So, coronavirus...

[Biffer]

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Oh. Is it not our army?

[Tattie]

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Oh. Is it not our army?

My previous point exactly - There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

[tc27]

My previous point exactly - There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

Yes its a dumb argument....flat out wrong, condescending and counter productive.

I suppose from my political PoV its satisfying to see one shared British institution that the SNP cant rename and cover in saltires (sometimes at great expense like the Transport Police) having a high profile.

[Tattie]

My previous point exactly - There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

Yes its a dumb argument....flat out wrong, condescending and counter productive.

I suppose from my political PoV its satisfying to see one shared British institution that the SNP cant rename and cover in saltires (sometimes at great expense like the Transport Police) having a high profile.

Yes, but the armed forces are portrayed in the exact opposite way, particularly in the media - dripping in "Britishness". I'm sure they did a poll during the 2014 referendum where a surprisingly large proportion (over 50%) of the Scottish Armed forces regiments were more than happy to transfer to a purely Scottish setup. Having said that, I can't see why there couldn't continue to be some kind of shared defense force post independence.

[Glaston]

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Why is the obese slug Johnson getting his vaccination before all health workers?

Mate you need to visit Specsavers.

[eldanielfire]

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

The British army (well armed forces) is also the Scottish army....and I know for a fact they are deployed across the UK.

Also the geographical and population dispersion challenges outside of the central belt in Scotland are unique and probably need the extra logistical support.

Exactly. There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

[Tattie]

The British army (well armed forces) is also the Scottish army....and I know for a fact they are deployed across the UK.

Also the geographical and population dispersion challenges outside of the central belt in Scotland are unique and probably need the extra logistical support.

Exactly. There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

[eldanielfire]

Exactly. There is this weird idea in some sections of the population that Scotland should be grateful to the union for having access to the armed forces. Scottish people pay the same taxes as the rest of the UK and as such they are as much our army, navy and air force as anyone's.

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

[SaintK]

I think it's more to push back at the SNPs narrative that everything bad is due to the Union and Scotland doesn't get anything out of it. I mean Sturgeon has been pushing the independence narrative through the pandemic. I don't blame them for counter measures.

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

[eldanielfire]

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

I missed that.

[SaintK]

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

I missed that.

[SaintK]

Blimey!!

Matt Hancock has set out tough new measures to stop Covid-19 variants from entering England, including a 10-year sentence for incoming passengers who lie about where they have travelled when abroad.
The health secretary said people who entered the UK from 33 high-risk countries would have to pay up to £1,750 to quarantine in government-designated hotels. He also confirmed a new “enhanced testing” regime for all international travellers, with two tests required during the quarantine process from next Monday.

Stable door, horse bolted springs to mind though

[tc27]

UK going to be able to sequence all positive tests by April.

We are kind of like the rain man of Covid response.

Crap at locking down early enough to stop having one of the worse death rates, unwilling to inconvenience travellers by closing our borders and seemingly completely blaise about new variants that are vaccine resistant coming in.

But really good at vaccinating and no.1 at sequencing...will be able to track the vaccine resistant variants coming in in almost real time.

[The Druid]

Blimey!!

Matt Hancock has set out tough new measures to stop Covid-19 variants from entering England, including a 10-year sentence for incoming passengers who lie about where they have travelled when abroad.
The health secretary said people who entered the UK from 33 high-risk countries would have to pay up to £1,750 to quarantine in government-designated hotels. He also confirmed a new “enhanced testing” regime for all international travellers, with two tests required during the quarantine process from next Monday.

Stable door, horse bolted springs to mind though

Stable door, horse lamely plodded springs to mind though

[Saint]

356k doses yesterday- actually marginally up on last week

[tc27]

So about 2 million more doses to go to get all the top four categories dosed at least once...should be doable this week.

This week was then one when the document the SG accidently published showed the expectation was for about 30% less supply.

[Saint]

So about 2 million more doses to go to get all the top four categories dosed at least once...should be doable this week.

This week was then one when the document the SG accidently published showed the expectation was for about 30% less supply.

Yeah, we seem to be holding at around 3 million per week or so. If we miss that target it will be by the thousands, not the 10s or 100s of thousands - but I think we're probably going to be a day or so ahead of schedule.

Second dose will be really starting in the next couple of weeks, so a slow down on new people vaccinated until supply starts to increase

[Sandstorm]

Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

[Calculon]

I see South Africa have decided not to bother with the cheap AZ vaccine, because although it still seems very effective against prevent severe illness against the SA variants, it doesn't seem that effective against mild or moderate illness, so it's apparently not worth bothering with. Obviously, as SA have such huge vaccine reserves they can afford to use only the absolute best vaccines...

Sorry FalseBay, but this is the reason ZA aren't doing well with vaccinations, not other mean countries buying up doses, but a seemingly incompetent government.

You are probably right.

One of Ex-President Zuma's ex-wives (as a polygamist, he has a number of these) was narrowly defeated in a Presidential election and still commands a lot of power in Government.

Although she is a medical doctor, she lacks logic and was responsible for a series of bizarre decrees which overruled President Ramaphosa's decisions on lockdown regulations.

I see her bossy authoritarian fingerprints all over this.

The decision to suspend the rollout was taken on the advice of the Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC) on COVID-19 vaccines. You can read the chairperson of the MAC (Professor Barry Schoub) explaining the decision here:

https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/prof- ... suspended/

I don’t see how that decision is any way indicative of government incompetence

[Openside]

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

Why is the obese slug Johnson getting his vaccination before all health workers?

Mate you need to visit Specsavers.

Everyone is so revved up to rubbish Boris and everything the govt. does you have to expect the off false start...

[Saint]

Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

[Openside]

Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

You should have left it at that.

[Ovals]

Got my jab today

[Dogbert]

What by distorting the truth? I think everyone agrees that the military are doing a good job in supporting the vaccination effort but to make out that they're a gift from Westminster and that we wouldn't have this resource if we were independent is wrong and pathetic.

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

But who pushed that line that that the Scottish Vaccine effort was only saved by the British Army , well practically the whole of the mainstream media - The Times , The Telegraph , The Sun , The Record , The Mail , The Express , The Mirror , BBC , STV etc

Are you telling me that they have some sort of agenda ?

[Tattie]

No one has claimed they are a gift from Westminster, that's just the spit from Nats. They have said just that it's good the unions resources can help each other and it's something that simply doesn't get highlighted in the Scottish political sphere.

I think you are missing the point from the original shit stirring post that started this and the ongoing responses

Only because the Scottish Government had to go hand in cap to Westminster to allow the British army to step in

But who pushed that line that that the Scottish Vaccine effort was only saved by the British Army , well practically the whole of the mainstream media - The Times , The Telegraph , The Sun , The Record , The Mail , The Express , The Mirror , BBC , STV etc

Are you telling me that they have some sort of agenda ?

Is this a serious question?

[Enzedder]

Got my jab today

Autistic prick.

[dpedin]

Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

You should have left it at that.

Spectacular it is - Probably because we asked the NHS supported by the army to lead the vaccine drive and told Serco, Deliottes, etc to feck off! Just imagine how good the Test, Trace and Isolate programme could have been for a fraction of the price we paid the Tory pals. Dont even mention the PPE prices ... I see the £100+m of stuff they ordered via the Florida Jewellery designer is not fit for purpose and can't be used.

[Rinkals]

I see South Africa have decided not to bother with the cheap AZ vaccine, because although it still seems very effective against prevent severe illness against the SA variants, it doesn't seem that effective against mild or moderate illness, so it's apparently not worth bothering with. Obviously, as SA have such huge vaccine reserves they can afford to use only the absolute best vaccines...

Sorry FalseBay, but this is the reason ZA aren't doing well with vaccinations, not other mean countries buying up doses, but a seemingly incompetent government.

You are probably right.

One of Ex-President Zuma's ex-wives (as a polygamist, he has a number of these) was narrowly defeated in a Presidential election and still commands a lot of power in Government.

Although she is a medical doctor, she lacks logic and was responsible for a series of bizarre decrees which overruled President Ramaphosa's decisions on lockdown regulations.

I see her bossy authoritarian fingerprints all over this.

The decision to suspend the rollout was taken on the advice of the Ministerial Advisory Committee (MAC) on COVID-19 vaccines. You can read the chairperson of the MAC (Professor Barry Schoub) explaining the decision here:

https://www.sabcnews.com/sabcnews/prof- ... suspended/

I don’t see how that decision is any way indicative of government incompetence

Yes, I suppose I'm just making assumptions based on NDZ's irrational decrees last year.

[Lemoentjie]

Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

[Raggs]

Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

[FalseBayFC]

I see the Trudeau administration getting a fair bit of stick about their own incompetence in rolling out their vaccine program.

[Ymx]

Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

Have you been reading the Kremlin propaganda website Russia today again?

[Saint]

Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

The point was that Sputnik didn't go through Phase 3. At all.

It did phase 1 and 2, which proved the basics - that at small scale it was safe, and that from a medical perspective it produced antibodies. Off the back if that, tge Russian health authority/government signed it off, while everyone in the west moved to a large scale double blind trial.

Sputnik is badly misunderstood. It's actually 2 different adenovirus vaccines masquerading as a single vaccine - shot 2 is not the same as shot 1. The reason for that is that both shots are based on human adenovirus - so there's a high chance (unquantifiable thanks to a lack of
Phase 3) that the immune response after the 2nd dose is not a strengthened Covid19 response. It's one if several reasons that the Sputnik team want to see what happens using AZ as the 2nd dose (the other major reason being that they're struggling badly with the production of their second dose).

As an aside, the fact that AZ is based on a chimp Adenovirus is both what makes it known to be safe, but also means that in a some small populations globally it cannot be the local vaccine. Chimp adenovirus are known to be capable of infecting humans. But they struggle badly to live in the human body, get wiped out quickly, and aren't transmissible. So we know that they're safe as a base, but there's around 1% of the global population who are carrying antibodies for the underlying adenovirus who will need a different vaccine. But as I say, due to the lack of transmissability, they're very localised

[Ovals]

Got my jab today

Been awake most of the night with flu like symptoms (aches, pains and shivers) - known short term side effects of the AZ vax. My sister had the same after her jab. Bloody uncomfortable.

[Ymx]

Father in law had it. Said he had a very uncomfortable uneasy stomach issues on day 2.

Heard though that it’s a good sign and demonstrated the immune system has detected it as a threat.

[Calculon]

Interesting that the EU is now begging for the Russian vaccine! The last that Western scientists were saying is that it's unsafe and not as good...

It's also a typically strong response from the EU to the Navalny situation... oh wait

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

The point was that Sputnik didn't go through Phase 3. At all.

It did phase 1 and 2, which proved the basics - that at small scale it was safe, and that from a medical perspective it produced antibodies. Off the back if that, tge Russian health authority/government signed it off, while everyone in the west moved to a large scale double blind trial.

Sputnik is badly misunderstood. It's actually 2 different adenovirus vaccines masquerading as a single vaccine - shot 2 is not the same as shot 1. The reason for that is that both shots are based on human adenovirus - so there's a high chance (unquantifiable thanks to a lack of
Phase 3) that the immune response after the 2nd dose is not a strengthened Covid19 response. It's one if several reasons that the Sputnik team want to see what happens using AZ as the 2nd dose (the other major reason being that they're struggling badly with the production of their second dose).

As an aside, the fact that AZ is based on a chimp Adenovirus is both what makes it known to be safe, but also means that in a some small populations globally it cannot be the local vaccine. Chimp adenovirus are known to be capable of infecting humans. But they struggle badly to live in the human body, get wiped out quickly, and aren't transmissible. So we know that they're safe as a base, but there's around 1% of the global population who are carrying antibodies for the underlying adenovirus who will need a different vaccine. But as I say, due to the lack of transmissability, they're very localised

I’ve not read the article in the lancet detailing the results of the phase 3 trails for sputnik v, but I would I suspect that the authors would claim the reason for the 92% efficacy is at least partly due to a heterogenous boost (using AD26 and an AD5 booster). It is the same lack of heterogenous boost that some virologist theorized was the reason that the AstraZeneca vaccine “only” had 62% efficacy from phase 3 trials results published back in December. This was also for this reason that it was first suggested the AZ vaccine and Sputnik V be combined, and why AZ and Pfizer vaccines will be trailed together and sputnik v and CanSino – the latter uses a weakened type 5 strain of the adenovirus as vector.

Carrying antibodies for the vector virus also does necessarily preclude the vaccine from working. Baseline antibodies for AD26 (used as the vector for the J & J and the first shot of sputnik v) does not appear to neutralize an AD26 vaccine. This was from a study of over 80 000 Africans who received AD26 vaccines for HIV and Ebola. I don’t know if this is also the case for AD5, however it is interesting to note that AD5 CanSino has reported similar efficacy percentage to the AD26 Johnson & Johnson, both are single dose vaccines.

All the vector vaccines, including the AZ one, uses attenuated vaccines so I would be surprised if AZ chose the chimp adenoviruses over AD5 and AD26 based on safety reasons. More likely they chose it since as you say only one percent of people have antibodies to the chimp adenovirus (probably due to cross immunization) and because Oxford already had considerably experience working with that vector as a vaccine.

[Ovals]

Father in law had it. Said he had a very uncomfortable uneasy stomach issues on day 2.

Heard though that it’s a good sign and demonstrated the immune system has detected it as a threat.

That was my initial thought - shows it is doing something. Hopefully the 'feeling crap' stage will quickly pass.

[Saint]

No, they weren't saying it was unsafe and not as good. They were saying that it hadn't undergone sufficient trials yet, and when they were supposedly giving it Putin's kids (right?) it hadn't finished trials.

The point was that Sputnik didn't go through Phase 3. At all.

It did phase 1 and 2, which proved the basics - that at small scale it was safe, and that from a medical perspective it produced antibodies. Off the back if that, tge Russian health authority/government signed it off, while everyone in the west moved to a large scale double blind trial.

Sputnik is badly misunderstood. It's actually 2 different adenovirus vaccines masquerading as a single vaccine - shot 2 is not the same as shot 1. The reason for that is that both shots are based on human adenovirus - so there's a high chance (unquantifiable thanks to a lack of
Phase 3) that the immune response after the 2nd dose is not a strengthened Covid19 response. It's one if several reasons that the Sputnik team want to see what happens using AZ as the 2nd dose (the other major reason being that they're struggling badly with the production of their second dose).

As an aside, the fact that AZ is based on a chimp Adenovirus is both what makes it known to be safe, but also means that in a some small populations globally it cannot be the local vaccine. Chimp adenovirus are known to be capable of infecting humans. But they struggle badly to live in the human body, get wiped out quickly, and aren't transmissible. So we know that they're safe as a base, but there's around 1% of the global population who are carrying antibodies for the underlying adenovirus who will need a different vaccine. But as I say, due to the lack of transmissability, they're very localised

I’ve not read the article in the lancet detailing the results of the phase 3 trails for sputnik v, but I would I suspect that the authors would claim the reason for the 92% efficacy is at least partly due to a heterogenous boost (using AD26 and an AD5 booster). It is the same lack of heterogenous boost that some virologist theorized was the reason that the AstraZeneca vaccine “only” had 62% efficacy from phase 3 trials results published back in December. This was also for this reason that it was first suggested the AZ vaccine and Sputnik V be combined, and why AZ and Pfizer vaccines will be trailed together and sputnik v and CanSino – the latter uses a weakened type 5 strain of the adenovirus as vector.

Carrying antibodies for the vector virus also does necessarily preclude the vaccine from working. Baseline antibodies for AD26 (used as the vector for the J & J and the first shot of sputnik v) does not appear to neutralize an AD26 vaccine. This was from a study of over 80 000 Africans who received AD26 vaccines for HIV and Ebola. I don’t know if this is also the case for AD5, however it is interesting to note that AD5 CanSino has reported similar efficacy percentage to the AD26 Johnson & Johnson, both are single dose vaccines.

All the vector vaccines, including the AZ one, uses attenuated vaccines so I would be surprised if AZ chose the chimp adenoviruses over AD5 and AD26 based on safety reasons. More likely they chose it since as you say only one percent of people have antibodies to the chimp adenovirus (probably due to cross immunization) and because Oxford already had considerably experience working with that vector as a vaccine.

My comment on safety was more about fears that have been expressed about how do we know a chimp vector is safe for a human body

Oxford deliberately chose that vector over using a mix of human vectors specifically to rule out the risk of preexisting immunity for the vector interfering with the immune response generation for Covid - the same reason they were planning on using it for MERS - as this is the area we lack information, particularly as we start looking at multidose situations for these types of vaccines.

[Openside]

Pretty fucking spectacular vaccine program so far!! I don't know how they managed to get it going so fast, but I can only imagine how many Tory Party fundraisers are getting £1 per jab completed.

You should have left it at that.

Spectacular it is - Probably because we asked the NHS supported by the army to lead the vaccine drive and told Serco, Deliottes, etc to feck off! Just imagine how good the Test, Trace and Isolate programme could have been for a fraction of the price we paid the Tory pals. Dont even mention the PPE prices ... I see the £100+m of stuff they ordered via the Florida Jewellery designer is not fit for purpose and can't be used.

So return it, it it doesn’t meet specifications.

[Openside]

Got my jab today

Been awake most of the night with flu like symptoms (aches, pains and shivers) - known short term side effects of the AZ vax. My sister had the same after her jab. Bloody uncomfortable.

Makes sense, you have had a mini dose...