I suppose if we look back on the Trump years, we won't remember that he kept them out of conflict for his whole term. I thought Iram and North Korea was going to test them but he kept his powder dry.
I suppose that both Iran and North Korea can be regarded as indicators of the success of Trump's foreign policy with regard to their development of nuclear weapons.Enzedder wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:51 amI suppose if we look back on the Trump years, we won't remember that he kept them out of conflict for his whole term. I thought Iram and North Korea was going to test them but he kept his powder dry.
Probably just couldn't be arsed making the decisions but it was one positive.
Are NPR's neolibs starting to get the message now it comes from their Russian poster boy?The Kremlin critic said the precedent will be exploited by the enemies of freedom of speech around the world.
Sorry?Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:45 am Alexei Navalny criticises Trump Twitter ban: https://www.dw.com/en/russian-dissident ... a-56183293
Are NPR's neolibs starting to get the message now it comes from their Russian poster boy?The Kremlin critic said the precedent will be exploited by the enemies of freedom of speech around the world.
Trump has only to walk a few steps to his press room where there are live tv cameras and a room full of journalists.Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:45 am Alexei Navalny criticises Trump Twitter ban: https://www.dw.com/en/russian-dissident ... a-56183293
Are NPR's neolibs starting to get the message now it comes from their Russian poster boy?The Kremlin critic said the precedent will be exploited by the enemies of freedom of speech around the world.
And as Trump noted, he doesn't use social media, he uses Trump media. One would suppose he hasn't banned himself from his own media, whatever it is he's alluding toKiwias wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:17 amTrump has only to walk a few steps to his press room where there are live tv cameras and a room full of journalists.Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:45 am Alexei Navalny criticises Trump Twitter ban: https://www.dw.com/en/russian-dissident ... a-56183293
Are NPR's neolibs starting to get the message now it comes from their Russian poster boy?The Kremlin critic said the precedent will be exploited by the enemies of freedom of speech around the world.
It's hilarious how they're so fixated on twitter despite that. They could even go with a private website, surely, and his cult followers would just share it around social media (and the proper media would report on it as well).Kiwias wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:17 amTrump has only to walk a few steps to his press room where there are live tv cameras and a room full of journalists.Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:45 am Alexei Navalny criticises Trump Twitter ban: https://www.dw.com/en/russian-dissident ... a-56183293
Are NPR's neolibs starting to get the message now it comes from their Russian poster boy?The Kremlin critic said the precedent will be exploited by the enemies of freedom of speech around the world.
Well don't expect the GOP to do anything.Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 3:47 pm They should throw the book at him. Nothing they can do is going to appease his cult and nothing they can do will make them any more riled up, so they may as well lance the boil before this becomes the Beer Hall Putsch before the Reichstag fire, because that's where America is headed if the Democrats get wishy washy and try to work with people who erected a fucking gallows in front of the Capitol.
Lots of silence from the Blue Lives Matter brigade, too.
I imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.
Just interested to know how most Americans feel about this.
And I'd say that is frequently the problem at the highest level of US Politics too !Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:21 pmI imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.
I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicsm rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.
No lifetime pension. (200k per annum)sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:32 pm Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.
He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.
I had just finished watching it and was about to post it here.
They might even get so enraged that they storm the Capitol and try to overthrow a fair and free election to keep their boy in power.dpedin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:03 pm Trump has to be impeached, his close team of enablers need to be prosecuted and the mob who sacked the Capitol need to be incarcerated for a long time. This was a deliberate attempt to overthrow the gov and to stop a legitimate and legal election result being implemented. If they dont do this then it opens the door to future attempts by the likes of Cruz et al. If the argument is dont do it because it will enrage Trump supporters then deal with it, otherwise this is exactly what Trump and his cohort of madmen have won! Now is the time for the US to grow a pair!
I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeachedTB63 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:12 pmNo lifetime pension. (200k per annum)sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:32 pm Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.
He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.
No lifetime Secret Service protection.
No running for President.
No $1 million travel budget.
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:29 amI'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeachedTB63 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:12 pmNo lifetime pension. (200k per annum)sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:32 pm Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.
He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.
No lifetime Secret Service protection.
No running for President.
No $1 million travel budget.
I'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 amRhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:29 amI'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached
Why ?
He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.
He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.
If they want to be treated equally; they should have behaved equally !Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:39 amI'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 amRhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:29 am
I'd probably want to see him continue to get Secret Service protection, though he should be impeached
Why ?
He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.
He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.
What I would be content to limit is the degree to which the protection detail would cover multiple sites and people in transit. And as regards Trump and some of his children there are some simplifications to be had if say they just stick 'em in jail. But for all I'm not impressed by them he did win an election, and not being willing and able to protect them seems a bit too much. I've no issues with removing the pension, travel budget and barring him from running for high office again.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 amIf they want to be treated equally; they should have behaved equally !Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:39 amI'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:32 am
Why ?
He's a billionaire; he can afford his own security; plus, according to him he could shoot a person on 5th Ave, & no one would touch him.
He doesn't need the Secret Service. He isn't the kind of person to cower in a bunker, on a pretend inspection; & then order peaceful protestors tear gassed, so he could hold a bible upside down, & pretend to be tough.
Fuck him & his bastard offspring !
Those are perks resulting from the privilege of holding the position. Grounds for impeachment suggest a betrayal of that privilege. Removal of the perks is fair and reasonable.Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:53 amWhat I would be content to limit is the degree to which the protection detail would cover multiple sites and people in transit. And as regards Trump and some of his children there are some simplifications to be had if say they just stick 'em in jail. But for all I'm not impressed by them he did win an election, and not being willing and able to protect them seems a bit too much. I've no issues with removing the pension, travel budget and barring him from running for high office again.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 amIf they want to be treated equally; they should have behaved equally !Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:39 am
I'd want to seem him and his family protected, not to protect them as such but to protect a former first family, and he should be treated equally with other former presidents. I don't tend to like the suggestion the rich ones can pay their own way because you're starting to head down a path of suggesting only rich people need apply.
Fuck him & his bastard offspring !
Pentagon officials sent memos on January 4 and 5 barring DC guardsmen from receiving ammo and riot gear, engaging with protesters (except for self-defense), sharing equipment with local police, and using surveillance or air assets without explicit approval from President Donald Trump's acting Defense Secretary, Christopher Miller, according to The Post.
The additional bureaucratic hurdle delayed the DC National Guard's response after US Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund asked on Wednesday for 200 guardsmen to provide backup — with guardsmen not arriving until 2 1/2 hours later — according to The Post.
MAGA Lives Matter MoreRinkals wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:39 am https://www.businessinsider.com/pentago ... 021-1?IR=T
Pentagon officials sent memos on January 4 and 5 barring DC guardsmen from receiving ammo and riot gear, engaging with protesters (except for self-defense), sharing equipment with local police, and using surveillance or air assets without explicit approval from President Donald Trump's acting Defense Secretary, Christopher Miller, according to The Post.
The additional bureaucratic hurdle delayed the DC National Guard's response after US Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund asked on Wednesday for 200 guardsmen to provide backup — with guardsmen not arriving until 2 1/2 hours later — according to The Post.
It's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:21 pmI imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.
I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicism rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.
Most importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.TB63 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:12 pmNo lifetime pension. (200k per annum)sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:32 pm Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.
He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.
No lifetime Secret Service protection.
No running for President.
No $1 million travel budget.
Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:07 amIt's a global problem isn't it. People have become so cynical, disinterested and apathetic when it comes to politics that it has put democracies in peril. The USA is particularly vulnerable because of "American Exceptionalism" and their ardent belief that they are, and will for always be, immune to insurrection. Hopefully the events of last week has dissuaded them from that notion.Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:21 pmI imagine you are one of many sharing that sentiment, Fangle.
I have the perception that US citizens maintain an almost innocent faith in their political system under the guise of ‘democracy’. It’s regularly held up as a sort of sacred entity. Politicians regularly invoke the name of democracy in their speeches, etc. I wonder if this latest fiasco from Trump and his enablers will awaken a greater interest or participation in politics within the US? Outside the States, cynicism rules and the crimes of the inept are accepted or ignored.
There have been many actors that have chipping away at the foundations of their democracy and institutions for decades with impunity without being held to account by their peers and the public. The challenge is going to be to do so now, when it is almost to late, as they already have their army of followers and any calls for accountability will just feed into their persecution complex more.
Yeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:33 amMost importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.TB63 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:12 pmNo lifetime pension. (200k per annum)sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:32 pm Impeachment's about more than just petty revenge on Trump. Quite aside from it being warranted regardless of the timeline, if successfull my understanding is that, crucially, it guarantees that he cannot run again and he is not financially supported by the taxpayer in the way that other ex-presidents are.
He also would not have Secret Service protection according to an article I read, so that's another way of stopping him from utilising even more taxpayer money than that he's basically embezzled thus far via Mar A Lago etc.
No lifetime Secret Service protection.
No running for President.
No $1 million travel budget.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.
They claim since Ike. I say, Nixon, Ford and Carter. And lets be honest, the only reason it didn't go further with Iran is that cooler heads prevailed in Tehran. Trump was ready to go full Dr Strangelove there
Nixon was probably the most influential ex- president in that regard. He was very astute on foreign policy and was very free with advice.Saint wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:55 amYeah, former Presidents receive at least some National Security Updates, albeit with some of the more sensitive aspects redacted. The theory is that the current president may want to pick up the phone and ask for an opinion with the very select group of people that can be described as his professional peer group.Blake wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:33 amMost importantly, no National Security Updates, which all former Presidents are apparently getting as well.
Sure, he's not really even attending or paying attention to these while in office, but on principle he shouldn't be getting them as he is a known security risk.
I can't imagine any future President on either side asking Donnie for his thoughts
