The Crusaders 2021 Thread

[wet-socks]

Josh McKay has the potential to be that, I strongly feel he should be converted back to a 10, the position where he and Will Jordan (at 15) for Chch Boys High single-handedly laid waste to the entire Secondary Schools competition.

I heard recently that he’d been picked up in the Crusader’s extended squad..

Chase Tiatia was similarly dominant as a schoolboy no.10. Lots of dominant schoolboy first fives don't cut it a pro level.

In fairness, we have no idea if Josh McKay would cut it as a first-five at pro level, as he has never been given an opportunity to play there.

He was being labelled the next DC when he was coming through, it’s a shame that none of his coaches have had the vision (as yet) to reinstate him in that position.

He just needs to develop his defensive game more which is his current weakness. Having said that, I don’t think you can say Cameron or Burke are any better defenders. They are both pretty small and were dropping off a lot of tackles for Canterbury.

[Carter's Choice]

He was being labelled the next DC when he was coming through, it’s a shame that none of his coaches have had the vision (as yet) to reinstate him in that position.

Or maybe he simply lacks the skills and temperament to play 10 at pro-level? As I said previously, loads of superstar schoolboy 10's have been found wanting at first-five once they hit seniors. Chase Tiatia says hello. As does Damien McKenzie.

[Gumboot]

He was being labelled the next DC when he was coming through, it’s a shame that none of his coaches have had the vision (as yet) to reinstate him in that position.

Or maybe he simply lacks the skills and temperament to play 10 at pro-level? As I said previously, loads of superstar schoolboy 10's have been found wanting at first-five once they hit seniors. Chase Tiatia says hello. As does Damien McKenzie.

And Robbie Robinson, and Tyler Bleyendaal, and Stephen Brett...it's a long list.

[mrbrownstone]

He was being labelled the next DC when he was coming through, it’s a shame that none of his coaches have had the vision (as yet) to reinstate him in that position.

Or maybe he simply lacks the skills and temperament to play 10 at pro-level? As I said previously, loads of superstar schoolboy 10's have been found wanting at first-five once they hit seniors. Chase Tiatia says hello. As does Damien McKenzie.

And Robbie Robinson, and Tyler Bleyendaal, and Stephen Brett...it's a long list.

Surely he could do no worse than Hickey, Garden-Bachop, Cameron, Gatland et al.? It's hardly a vintage crop of 10s at the moment. He may be a letdown at pro level, but I'd love to see him at least get the chance to find out.

[Gumboot]

Or maybe he simply lacks the skills and temperament to play 10 at pro-level? As I said previously, loads of superstar schoolboy 10's have been found wanting at first-five once they hit seniors. Chase Tiatia says hello. As does Damien McKenzie.

And Robbie Robinson, and Tyler Bleyendaal, and Stephen Brett...it's a long list.

Surely he could do no worse than Hickey, Garden-Bachop, Cameron, Gatland et al.? It's hardly a vintage crop of 10s at the moment. He may be a letdown at pro level, but I'd love to see him at least get the chance to find out.

Absolutely, he's worth a shot.

[Carter's Choice]

He was being labelled the next DC when he was coming through, it’s a shame that none of his coaches have had the vision (as yet) to reinstate him in that position.

Or maybe he simply lacks the skills and temperament to play 10 at pro-level? As I said previously, loads of superstar schoolboy 10's have been found wanting at first-five once they hit seniors. Chase Tiatia says hello. As does Damien McKenzie.

And Robbie Robinson, and Tyler Bleyendaal, and Stephen Brett...it's a long list.

And Dan Kirkpatrick. Remember he was also going to be the next Dan Carter?

The reality is that no.10 is a bloody hard position to play at pro level, and being a gun school boy first five is not always an indicator that you can play that position as a pro.

[stemoc]

the only real Next DC was Colin Slade, everyone else were Pretenders, but he effed his career by going to france

[wet-socks]

the only real Next DC was Colin Slade, everyone else were Pretenders, but he effed his career by going to france

Give Richie Mo’unga a few years & we’ll see if he’s in the discussion. That boy has the Midas touch, he’s won 4 titles in just his first 5 seasons of Super Rugby. If he can manage another in the next 3 years (and a World Cup Gold Medal to his name) that conversation may start to veer in his direction..

[stemoc]

the only real Next DC was Colin Slade, everyone else were Pretenders, but he effed his career by going to france

Give Richie Mo’unga a few years & we’ll see if he’s in the discussion. That boy has the Midas touch, he’s won 4 titles in just his first 5 seasons of Super Rugby. If he can manage another in the next 3 years (and a World Cup Gold Medal to his name) that conversation may start to veer in his direction..

yes but Richie was NEVER the next DC, he was always the next Spencer..

[Carter's Choice]

the only real Next DC was Colin Slade, everyone else were Pretenders, but he effed his career by going to france

Give Richie Mo’unga a few years & we’ll see if he’s in the discussion. That boy has the Midas touch, he’s won 4 titles in just his first 5 seasons of Super Rugby. If he can manage another in the next 3 years (and a World Cup Gold Medal to his name) that conversation may start to veer in his direction..

yes but Richie was NEVER the next DC, he was always the next Spencer..

[wet-socks]

Give Richie Mo’unga a few years & we’ll see if he’s in the discussion. That boy has the Midas touch, he’s won 4 titles in just his first 5 seasons of Super Rugby. If he can manage another in the next 3 years (and a World Cup Gold Medal to his name) that conversation may start to veer in his direction..

yes but Richie was NEVER the next DC, he was always the next Spencer..

Did you fellas know that Spencer & Carter were both Maori?

[wet-socks]

Where Scott Robertson's coaching future lies: 'there's going to be a point where I'm just going to say 'thanks' and go another direction'..


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-sc ... direction/

[stemoc]

Where Scott Robertson's coaching future lies: 'there's going to be a point where I'm just going to say 'thanks' and go another direction'..


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-sc ... direction/

Fiji coach Cotter brought crusaders scrums coach to the fiji team and our scrum destroyed the Georgians in our only test, hoping he can bring Razor too by 2023RWC, I know he deserves better but if he is shown to to help an international team get better, his resume would start to look way better than fozzies when it comes to outside soup rugby

[wet-socks]

Where Scott Robertson's coaching future lies: 'there's going to be a point where I'm just going to say 'thanks' and go another direction'..


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-sc ... direction/

Fiji coach Cotter brought crusaders scrums coach to the fiji team and our scrum destroyed the Georgians in our only test, hoping he can bring Razor too by 2023RWC, I know he deserves better but if he is shown to to help an international team get better, his resume would start to look way better than fozzies when it comes to outside soup rugby

Lol, his resume is already looking way better than fozzies..

[stemoc]

Where Scott Robertson's coaching future lies: 'there's going to be a point where I'm just going to say 'thanks' and go another direction'..


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/where-sc ... direction/

Fiji coach Cotter brought crusaders scrums coach to the fiji team and our scrum destroyed the Georgians in our only test, hoping he can bring Razor too by 2023RWC, I know he deserves better but if he is shown to to help an international team get better, his resume would start to look way better than fozzies when it comes to outside soup rugby

Lol, his resume is already looking way better than fozzies..

sure fiji is ranked 11th, he can only takes us up higher, Fozzie in 6 tests for nz took them from 2nd to 3rd lol..

[JPNZ]

Losing an assistant coach so close to the start of the season is a shame.

The Crusaders are likely to start the Super Rugby season one coach short after former Welsh wing Mark Jones opted not to return for the second year of his contact with the defending champions.

Jones became the second assistant in as many years to depart the Crusaders – following Irish first five-eighth Ronan O'Gara who worked alongside Scott Robertson for the 2018-19 seasons before switching to French club La Rochelle.

Jones replaced O'Gara by assuming the defence, positional play and extended squad roles with Canterbury and the Crusaders last season.

Having returned home to Wales with his wife and two children following the conclusion of the Mitre 10 Cup campaign, complications with New Zealand's quarantine protocols, which prevented Jones from gaining a managed isolation ticket until March, and the prospect of joining Worcester Warriors conspired to end his time in Christchurch.

"Once it became clear that I would not be able to go back to Canterbury because of the quarantine situation, things happened very quickly with Warriors," Jones said.

Jones' departure leaves the Crusaders searching for a replacement on the eve of the Super Rugby Aotearoa season which kicks off late next month.

Finding an alternative will be difficult in that timeframe, and New Zealand's border closure effectively rules out the prospect of luring another foreign coach.

Crusaders chief executive Colin Mansbridge says the team is in no rush to rehire and a reallocation of coaching portfolios between the existing team – Robertson, Jason Ryan, Scott Hansen and Andrew Goodman - will take place in the interim.

[stemoc]

can't trust them NH coaches in NZ, first ROG and now MJ

[wet-socks]

Crusaders nab Rene Ranger & Josh McKay ahead of Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021 campaign.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... -crusaders

[wet-socks]

Could this be the start of McKay's newfound development as the Crusader's eventual starting 10 post Mo'unga as I was alluding to a few weeks ago? Is Razor planning to someday reunite the incredibly successful Chch Boy's High 10-15 axis of McKay-Will Jordan?? Quite possibly the two fastest players in NZ right now.. I want this to happen.

[JPNZ]

Ranger in the midfield will be good to watch

[wet-socks]

Ranger in the midfield will be good to watch

bold to assume he'll get game time at all?? Crusaders already have McCleod, Punivai & Fainganuku who can play 13. This seems more like an injury cover / non-playing senior mentor role (like Carter at Blues last year) to me.

[JPNZ]

Ranger in the midfield will be good to watch

bold to assume he'll get game time at all?? Crusaders already have McCleod, Punivai & Fainganuku who can play 13. This seems more like an injury cover / non-playing senior mentor role (like Carter at Blues last year) to me.

Ranger's NPC form would/should see him start ahead of all those 3 IMO.

[Carter's Choice]

I'd be playing Leicester Faingaanuku at 13. But otherwise I think Ranger offers more than Punivai or McLeod (who prefers 12). The problem with Ranger is that at 34, he's a stop-gap measure at best. But with Ennor back in 2022, maybe a stop-gap is all the Crusaders are after?

[JPNZ]

I'd be playing Leicester Faingaanuku at 13. But otherwise I think Ranger offers more than Punivai or McLeod (who prefers 12). The problem with Ranger is that at 34, he's a stop-gap measure at best. But with Ennor back in 2022, maybe a stop-gap is all the Crusaders are after?

Keep in mind Ennor's injury was widely reported as being out for the "whole season" when there was just SRA season. Now there is a trans-tasman comp starting mid may Ennor is expected to be ready for that. So he will play the back end of the 2021 season.

[Kiwias]

Crusaders nab Rene Ranger & Josh McKay ahead of Super Rugby Aotearoa 2021 campaign.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... -crusaders

I am really happy that McKay has a SR contract. It will be interesting to see if he can convert sparkling Mitre 10 Cup form into similar form in Super Rugby.

[mrbrownstone]

Both handy signings, particularly McKay. I

Not sure how we'll use Ranger, but an experienced former All Black won't go astray. I think he should start or miss the 23 - wouldn't want him taking a bench development spot from a younger player - but at worst it's a great depth signing.

I'd still start the season with:

11. Jordan
12. Goodhue
13. Faiinganuku
14. Reece
15. Havili

22. Burke
23. McKay

Agree with AC that Ranger could be next in line ahead of McLeod or Punivai though.

[Carter's Choice]

Can Rene Ranger play 12? I seem to remember him playing inside Anthony Tuitavake for the Blues. If he can play 12 then perhaps Goodhue could switch to his best position of centre? In saying that, if Ian Foster sees Goodhue as a no.12 for the AB's then an argument could be made to leave Goodhue at second five. However, no player is ever guaranteed an AB jersey, so IMO Robertson should play Goodhue at centre. If Foster wants to move him to 12 then that's his call.

[wet-socks]

Can Rene Ranger play 12? I seem to remember him playing inside Anthony Tuitavake for the Blues. If he can play 12 then perhaps Goodhue could switch to his best position of centre? In saying that, if Ian Foster sees Goodhue as a no.12 for the AB's then an argument could be made to leave Goodhue at second five. However, no player is ever guaranteed an AB jersey, so IMO Robertson should play Goodhue at centre. If Foster wants to move him to 12 then that's his call.

Wasn't Ranger & Goodhue.. Northland's starting midfield in 2017?

Maybe Robertson is planning to re-unite the mighty Taniwha duo.

[Gumboot]

I am really happy that McKay has a SR contract. It will be interesting to see if he can convert sparkling Mitre 10 Cup form into similar form in Super Rugby.

Yep, I was very surprised that he initially missed out on a contract.

[Carter's Choice]

Josh McKay is a good signing for us given the season ending injury to George Bridge. McKay plays a similar role, able to cover wing and fullback. It will be hard work for McKay to break into the starting XV given the depth the Crusaders have in their outside backs, but as we know Super Rugby Aotearoa is a battle of attrition, and injuries are guaranteed. A lot of chat in the off season about McKay being denied the opportunity to play at no.10. Given the Crusaders have the weakest depth of any franchise at first five, if he can't force himself into contention for first five in CHCH than he won't be able to do it anywhere. I won't be holding my breath to see him wearing the no.10 or 22 jerseys.

[wet-socks]

Josh McKay is a good signing for us given the season ending injury to George Bridge. McKay plays a similar role, able to cover wing and fullback. It will be hard work for McKay to break into the starting XV given the depth the Crusaders have in their outside backs, but as we know Super Rugby Aotearoa is a battle of attrition, and injuries are guaranteed. A lot of chat in the off season about McKay being denied the opportunity to play at no.10. Given the Crusaders have the weakest depth of any franchise at first five, if he can't force himself into contention for first five in CHCH than he won't be able to do it anywhere. I won't be holding my breath to see him wearing the no.10 or 22 jerseys.

If Robertson selects Cameron as the back-up 10 ahead of McKay in Round 1... Then I might have to consider putting together a decent highlights reel from the 2015 NZSS's competition archives of McKay & Will Jordan singlehandedly carving up all their opposition teams together & email it directly to Crusaders HQ.

[Carter's Choice]

Josh McKay is a good signing for us given the season ending injury to George Bridge. McKay plays a similar role, able to cover wing and fullback. It will be hard work for McKay to break into the starting XV given the depth the Crusaders have in their outside backs, but as we know Super Rugby Aotearoa is a battle of attrition, and injuries are guaranteed. A lot of chat in the off season about McKay being denied the opportunity to play at no.10. Given the Crusaders have the weakest depth of any franchise at first five, if he can't force himself into contention for first five in CHCH than he won't be able to do it anywhere. I won't be holding my breath to see him wearing the no.10 or 22 jerseys.

If Robertson selects Cameron as the back-up 10 ahead of McKay in Round 1... Then I might have to consider putting together a decent highlights reel from the 2015 NZSS's competition archives of McKay & Will Jordan singlehandedly carving up all their opposition teams together & email it directly to Crusaders HQ.

Chase Tiatia carved up every school he played against as a 1st XV first five.

[JPNZ]

Tamati Ellison joins as Assistant to replace Mark Jones

Former All Black Tamati Ellison has joined the Crusaders coaching staff for the 2021 Super Rugby season.

Ellison, 37, will fill the coaching position vacated by Welshman Mark Jones, and will assist with team defence and position-specific player development. It is the same position role Andrew Goodman did before getting elevated to assistant when Ronan O’Gara and Brad Mooar departed.

He brings a wealth of Super Rugby knowledge to the Crusaders coaching team, having represented the Blues, Hurricanes, Highlanders, and Melbourne Rebels as a player.

The four-test All Black was most recently a player-coach in the Japanese Top League with Kurita Water Gush, and was part of the Wellington Lions coaching group for the 2020 NPC season.

[mrbrownstone]

Josh McKay is a good signing for us given the season ending injury to George Bridge. McKay plays a similar role, able to cover wing and fullback. It will be hard work for McKay to break into the starting XV given the depth the Crusaders have in their outside backs, but as we know Super Rugby Aotearoa is a battle of attrition, and injuries are guaranteed. A lot of chat in the off season about McKay being denied the opportunity to play at no.10. Given the Crusaders have the weakest depth of any franchise at first five, if he can't force himself into contention for first five in CHCH than he won't be able to do it anywhere. I won't be holding my breath to see him wearing the no.10 or 22 jerseys.

I remember a few seasons ago you were advocating Josh McKay play 10 for Canterbury ahead of Cameron, why the change of tune? Surely it's worth at least seeing how he goes, given our lack of depth at 10. He must have a higher potential ceiling at 10 than Brett Cameron or David Havili.

[wet-socks]

Tamati Ellison joins as Assistant to replace Mark Jones

Former All Black Tamati Ellison has joined the Crusaders coaching staff for the 2021 Super Rugby season.

Ellison, 37, will fill the coaching position vacated by Welshman Mark Jones, and will assist with team defence and position-specific player development. It is the same position role Andrew Goodman did before getting elevated to assistant when Ronan O’Gara and Brad Mooar departed.

He brings a wealth of Super Rugby knowledge to the Crusaders coaching team, having represented the Blues, Hurricanes, Highlanders, and Melbourne Rebels as a player.

The four-test All Black was most recently a player-coach in the Japanese Top League with Kurita Water Gush, and was part of the Wellington Lions coaching group for the 2020 NPC season.

Not sure about this appointment, yet another run-of-the-mill former player who's only turned to coaching recently, and has only had one full-time coaching role so far (with Wellington Lions in 2020) & they finished that season 2nd to last in the Premiership.

[Carter's Choice]

Josh McKay is a good signing for us given the season ending injury to George Bridge. McKay plays a similar role, able to cover wing and fullback. It will be hard work for McKay to break into the starting XV given the depth the Crusaders have in their outside backs, but as we know Super Rugby Aotearoa is a battle of attrition, and injuries are guaranteed. A lot of chat in the off season about McKay being denied the opportunity to play at no.10. Given the Crusaders have the weakest depth of any franchise at first five, if he can't force himself into contention for first five in CHCH than he won't be able to do it anywhere. I won't be holding my breath to see him wearing the no.10 or 22 jerseys.

I remember a few seasons ago you were advocating Josh McKay play 10 for Canterbury ahead of Cameron, why the change of tune? Surely it's worth at least seeing how he goes, given our lack of depth at 10. He must have a higher potential ceiling at 10 than Brett Cameron or David Havili.

I honestly don't remember doing that, but if I did it would have been because I don't rate Brett Cameron at all, and McKay came into the squad as a highly rated schoolboy 10. I'd probably rather see Harry Allan at 10 than Cameron.

The reality though is that McKay hasn't played 10 since high school, so isn't really an option any more. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, lots of brilliant schoolboy 10's never make it as a first five at pro level. Chase Tiatia is a classic example of this. He was a freakish first five as a schoolboy.

[mrbrownstone]

Josh McKay is a good signing for us given the season ending injury to George Bridge. McKay plays a similar role, able to cover wing and fullback. It will be hard work for McKay to break into the starting XV given the depth the Crusaders have in their outside backs, but as we know Super Rugby Aotearoa is a battle of attrition, and injuries are guaranteed. A lot of chat in the off season about McKay being denied the opportunity to play at no.10. Given the Crusaders have the weakest depth of any franchise at first five, if he can't force himself into contention for first five in CHCH than he won't be able to do it anywhere. I won't be holding my breath to see him wearing the no.10 or 22 jerseys.

I remember a few seasons ago you were advocating Josh McKay play 10 for Canterbury ahead of Cameron, why the change of tune? Surely it's worth at least seeing how he goes, given our lack of depth at 10. He must have a higher potential ceiling at 10 than Brett Cameron or David Havili.

I honestly don't remember doing that, but if I did it would have been because I don't rate Brett Cameron at all, and McKay came into the squad as a highly rated schoolboy 10. I'd probably rather see Harry Allan at 10 than Cameron.

The reality though is that McKay hasn't played 10 since high school, so isn't really an option any more. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, lots of brilliant schoolboy 10's never make it as a first five at pro level. Chase Tiatia is a classic example of this. He was a freakish first five as a schoolboy.

Point taken. He's only 23 though, so not exactly that far out of high school - it's not as if he hasn't played there in a decade, I doubt he's forgotten everything. Would hardly be the first time we've seen a 10 start off their professional career in a different position before moving in either (Carter, Larkham, Anscombe, JOC, Mo'unga even debuted for Canterbury at fullback just off the top of my head, but heaps of other examples).

I don't think he's the second coming, but given his schoolboy form & partnership with Jordan, and the fact that our other options are Cameron, Burke, and Havili, surely it's worth at least finding out? How handy would it be to have McKay on the bench covering 10, wing, fullback?

[Trapper]

I always though McKay was a bit of a weedy sort of kid but a pic on my Facebook feed says he’s 95kg and he looks like he’s got a bit of a rig. Highlanders fans are spewing.

[stemoc]

I always though McKay was a bit of a weedy sort of kid but a pic on my Facebook feed says he’s 95kg and he looks like he’s got a bit of a rig. Highlanders fans are spewing.

yep saw that ...lol ..what a unit...

[wet-socks]

Why Scott Robertson wanted a fourth assistant:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... -assistant

"Personally, [a fourth assistant] allows me to step back a bit and see the big picture stuff, rather than be hands-on on the field,” Robertson said.