police in South Derbyshire have been going at it quite hard at a few obvious outdoor areas people tend to drive to. Had to back off a fair bit given some allegations of heavy handed issue of fixed penalty notices etc. They seem to be trying to enforce the guidance about staying home and exercising locally (whatever locally means). Their problem is the guidance is just that and has no legal force.

I’m afraid pleading with people to do the right thing isn’t going to get us very far this time round.

The police said the two women weren't acting in the spirit of the regulations. Not sure about that really, shouldn't the police be working to the letter of the regulations? On the Wirral I can either walk the local roads from the doorstep or I can drive five miles to a wide windswept promenade overlooking Liverpool Bay well away from anyone. At the moment I feel no shame in doing the latter. I might even see the Snow Buntings.

[Slick]

In my town all the GP's are running a 'super vaccination clinic' together in one of the council buildings starting from Monday aiming to do 'thousands per week'. I get the impression things will really start picking up steam next week.

I see Devi Sridar is flogging her 'we eliminated CV in Scotland ' line without any push back from commentators.

I think commentators are bored of the twat

[dpedin]

In my town all the GP's are running a 'super vaccination clinic' together in one of the council buildings starting from Monday aiming to do 'thousands per week'. I get the impression things will really start picking up steam next week.

I see Devi Sridar is flogging her 'we eliminated CV in Scotland ' line without any push back from commentators.

I think commentators are bored of the twat

Funny - you see twat I whereas I see a Professor of Public Health who actually knows what she is talking about and has actually got most things correct. Is it because what she says doesn't confirm your own views? It would be good to know what you think she has got wrong and explain, with evidence, why this is the case? I would suggest that most commentators, whoever this means, are probably more interesting in her views than many others who seem to talk through their arsehole.

Oh and by the way, community transmission of the virus was almost eliminated in the summer in Scotland, new cases ave over 7 days was running low teens between mid June and early August. Test, Track and Trace was managing that level of transmission. However the numbers started rising again in August, mainly through importing cases from elsewhere, according to the genomic testing it seemed mostly from Spain. It would appear the 2 weeks in Costa del Sol was the culprit. If only we had taken Devi Sridar's advice and closed the UK rail, sea and airport borders then. It would appear the Gov have got the message now , if somewhat too late in the day and can't still implement it properly!

[Slick]

In my town all the GP's are running a 'super vaccination clinic' together in one of the council buildings starting from Monday aiming to do 'thousands per week'. I get the impression things will really start picking up steam next week.

I see Devi Sridar is flogging her 'we eliminated CV in Scotland ' line without any push back from commentators.

I think commentators are bored of the twat

Funny - you see twat I whereas I see a Professor of Public Health who actually knows what she is talking about and has actually got most things correct. Is it because what she says doesn't confirm your own views? It would be good to know what you think she has got wrong and explain, with evidence, why this is the case? I would suggest that most commentators, whoever this means, are probably more interesting in her views than many others who seem to talk through their arsehole.

Oh and by the way, community transmission of the virus was almost eliminated in the summer in Scotland, new cases ave over 7 days was running low teens between mid June and early August. Test, Track and Trace was managing that level of transmission. However the numbers started rising again in August, mainly through importing cases from elsewhere, according to the genomic testing it seemed mostly from Spain. It would appear the 2 weeks in Costa del Sol was the culprit. If only we had taken Devi Sridar's advice and closed the UK rail, sea and airport borders then. It would appear the Gov have got the message now , if somewhat too late in the day and can't still implement it properly!

Can you just confirm who you are blaming for Scotland also being shite at controlling Covid?

If Devi could manage to shut her mouth and concentrate on what she is meant to be doing instead of being overtly political and self publicising I’d listen more.

[Dogbert]

Slick

If you were in charge what would you have done differently ?

[Slick]

Slick

If you were in charge what would you have done differently ?

No idea really. I think I’ve been pretty consistent with not overly blaming any government, it’s an unprecedented situation and I don’t think anyone can say with any authority what would have worked better. Particularly when taking into account all the factors that governments have to consider.

My issue with dpedins commentary, and he knows more about this than anyone else on the board I think, is that we have a daily couple of paragraphs on how dreadful Boris and UK Government are but no criticism of SG. More than that, any criticism of SG is robustly defended but here we are in a similarly shit position.

[Rinkals]

I think you are the poster who is friends with Dominic Raab? So your loyalty toward the Government position may be understandable, but it doesn't really mesh with the reality.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that the Government's response to the pandemic has been indecisive, incoherent and irrational.

[Slick]

I think you are the poster who is friends with Dominic Raab? So your loyalty toward the Government position may be understandable, but it doesn't really mesh with the reality.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that the Government's response to the pandemic has been indecisive, incoherent and irrational.

That’s got absolutely nothing to do with it. I’ve never voted for them and can’t see a situation where I would

Anyway, I’m not defending the government I’m just saying that none of us have all the facts at our disposal and in my opinion it’s too early to be able to point fingers of blame with any certainty. It’s easy to sit on your sofa and shout, a bit more difficult when you have all the cogs of governing to balance

[Un Pilier]

Police in South Derbyshire have been going at it quite hard at a few obvious outdoor areas people tend to drive to. Had to back off a fair bit given some allegations of heavy handed issue of fixed penalty notices etc. They seem to be trying to enforce the guidance about staying home and exercising locally (whatever locally means). Their problem is the guidance is just that and has no legal force.

I’m afraid pleading with people to do the right thing isn’t going to get us very far this time round.

The police said the two women weren't acting in the spirit of the regulations. Not sure about that really, shouldn't the police be working to the letter of the regulations? On the Wirral I can either walk the local roads from the doorstep or I can drive five miles to a wide windswept promenade overlooking Liverpool Bay well away from anyone. At the moment I feel no shame in doing the latter. I might even see the Snow Buntings.

That sounds lovely. I would do the same.

The problem is that the regulations are far from clear and the issue for much of the Derbyshire countryside is that it is surrounded by big cities in most directions. Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham and to the south Birmingham, Stoke and Leicester etc.

Less than 40,000 people live in the Peak District National Park - it’s estimated a further 20 million live within a half hour drive.

[salanya]

I think it's really unhelpful that the press have given so much attention to those two attention-seeking bints. They were on front pages of websites and national newspapers, taking up far too much space in a week where the pandemic has gotten really bad, government were late to take action again, people are losing jobs, the impact of Brexit is starting to become clear, and there was a Trump-incited attack on the Capitol, amongst other headlines.

Was the action by the police harsh, and would a simple warning have sufficed? Probably, and the soundbites on takeaway drinks amounting to a picnic was silly. Though perhaps we've not been provided with the full context of the story, and the ladies did make it sound like there were 6 police cars and 12 officers with pulled guns surrounding them...

But there are 1000 people dying per day at the moment, so let's not focus on one minor action where one could cite that the rules are a bit unclear. Instead, let's spend more time on making rules and context clear; whether one can travel to holiday homes, who is allowed in bubbles, if you can travel for exercise, which services to avoid if you can etc.

[GogLais]

Police in South Derbyshire have been going at it quite hard at a few obvious outdoor areas people tend to drive to. Had to back off a fair bit given some allegations of heavy handed issue of fixed penalty notices etc. They seem to be trying to enforce the guidance about staying home and exercising locally (whatever locally means). Their problem is the guidance is just that and has no legal force.

I’m afraid pleading with people to do the right thing isn’t going to get us very far this time round.

The police said the two women weren't acting in the spirit of the regulations. Not sure about that really, shouldn't the police be working to the letter of the regulations? On the Wirral I can either walk the local roads from the doorstep or I can drive five miles to a wide windswept promenade overlooking Liverpool Bay well away from anyone. At the moment I feel no shame in doing the latter. I might even see the Snow Buntings.

That sounds lovely. I would do the same.

The problem is that the regulations are far from clear and the issue for much of the Derbyshire countryside is that it is surrounded by big cities in most directions. Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham and to the south Birmingham, Stoke and Leicester etc.

Less than 40,000 people live in the Peak District National Park - it’s estimated a further 20 million live within a half hour drive.

I know dealing with Covid is far far more important at the moment but I was struck by the police saying they were working to the spirit of the law. As a general point I don't think it's up to them to do that. If Parliament wanted to stop people driving somewhere for exercise, which would be fine by me, it could have put that into law.

[Blackmac]

The police can't win. One day they are getting pelters for being too lax, the next day they are too excessive. A couple of cops in Aberdeen are about to get hung out to dry after being called to an alleged house party and the situation went pear shaped. The behaviour of the bitch involved prior to her arrest is disgusting but they will get zero support whatsoever.

[Blackmac]

I think it's really unhelpful that the press have given so much attention to those two attention-seeking bints. They were on front pages of websites and national newspapers, taking up far too much space in a week where the pandemic has gotten really bad, government were late to take action again, people are losing jobs, the impact of Brexit is starting to become clear, and there was a Trump-incited attack on the Capitol, amongst other headlines.

Was the action by the police harsh, and would a simple warning have sufficed? Probably, and the soundbites on takeaway drinks amounting to a picnic was silly. Though perhaps we've not been provided with the full context of the story, and the ladies did make it sound like there were 6 police cars and 12 officers with pulled guns surrounding them...

But there are 1000 people dying per day at the moment, so let's not focus on one minor action where one could cite that the rules are a bit unclear. Instead, let's spend more time on making rules and context clear; whether one can travel to holiday homes, who is allowed in bubbles, if you can travel for exercise, which services to avoid if you can etc.

Together with being photographed like a couple of Instagram models in all their finery. No such thing as bad publicity...

[Dogbert]

Slick

If you were in charge what would you have done differently ?

No idea really. I think I’ve been pretty consistent with not overly blaming any government, it’s an unprecedented situation and I don’t think anyone can say with any authority what would have worked better. Particularly when taking into account all the factors that governments have to consider.

My issue with dpedins commentary, and he knows more about this than anyone else on the board I think, is that we have a daily couple of paragraphs on how dreadful Boris and UK Government are but no criticism of SG. More than that, any criticism of SG is robustly defended but here we are in a similarly shit position.

Have you missed TC27's contribution on the Scottish Politics Thread ? ( along with NL / Blackmac / Westport etc ) - to say that there has been no criticism of the SG is dishonest

[Slick]

Slick

If you were in charge what would you have done differently ?

No idea really. I think I’ve been pretty consistent with not overly blaming any government, it’s an unprecedented situation and I don’t think anyone can say with any authority what would have worked better. Particularly when taking into account all the factors that governments have to consider.

My issue with dpedins commentary, and he knows more about this than anyone else on the board I think, is that we have a daily couple of paragraphs on how dreadful Boris and UK Government are but no criticism of SG. More than that, any criticism of SG is robustly defended but here we are in a similarly shit position.

Have you missed TC27's contribution on the Scottish Politics Thread ? ( along with NL / Blackmac / Westport etc ) - to say that there has been no criticism of the SG is dishonest

I think you need to read my post again

[tc27]

Not sure I have criticised the SG rather than disagree with the view that the SG had handled the situation particulary better than other parts of the UK.

My view on the UKs response as a whole is not favourable.

[Dogbert]

No idea really. I think I’ve been pretty consistent with not overly blaming any government, it’s an unprecedented situation and I don’t think anyone can say with any authority what would have worked better. Particularly when taking into account all the factors that governments have to consider.

My issue with dpedins commentary, and he knows more about this than anyone else on the board I think, is that we have a daily couple of paragraphs on how dreadful Boris and UK Government are but no criticism of SG. More than that, any criticism of SG is robustly defended but here we are in a similarly shit position.

Have you missed TC27's contribution on the Scottish Politics Thread ? ( along with NL / Blackmac / Westport etc ) - to say that there has been no criticism of the SG is dishonest

I think you need to read my post again

I may be misreading your original post completely , and if so I apologize but I'm not quite sure what you are alluding too .

Yes Dpedin does post how dreadful he believes how Westminster has handled this unprecedented situation , but he is under no obligation for the sake of balance to criticize the SG in his posts , he is in a position of presenting a point of view that is against most of the other Scottish posters

My position is that both Governments have made some pretty awful decisions , but they are both following the same Pathway in handling the pandemic , with really only very minor differences

Could the SG have tried an alternative ? ,

My personal thoughts are that they had really no option that to follow Westminster .

Could they for example tried to emulate the NZ / Aus option - they certainly had an opportunity in the summer when the virus was at very low levels - but they did not have the legal competence , to enforce a different strategy, or really any other different strategy

So in the end , the only option they had was to make minor changes and have better communication

[dkm57]

Thought the Rugby tonight item with the medic guy from Bristol Bears was very interesting, insightful and thought provoking.

[tc27]

Have you missed TC27's contribution on the Scottish Politics Thread ? ( along with NL / Blackmac / Westport etc ) - to say that there has been no criticism of the SG is dishonest

I think you need to read my post again

I may be misreading your original post completely , and if so I apologize but I'm not quite sure what you are alluding too .

Yes Dpedin does post how dreadful he believes how Westminster has handled this unprecedented situation , but he is under no obligation for the sake of balance to criticize the SG in his posts , he is in a position of presenting a point of view that is against most of the other Scottish posters

My position is that both Governments have made some pretty awful decisions , but they are both following the same Pathway in handling the pandemic , with really only very minor differences

Could the SG have tried an alternative ? ,

My personal thoughts are that they had really no option that to follow Westminster .

Could they for example tried to emulate the NZ / Aus option - they certainly had an opportunity in the summer when the virus was at very low levels - but they did not have the legal competence , to enforce a different strategy, or really any other different strategy

So in the end , the only option they had was to make minor changes and have better communication

Transport is devolved - closing the airports was fully within the powers which coupled with the legislation banning travel from other parts of the UK (passed recently so apparently within the legal competence of the SG) would have achieved a defacto closed border. Likewise insisting on quarantines for international arrivals with SG powers under public health. Trying to bend facts to suit a 'SG good UKG bad' narrative not supported by facts. Both have failed multiple tests and should be held to account.

Additionally we know the long period of no apparent deaths that lead to various claims Scotland had eliminated the virus were simply false - a result of NSC using a different reporting methodology. Even if we accept the second way was emnitrely due to people coming back from holidays in Spain like Devi Sridar is now saying surely that indicates another failure of government within the devolved remit.


Devi is pretty much doing the same here:



I agree with her in general that travel should be banned (particularity for a football training camp) but she simply cant bring herself to criticism the SNP government for which she has become a partisan. Celtic were travelling with direct approval from the Scottish government.

[Biffer]

I think you need to read my post again

I may be misreading your original post completely , and if so I apologize but I'm not quite sure what you are alluding too .

Yes Dpedin does post how dreadful he believes how Westminster has handled this unprecedented situation , but he is under no obligation for the sake of balance to criticize the SG in his posts , he is in a position of presenting a point of view that is against most of the other Scottish posters

My position is that both Governments have made some pretty awful decisions , but they are both following the same Pathway in handling the pandemic , with really only very minor differences

Could the SG have tried an alternative ? ,

My personal thoughts are that they had really no option that to follow Westminster .

Could they for example tried to emulate the NZ / Aus option - they certainly had an opportunity in the summer when the virus was at very low levels - but they did not have the legal competence , to enforce a different strategy, or really any other different strategy

So in the end , the only option they had was to make minor changes and have better communication

Transport is devolved - closing the airports was fully within the powers which coupled with the legislation banning travel from other parts of the UK (passed recently so apparently within the legal competence of the SG) would have achieved a defacto closed border. Likewise insisting on quarantines for international arrivals with SG powers under public health. Trying to bend facts to suit a 'SG good UKG bad' narrative not supported by facts. Both have failed multiple tests and should be held to account.

Additionally we know the long period of no apparent deaths that lead to various claims Scotland had eliminated the virus were simply false - a result of NSC using a different reporting methodology. Even if we accept the second way was emnitrely due to people coming back from holidays in Spain like Devi Sridar is now saying surely that indicates another failure of government within the devolved remit.


Devi is pretty much doing the same here:



I agree with her in general that travel should be banned (particularity for a football training camp) but she simply cant bring herself to criticism the SNP government for which she has become a partisan. Celtic were travelling with direct approval from the Scottish government.

Most powers over aviation are reserved to Westminster.

[tc27]

I may be misreading your original post completely , and if so I apologize but I'm not quite sure what you are alluding too .

Yes Dpedin does post how dreadful he believes how Westminster has handled this unprecedented situation , but he is under no obligation for the sake of balance to criticize the SG in his posts , he is in a position of presenting a point of view that is against most of the other Scottish posters

My position is that both Governments have made some pretty awful decisions , but they are both following the same Pathway in handling the pandemic , with really only very minor differences

Could the SG have tried an alternative ? ,

My personal thoughts are that they had really no option that to follow Westminster .

Could they for example tried to emulate the NZ / Aus option - they certainly had an opportunity in the summer when the virus was at very low levels - but they did not have the legal competence , to enforce a different strategy, or really any other different strategy

So in the end , the only option they had was to make minor changes and have better communication

Transport is devolved - closing the airports was fully within the powers which coupled with the legislation banning travel from other parts of the UK (passed recently so apparently within the legal competence of the SG) would have achieved a defacto closed border. Likewise insisting on quarantines for international arrivals with SG powers under public health. Trying to bend facts to suit a 'SG good UKG bad' narrative not supported by facts. Both have failed multiple tests and should be held to account.

Additionally we know the long period of no apparent deaths that lead to various claims Scotland had eliminated the virus were simply false - a result of NSC using a different reporting methodology. Even if we accept the second way was emnitrely due to people coming back from holidays in Spain like Devi Sridar is now saying surely that indicates another failure of government within the devolved remit.


Devi is pretty much doing the same here:



I agree with her in general that travel should be banned (particularity for a football training camp) but she simply cant bring herself to criticism the SNP government for which she has become a partisan. Celtic were travelling with direct approval from the Scottish government.

Most powers over aviation are reserved to Westminster.

As explained devolved powers over transport (including airports) and public health could be used.

[Saint]

I may be misreading your original post completely , and if so I apologize but I'm not quite sure what you are alluding too .

Yes Dpedin does post how dreadful he believes how Westminster has handled this unprecedented situation , but he is under no obligation for the sake of balance to criticize the SG in his posts , he is in a position of presenting a point of view that is against most of the other Scottish posters

My position is that both Governments have made some pretty awful decisions , but they are both following the same Pathway in handling the pandemic , with really only very minor differences

Could the SG have tried an alternative ? ,

My personal thoughts are that they had really no option that to follow Westminster .

Could they for example tried to emulate the NZ / Aus option - they certainly had an opportunity in the summer when the virus was at very low levels - but they did not have the legal competence , to enforce a different strategy, or really any other different strategy

So in the end , the only option they had was to make minor changes and have better communication

Transport is devolved - closing the airports was fully within the powers which coupled with the legislation banning travel from other parts of the UK (passed recently so apparently within the legal competence of the SG) would have achieved a defacto closed border. Likewise insisting on quarantines for international arrivals with SG powers under public health. Trying to bend facts to suit a 'SG good UKG bad' narrative not supported by facts. Both have failed multiple tests and should be held to account.

Additionally we know the long period of no apparent deaths that lead to various claims Scotland had eliminated the virus were simply false - a result of NSC using a different reporting methodology. Even if we accept the second way was emnitrely due to people coming back from holidays in Spain like Devi Sridar is now saying surely that indicates another failure of government within the devolved remit.


Devi is pretty much doing the same here:



I agree with her in general that travel should be banned (particularity for a football training camp) but she simply cant bring herself to criticism the SNP government for which she has become a partisan. Celtic were travelling with direct approval from the Scottish government.

Most powers over aviation are reserved to Westminster.

You have to separate Aviation from the Airport. The Scots Government have the ability to close the airports, and even close the border.

[dpedin]

Transport is devolved - closing the airports was fully within the powers which coupled with the legislation banning travel from other parts of the UK (passed recently so apparently within the legal competence of the SG) would have achieved a defacto closed border. Likewise insisting on quarantines for international arrivals with SG powers under public health. Trying to bend facts to suit a 'SG good UKG bad' narrative not supported by facts. Both have failed multiple tests and should be held to account.

Additionally we know the long period of no apparent deaths that lead to various claims Scotland had eliminated the virus were simply false - a result of NSC using a different reporting methodology. Even if we accept the second way was emnitrely due to people coming back from holidays in Spain like Devi Sridar is now saying surely that indicates another failure of government within the devolved remit.


Devi is pretty much doing the same here:



I agree with her in general that travel should be banned (particularity for a football training camp) but she simply cant bring herself to criticism the SNP government for which she has become a partisan. Celtic were travelling with direct approval from the Scottish government.

Most powers over aviation are reserved to Westminster.

You have to separate Aviation from the Airport. The Scots Government have the ability to close the airports, and even close the border.

Border control is not a devolved issue, it remains with the UK Gov Home Office and Priti Patel in particular. However the recent legislation introduced by the SG made it illegal to enter or leave the country without reasonable cause. The Scottish Conservative MSP and professor of public law Adam Tomkins wasn't happy and said: “Is this within Holyrood’s competence? For one thing, freedom of movement would appear to be expressly reserved to the UK parliament under the Scotland Act. For another, it’s not clear that the Scottish parliament can make rules contrary to the common travel area, as agreed to by the UK and Ireland. It’s not at all clear if the draft regulations published today are within the remit of the Scottish parliament.” I suppose it needs tested legally?

However by controlling travel within Scotland under covid restrictions and the tier system there a sort of travel ban?

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

[Un Pilier]

I think it's really unhelpful that the press have given so much attention to those two attention-seeking bints. They were on front pages of websites and national newspapers, taking up far too much space in a week where the pandemic has gotten really bad, government were late to take action again, people are losing jobs, the impact of Brexit is starting to become clear, and there was a Trump-incited attack on the Capitol, amongst other headlines.

Was the action by the police harsh, and would a simple warning have sufficed? Probably, and the soundbites on takeaway drinks amounting to a picnic was silly. Though perhaps we've not been provided with the full context of the story, and the ladies did make it sound like there were 6 police cars and 12 officers with pulled guns surrounding them...

But there are 1000 people dying per day at the moment, so let's not focus on one minor action where one could cite that the rules are a bit unclear. Instead, let's spend more time on making rules and context clear; whether one can travel to holiday homes, who is allowed in bubbles, if you can travel for exercise, which services to avoid if you can etc.

Pretty much as I see it. This media feasting on anything cack-handed or ill-advised just undermines the efforts of a lot of well meaning people and, in the end, weakens our collective effort. Report it, fine. But saturation coverage of a relatively minor incident was pathetic.

[dpedin]

I think it's really unhelpful that the press have given so much attention to those two attention-seeking bints. They were on front pages of websites and national newspapers, taking up far too much space in a week where the pandemic has gotten really bad, government were late to take action again, people are losing jobs, the impact of Brexit is starting to become clear, and there was a Trump-incited attack on the Capitol, amongst other headlines.

Was the action by the police harsh, and would a simple warning have sufficed? Probably, and the soundbites on takeaway drinks amounting to a picnic was silly. Though perhaps we've not been provided with the full context of the story, and the ladies did make it sound like there were 6 police cars and 12 officers with pulled guns surrounding them...

But there are 1000 people dying per day at the moment, so let's not focus on one minor action where one could cite that the rules are a bit unclear. Instead, let's spend more time on making rules and context clear; whether one can travel to holiday homes, who is allowed in bubbles, if you can travel for exercise, which services to avoid if you can etc.

Pretty much as I see it. This media feasting on anything cack-handed or ill-advised just undermines the efforts of a lot of well meaning people and, in the end, weakens our collective effort. Report it, fine. But saturation coverage of a relatively minor incident was pathetic.

Agree, a non event all round given the wider context and the world wide events taking place. Not worth the attention.

[Saint]

Most powers over aviation are reserved to Westminster.

You have to separate Aviation from the Airport. The Scots Government have the ability to close the airports, and even close the border.

Border control is not a devolved issue, it remains with the UK Gov Home Office and Priti Patel in particular. However the recent legislation introduced by the SG made it illegal to enter or leave the country without reasonable cause. The Scottish Conservative MSP and professor of public law Adam Tomkins wasn't happy and said: “Is this within Holyrood’s competence? For one thing, freedom of movement would appear to be expressly reserved to the UK parliament under the Scotland Act. For another, it’s not clear that the Scottish parliament can make rules contrary to the common travel area, as agreed to by the UK and Ireland. It’s not at all clear if the draft regulations published today are within the remit of the Scottish parliament.” I suppose it needs tested legally?

However by controlling travel within Scotland under covid restrictions and the tier system there a sort of travel ban?

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

They can effectively close the border to Scotland - that's pretty clear. But they can't change the overall border policy - so they can't have a different immigration policy to UK/Wales. So if London decides that country x can enter without passport control, then Scotland can't determine otherwise. But Scotland can decide to refuse entry to everybody as part of a Pandemic response strategy

[dpedin]

You have to separate Aviation from the Airport. The Scots Government have the ability to close the airports, and even close the border.

Border control is not a devolved issue, it remains with the UK Gov Home Office and Priti Patel in particular. However the recent legislation introduced by the SG made it illegal to enter or leave the country without reasonable cause. The Scottish Conservative MSP and professor of public law Adam Tomkins wasn't happy and said: “Is this within Holyrood’s competence? For one thing, freedom of movement would appear to be expressly reserved to the UK parliament under the Scotland Act. For another, it’s not clear that the Scottish parliament can make rules contrary to the common travel area, as agreed to by the UK and Ireland. It’s not at all clear if the draft regulations published today are within the remit of the Scottish parliament.” I suppose it needs tested legally?

However by controlling travel within Scotland under covid restrictions and the tier system there a sort of travel ban?

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

They can effectively close the border to Scotland - that's pretty clear. But they can't change the overall border policy - so they can't have a different immigration policy to UK/Wales. So if London decides that country x can enter without passport control, then Scotland can't determine otherwise. But Scotland can decide to refuse entry to everybody as part of a Pandemic response strategy

Is that not the bit that is under debate - as per the quote I gave above - can Scotland refuse entry to someone travelling from abroad if it is allowed by the UK Gov? Scotland can certainly enforce travel and isolation requirements, etc when they are here but it is not clear if Scotland can stop travel from overseas if it is allowed by UK Gov. The recent SG legislation suggests they can and in effect they have now implemented one in the last few weeks.

[tc27]

Border control is not a devolved issue, it remains with the UK Gov Home Office and Priti Patel in particular. However the recent legislation introduced by the SG made it illegal to enter or leave the country without reasonable cause. The Scottish Conservative MSP and professor of public law Adam Tomkins wasn't happy and said: “Is this within Holyrood’s competence? For one thing, freedom of movement would appear to be expressly reserved to the UK parliament under the Scotland Act. For another, it’s not clear that the Scottish parliament can make rules contrary to the common travel area, as agreed to by the UK and Ireland. It’s not at all clear if the draft regulations published today are within the remit of the Scottish parliament.” I suppose it needs tested legally?

However by controlling travel within Scotland under covid restrictions and the tier system there a sort of travel ban?

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

They can effectively close the border to Scotland - that's pretty clear. But they can't change the overall border policy - so they can't have a different immigration policy to UK/Wales. So if London decides that country x can enter without passport control, then Scotland can't determine otherwise. But Scotland can decide to refuse entry to everybody as part of a Pandemic response strategy

Is that not the bit that is under debate - as per the quote I gave above - can Scotland refuse entry to someone travelling from abroad if it is allowed by the UK Gov? Scotland can certainly enforce travel and isolation requirements, etc when they are here but it is not clear if Scotland can stop travel from overseas if it is allowed by UK Gov. The recent SG legislation suggests they can and in effect they have now implemented one in the last few weeks.

Its late but I think reading that we are all in agreement that preventing/quarantining international arrivals could be achieved...in fact I see that the SG has just placed a quarantine requirement on arrivals from Dubia.

[Sandstorm]

I think it's really unhelpful that the press have given so much attention to those two attention-seeking bints. They were on front pages of websites and national newspapers, taking up far too much space in a week where the pandemic has gotten really bad, government were late to take action again, people are losing jobs, the impact of Brexit is starting to become clear, and there was a Trump-incited attack on the Capitol, amongst other headlines.

Was the action by the police harsh, and would a simple warning have sufficed? Probably, and the soundbites on takeaway drinks amounting to a picnic was silly. Though perhaps we've not been provided with the full context of the story, and the ladies did make it sound like there were 6 police cars and 12 officers with pulled guns surrounding them...

But there are 1000 people dying per day at the moment, so let's not focus on one minor action where one could cite that the rules are a bit unclear. Instead, let's spend more time on making rules and context clear; whether one can travel to holiday homes, who is allowed in bubbles, if you can travel for exercise, which services to avoid if you can etc.

Pretty much as I see it. This media feasting on anything cack-handed or ill-advised just undermines the efforts of a lot of well meaning people and, in the end, weakens our collective effort. Report it, fine. But saturation coverage of a relatively minor incident was pathetic.

Agree, a non event all round given the wider context and the world wide events taking place. Not worth the attention.

Disagree 100%. The police should have made a proper example and shot the stupid women in the face or something.

If there is a pandemic and 1000 people are dying each day, then it’s overdue this Government got serious.

It’s not a “non-event”, it’s 1 of thousands happening everywhere every day and it’s not going to stop Covid until stupid people wise up.

[Enzedder]

Japan’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases announced they have discovered a new strain of the coronavirus in four passengers that arrived in Japan’s Haneda airport from Brazil.

I wonder when the one that increases the lethality (is that a word) to 20% or something will arrive?

[salanya]

Chris Whitty on BBC Breakfast this morning, and he's pretty indoctrinated/strongly briefed by the government.
Giving non-answers and towing the line.

One answer he notes that household mixing is by far the biggest issue and one people should take really seriously and absolutely avoid.
A builder asked how he, as a non-keyworker, is allowed to go to many different households and mix with others.
'Well, this situation is going to take quite a bit longer, and we understand that society still needs to move on and function'

Those two answers really did not align, and there's been a few items like that. He did at some point note that he can only answer medical answers rather than political policy ones, but he still answered a few.

Also a sign that the government have realised that sending out their wafflers wasn't convincing anyone, and poor Whitty has been rolled out.

[frodder]

Pretty much as I see it. This media feasting on anything cack-handed or ill-advised just undermines the efforts of a lot of well meaning people and, in the end, weakens our collective effort. Report it, fine. But saturation coverage of a relatively minor incident was pathetic.

Agree, a non event all round given the wider context and the world wide events taking place. Not worth the attention.

Disagree 100%. The police should have made a proper example and shot the stupid women in the face or something.

If there is a pandemic and 1000 people are dying each day, then it’s overdue this Government got serious.

It’s not a “non-event”, it’s 1 of thousands happening everywhere every day and it’s not going to stop Covid until stupid people wise up.

Shooting women in the face or something (not sure what the something is). Sounds about right in these times and PC Savage can take this advice going forward

[Biffer]

Japan’s National Institute of Infectious Diseases announced they have discovered a new strain of the coronavirus in four passengers that arrived in Japan’s Haneda airport from Brazil.

I wonder when the one that increases the lethality (is that a word) to 20% or something will arrive?

Viruses generally become less lethal over time. It's a more productive evolutionary trait.

[robmatic]

So my Mum back in the UK got the first dose of the vaccine on Saturday, which is a big relief. However, it's been a bit fortunate as she wasn't supposed to be in the first batch to be vaccinated, despite being 75 and somewhat frail. There is a temporary vaccination centre in the market town where she lives and apparently people in the highest risk groups haven't been turning up to their appointments. So, the admin staff have been scrambling around to find alternative recipients before the Pfizer doses have to be thrown away.

[Slick]

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

I think I've already said it, but her overt politicisation of many of her statements have turned people off from her message. As has her thirst for self promotion.

I know you are not hugely into balance, but for a bit of it, I think Jason Leitch has been excellent and got his tone spot on and, in terms of communucation at least, the FM has been good.

[dpedin]

They can effectively close the border to Scotland - that's pretty clear. But they can't change the overall border policy - so they can't have a different immigration policy to UK/Wales. So if London decides that country x can enter without passport control, then Scotland can't determine otherwise. But Scotland can decide to refuse entry to everybody as part of a Pandemic response strategy

Is that not the bit that is under debate - as per the quote I gave above - can Scotland refuse entry to someone travelling from abroad if it is allowed by the UK Gov? Scotland can certainly enforce travel and isolation requirements, etc when they are here but it is not clear if Scotland can stop travel from overseas if it is allowed by UK Gov. The recent SG legislation suggests they can and in effect they have now implemented one in the last few weeks.

Its late but I think reading that we are all in agreement that preventing/quarantining international arrivals could be achieved...in fact I see that the SG has just placed a quarantine requirement on arrivals from Dubia.

Just double checked - SG cannot stop flights arriving, this is up to UK Gov, SG doesn't have authority to do this so in effect cannot ban travel into UK, but the SG can impose local laws re quarantine, etc as said above.

[Raggs]

So my Mum back in the UK got the first dose of the vaccine on Saturday, which is a big relief. However, it's been a bit fortunate as she wasn't supposed to be in the first batch to be vaccinated, despite being 75 and somewhat frail. There is a temporary vaccination centre in the market town where she lives and apparently people in the highest risk groups haven't been turning up to their appointments. So, the admin staff have been scrambling around to find alternative recipients before the Pfizer doses have to be thrown away.

Plenty of cases of this unfortunately, they often start off with all the staff, I know it's been happening here as well. Make sense to get those people who're coming face to face with people to get vaccinated too.

[dpedin]

Pretty much as I see it. This media feasting on anything cack-handed or ill-advised just undermines the efforts of a lot of well meaning people and, in the end, weakens our collective effort. Report it, fine. But saturation coverage of a relatively minor incident was pathetic.

Agree, a non event all round given the wider context and the world wide events taking place. Not worth the attention.

Disagree 100%. The police should have made a proper example and shot the stupid women in the face or something.

If there is a pandemic and 1000 people are dying each day, then it’s overdue this Government got serious.

It’s not a “non-event”, it’s 1 of thousands happening everywhere every day and it’s not going to stop Covid until stupid people wise up.

Sorry, didnt make myself clear - the news story in the papers is a non event not the fact that folk are not following guidance or the law. Shooting in the face a bit extreme however?

[dpedin]

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

I think I've already said it, but her overt politicisation of many of her statements have turned people off from her message. As has her thirst for self promotion.

I know you are not hugely into balance, but for a bit of it, I think Jason Leitch has been excellent and got his tone spot on and, in terms of communucation at least, the FM has been good.

Examples?

[Slick]

Still waiting for Slick to point out the rational for his criticism of Prof Shridhar.

I think I've already said it, but her overt politicisation of many of her statements have turned people off from her message. As has her thirst for self promotion.

I know you are not hugely into balance, but for a bit of it, I think Jason Leitch has been excellent and got his tone spot on and, in terms of communucation at least, the FM has been good.

Examples?

Nope, sorry, not playing that game, you know exactly what I'm talking about.