Rich countries are hoarding vaccines: 51% of doses reserved by 15% of world's population

[Chrysoprase]

Your government has lots of tools at its disposal. You say tax pays for a huge portion of your doctors' training, well pass legislation that anyone who graduates having had that tax payer input into their education, has to serve 5 years in SA. Give them special tax breaks for staying put, that scale up the longer they provide service.

What a good idea! It requires some level of joined up thinking though & if this thread is anything to go by that seems to be in short supply in SA.

[FalseBayFC]

Your government has lots of tools at its disposal. You say tax pays for a huge portion of your doctors' training, well pass legislation that anyone who graduates having had that tax payer input into their education, has to serve 5 years in SA. Give them special tax breaks for staying put, that scale up the longer they provide service.

What a good idea! It requires some level of joined up thinking though & if this thread is anything to go by that seems to be in short supply in SA.

And why would joined up thinking be in short supply in South Africa or all the other countries affected by the brain drain in Africa or Sri Lanka, India or wherever else your NHS doctors are imported from?
There is no way that we can compete financially with the big economies. Its like any other form of protectionism like protecting a currency. Doesn't work.

[Ted.]

I am also most worried for my parents and in-laws who are all in their eighties. Not just the risk to their physical health but self-isolating is putting a big mental strain on them. The good news is that I am confident our private sector medicine will handle distribution of the vaccine to those who can afford it quite easily. We also have good experience in rural areas in dealing with TB and HIV so I think we are better positioned to roll out than people think. Only the Pfizer vacc has the extreme cold requirement and our President has said that we can't afford that anyway.

Ever so slightly hypocritical. But as you come out as a member of the privileged few, I'll let it pass.

Ted, I am very active in the underprivileged community which is huge over here. I pay huge money which I can hardly afford for my parents health insurance. My wife has just lost her job so it just got harder. We don't have a safety net like you guys. Can you see why I may be a little strung out about this. My medical aid costs are 30 percent of my salary.

I was merely pointing out that there seemed to be some hypocrisy in who you are accusing of cornering the vaccines. That is to say, you have no issue if that occurs in your own country. Apart from poking fun, I made no comment at all about your personal circumstances .

[Ted.]

I am also most worried for my parents and in-laws who are all in their eighties. Not just the risk to their physical health but self-isolating is putting a big mental strain on them. The good news is that I am confident our private sector medicine will handle distribution of the vaccine to those who can afford it quite easily. We also have good experience in rural areas in dealing with TB and HIV so I think we are better positioned to roll out than people think. Only the Pfizer vacc has the extreme cold requirement and our President has said that we can't afford that anyway.

Ever so slightly hypocritical. But as you have come out as a member of the privileged few, I'll let it pass.

I was referring to a distribution network, not access to the actual vaccine. Access will not be prioritized for those who can pay for it. So no not hypocritical at all.

Some uncharitable people might say that there is some variance between what you say and what you want other's to do and even between what you say in posts on the same thread.

For myself, I have a lot of sympathy for the plight of people in Africa, but I would also like my government to look after out own locale first, including our Pacific neighbours, before looking outside the region. However, I understand that out meagre contribution to the COVAX scheme is not tied to a region. I also think that our government could contribute more to that scheme, though our own ability has been constrained to some extent by having to deal with a series of natural events. We are not large country in economic terms.

[FalseBayFC]

Ever so slightly hypocritical. But as you come out as a member of the privileged few, I'll let it pass.

Ted, I am very active in the underprivileged community which is huge over here. I pay huge money which I can hardly afford for my parents health insurance. My wife has just lost her job so it just got harder. We don't have a safety net like you guys. Can you see why I may be a little strung out about this. My medical aid costs are 30 percent of my salary.

I was merely pointing out that there seemed to be some hypocrisy in who you are accusing of cornering the vaccines. That is to say, you have no issue if that occurs in your own country. Apart from poking fun, I made no comment at all about your personal circumstances .

The government has already released its action plan and the priority demographics. I'm actually in a great position compared to some of my countryman but compared to you guys I'm fucked. Vaccine nationalism will mean that millions more die than need to. That is all I am trying to convey.

[Saint]

it turn out that Bangladesh got itself sorted and ordered 30 million doses of AZ from SII last year. They're expecting delivery late this month.

[Openside]

All our universities and training hospitals are built with and funded by tax money. About 70 percent of the cost of training a doctor is born by the state.

If you are paying 70% of medics fees etc. and not getting any return on service as a condition of said funding then it is an Omnishambles.

The doctors are doing a perfectly rational thing by seeking a better life. But for every doctor in the NHS who comes from a developing country there is a corresponding hole in the exporting country's health service. A massive loss of both intellectual and financial capital.
Of course I understand how the world works. But if developing countries keep rolling over they will continue to get fucked over.

So offer to subsidise their training with a return of service or pay in full and go where you like.

[Marylandolorian]

Something is working

Friday, December 4, 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) announced that 10 countries in the Caribbean and Latin America, including Haiti will receive the future vaccine against Covid-19 free of charge.

This WHO initiative is part of the “ COVAX”mechanism for the development and equitable distribution of vaccines against Covid-19.

"In our region, we have 27 countries which will pay to acquire the vaccine and 10 countries which will receive the vaccine without paying, because according to economic criteria they are the poorest countries or because their small population has more difficulties of access," explained Arbas Barbosa, Deputy Director of the Pan American Health Organization (PAHO).

Besides Haiti, the 9 other countries benefiting from a free distribution of the future vaccine against Covid-19 are: Bolivia, Dominica, El Salvador, Grenada, Guyana, Honduras, Nicaragua, Saint Lucia and Saint-Vincent and the Grenadines.

[Kiap]

Something is working

Friday, December 4, 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) announced that 10 countries in the Caribbean and Latin America, including Haiti will receive the future vaccine against Covid-19 free of charge.

<snip> ...

Besides Haiti, the 9 other countries benefiting from a free distribution of the future vaccine against Covid-19 are: Bolivia, Dominica, El Salvador, Grenada, Guyana, Honduras, Nicaragua, Saint Lucia and Saint-Vincent and the Grenadines.

Might be from the Bill Gates allocation.

I take back everything bad I said about the cvnt. Well some of it, anyway. :)

[Saint]

And it turns out that, after all of the wailing, South Africa actually have got off their arse and managed to place an order with SII. They've even managed to arrange for 1 million doses to be delivered in January.

I'm unsure why they haven't decided to put in an order for more than 1.5 million even if the delivery might be a ways off, but it would seem that the SA government are able to get there hands on vaccine as soon as they actually get the chequebook out

[Chrysoprase]

And it turns out that, after all of the wailing, South Africa actually have got off their arse and managed to place an order with SII. They've even managed to arrange for 1 million doses to be delivered in January.

I'm unsure why they haven't decided to put in an order for more than 1.5 million even if the delivery might be a ways off, but it would seem that the SA government are able to get there hands on vaccine as soon as they actually get the chequebook out

But....but....but...hasn't the world's supply of vaccines already been bought up by those bastards in the UK, NZ and Aus???

Where did they find 1 million doses from? Surely no-one on this thread has been talking out their arse?

[Saint]

And it turns out that, after all of the wailing, South Africa actually have got off their arse and managed to place an order with SII. They've even managed to arrange for 1 million doses to be delivered in January.

I'm unsure why they haven't decided to put in an order for more than 1.5 million even if the delivery might be a ways off, but it would seem that the SA government are able to get there hands on vaccine as soon as they actually get the chequebook out

But....but....but...hasn't the world's supply of vaccines already been bought up by those bastards in the UK, NZ and Aus???

Where did they find 1 million doses from? Surely no-one on this thread has been talking out their arse?

I'm actually surprised that SII were prepared to release any to SA that quickly, but maybe they got Bangladesh to give some spare out of tge 30 million doses due to be shipped to them next month

[assfly]

Let's see how quick South Africa is to share their vaccines with it's poorer northern neighbours.

[Sandstorm]

Let's see how quick South Africa is to share their vaccines with it's poorer northern neighbours.

Get your own!

[assfly]

[Globus]

False Bay. Do you live there? I know a bit about it ! Including the wine producers.

It was called it because sailors took it to be the entrance to Cape Town which is around the corner.

Sailed around there. There's a nasty rock to be avoided.

[Ted.]

Hmmm, very interesting.

Tuberculosis has vaccine lessons for Covid

...

Without equitable access to Covid vaccines in the places that need them most, we run the risk of variants emerging that make the vaccines useless.

More infectious variants are already evolving in countries that aren’t using all the tools in the toolbox to stop the virus from spreading.

Yet even now, the pharmaceutical industry and many high-income countries are blocking efforts by India and South Africa to have intellectual property rights related to Covid-19 suspended, so they can begin to mass manufacture the vaccines or develop copy-cat versions.

TB taught us a valuable lesson. None of us are safe until we are all safe. We’d be fools to let this pandemic play out the same way.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health ... -for-covid

[Torquemada 1420]

And...........

Covid vaccine: WHO warns of 'catastrophic moral failure'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55709428

[FalseBayFC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... tries-45tn

Hoarding gonna cost ya.

[FalseBayFC]

And so the hoarding continues. This time Camada and New Zealand posing as poor countries plundering Covax.

Canada to receive significant doses from Covax fund despite already securing 9.6 doses per person
Canada is set to receive a significant haul of vaccines over the next months through a platform designed to maximise supply to poor countries, according to a new forecast, despite reserving the most doses-per-person in the world through direct deals with pharmaceutical companies.

Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday.

Covax, a mechanism to distribute Covid-19 doses fairly around the world, aims to deliver about 330m doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines to 145 countries by June, volumes that it says will be enough to cover an average of 3.3% of each country’s population.

Ottawa has led the world in direct deals with pharmaceutical companies to secure its own supply, reserving enough to cover approximately 9.6 doses per person, according to Guardian analysis.

The Guardian’s Michael Safi and Leyland Cecco report:

[Guy Smiley]

So after your tears and pity pleading you’re back to trolling.

[FalseBayFC]

So after your tears and pity pleading you’re back to trolling.

Nope just thought I'd share an article in today's Guardian about inequitable distribution of vaccines. Turns out I was right.

[TheNatalShark]

So after your tears and pity pleading you’re back to trolling.

Nope just thought I'd share an article in today's Guardian about inequitable distribution of vaccines. Turns out I was right.

That famously developed and wealthy country Chile.

Not that you're doing anything other than trolling, but in the event that you're not:

Question: with most vaccines having a shelf life, what do you think will happen to the vaccines order unused by developed countries? Which would have been created solely on basis they paid for additional production upfront.

[FalseBayFC]

So after your tears and pity pleading you’re back to trolling.

Nope just thought I'd share an article in today's Guardian about inequitable distribution of vaccines. Turns out I was right.

That famously developed and wealthy country Chile.

Not that you're doing anything other than trolling, but in the event that you're not:

Question: with most vaccines having a shelf life, what do you think will happen to the vaccines order unused by developed countries? Which would have been created solely on basis they paid for additional production upfront.

I see you've conveniently ignored the Canada and New Zealand cases. Do you think it's fair if the article is correct?

[TheNatalShark]

The only thing that has been ignored is my question to you. Have a nice day

[Chrysoprase]

I see you've conveniently ignored the Canada and New Zealand cases. Do you think it's fair if the article is correct?

You haven't shared the article

[FalseBayFC]

Canada to receive significant doses from Covax fund despite already securing 9.6 doses per person
Canada is set to receive a significant haul of vaccines over the next months through a platform designed to maximise supply to poor countries, according to a new forecast, despite reserving the most doses-per-person in the world through direct deals with pharmaceutical companies.

Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday.

Covax, a mechanism to distribute Covid-19 doses fairly around the world, aims to deliver about 330m doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines to 145 countries by June, volumes that it says will be enough to cover an average of 3.3% of each country’s population.

Ottawa has led the world in direct deals with pharmaceutical companies to secure its own supply, reserving enough to cover approximately 9.6 doses per person, according to Guardian analysis.

The Guardian’s Michael Safi and Leyland Cecco report:

[FalseBayFC]

See article above. @natalshark. One would hope they would share their bounty once they have vaccinated their own pop. Not sure what why they would need 10 doses per person. This may come a little late for us since Canada have hardly started and New Zealand too. In a fair world, which I understand this is not, they would be sent to those who need them the most.

[Raggs]

Let me help: https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... d-vaccines

Probably avoided posting it because it shows that Canada are claiming 2 million doses of the AZ vaccine through Covax. They seem to be entitled to claim it too, why? Because it's an option for when you pay into the covax fund. They've paid $345m into the fund, 2m doses of AZ, the cheapest vaccine, is a drop in the water for the amount they've paid in, and likely just trying to be sure of getting at least some vaccine doses if other contracts fell through.

Canada suffers, as it states in the article, because it does not have home based production abilities, so despite having plenty ordered, only has a small amount available this early on.

[TheNatalShark]

See article above. @natalshark. One would hope they would share their bounty once they have vaccinated their own pop. Not sure what why they would need 10 doses per person. This may come a little late for us since Canada have hardly started and New Zealand too. In a fair world, which I understand this is not, they would be sent to those who need them the most.

Thanks

They don't need 10 per a pop, and they aren't going to get 10 per a pop all at once. They've done what many other developed countries have done, spread their bets on different suppliers to get as many as fast as possible. Some may not even arrive. They will then share, as many countries have intimated, the excess once in a position to do so.

But you likely already knew this.

[FalseBayFC]

"Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday."


Given that the stated aim of Covax on their website is:" All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. "

Just wondering about how equal access actually is.

[Raggs]

"Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday."


Given that the stated aim of Covax on their website is:" All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. "

Just wondering about how equal access actually is.

$345m for 2m AZ doses doesn't sound very equal for Canada to me, sounds like they've massively overpaid... or maybe they're not being arseholes at all.

[FalseBayFC]

"Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday."


Given that the stated aim of Covax on their website is:" All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. "

Just wondering about how equal access actually is.

$345m for 2m AZ doses doesn't sound very equal for Canada to me, sounds like they've massively overpaid... or maybe they're not being arseholes at all.

Covax is intended to give access equally. Canada has used its developed world financial advantage to sign bilateral supply agreements. Covax intention was to give less strong countries a foot up

[Raggs]

"Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday."


Given that the stated aim of Covax on their website is:" All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. "

Just wondering about how equal access actually is.

$345m for 2m AZ doses doesn't sound very equal for Canada to me, sounds like they've massively overpaid... or maybe they're not being arseholes at all.

Covax is intended to give access equally. Canada has used its developed world financial advantage to sign bilateral supply agreements. Covax intention was to give less strong countries a foot up

Towards which Canada has donated $345m... and because they struggle to get early doses as well, they've taken up an option to get 2m doses from AZ when the first wave of doses becomes available. I'm sorry, but trying to paint them as the bad guys here is going to be a problem for me. Would you prefer that they simply not bother with COVAX at all? I'm sure there are many nations out there that have donated bugger all.

[FalseBayFC]

$345m for 2m AZ doses doesn't sound very equal for Canada to me, sounds like they've massively overpaid... or maybe they're not being arseholes at all.

Covax is intended to give access equally. Canada has used its developed world financial advantage to sign bilateral supply agreements. Covax intention was to give less strong countries a foot up

Towards which Canada has donated $345m... and because they struggle to get early doses as well, they've taken up an option to get 2m doses from AZ when the first wave of doses becomes available. I'm sorry, but trying to paint them as the bad guys here is going to be a problem for me. Would you prefer that they simply not bother with COVAX at all? I'm sure there are many nations out there that have donated bugger all.

SA donated $33m as a down payment, admittedly little compared to the richer countries. SA can pay for a vaccine but is towards the back of the queue with regards to access.

[Raggs]

Covax is intended to give access equally. Canada has used its developed world financial advantage to sign bilateral supply agreements. Covax intention was to give less strong countries a foot up

Towards which Canada has donated $345m... and because they struggle to get early doses as well, they've taken up an option to get 2m doses from AZ when the first wave of doses becomes available. I'm sorry, but trying to paint them as the bad guys here is going to be a problem for me. Would you prefer that they simply not bother with COVAX at all? I'm sure there are many nations out there that have donated bugger all.

SA donated $33m as a down payment, admittedly little compared to the richer countries. SA can pay for a vaccine but is towards the back of the queue with regards to access.

When did it make that donation? Was it after everyone else?

[FalseBayFC]

Towards which Canada has donated $345m... and because they struggle to get early doses as well, they've taken up an option to get 2m doses from AZ when the first wave of doses becomes available. I'm sorry, but trying to paint them as the bad guys here is going to be a problem for me. Would you prefer that they simply not bother with COVAX at all? I'm sure there are many nations out there that have donated bugger all.

SA donated $33m as a down payment, admittedly little compared to the richer countries. SA can pay for a vaccine but is towards the back of the queue with regards to access.

When did it make that donation? Was it after everyone else?

Why does that matter? It was late by a week or two.

[FalseBayFC]

To be fair the article doesn't specify that Canada will get a more than equal share. It refers to NZ and Chile in that regard.

[Biffer]

"Chile and New Zealand, which have also made controversial side deals to secure their own vaccine supplies, will also receive above-average numbers of doses, according to the interim allocation schedule released by Covax on Wednesday."


Given that the stated aim of Covax on their website is:" All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. "

Just wondering about how equal access actually is.

See, if you hadn't come on in the first place ranting and accusing everyone of being bastards, you might have your points received a bit more sympathetically. But you burnt those bridges a long time ago.

[FalseBayFC]

I didn't rant, I quoted an article that seemed fairly well researched. In a respected publication.