The Brexit Thread

[tc27]

Many of the companies I work with are doing it for services; they're setting up offices so that they can provide the technical support they give for their products. Because if you think that exporting goods is complex, you must not have looked at the services...

Ok but again that works both ways...and again I am not saying its a good thing as its just drives up costs for consumers.

As an aside if Scottish independence transpires do you think Scotland will remain in a customs union and single market with the rest of the former UK to avoid these issues.? Because if not all these issues will arise and effect far more parts of the Scottish economy than brexit (3 or 4 times as much if we go on trade in goods - services probably more).

The difference with the works both ways thing us that it doesn't work equally in both directions. European companies would be setting up an office to access one country, UK companies would do it to access 27. For UK companies its a necessity, euro companies may choose to engage less with the UK market.

The UK market is 65 million consumers - probably worth setting up a modest subsidiary for.

As I said a friend works for an obscure (ive never heard of them) German boiler maker who have done it.

[Biffer]

Ok but again that works both ways...and again I am not saying its a good thing as its just drives up costs for consumers.

As an aside if Scottish independence transpires do you think Scotland will remain in a customs union and single market with the rest of the former UK to avoid these issues.? Because if not all these issues will arise and effect far more parts of the Scottish economy than brexit (3 or 4 times as much if we go on trade in goods - services probably more).

The difference with the works both ways thing us that it doesn't work equally in both directions. European companies would be setting up an office to access one country, UK companies would do it to access 27. For UK companies its a necessity, euro companies may choose to engage less with the UK market.

The UK market is 65 million consumers - probably worth setting up a modest subsidiary for.

As I said a friend works for an obscure (ive never heard of them) German boiler maker who have done it.

For some yes, for some no.

You can't say it's as necessary (or as urgent) for a company with access to 440 million consumers to try to access 65 millions of consumers as it is for a company with access to 65 million consumers to try to access 440 million. Or for a company that's potentially losing a few percentage points of its revenue compared to one that's potentially losing 30%.


An example of one company doesn't prove your point.

[tc27]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

[Biffer]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

Unfortunately I was told in commercial confidence so I can’t share names. My point here is that very ‘European companies will have to do the same’ argument assumes an equal relationship between the UK and EU. It’s not. GDP of the EU is six or seven times that of the UK. They have more power than us, as evidenced by the deal.

[shereblue]

Its all about Sovereignty init!

Tax dodging, it was always about tax dodging.

Naay, that was always a bit of a myth. The tax avoidance regs for Europe were based on the ones already in effect in the UK. Would've made hardly any difference.

Not sure that these matters are so black and white.

Pinsent Masons tax bod here reporting that CONTRARY to previous claims, there will no longer be any disclosure obligations to the EU regarding CROSS BORDER schemes.

https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/n ... ost-brexit

[tc27]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

Unfortunately I was told in commercial confidence so I can’t share names. My point here is that very ‘European companies will have to do the same’ argument assumes an equal relationship between the UK and EU. It’s not. GDP of the EU is six or seven times that of the UK. They have more power than us, as evidenced by the deal.

Its not about an 'equal relationship' its about wether the sales or potential sales in the UK are worth the time and expense of setting up a presence here. Successful firms have such arrangements to export outside the EEA including much smaller and less affluent markets than the UKs.

[Biffer]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

Unfortunately I was told in commercial confidence so I can’t share names. My point here is that very ‘European companies will have to do the same’ argument assumes an equal relationship between the UK and EU. It’s not. GDP of the EU is six or seven times that of the UK. They have more power than us, as evidenced by the deal.

Its not about an 'equal relationship' its about wether the sales or potential sales in the UK are worth the time and expense of setting up a presence here. Successful firms have such arrangements to export outside the EEA including much smaller and less affluent markets than the UKs.

Of course it’s about potential sales. The point about the size of markets means it’s far more likely to happen in one direction than the other. You have more potential sales into a bigger market. Uk companies are far more likely to set up European subsidiaries than vice versa. If you can’t see that, then you’re being a bit blinkered.

[Insane_Homer]

[Insane_Homer]

"Global Britain" struggling to trade with.... itself.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55818519

Lough Neagh eel fishermen will have to find new markets for a fifth of their catch due to Brexit and the operation of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

It means finding new buyers for 50 tonnes of eels, worth £500,000, just months before the start of this year's season.

The fish would traditionally have gone to Billingsgate Market in London and been sold as jellied eels.

But the complexities of Brexit mean that trade is no longer possible.

It comes as restocking Lough Neagh with juvenile fish becomes more complex and costly.

[Hal Jordan]

A surfeit of lampreys?

[Saint]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

just as a point, Veissmann is not so obscure. It's just that they haven't historically had much success in the UK market, but they've been making a huge push over the ast 5-10 years and are probably regarded as the highest quality boiler range in the UK by most plumbers

[dpedin]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

just as a point, Veissmann is not so obscure. It's just that they haven't historically had much success in the UK market, but they've been making a huge push over the ast 5-10 years and are probably regarded as the highest quality boiler range in the UK by most plumbers

Top three according to Which - Valliant and Worcester Bosch are the others - I am not a sad person for having that info at my fingertips, just that I need a new boiler and am doing a bit of research. Now if folk want to know which model in each range is best for a 3 bed/2 bath modern flat .....

[Saint]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

just as a point, Veissmann is not so obscure. It's just that they haven't historically had much success in the UK market, but they've been making a huge push over the ast 5-10 years and are probably regarded as the highest quality boiler range in the UK by most plumbers

Top three according to Which - Valliant and Worcester Bosch are the others - I am not a sad person for having that info at my fingertips, just that I need a new boiler and am doing a bit of research. Now if folk want to know which model in each range is best for a 3 bed/2 bath modern flat .....

Been having a bit of trouble with my Vaillant recently so have been having a decent chat with a few plumbers. Vailant have a bad habit of sourcing cheap components which fail in order to save a few pennies - the air valve in my case recently which resulted in a leak costing a few hundred to repair, all for the sake of a part where the higher quality version cost £1 extra. They also use some plastics in high pressure/high temp area which have a bad habit fo becoming very brittle over time

Engineers hate repairing WBs because they don't finish the metal edges. These things are often so sharp that they cut through safety gloves.

The Weissmans though are apparently rock solid with no corner cutting. Incredibly low failure rates

[tc27]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

just as a point, Veissmann is not so obscure. It's just that they haven't historically had much success in the UK market, but they've been making a huge push over the ast 5-10 years and are probably regarded as the highest quality boiler range in the UK by most plumbers

Yes my mate says they are the best because they developed and build inhouse a stainless steel heat exchanger whereas the other big brands use cheaper ones all from the same factory in France. Also come with a ten year guarantee.

[dpedin]

Biff - no of course it doesn't and I cannot prove that some companies might decide its not worth it (however I suspect the UK is a large enough market for most to try or at least go into partnership with a UK firm).

Also I hate people claiming to have first hand information and not being specific so I am not going to do it myself - the firm I am talking about is Viessmann Vitodens.

just as a point, Veissmann is not so obscure. It's just that they haven't historically had much success in the UK market, but they've been making a huge push over the ast 5-10 years and are probably regarded as the highest quality boiler range in the UK by most plumbers

Yes my mate says they are the best because they developed and build inhouse a stainless steel heat exchanger whereas the other big brands use cheaper ones all from the same factory in France. Also come with a ten year guarantee.

Good to know - might change my choice of boiler now!

[tc27]

The EU has activated article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol to enable its vaccine export controls....implications of this being done so soon and by the EU remain to be seen.

Might well be a case for the UK now having the cover to do the same to ease some supply issues.

[Openside]

just as a point, Veissmann is not so obscure. It's just that they haven't historically had much success in the UK market, but they've been making a huge push over the ast 5-10 years and are probably regarded as the highest quality boiler range in the UK by most plumbers

Yes my mate says they are the best because they developed and build inhouse a stainless steel heat exchanger whereas the other big brands use cheaper ones all from the same factory in France. Also come with a ten year guarantee.

Good to know - might change my choice of boiler now!

Have you let your wife in on it?

[Caley_Red]

The EU has activated article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol to enable its vaccine export controls....implications of this being done so soon and by the EU remain to be seen.

Might well be a case for the UK now having the cover to do the same to ease some supply issues.

I'm astonished by how little outrage this has piqued amongst the denizens of this thread. If the UK government had done this I expect it would have spawned 10+ pages

[JM2K6]

The EU has activated article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol to enable its vaccine export controls....implications of this being done so soon and by the EU remain to be seen.

Might well be a case for the UK now having the cover to do the same to ease some supply issues.

I'm astonished by how little outrage this has piqued amongst the denizens of this thread. If the UK government had done this I expect it would have spawned 10+ pages

Well, it might be because a) everyone agrees the EU fucked up, b) nothing actually happened because they revoked it almost immediately, c) the UK threatened the exact same fucking thing 2 weeks ago, d) with Brexit having happened, we're far more concerned with what the UK does now than what the EU does, strangely enough, and e) there were pages of discussion on it in the Coronavirus thread.

But hey, REMOANERS BAD.

[dpedin]

The EU has activated article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol to enable its vaccine export controls....implications of this being done so soon and by the EU remain to be seen.

Might well be a case for the UK now having the cover to do the same to ease some supply issues.

I'm astonished by how little outrage this has piqued amongst the denizens of this thread. If the UK government had done this I expect it would have spawned 10+ pages

Well, it might be because a) everyone agrees the EU fucked up, b) nothing actually happened because they revoked it almost immediately, c) the UK threatened the exact same fucking thing 2 weeks ago, d) with Brexit having happened, we're far more concerned with what the UK does now than what the EU does, strangely enough, and e) there were pages of discussion on it in the Coronavirus thread.

But hey, REMOANERS BAD.

Yep - about sums it up!

[yermum]

https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/support/eu-shipping

shits fucked I cant ride my bike as no cunt has stock of a part I need and Ritchey wont send stuff to the UK.

I am going to go and kick Bojo in the nuts.

[fishfoodie]

https://eu.ritcheylogic.com/eu_en/support/eu-shipping

shits fucked I cant ride my bike as no cunt has stock of a part I need and Ritchey wont send stuff to the UK.

I am going to go and kick Bojo in the nuts.

Is the part bigger than a watch ?

If not, then ....



Otherwise you're probably going to have to convert to Shimano

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKBN2A312N

UK begs EU for Brexit grace period extension to 2023, BBC reports

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has begged for an extension until 2023 of a grace period on checks that would be conducted on trade moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom to soften the Brexshit impact on the province, the BBC reported.

Political editor Tory Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Secretary Michael Gove had written to the European Commission’s vice president, Maros Sefcovic, to plead for urgent political solutions.

As part of the Brexit divorce deal, the two sides agreed a three-month grace period on checks on food goods being moved by supermarkets and some wholesale groups from Britain to Northern Ireland, to ease the impact of the post-Brexshit predicted fuckup.

Reporting by Kate Holton; editing by Insane Homer

[Sandstorm]

[fishfoodie]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKBN2A312N

UK begs EU for Brexit grace period extension to 2023, BBC reports

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has begged for an extension until 2023 of a grace period on checks that would be conducted on trade moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom to soften the Brexshit impact on the province, the BBC reported.

Political editor Tory Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Secretary Michael Gove had written to the European Commission’s vice president, Maros Sefcovic, to plead for urgent political solutions.

As part of the Brexit divorce deal, the two sides agreed a three-month grace period on checks on food goods being moved by supermarkets and some wholesale groups from Britain to Northern Ireland, to ease the impact of the post-Brexshit predicted fuckup.

Reporting by Kate Holton; editing by Insane Homer

I'd really hate to be the Tory Minister responsible for preparing the UK for Brexit, or one of the ones who has described these long term consequences as, "teething problems"; or possibly even the unprincipled arsehole who told NI businesses to throw any paperwork in the bin .....

Perhaps if the Tories hadn't set their face against a further extension, they wouldn't be in this shit ?

Perhaps if the residents of Belfast South hadn't voted for knuckle dragging morons who campaigned for a much harder Brexit than the soft one that NI is currently fucked under; they wouldn't now be suffering ?

Hear that flapping ?

It's those chickens coming home to roost. Live with it !

[dpedin]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKBN2A312N

UK begs EU for Brexit grace period extension to 2023, BBC reports

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has begged for an extension until 2023 of a grace period on checks that would be conducted on trade moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom to soften the Brexshit impact on the province, the BBC reported.

Political editor Tory Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Secretary Michael Gove had written to the European Commission’s vice president, Maros Sefcovic, to plead for urgent political solutions.

As part of the Brexit divorce deal, the two sides agreed a three-month grace period on checks on food goods being moved by supermarkets and some wholesale groups from Britain to Northern Ireland, to ease the impact of the post-Brexshit predicted fuckup.

Reporting by Kate Holton; editing by Insane Homer

I'd really hate to be the Tory Minister responsible for preparing the UK for Brexit, or one of the ones who has described these long term consequences as, "teething problems"; or possibly even the unprincipled arsehole who told NI businesses to throw any paperwork in the bin .....

Perhaps if the Tories hadn't set their face against a further extension, they wouldn't be in this shit ?

Perhaps if the residents of Belfast South hadn't voted for knuckle dragging morons who campaigned for a much harder Brexit than the soft one that NI is currently fucked under; they wouldn't now be suffering ?

Hear that flapping ?

It's those chickens coming home to roost. Live with it !

Its almost as if the Gov and their Brexit Ultras hadn't read the deal, or understood it, or debated it in Parliament or even allowed for the Select Committee to examine it? How the feck do we expect these poor souls to now come to terms with the shit deal the voted for? Give them a break, its sovereignty innit!

[dpedin]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brit ... SKBN2A312N

UK begs EU for Brexit grace period extension to 2023, BBC reports

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has begged for an extension until 2023 of a grace period on checks that would be conducted on trade moving between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom to soften the Brexshit impact on the province, the BBC reported.

Political editor Tory Laura Kuenssberg said Cabinet Office Secretary Michael Gove had written to the European Commission’s vice president, Maros Sefcovic, to plead for urgent political solutions.

As part of the Brexit divorce deal, the two sides agreed a three-month grace period on checks on food goods being moved by supermarkets and some wholesale groups from Britain to Northern Ireland, to ease the impact of the post-Brexshit predicted fuckup.

Reporting by Kate Holton; editing by Insane Homer

I'd really hate to be the Tory Minister responsible for preparing the UK for Brexit, or one of the ones who has described these long term consequences as, "teething problems"; or possibly even the unprincipled arsehole who told NI businesses to throw any paperwork in the bin .....

Perhaps if the Tories hadn't set their face against a further extension, they wouldn't be in this shit ?

Perhaps if the residents of Belfast South hadn't voted for knuckle dragging morons who campaigned for a much harder Brexit than the soft one that NI is currently fucked under; they wouldn't now be suffering ?

Hear that flapping ?

It's those chickens coming home to roost. Live with it !

Its almost as if the Gov and their Brexit Ultras hadn't read the deal, or understood it, or debated it in Parliament or even allowed for the Select Committee to examine it? How the feck do we expect these poor souls to now come to terms with the shit deal the voted for? Give them a break, its sovereignty innit!

[Sandstorm]

Tory MPs don't care, they hugely increased their seats in Parliament on the back of this stinking turd.

[Hal Jordan]

And are merrily lining the pockets of their chums, whilst the Cabinet gets on with the important job of centralising power and stripping away accountability.

[I like neeps]

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-boris ... sf-twitter



We're open for business! But those terms of business will be unilaterally overridden by us because we didn't read the terms of business we agreed to.

[fishfoodie]

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-boris ... sf-twitter



We're open for business! But those terms of business will be unilaterally overridden by us because we didn't read the terms of business we agreed to.

He's just lying again; to shut up the DUP, & quieten some of ERG nutjobs.

Even if he doesn't realize himself, there are plenty of people to explain to him; that; if the UK invokes Art 16; the EU can respond in kind, & in places that will fuck any remaining UK exports to the EU, & bring the ongoing talks on services etc, to a crashing halt.

As the Bimbot repeatedly asked us; How much is NIs economy worth ?

How many Tory MPs does it elect, is probably the better question.

And further; if the UK doesn't rapidly reimpose the agreed systems in NI Ports, allbeit under tightened security; the EU will go to court; because the UK is ignoring its treaty obligations, & those will lead to trade sanctions too.

[fishfoodie]

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-boris ... sf-twitter



We're open for business! But those terms of business will be unilaterally overridden by us because we didn't read the terms of business we agreed to.

He's just lying again; to shut up the DUP, & quieten some of ERG nutjobs.

Even if he doesn't realize himself, there are plenty of people to explain to him; that; if the UK invokes Art 16; the EU can respond in kind, & in places that will fuck any remaining UK exports to the EU, & bring the ongoing talks on services etc, to a crashing halt.

As the Bimbot repeatedly asked us; How much is NIs economy worth ?

How many Tory MPs does it elect, is probably the better question.

And further; if the UK doesn't rapidly reimpose the agreed systems in NI Ports, allbeit under tightened security; the EU will go to court; because the UK is ignoring its treaty obligations, & those will lead to trade sanctions too.

No, I'm not Tony Connelly; but then again, predicting the behavior of the fuckwits directing the Brexit ship, isn't particularly taxing.

EU sources have expressed concern over the tone of Michael Gove's letter to his European Commission counterpart on changes the UK is demanding to the Northern Ireland Protocol.

The UK cabinet minister has demanded sweeping and swift changes to the Northern Ireland Protocol as the fallout continues from last week's move by the Commission to trigger Article 16 of the Protocol over the issue of exports of Covid-19 vaccines.

EU sources have said the letter resembled an ultimatum to the EU, as tension mounts in Northern Ireland over the impact of the protocol, which has meant customs and food safety formalities on goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

Officials have also said that the UK has still not facilitated access for the EU to its customs IT system, so that EU officials are able to monitor in real time the flow of goods across the Irish Sea.

The UK and EU signed a partnership agreement on 17 December in which London agreed to grant the EU access to HMRC's data system.

In return, the EU agreed to facilitate a trusted trader scheme that simplified customs formalities. However, EU sources say access has not yet been facilitated.

Officials also say that the UK has yet to make use of other flexibilities, such as data generated when goods are shipped by ferry from Northern Ireland to Great Britain.

Such data was envisaged as providing equivalent information as so-called exit summary declarations, which are normally required when goods leave the EU's customs union.

The UK could have had May's deal; they could have had an extension; when the bumblecunt stuck his; "Over-Ready", label on the original EU proposal, which would require major restructuring in NI.

Instead they blocked the EU's plans to setup the agreed inspection regime; & told the DUP Businesses, they could throw their paperwork in the bin.

The only reason there's even this temporary grace period; is because neither side realized the impact of immediately blocking chilled meats going from a 3rd country to the EU ..... the exactly same problem that's currently fucking the shellfish business between GB, & the EU; & for exactly the same reason; the UK Government never, honestly, explained to their citizens the consequences of becoming a 3rd Country when attempting to import to the EU.

[Rinkals]

Is that because Gove believes that the UK "holds all the cards"?

[Insane_Homer]

Is that because Gove believes that the UK "holds all the cards"?

What happened to "Throw the forms in the bin?"

[Hal Jordan]

Is that because Gove believes that the UK "holds all the cards"?

I think it's because he knows the faithful will believe it is the EU's fault and that crises allow lots of shit to be waved through or go under the radar.

[dpedin]

This is now the pattern of behaviour for this Gov - pretend to negotiate hard for a deal, wait till last minute and hope the other side folds, they dont, sign up to a deal, any deal no matter how bad it is in order to hit an arbitrary deadline, claim victory then demonise the other side when the impact of the deal becomes real and then try and renegotiate usually from a position of weakness but do the old chest thumping and chuck in a bit of xenophobia and jingoistic fervour. Of course it is doomed to failure and if it achieves anything it is a short term pyrrhic victory with lots of flag waving. Its all out of the Trump/Bannon handbook! It will however take some time to recover from once the Blonde Bumblecunt and his Brexit Ultras have disappeared and the grown ups come back into power. What a feckin shitshow!

[Rinkals]

This is now the pattern of behaviour for this Gov - pretend to negotiate hard for a deal, wait till last minute and hope the other side folds, they dont, sign up to a deal, any deal no matter how bad it is in order to hit an arbitrary deadline, claim victory then demonise the other side when the impact of the deal becomes real and then try and renegotiate usually from a position of weakness but do the old chest thumping and chuck in a bit of xenophobia and jingoistic fervour. Of course it is doomed to failure and if it achieves anything it is a short term pyrrhic victory with lots of flag waving. Its all out of the Trump/Bannon handbook! It will however take some time to recover from once the Blonde Bumblecunt and his Brexit Ultras have disappeared and the grown ups come back into power. What a feckin shitshow!

Nah.

Project Fear.

Everything is going swimmingly.

The Sky didn't fall in.

The doom-sayers have all been proved wrong.

[Insane_Homer]

[Sandstorm]

Close the borders to holiday makers who went home to South Africa at Christmas for 2 weeks, you stupid cnut!! Or Europeans who head back home every 3rd Friday from Stanstead. Or skiers sneaking into the Alps.

[Rinkals]

Close the borders to holiday makers who went home to South Africa at Christmas for 2 weeks, you stupid cnut!! Or Europeans who head back home every 3rd Friday from Stanstead. Or skiers sneaking into the Alps.

Yeah.

My cousin returned to the UK from here on the 2nd January.

He would have been quite happy to endure an enforced stay.