Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Sandstorm]

Lol. Someone in the publicity team is going to get a kicking.

There's a reasonably well researched Twitter thread out there that suggests it's actually some fucked up group of football fans / trolls who do this shit on purpose. Weirdos.

Really? Muppets. Probably time to cut their furlough pay and get them back out on the scaffolding.

[Paddington Bear]

Had some chapel down at Christmas. Lovely stuff and really come down in price.

Think it's hitting a point where it's going from a bit of a novelty to a player in the market

Their white Flint Dry and Bacchus are great, as is the rose.

Have to say their Rose isn't my favourite but agreed on the others. Have you done the tour there? A very good day out and significantly more generous with the tasting than I've found at Italian vineyards. Memories of the train home are a little sketchy...

[Hal Jordan]

Probably the wrong side of London for us.

[Openside]

Lol. Someone in the publicity team is going to get a kicking.

There's a reasonably well researched Twitter thread out there that suggests it's actually some fucked up group of football fans / trolls who do this shit on purpose. Weirdos.

Really? Muppets. Probably time to cut their furlough pay and get them back out on the scaffolding.

There in a nutshell is the attitude that led to Brexit!!

[Random1]

Think it's hitting a point where it's going from a bit of a novelty to a player in the market

Their white Flint Dry and Bacchus are great, as is the rose.

Have to say their Rose isn't my favourite but agreed on the others. Have you done the tour there? A very good day out and significantly more generous with the tasting than I've found at Italian vineyards. Memories of the train home are a little sketchy...

I wanted to do a team building day there. But apparently just going somewhere and getting pissed isn’t team building.

[C69]

There's a reasonably well researched Twitter thread out there that suggests it's actually some fucked up group of football fans / trolls who do this shit on purpose. Weirdos.

Really? Muppets. Probably time to cut their furlough pay and get them back out on the scaffolding.

There in a nutshell is the attitude that led to Brexit!!

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

[Openside]

Really? Muppets. Probably time to cut their furlough pay and get them back out on the scaffolding.

There in a nutshell is the attitude that led to Brexit!!

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

[robmatic]

There in a nutshell is the attitude that led to Brexit!!

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

I thought Brexit was about sovereignty?

Because voting for something like Brexit out of spite would be really stupid.

[TheNatalShark]

I thought Brexit was about sovereignty?

Because voting for something like Brexit out of spite would be really stupid.

And of course doesn't actually resolve the sneering issue. Of which it seems there is a lot of projection in OS' posting style.

[JM2K6]

There in a nutshell is the attitude that led to Brexit!!

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

I don't see any demonisation of immigrants in any of this so no, I don't think it's what led to Brexit

[Insane_Homer]

[Openside]

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

I thought Brexit was about sovereignty?

Because voting for something like Brexit out of spite would be really stupid.

Brexit ultimately is about two different things to two distinct groups of people. Sovreignty to the likes of me and immigration to the people who feel their jobs are being nicked by cheap labour imports.

Whether you consider it to be stupid or not Brexit was very much 'the elites are not listening' protest vote.

[Openside]

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

I don't see any demonisation of immigrants in any of this so no, I don't think it's what led to Brexit

see my reply

[Openside]

I thought Brexit was about sovereignty?

Because voting for something like Brexit out of spite would be really stupid.

And of course doesn't actually resolve the sneering issue. Of which it seems there is a lot of projection in OS' posting style.

WTAF you think the sneering tone of retainers is projection on my behalf ?? where have you been the last 4 years??

[Biffer]

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

I thought Brexit was about sovereignty?

Because voting for something like Brexit out of spite would be really stupid.

Brexit ultimately is about two different things to two distinct groups of people. Sovreignty to the likes of me and immigration to the people who feel their jobs are being nicked by cheap labour imports.

Whether you consider it to be stupid or not Brexit was very much 'the elites are not listening' protest vote.

How's that protest vote of yours turning out? Do we still hold all the cards?

[Openside]

I thought Brexit was about sovereignty?

Because voting for something like Brexit out of spite would be really stupid.

Brexit ultimately is about two different things to two distinct groups of people. Sovreignty to the likes of me and immigration to the people who feel their jobs are being nicked by cheap labour imports.

Whether you consider it to be stupid or not Brexit was very much 'the elites are not listening' protest vote.

How's that protest vote of yours turning out? Do we still hold all the cards?

I am very happy we are out of the EU - if you think the success or otherwise of Brexit can be judged in the first 5 weeks then you are being a bit silly.

[JM2K6]

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

I don't see any demonisation of immigrants in any of this so no, I don't think it's what led to Brexit

see my reply

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

[Openside]

I don't see any demonisation of immigrants in any of this so no, I don't think it's what led to Brexit

see my reply

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

Both - You have sovereignty covered by Little Englander jibes and Immigration concerns covered by racist Bigots.

[Rinkals]

I don't see any demonisation of immigrants in any of this so no, I don't think it's what led to Brexit

see my reply

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

OS' post shows the stupidity of the Referendum and why Cameron should have been shot at dawn.

Different groups held widely divergent agendas that they expected Brexit to resolve, none of which will come to fruition and the only sure thing is that the EU will be blamed for the mess.

[JM2K6]

see my reply

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

Both - You have sovereignty covered by Little Englander jibes and Immigration concerns covered by racist Bigots.

Oh I see. You're saying criticisms & mockery of people who hold certain beliefs is the reason they voted in line with those beliefs. Got it.

[Openside]

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

Both - You have sovereignty covered by Little Englander jibes and Immigration concerns covered by racist Bigots.

Oh I see. You're saying criticisms & mockery of people who hold certain beliefs is the reason they voted in line with those beliefs. Got it.

That probably seemed very clever to you, make sure you it report back to Softies circle jerk whatsapp group. You have determined that desire for Sovreignty is worthy of criticism and mockery as a little Englander likewise people fearing Poles and Romanians etc. working as drivers labourers etc. for cheaper wages than Nationals whilst sending wages ;and Child benefit) back to families at home. These are things that concerned people enough to snub the the ‘bien pensant’ attitudinising of the political elite.

[SaintK]

Both - You have sovereignty covered by Little Englander jibes and Immigration concerns covered by racist Bigots.

Oh I see. You're saying criticisms & mockery of people who hold certain beliefs is the reason they voted in line with those beliefs. Got it.

That probably seemed very clever to you, make sure you it report back to Softies circle jerk whatsapp group. You have determined that desire for Sovreignty is worthy of criticism and mockery as a little Englander likewise people fearing Poles and Romanians etc. working as drivers labourers etc. for cheaper wages than Nationals whilst sending wages ;and Child benefit) back to families at home. These are things that concerned people enough to snub the the ‘bien pensant’ attitudinising of the political elite.

WTF does that mean in English?

[JM2K6]

Both - You have sovereignty covered by Little Englander jibes and Immigration concerns covered by racist Bigots.

Oh I see. You're saying criticisms & mockery of people who hold certain beliefs is the reason they voted in line with those beliefs. Got it.

That probably seemed very clever to you, make sure you it report back to Softies circle jerk whatsapp group. You have determined that desire for Sovreignty is worthy of criticism and mockery as a little Englander likewise people fearing Poles and Romanians etc. working as drivers labourers etc. for cheaper wages than Nationals whilst sending wages ;and Child benefit) back to families at home. These are things that concerned people enough to snub the the ‘bien pensant’ attitudinising of the political elite.

You keep bringing up this whatsapp group. I guess we're living rent free in your head now. I regret to inform you it's largely used for discussing food and rugby, but feel free to keep imagining us as some sort of big bad collective of - gasps! - remainer elites.

People believing that "sovereignty" is of the utmost importance, and people who thought the foreigners were to blame for their life situations voted for Brexit because of those beliefs. Other people's views on their beliefs aren't going to make a blind bit of difference to people who vote for what they believe in. It's arse-about-tit.

Here are things that brought about brexit that had a lot more impact than "people sneering at the working class":

Decades of successive Governments blaming the EU for UK govt failures
Decades of UK media demonising the EU, mostly with entirely invented stories
Decades of UK media demonising immigrants, mostly with entirely invented stories
Farage getting more airtime than the Prime Minister
The Tories kowtowing to a faction of hardcore anti-Europeans within their own party
Economic downturn and the loss of jobs, the slow death of towns, and major changes to the job market in general - all exploited by the above

People might have turned into massive racists as a result of a number of factors, but it wasn't "sneering" that made them racist and it wasn't "sneering" that made them vote for Brexit. And people like you would've voted for Brexit regardless of a Facebook spat with Softie or whatever passes for you interacting with the real world.

[Openside]

Oh I see. You're saying criticisms & mockery of people who hold certain beliefs is the reason they voted in line with those beliefs. Got it.

That probably seemed very clever to you, make sure you it report back to Softies circle jerk whatsapp group. You have determined that desire for Sovreignty is worthy of criticism and mockery as a little Englander likewise people fearing Poles and Romanians etc. working as drivers labourers etc. for cheaper wages than Nationals whilst sending wages ;and Child benefit) back to families at home. These are things that concerned people enough to snub the the ‘bien pensant’ attitudinising of the political elite.

You keep bringing up this whatsapp group. I guess we're living rent free in your head now. I regret to inform you it's largely used for discussing food and rugby, but feel free to keep imagining us as some sort of big bad collective of - gasps! - remainer elites.

People believing that "sovereignty" is of the utmost importance, and people who thought the foreigners were to blame for their life situations voted for Brexit because of those beliefs. Other people's views on their beliefs aren't going to make a blind bit of difference to people who vote for what they believe in. It's arse-about-tit.

Here are things that brought about brexit that had a lot more impact than "people sneering at the working class":

Decades of successive Governments blaming the EU for UK govt failures
Decades of UK media demonising the EU, mostly with entirely invented stories
Decades of UK media demonising immigrants, mostly with entirely invented stories
Farage getting more airtime than the Prime Minister
The Tories kowtowing to a faction of hardcore anti-Europeans within their own party
Economic downturn and the loss of jobs, the slow death of towns, and major changes to the job market in general - all exploited by the above

People might have turned into massive racists as a result of a number of factors, but it wasn't "sneering" that made them racist and it wasn't "sneering" that made them vote for Brexit. And people like you would've voted for Brexit regardless of a Facebook spat with Softie or whatever passes for you interacting with the real world.

By keep bringing it up you mean twice and you might like to point out to the poisoned dwarf that it’s for rugby and food as he gleefully told me it spent most of the time telling each other I was as thick as mince.

As far as living rent free in my head you are having a laugh it’s softie who has twice months apart with no contact at all messaged me trying to bait me about Brexit despite me telling him I wasn’t interested in engagement. It was properly sociopathic behaviour eventually despite numerous warnings I had to block him because he wouldn’t let go.

[JM2K6]

I am not softie, I genuinely could not give a shit about your slapfights with him.

[Slick]

JM, you spent a fair bit of time on the old bored telling me Brexit had nothing to do with immigration

[JM2K6]

JM, you spent a fair bit of time on the old bored telling me Brexit had nothing to do with immigration

There's a huge difference between the reality of immigration and the beliefs of Brexiteers.

[Slick]

JM, you spent a fair bit of time on the old bored telling me Brexit had nothing to do with immigration

There's a huge difference between the reality of immigration and the beliefs of Brexiteers.

Which was exactly my point at the time. Anyway.

[JM2K6]

JM, you spent a fair bit of time on the old bored telling me Brexit had nothing to do with immigration

There's a huge difference between the reality of immigration and the beliefs of Brexiteers.

Which was exactly my point at the time. Anyway.

My memory's not good enough to remember the details of this, so... yeah! :)

[Torquemada 1420]

You keep bringing up this whatsapp group. I guess we're living rent free in your head now. I regret to inform you it's largely used for discussing food and rugby, but feel free to keep imagining us as some sort of big bad collective of - gasps! - remainer elites.

Can't be elite if I'm not in it.

[C69]

There in a nutshell is the attitude that led to Brexit!!

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

What bullshit, you have just made that shit up to support your own bigoted and reactionary narrow viewpoint.
There is no evidence whatsoever that your opinion has any validity at all.

[Openside]

Sorry but wtf has that got to do with Brexit?

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

What bullshit, you have just made that shit up to support your own bigoted and reactionary narrow viewpoint.
There is no evidence whatsoever that your opinion has any validity at all.

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

[Openside]

see my reply

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

OS' post shows the stupidity of the Referendum and why Cameron should have been shot at dawn.

Different groups held widely divergent agendas that they expected Brexit to resolve, none of which will come to fruition and the only sure thing is that the EU will be blamed for the mess.

I actually agree with most of that, especially the limp wristed efforts DC made to actually try and reform the EU from within. He is more responsible for Brexit being voted for than anyone.

[Random1]

see my reply

Which one of "fear of foreigners" and "sovereignty" covers "sneering at the working class" exactly

OS' post shows the stupidity of the Referendum and why Cameron should have been shot at dawn.

Different groups held widely divergent agendas that they expected Brexit to resolve, none of which will come to fruition and the only sure thing is that the EU will be blamed for the mess.

Isn’t that true of any election and/or referendum?

There are many reasons they wanted out, it’s just that the common denominator was they wanted more localised control.

Same as Scotland or any “independence” move.

[JM2K6]

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

What bullshit, you have just made that shit up to support your own bigoted and reactionary narrow viewpoint.
There is no evidence whatsoever that your opinion has any validity at all.

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

So now we're on to "attitudes to people after the vote are the reason the vote went the way it did"?

[Woddy]

It was widely posited immediately after the referendum result, and has been ever since, that a significant factor in the Brexit vote was as a protest by those who felt disenfranchised and forgotten, as part of a general slap in the face of the establishment (whether in government, the media or metropolitan society) who no longer listened to their complaints and concerns. Comparisons were and still are made with an apparently similar movement in the States in the Fly-Over states, etc.

Whether you agree with that or not, it was and is definitely commented on. I think it covers the sneering that OS refers to.

[Torquemada 1420]

Different groups held widely divergent agendas that they expected Brexit to resolve, none of which will come to fruition and the only sure thing is that the EU will be blamed for the mess.

I don't believe that was the core reason for the outcome. There were 2 broadly entrenched camps
- Remainers. Pro Europeans who felt the economic impact of leaving would be at least uncertain and potentially disastrous.
- Leavers. Anti Europe, red tape etc This group was fuelled by the Tory's ill fated "throw Johnny foreigner out" campaigns

And then there were a lot of uncertain or ambivalent who went against the Govt because they got p*ssed off with being told what to do and the stream of manipulative communications. Add to them the generations of unemployed left with zero hope post Thatcher who also wanted to bloody the Govt's nose and felt that things could not get worse for them. It's this rump here which swung the vote and the Tory's arrogance in assuming that just because everyone in the M25 catchment was category 1, he was representative of the country as a whole showed how out of touch they were. The one positive that came from this whole clusterf**k is that democracy actually worked in that moment and a Govt elected to represent the people paid the price for doing entirely the opposite.

[JM2K6]

It was widely posited immediately after the referendum result, and has been ever since, that a significant factor in the Brexit vote was as a protest by those who felt disenfranchised and forgotten, as part of a general slap in the face of the establishment (whether in government, the media or metropolitan society) who no longer listened to their complaints and concerns. Comparisons were and still are made with an apparently similar movement in the States in the Fly-Over states, etc.

Whether you agree with that or not, it was and is definitely commented on. I think it covers the sneering that OS refers to.

And yet, whenever people were asked for the reasons they voted for Brexit...

[Rinkals]

Different groups held widely divergent agendas that they expected Brexit to resolve, none of which will come to fruition and the only sure thing is that the EU will be blamed for the mess.

I don't believe that was the core reason for the outcome. There were 2 broadly entrenched camps
- Remainers. Pro Europeans who felt the economic impact of leaving would be at least uncertain and potentially disastrous.
- Leavers. Anti Europe, red tape etc This group was fuelled by the Tory's ill fated "throw Johnny foreigner out" campaigns

And then there were a lot of uncertain or ambivalent who went against the Govt because they got p*ssed off with being told what to do and the stream of manipulative communications. Add to them the generations of unemployed left with zero hope post Thatcher who also wanted to bloody the Govt's nose and felt that things could not get worse for them. It's this rump here which swung the vote and the Tory's arrogance in assuming that just because everyone in the M25 catchment was category 1, he was representative of the country as a whole showed how out of touch they were. The one positive that came from this whole clusterf**k is that democracy actually worked in that moment and a Govt elected to represent the people paid the price for doing entirely the opposite.

I'm referring to the portion of the population who felt that foreigners should be kept out, the portion that believed that the EU mandated anti-British doctrines like the bent banana and the pint pot, the portion the believed that the EU wasted money which could be better spent at home, the portion that believed that laws promulgated in the EU were designed to penalise the British. And others.

On their own, these disparate groups are each a small minority.

But united by the simple Yes/No vote of the Referendum, they were sufficient to attract support of 52% of population.

[Torquemada 1420]

[I'm referring to the portion of the population who felt that foreigners should be kept out, the portion that believed that the EU mandated anti-British doctrines like the bent banana and the pint pot, the portion the believed that the EU wasted money which could be better spent at home, the portion that believed that laws promulgated in the EU were designed to penalise the British. And others.

On their own, these disparate groups are each a small minority.

But united by the simple Yes/No vote of the Referendum, they were sufficient to attract support of 52% of population.

I understand but am contending that the group which decided the referendum had no expectations post Brexit: they voted to give the Govt a bloody nose.