The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

I'd keep Darcy in but the rest is good news (not that Maitland being fit is bad).

[SaintK]

4 weeks for Zander, which is one more than POM got, for what seemed to be a worse offence.

Did Zander take along the wrong biscuits?

The Disciplinary Committee found that the act of foul play warranted a mid-range entry point (six weeks’ suspension) and reduced that by two weeks to take account of mitigating factors (including his admission of foul play, good disciplinary record and remorse). Mr Fagerson is therefore suspended for four weeks and, given his playing schedule, he will miss the three Scotland matches in the Guinness Six Nations Championship against France, Ireland and Italy, and one further match to be determined. He was reminded of his right of appeal.

It’s just barking mad that Fagerson gets a longer ban than POM if you have seen both incidents. It was being suggested on Twitter that Fagerson wouldn’t admit that the offence merited a sending off, which if true is presumably why. It’s a travesty if you get a longer ban for sticking up for yourself though.

I agree with the comparison
I would suggest that the SRU should be asking questions of their appointed lawyer that would have been representing Fagerson
Ireland obviously had better representation for POM and dealt with the Disciplinary Committee better

[Tichtheid]

4 weeks for Zander, which is one more than POM got, for what seemed to be a worse offence.

Did Zander take along the wrong biscuits?

It’s just barking mad that Fagerson gets a longer ban than POM if you have seen both incidents. It was being suggested on Twitter that Fagerson wouldn’t admit that the offence merited a sending off, which if true is presumably why. It’s a travesty if you get a longer ban for sticking up for yourself though.

I agree with the comparison
I would suggest that the SRU should be asking questions of their appointed lawyer that would have been representing Fagerson
Ireland obviously had better representation for POM and dealt with the Disciplinary Committee better

There is a Scottish QC quoted elsewhere, he sits on disciplinary panels, but not this one obviously. He says that the process in cases such as this is - entry point for offence, reduction based on previous good disciplinary record, then a further reduction for not querying the decision.

So for POM, entry point six weeks, two weeks off for good record (he has been sent off for Munster this season), a further one week reduction for not challenging the decision.

Fagerson - entry point six weeks, two off for never having been sent off before, but no further reduction as he pleaded guilty to foul play but thought it merited a yellow.
Some folk are saying this was probably a gamble on the part of Fagerson's representatives as it would have made no difference to missing the next three 6N games, there were two possible outcomes - four weeks and missing a Glasgow game on top of the 6N, or card brought down to a yellow, - no ban.

[robmatic]

So Zander refuses to agree it was a red card and is banned for 4 weeks. Honest to fuck, no common sense at all.

He didn’t even challenge that it was foul play, he only argued mitigation and that it merited a yellow rather than red.

That this leads to a more severe sanction suggests to me that the whole process needs to be open and transparent.

Basically he gets penalised for agreeing with the TMO.

[Yr Alban]

Have to say, I'm still feeling pretty beaten up from Saturday. Don't have the energy to get annoyed about Fagerson or any of it at the moment.

I was in a properly foul mood for 2 days. Didn’t even want to think about it. Fortunately that has now lifted, and I’m back to my usual manageable pessimism. I think it was a sort of mini-grief reaction because after we were so good in the England game, I had got my hopes up rather higher than usual, only for them to be dashed immediately (and by Wales, who I am seriously fed up losing to).

Roughly the same here. I was in full denial for a few days. Still consumed by disbelief but hey ho, onwards.

There's no chance in hell of a result in Paris and with Ireland I don't have The Fear but The Resignation - somehow they'll beat us as our upstanding RugbyValues(TM) lads just can't deal with Irish-level shithousery.

So a 2-win 6N most likely which is well below the potential of this team.

If we can produce another performance at the level of the England game, a result v Ireland is far from impossible. Maybe even in Paris if France have an off day. The question is whether we can. For some reason we save both our best and our worst performances up for England games.

[SaintK]

It’s just barking mad that Fagerson gets a longer ban than POM if you have seen both incidents. It was being suggested on Twitter that Fagerson wouldn’t admit that the offence merited a sending off, which if true is presumably why. It’s a travesty if you get a longer ban for sticking up for yourself though.

I agree with the comparison
I would suggest that the SRU should be asking questions of their appointed lawyer that would have been representing Fagerson
Ireland obviously had better representation for POM and dealt with the Disciplinary Committee better

There is a Scottish QC quoted elsewhere, he sits on disciplinary panels, but not this one obviously. He says that the process in cases such as this is - entry point for offence, reduction based on previous good disciplinary record, then a further reduction for not querying the decision.

So for POM, entry point six weeks, two weeks off for good record (he has been sent off for Munster this season), a further one week reduction for not challenging the decision.

Fagerson - entry point six weeks, two off for never having been sent off before, but no further reduction as he pleaded guilty to foul play but thought it merited a yellow.
Some folk are saying this was probably a gamble on the part of Fagerson's representatives as it would have made no difference to missing the next three 6N games, there were two possible outcomes - four weeks and missing a Glasgow game on top of the 6N, or card brought down to a yellow, - no ban.

Ahh, ok I see that

[Yr Alban]

Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.

Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.

[KingBlairhorn]

Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.

Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.

I can’t say I watch much super rugby to judge for my self, however the general gist appears to be that this is an excellent signing. If he is as good as is being made out, he will be a fantastic player for Ollie Smith and Rufus McLean to learn from.

Apparently also able to play 10 and wing, so a good versatile and always available during international periods option.

[robmatic]

Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.

Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.

Dunno how good these guys are but at least Glasgow are finally making progress with overhauling their squad. Their recruitment seemed to suffer during the Rennie/Wilson crossover.

[I like neeps]

Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.

Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.

Dunno how good these guys are but at least Glasgow are finally making progress with overhauling their squad. Their recruitment seemed to suffer during the Rennie/Wilson crossover.

The overlap with covid was probably the major factor and Bombrys has said 3 deals fell through accordingly.

I think Glasgow's biggest recruitment mistake was not signing a fullback before Hogg left as a plan. Putting Huw Jones there has been a real success but maybe not the optimal outcome.

[clydecloggie]

Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.

Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.

I can’t say I watch much super rugby to judge for my self, however the general gist appears to be that this is an excellent signing. If he is as good as is being made out, he will be a fantastic player for Ollie Smith and Rufus McLean to learn from.

Apparently also able to play 10 and wing, so a good versatile and always available during international periods option.

Not SQ? I thought he was. I watched SR Aotearoa last year and he was definitely one that caught the eye, although mostly playing wing.

Great news on Forbes as well if that is true.

[Biffer]

The only info in Josh Mackay’s wiki page is ‘How the Highlanders let this guy leave and kept Scott Gregory is anyone’s guess’

[robmatic]

WP Nel re-signs for Edinburgh. Probably not a big surprise as it's been sounding like we basically picked one out of him and Berghan to keep.

He sounds dead keen to continue on into coaching as well.

[Yr Alban]

Reports appearing on Twitter that Josh McKay has signed for Glasgow. Not SQ, apparently, despite the name, though he is only 23 and so would be 28 when he qualified, providing he chose to stick around.

Cole Forbes (NZ U20 FB) is also supposed to have been training at Glasgow, has changed his location to Glasgow on Instagram, and allegedly is SQ.

I can’t say I watch much super rugby to judge for my self, however the general gist appears to be that this is an excellent signing. If he is as good as is being made out, he will be a fantastic player for Ollie Smith and Rufus McLean to learn from.

Apparently also able to play 10 and wing, so a good versatile and always available during international periods option.

Not SQ? I thought he was. I watched SR Aotearoa last year and he was definitely one that caught the eye, although mostly playing wing.

Great news on Forbes as well if that is true.

All Twitter talk, but the report on McKay was true, and I can confirm Cole Forbes does indeed list his Instagram location as Glasgow (I have an account to keep an eye on my teenager).

The Thistle Scottish Rugby podcast was lamenting that someone from the South Island called McKay could somehow not be SQ (Hootsmon report agrees) but also said Forbes is.

[Jock42]

Hastings back

[Begbie]

That's a couple of braw signings for the Weegies this week. Chuffed WP is staying on at Edinburgh too.

[Soapy]

That's a couple of braw signings for the Weegies this week. Chuffed WP is staying on at Edinburgh too.

Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.

It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.

[KingBlairhorn]

That's a couple of braw signings for the Weegies this week. Chuffed WP is staying on at Edinburgh too.

Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.

It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.

I agree with you, but playing Devil's advocate - if the coaches think they aren't good enough and never will be why would we reduce the chance of success for the pro teams by continually playing them?

[Tichtheid]

It might not be a huge surprise that WP is my favourite Edinburgh player, him extending his stay is brilliant news. He's never made any bones about how much he and his family love living in Edinburgh.

Now if he can spend the next couple of years picking Pier de Villiers' brains we will have ourselves a top class long term scrum coach.

[Soapy]

Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.

It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.

I agree with you, but playing Devil's advocate - if the coaches think they aren't good enough and never will be why would we reduce the chance of success for the pro teams by continually playing them?

It's a challenging balance to strike and no easy solution. To your Devil's advocate play, if these are the best young SQ players we have surely we need to accept that and do the best we can to develop whatever talent we have? I'd rather the clubs lost a few games while investing in bringing on SQ players as far as possible than not invest and watch the international team being scrummed off the park for the next decade.

My view is that Glasgow and Edinburgh are funded by the SRU and therefore need to play a role in developing players for the international team - especially in positions where we are short on options. If it means Cockerill or Wilson can't sign a SA or Tongan tight head, so be it.

I also agree with Gordon Reid that the Super 6 just isn't going to provide the competitive, physically challenging environment that is needed to develop locks and props and make them ready to play at a pro level.

So if a young prop or lock isn't in the immediate running for a pro club match day squad there is absolutely nowhere in the pro system for him to develop and attain that level.

Of course, if the pro teams were privately funded it's entirely different.

[KingBlairhorn]

Really pleased with WP signing. He's still by a long distance Scotland's best scrummaging TH. Having his game time managed may crucially keep him on the international stage for another season or even two.

It doesn't change the absence of younger SQ options. The SRU, Glasgow and Edinburgh really need to get a grip on that and prioritize the development of our TH pool. McCallum, Rae, Nicol etc. can't develop if they are never on the pitch.

I agree with you, but playing Devil's advocate - if the coaches think they aren't good enough and never will be why would we reduce the chance of success for the pro teams by continually playing them?

It's a challenging balance to strike and no easy solution. To your Devil's advocate play, if these are the best young SQ players we have surely we need to accept that and do the best we can to develop whatever talent we have? I'd rather the clubs lost a few games while investing in bringing on SQ players as far as possible than not invest and watch the international team being scrummed off the park for the next decade.

My view is that Glasgow and Edinburgh are funded by the SRU and therefore need to play a role in developing players for the international team - especially in positions where we are short on options. If it means Cockerill or Wilson can't sign a SA or Tongan tight head, so be it.

I also agree with Gordon Reid that the Super 6 just isn't going to provide the competitive, physically challenging environment that is needed to develop locks and props and make them ready to play at a pro level.

So if a young prop or lock isn't in the immediate running for a pro club match day squad there is absolutely nowhere in the pro system for him to develop and attain that level.

Of course, if the pro teams were privately funded it's entirely different.

That's not really how it works though, it's not these specific guys in this specific year group or nobody. Perhaps Edinburgh have decided that Murray McCallum has no chance but Grahamslaw or Gamble can go all the way - but they aren't quite ready for pro rugby this season. Do you waste effort on a player that will never make it, or do you use the best players you have until the young ones are ready to make an impact?

As it happens, I think all of McCallum, Rae and Nicol have been badly managed as all have shown in my opinion that they can cut it at Pro14 level. However, there is a reason I'm not a top level rugby coach, it's very possible those players are all just a bit shit.

[Soapy]

That's not really how it works though, it's not these specific guys in this specific year group or nobody. Perhaps Edinburgh have decided that Murray McCallum has no chance but Grahamslaw or Gamble can go all the way - but they aren't quite ready for pro rugby this season. Do you waste effort on a player that will never make it, or do you use the best players you have until the young ones are ready to make an impact?

As it happens, I think all of McCallum, Rae and Nicol have been badly managed as all have shown in my opinion that they can cut it at Pro14 level. However, there is a reason I'm not a top level rugby coach, it's very possible those players are all just a bit shit.

I think we are pretty aligned on this and I agree that that pool of THs has been badly managed.

I don't see this as a single year group or nobody issue. It's more that only a tiny number of homegrown props have been successfully brought on by the clubs in recent years - Sutherland and Fagerson? Nobody else immediately comes to mind. It seems like a poor return from the pool available now and in the recent past.

If the coaches are only willing to give an opportunity to the next Ewan Murray, we're constantly going to be short of even half decent SQ club props and likely only one injury (or red card ...) from a crisis at international level.

As a result, we've only got one truly international class TH available for the French game and he's 34. The drop off to Bergen is huge and its tumbleweed after that ...

[Tichtheid]

WP reacts to his new contract

[westport]

Edinburgh Rugby team to play Munster at BT Murrayfield in the Guinness PRO14
Saturday 20 February (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on Premier Sports

15. Damien Hoyland (77)
14. Jack Blain (8)
13. Mark Bennett (48)
12. Chris Dean (103)
11. Eroni Sau (17)
10. Jaco van der Walt (67)
9. Henry Pyrgos CO-CAPTAIN (44)
1.Pierre Schoeman (56)
2. David Cherry (31)
3. Lee-Roy Atalifo (3)
4. Andrew Davidson (10)
5. Grant Gilchrist CO-CAPTAIN (155)
6. Nick Haining (18)
7. Luke Crosbie (48)
8. Viliame Mata (81)

Substitutes:
16. Mike Willemse (31)
17. Boan Venter (0)
18. Murray McCallum (58)
19. Magnus Bradbury (89)
20. Ally Miller (19)
21. Charlie Shiel (26)
22. Nathan Chamberlain (6)
23. Matt Currie (0)

Unavailable through international selection (8): Simon Berghan, Rory Darge, Willem Nel, Jamie Ritchie, Rory Sutherland, George Taylor*, Duhan van der Merwe, Hamish Watson.

* Currently serving three-match suspension

[Jock42]

Anyone know anything about Currie? Matt not the spicy food.

Looking forward to seeing what Venter has to offer.

[Soapy]

Anyone know anything about Currie? Matt not the spicy food.

Looking forward to seeing what Venter has to offer.

Ex Merchiston Castle age group cap, centre, playing for Watsonians in the Super 6.

[Jock42]

Anyone know anything about Currie? Matt not the spicy food.

Looking forward to seeing what Venter has to offer.

Ex Merchiston Castle age group cap, centre, playing for Watsonians in the Super 6.

[KingBlairhorn]

Dupont positive for COVID and presumably out of next week’s match. Not sure how many have it so far?

[Caley_Red]

Dupont positive for COVID and presumably out of next week’s match. Not sure how many have it so far?

England beat Wales and we get a 28-0 walkover. . It's back on

[KingBlairhorn]

That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.

Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.

Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.

[KingBlairhorn]

Dupont positive for COVID and presumably out of next week’s match. Not sure how many have it so far?

England beat Wales and we get a 28-0 walkover. . It's back on

Ha, maybe! I genuinely hope not though, I’d rather lose than see a walkover. I saw a comment elsewhere that the 6N didn’t replicate the AI rules though and that there are no walkovers, just rescheduling.

[Begbie]

That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.

Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.

Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.

How did Hastings play? Reckon he'll be in the match day squad v France?

[Slick]

That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.

Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.

Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.

How did Hastings play? Reckon he'll be in the match day squad v France?

Came on to ask the same. The report I read said he did well. I’d have him straight back in

[KingBlairhorn]

That Glasgow game was a tough watch last night. It wasn’t too dissimilar to Scotland against Wales at times, dominant in territory and possession but no conversion into points.

Nakarawa is a shadow of himself, he threw a number of speculative offloads and tackled like an absolute fanny.

Jamie Dobie on the other hand, wow, what a player he is going to be. He is already a really good player at Pro14 level. If I was George Horne, I’d be wondering if choosing to stay another year was a bad decision, his spot could genuinely be under threat next year.

How did Hastings play? Reckon he'll be in the match day squad v France?

Came on to ask the same. The report I read said he did well. I’d have him straight back in

Solid I would say. He lasted around 55mins, kicked his kicks and got the ball wide on occasion. He mixed up the attack but didn’t produce anything exceptional.

[dkm57]

I though Hastings was good, shoulder still seemed to bothering though. Think he needs a bit more time. Dobbie was excellent.

Pack had a poor day at the office, set pieces were iffy tight 5 underpowered, loosies second best.

Backs looked very dangerous in attack but got out of shape a bit in defence.

Just my opinion though.

[Dogbert]

I thought both Hastings and Nakarawa were rank last night. sure both were short of game time , but so were everyone else

Hastings looks like he does things by numbers not a great reader of a game , can't get a back line going , runs into traffic getting isolated , his kicking was OK , but just OK , I really don't think Glasgow will miss him , Thomson looked by far the better option when he came on , I hope Wilson gives Thomson the game time he deserves

Nakawara was poor, a shadow of his former self , hope that Ulster get more out of him , constantly trying for that miracle offload , that simply was never on

These two are 'senior' players who did little to enhance that tag , Personally , and this is only my personal view , nether are any loss to Glasgow

Look at Rob Harley last night , a really good game , a real hard working pro , but in a real shift , body on the line , and no mean skill. Batman also had a really good performance , in a misfiring Glasgow team , Ryan has had possibly one of his best seasons

[clydecloggie]

Glasgow were pretty rank yesterday, lots of huff and puff but little else.

Ulster defence was magnificent, guys like Jones kept running into heavy traffic where they normally would have a few line breaks here an there - and that was all down to Ulster excellence.

Hastings tried to run too much for me, a bit more mixing it up would be better. But he showed his class, I really think he will be a big miss next season.

[I like neeps]

Glasgow were pretty rank yesterday, lots of huff and puff but little else.

Ulster defence was magnificent, guys like Jones kept running into heavy traffic where they normally would have a few line breaks here an there - and that was all down to Ulster excellence.

Hastings tried to run too much for me, a bit more mixing it up would be better. But he showed his class, I really think he will be a big miss next season.

Hastings is underrated. To say Hastings to Weir isn't a pretty big downgrade is errrr.

[Begbie]

Maitland and Taylor have a try each for Sarries.

[Biffer]

Maitland and Taylor have a try each for Sarries.

In a friendly against Coventry.