F**k all you fashionistas who buy SUVs

[shereblue]

To be fair any car with decent winter clothing will get through ... even my old C4 can handle snow...

I suspect you don’t see much deep snow. Or steep hills.

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

[Sandstorm]

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

Indeed. Snow tyres are fucking useless on the 2wd drive car in autumn when you try to get your horsebox across a muddy field.

[laurent]

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

Indeed. Snow tyres are fucking useless on the 2wd drive car in autumn when you try to get your horsebox across a muddy field.

PS one of the reason to weaponise a car is horsebox... carl gustav or Milan would be just fine

[Torquemada 1420]

I suspect you don’t see much deep snow. Or steep hills.

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

[clydecloggie]

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

[shereblue]

Lived in Switzerland winter tyres / pneu neige are mandatory there in winter and sufficient in 99 % situation (add chains if required) a big fat 4x4 is not needed

This is what I was talking about "winter clothing".

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

Absolument.

[shereblue]

This makes perfect sense for 99.9% of drivers.

It's a fallacy that Winter tyres are specifically for snow. If anything, in deep snow they are not much more use (you need chains then) BUT they are significantly better at low temperatures and on moderately snowy and icy road conditions.

And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

AWD with winter tyres for west coasters. With a pair of snow chains in the boot if you like to be first in the office on a rare heavy snow day.

SUV not normally required. 2-3 days every other year, then I concede SUV envy on the Surrey back roads when we have light flooding.

[Torquemada 1420]

And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

I'd like to see those studies because I'd suggest they are nonsense. Winter tyres are better in all conditions in low temperatures, end of!

Here's one
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice/winter-tyres

They are better at clearing standing water, too, so winter tyres are also safer than summer tyres when it’s raining.

and it's what I'd expect because the tread patterns are much deeper.

I suspect the problem is here
http://whichtyres.com/2013/10/winter-ty ... labelling/

FWIW, as stated, I have run Winters on my cars for decades and there is always that tricky decision in the UK when to switch: if you run Winters at 11C or above (typically) for any length of time, you f**k them. So I know what it's like driving both variants on waterlogged roads and the Winters have always been miles better.

[Niegs]

All this talk of pretend SUVs has me thinking I should pop by this local dealership...

[Hal Jordan]

Ideal for popping down to the shops!

[Torquemada 1420]

Ideal for popping down to the shops!

Necessary in the US in order to rack all those M16s.

[Woddy]

Not about proper, hateful SUVs but this seems as good a place as any...

My beloved Subaru Legacy is finally on its last bearings after 17 years and I cannot work out what to replace it with. I've got rather used to the AWD and solid handling in all conditions, need storage space and a bit of a workhorse (big kids, dogs, packing logs etc) and don't want a wide SUV as I drive along narrow Surrey lanes most of the time. The new-style Subarus look and feel horrific by comparison and even the most recent Outbacks and Legacies are now fairly old.

Any ideas? Expecting to delve within the 2nd-hand market: I don't have much money (any, really).

[Sandstorm]

Not about proper, hateful SUVs but this seems as good a place as any...

My beloved Subaru Legacy is finally on its last bearings after 17 years and I cannot work out what to replace it with. I've got rather used to the AWD and solid handling in all conditions, need storage space and a bit of a workhorse (big kids, dogs, packing logs etc) and don't want a wide SUV as I drive along narrow Surrey lanes most of the time. The new-style Subarus look and feel horrific by comparison and even the most recent Outbacks and Legacies are now fairly old.

Any ideas? Expecting to delve within the 2nd-hand market: I don't have much money (any, really).

Surely the answer is: another Subaru Legacy. You'll get a cracking used 2012-2014 model for around £6k.

Or Volvo V70 AWD.

[Openside]

If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

[GogLais]

If they were serious about promoting EV’s the reduce the price,
A Kona EV is over $30 000 more than the petrol version, and while people will say...think of the savings you make by not buying petrol etc, which is all well and good, but that’s a lot of extra money to stump up with upfront

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

[Openside]

Who buys new cars these days? Certainly in the UK it's all leasing, PCP or fleet stuff.

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

[Saint]

And according to some studies significantly worse in all other conditions, including moderate to heavy rain. I have never run winter tyres on my car given that I will at worst have to face icy/snowy driving conditions 3-4 days/year and rainy conditions loads and loads more in what passes for winter these days.

I'd like to see those studies because I'd suggest they are nonsense. Winter tyres are better in all conditions in low temperatures, end of!

Here's one
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/advice/winter-tyres

They are better at clearing standing water, too, so winter tyres are also safer than summer tyres when it’s raining.

and it's what I'd expect because the tread patterns are much deeper.

I suspect the problem is here
http://whichtyres.com/2013/10/winter-ty ... labelling/

FWIW, as stated, I have run Winters on my cars for decades and there is always that tricky decision in the UK when to switch: if you run Winters at 11C or above (typically) for any length of time, you f**k them. So I know what it's like driving both variants on waterlogged roads and the Winters have always been miles better.

I've run winter tyres on my car for the last 7 years. I swap them over in early November and back in Mid-March. It helps that I have garage space to store them and could afford a spare set of alloys as there is no hoteling option locally.

[Saint]

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

[Openside]

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

By specked you mean pay shedloads more per month. Ultimately you have paid for a whole lot of depreciation that hasn’t occurred.

[Saint]

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

By specked you mean pay shedloads more per month. Ultimately you have paid for a whole lot of depreciation that hasn’t occurred.

Difference was VERY marginal (like around 2% per month)

[Openside]

[quote=Openside post_id=76840 time=<a href="tel:1611740950">1611740950</a> user_id=95]
[quote=Saint post_id=76778 time=<a href="tel:1611705324">1611705324</a> user_id=196]
[quote=Openside post_id=76768 time=<a href="tel:1611701983">1611701983</a> user_id=95]


you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k
[/quote]

By specked you mean pay shedloads more per month. Ultimately you have paid for a whole lot of depreciation that hasn’t occurred.
[/quote]

Difference was VERY marginal (like around 2% per month)
[/quote]

My PCP deal allowed me to spec the mileage. I'm going to massively undershoot thanks to Covid - I had it at 20k per year, but I'm now 24 months in on 16k

By specked you mean pay shedloads more per month. Ultimately you have paid for a whole lot of depreciation that hasn’t occurred.

Difference was VERY marginal (like around 2% per month)

Well done, when my wife did one I actually thought it was a bit of a rip off and we instituted the 50% clause and gave it back to them (plus about £700 worth of mileage and ‘marks’)

[GogLais]

That PCP thing is like overdraft letters they hook you in and then you are stuck leasing a car for life... By the time you have paid for extra mileage and stone chips etc. it isn't the great deal it looks to be.

It's suited me, I'm half way through the second deal on a Golf. The cost is on a par with depreciation and I've got a good deal on the couple of services I'll need. Rightly or wrongly I'd rather keep my savings intact. I didn't have any charges when I handed the first one back after 35k miles.

you are the exception rather than the rule generally you only get an 8K allowance per year which if you use your car for commuting is peanuts. Yes cost is on a par with depreciation for the three years you have it but all the loss has been borne by then, the car is about half value.

That was 35k after four years, I'm retired.

[Sards]

Must be honest I love driving my wifes SUV. It's very comfortable and you get to be raised above the traffic which is how I prefer it ( its claustrophobic if you are in traffic and you can't see ahead or around you.) And its easy to step in and get out of because you aren't bending.
Also you have space around you in the driver's seat...I long long ago used to drive a vw golf...my elbows were constantly bumping something and I felt like I was in a coffin. Never again I decided. Must be able to rest your elbow on the side of you without your shoulder crammed into your neck.

So I don't really hate it at all....also love the seat....remember I drive a Mitsubishi truck so although there is a level of comfort its not the same.

[Sandstorm]

Must be able to rest your elbow on the side of you without your shoulder crammed into your neck.

[mat the expat]

you get to be raised above the traffic which is how I prefer it ( its claustrophobic if you are in traffic and you can't see ahead or around you.)

Can you see the conundrum here?

[average joe]

I also like big mafokor cars. Firstly I'm a huge fokor so I prefer not to fold myself in half getting in and out. I hate feeling like I'm sitting on the tarmac and pulling my head in like a fokon turtle because it's pressing up on the headliner with my knees next to my ears.

Also I like to see the fear on the face of the poephol in his tiny Ford Figo that just cut me off when he looks in the rearview and all he sees is this big ass grill. Sometimes they stop and get out only to get right back in and drive off when a reciprocate.

[laurent]

I also like big mafokor cars. Firstly I'm a huge fokor so I prefer not to fold myself in half getting in and out. I hate feeling like I'm sitting on the tarmac and pulling my head in like a fokon turtle because it's pressing up on the headliner with my knees next to my ears.

Also I like to see the fear on the face of the poephol in his tiny Ford Figo that just cut me off when he looks in the rearview and all he sees is this big ass grill. Sometimes they stop and get out only to get right back in and drive off when a reciprocate.

[Torquemada 1420]

I've run winter tyres on my car for the last 7 years. I swap them over in early November and back in Mid-March. It helps that I have garage space to store them and could afford a spare set of alloys as there is no hoteling option locally.

That is the downside. You need to stump up the cost of a spare set of alloys because swapping tyres on to the same rim would be tedious, time consuming and costly in the long run.

The thing that is a bugbear of mine is
- if I drove in the Summer with bald tyres, I could be done by plod for driving a vehicle in an unroadworthy/unsafe state. Actually, if it were dry, the balds offer more traction but plod would rightly argue that if it rained, I'd be something of a liability.
- BUT we allow BMW and Merc drivers out in Winter conditions with real wheel drive and fat tyres that result in behaviour more like skis than traction. How TF is that any different? Every time we get real Winter conditions, I encounter scores of these morons sliding around, slipping down hills backwards or parked backwards in a ditch (which at least provides me with a laugh). But in all seriousness, they are danger to other road users and even more so to pedestrians.

[Sandstorm]

I've run winter tyres on my car for the last 7 years. I swap them over in early November and back in Mid-March. It helps that I have garage space to store them and could afford a spare set of alloys as there is no hoteling option locally.

That is the downside. You need to stump up the cost of a spare set of alloys because swapping tyres on to the same rim would be tedious, time consuming and costly in the long run.

The thing that is a bugbear of mine is
- if I drove in the Summer with bald tyres, I could be done by plod for driving a vehicle in an unroadworthy/unsafe state. Actually, if it were dry, the balds offer more traction but plod would rightly argue that if it rained, I'd be something of a liability.
- BUT we allow BMW and Merc drivers out in Winter conditions with real wheel drive and fat tyres that result in behaviour more like skis than traction. How TF is that any different? Every time we get real Winter conditions, I encounter scores of these morons sliding around, slipping down hills backwards or parked backwards in a ditch (which at least provides me with a laugh). But in all seriousness, they are danger to other road users and even more so to pedestrians.

There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

[average joe]

I also like big mafokor cars. Firstly I'm a huge fokor so I prefer not to fold myself in half getting in and out. I hate feeling like I'm sitting on the tarmac and pulling my head in like a fokon turtle because it's pressing up on the headliner with my knees next to my ears.

Also I like to see the fear on the face of the poephol in his tiny Ford Figo that just cut me off when he looks in the rearview and all he sees is this big ass grill. Sometimes they stop and get out only to get right back in and drive off when a reciprocate.

Sure, now ask him to get in the back seat and I don't even mean the big guy.

[Torquemada 1420]

There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

Reverse in the UK. Look at the latitude. Same as Canada which gets pretty cold. UK benefits from a freak aspect of the Atlantic Conveyor bringing warm waters far North. Global warming melts the N Pole which will shift that current South and consequence is UK will freeze and every farmer's crop will be f**ked forever with a total climate change.

[Niegs]

There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

Reverse in the UK. Look at the latitude. Same as Canada which gets pretty cold. UK benefits from a freak aspect of the Atlantic Conveyor bringing warm waters far North. Global warming melts the N Pole which will shift that current South and consequence is UK will freeze and every farmer's crop will be f**ked forever with a total climate change.

And it's "climate change" such that we can't really predict, can we? Doesn't the Gulf Stream keep Ireland, Wales and England somewhat toasty for the latitude?

Here, we could be seeing more snow as we don't seem to get as many of those -15C and lower days where snow isn't as likely.

[Torquemada 1420]

There was a lot of talk 5-7 years ago about having winter tyre requirements in the UK and some garages even started offering tyre hoteling, but that sees to have died away again. In my opinion if you drive on run-flats, you should be required by law to change to winter tyres every October. They're lethal in icy conditions.

TBF with global warming on the way, we should get much less snow anyway.

Reverse in the UK. Look at the latitude. Same as Canada which gets pretty cold. UK benefits from a freak aspect of the Atlantic Conveyor bringing warm waters far North. Global warming melts the N Pole which will shift that current South and consequence is UK will freeze and every farmer's crop will be f**ked forever with a total climate change.

And it's "climate change" such that we can't really predict, can we? Doesn't the Gulf Stream keep Ireland, Wales and England somewhat toasty for the latitude?

Here, we could be seeing more snow as we don't seem to get as many of those -15C and lower days where snow isn't as likely.

Yes. It's part of the same mechanism.

[Hal Jordan]

SUV latest, VW have launched the ID4, the new EV based on the MEB platform that underpins the ID3 hatchback. 1ST Edition (sic) - a bit of blingy tech for those who can't wait for the standard models - is £37,800 after the grant.

On news which may excite the load luggers and dog owners, they're also going to bring an EV estate out, which will be only the second EV estate after the MG 5.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I don't really get the love affair with the SUVs.

Even over here they can be ungainly, thirsty big units that can be hard to fit into small spaces.

I'm a good driver with only one minor bingle in 27 years of driving so the safety aspect doesn't really concern me.

A late model VW Jetta will do me, thanks.

[Niegs]

Why? 4wd, smells like a steak, seats 35, goes slow, country-fried, super high beam, unexplained fires

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Love how self-deprecating the Simpsons is.

The Canyonero is a piece of shit because it is built in the US.

Fox is a worthless POS channel despite hosting the Simpsons.

[Hal Jordan]

Homer: This Friday, we're going back to the woods. And we're going to find that alien.
Bart: And if we don't?
Homer: We'll fake it and sell it to the FOX network.
Bart and Homer laugh.
Bart: They'll buy anything!
Homer: Now, son, they do a lot of quality programming too.
Bart and Homer laugh even harder than before.

[Uncle fester]

Love how self-deprecating the Simpsons is.

The Canyonero is a piece of shit because it is built in the US.

Fox is a worthless POS channel despite hosting the Simpsons.

That's a fair cop.

[Guy Smiley]

I don't really get the love affair with the SUVs.

Even over here they can be ungainly, thirsty big units that can be hard to fit into small spaces.

I'm a good driver with only one minor bingle in 27 years of driving so the safety aspect doesn't really concern me.

A late model VW Jetta will do me, thanks.

I’m on my 3rd VW now. Well, it’s parked in NZ and I’m stuck in Oz but I own the thing at least.

I enjoy the handling aspect of driving. Not having to slow down for corners and buckle up for body roll, that sort of thing.

Also... winter driving on the South Island... did you ever hear about anyone buying winter tyres?