Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

[Biffer]

Petition asking the Chiefs to change their imagery. I think this is pretty well worded, not actually looking for a name change but wanting to get rid of the cultural appropriation. There’s a Celtic history to exeter so refocusing to Celtic chiefs and associated imagery, getting rid of the chop and the chant etc. is what’s needed

http://chng.it/tHQmd8qDZs

[Openside]

Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

[ASMO]

Petition asking the Chiefs to change their imagery. I think this is pretty well worded, not actually looking for a name change but wanting to get rid of the cultural appropriation. There’s a Celtic history to exeter so refocusing to Celtic chiefs and associated imagery, getting rid of the chop and the chant etc. is what’s needed

http://chng.it/tHQmd8qDZs

The chant annoys the hell out of me, it's more of a drone than a chant.

[Openside]

Petition asking the Chiefs to change their imagery. I think this is pretty well worded, not actually looking for a name change but wanting to get rid of the cultural appropriation. There’s a Celtic history to exeter so refocusing to Celtic chiefs and associated imagery, getting rid of the chop and the chant etc. is what’s needed

http://chng.it/tHQmd8qDZs

The chant annoys the hell out of me, it's more of a drone than a chant.

It works well with Harlequins too - I kinda like it.

[Biffer]

Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

[Paddington Bear]

Surprised it lasted this long really. They've got plenty of other chants.

[Hugo]

I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

I was under the impression that there has long been pressure on such teams to alter those elements, but they have yet to be swayed by any arguments and aren't feeling any fiscal pressure which would force them to act.

[Hugo]

I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

I was under the impression that there has long been pressure on such teams to alter those elements, but they have yet to be swayed by any arguments and aren't feeling any fiscal pressure which would force them to act.

Ok, thankyou.

[Biffer]

I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

I was under the impression that there has long been pressure on such teams to alter those elements, but they have yet to be swayed by any arguments and aren't feeling any fiscal pressure which would force them to act.

They're under a lot of pressure. The Cleveland Indians got rid of their cartoon logo last year and are considering their options. Florida State Seminoles have a longstanding agreement with the Seminoles Tribe of Florida which I think includes various education programmes and scholarships. The Redskins are under huge pressure but their owner is a prick who's digging his heels in and refusing to even talk about it.

[Biffer]

FedEx have publicly asked the Redskins to change their name. Nike have removed all Washington merchandise from their website. PepsiCo have made a similar request to FedEx.

[Akkerman]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ext-board/

Gallagher Premiership front-runners Exeter Chiefs will review the use of the club's Native American imagery at the club's next board meeting at the end of July.

The club's use of their 'Big Chief' mascot, 'Tomahawk Chop' chant and all First Nation or Native American imagery, including headdresses, has faced renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, with a petition started by a group of Exeter supporters for the club to change their brand gaining 2,800 signatures.

"I do believe that Exeter Chiefs are a great club who do so many great things both on the pitch and off it," Ben, a season ticket holder for seven years, recently told Telegraph Sport.

"During the last few years, I have also learnt about the offence that [the branding] causes, having your culture, your identity appropriated by sports teams. The headdress or warbonnet is revered in many cultures, and we use it as a way to play fancy dress."

NFL franchise Washington announced on Monday that the team would drop the 'Redskins' name and logo, the first time an NFL franchise has changed their name without moving cities since 1999, after facing increased pressure from sponsors and Native American groups in the United States regarding their use of the racist name.

"We commend the Washington NFL team for eliminating a brand that disrespected, demeaned, and stereotyped all Native people, and we call on all other sports teams and corporate brands to retire all caricatures of Native Americans that they use as their mascots," read a statement from the National Congress of American Indians.

A counter petition started by another group of Exeter supporters, claiming that the use of Native American imagery is to "honour and respect their cultural beliefs", has so far amassed 2,000 signatures.

Exeter adopted the Chiefs moniker in 1999 and earned promotion to the Premiership for the first time 10 years ago, before winning the title in 2017.

[Yeeb]

Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

[sockwithaticket]

No need to drop the Chiefs part, just re-orient to Briton imagery or something.

[Ali Cadoo]

I hope someone’s had a quiet word with Dale MacIntosh, too.

[Biffer]

Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Jesus.

[Caley_Red]

The Highlanders next!

[.OverThere]

First Nation? Indigenous?
Which language were these names appropriated from?

[Raggs]

What would be wrong with using celtic chief imagery?

[Caley_Red]

Are you familiar with the phrase tongue in cheek or facetious?

Although, let's play your game- give me the set parameters by which you would define indigenous or 'first nation' and tell me what languages count for special treatment and why?

[.OverThere]

I'm always a bit wary of the concept of cultural appropriation as something that is to be frowned upon.
It has been part of the make up of human society since the very beginning. Without continuous cultural appropriation our civilisation would not exist.
Without appropriation a culture will die.

[mat the expat]

Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Edgy and Fuckwit are closely related....

[FujiKiwi]

I'm always a bit wary of the concept of cultural appropriation as something that is to be frowned upon.
It has been part of the make up of human society since the very beginning. Without continuous cultural appropriation our civilisation would not exist.
Without appropriation a culture will die.

A staggeringly stupid post, in context.

There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

[Tilly Orifice]

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Edgy and Fuckwit are closely related....

That's not cultural appropriation anyway, it's cultural imperialism. We're at fault there too.

[.OverThere]

I'm always a bit wary of the concept of cultural appropriation as something that is to be frowned upon.
It has been part of the make up of human society since the very beginning. Without continuous cultural appropriation our civilisation would not exist.
Without appropriation a culture will die.

A staggeringly stupid post, in context.

There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

Yes, you could call the difference appropriation, and misappropriation.

[Yeeb]

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Edgy and Fuckwit are closely related....

That's not cultural appropriation anyway, it's cultural imperialism. We're at fault there too.

I see. So white person = evil and bad, anyone non white = oppressed by imperialism and therefore can do what they want

Amazed at how one directional all this outrage is, which is my real wtf issue - can handle the usual ‘ooh edgy post’ condemnation. Africa has lots of ‘Elvis stores’ which are hairdresser and beauty parlours for Africans, usually with a big picture of (shock horror) Elvis Presley who isn’t black and generally admired for being talented and extremely handsome and with good hair. Appropriation of culture works in every direction.

[FujiKiwi]

If you can't see the difference between getting an Elvis-style haircut and mimicking a crass. offensive stereotype at a sports game, you suffer from a colossal lack of discernment.

[assfly]

There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

Who gets to decide the difference?

[FujiKiwi]

There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

Who gets to decide the difference?

The difference is objectively there. You see it. I see it. If you can't see the difference between sharing ideas and ridiculing someone's culture, you should obviously sit out the conversation. I don't actually believe you're that dumb.

[JM2K6]

There's been a good few alternative designs thought up for a "Chiefs" logo that refers to the Dumnonii tribes that used to be in the area. The designs looked neat, just amateur stuff but looked a lot better than the native American caricature.

[assfly]

The difference is objectively there. You see it. I see it. If you can't see the difference between sharing ideas and ridiculing someone's culture, you should obviously sit out the conversation. I don't actually believe you're that dumb.

What a ridiculous answer to a genuine question.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd like to know who should decide the difference. You can't just tell me that I see it.

[FujiKiwi]

There's been a good few alternative designs thought up for a "Chiefs" logo that refers to the Dumnonii tribes that used to be in the area. The designs looked neat, just amateur stuff but looked a lot better than the native American caricature.

Watch out for the edgy posters rocking up to the thread to say how offensive that would be to the Dumnonii who were oppressed by the Romans or Iceni or whatever. Drawing a false equivalence between that and the tribes who were brutalized a few generations ago and are still suffering injustice today.

[Yeeb]

If you can't see the difference between getting an Elvis-style haircut and mimicking a crass. offensive stereotype at a sports game, you suffer from a colossal lack of discernment.

If they were mimicking alchohol abuse or dying from smallpox or hunting buffalo then fair enough, but it’s a sports fan gesture same as say sarries and their wavy fingers ?
(Presume you are against saracens and wearing Fez hats too)

The main difference is who and what is deemed to be offensive , not the actual action - and this is extremely easy to discern. Is there really such a thing as offensive stereotype of Native American Indians using a tomahawk? Surely it’s up there with welsh longbowman / Scots claymores / Swiss pikemen for historical fact?

Perhaps Exeter should now become Exeter cowboys and pretend to shoot one another with their fingers, using an action of an old weapon.

[JM2K6]

There's been a good few alternative designs thought up for a "Chiefs" logo that refers to the Dumnonii tribes that used to be in the area. The designs looked neat, just amateur stuff but looked a lot better than the native American caricature.

Watch out for the edgy posters rocking up to the thread to say how offensive that would be to the Dumnonii who were oppressed by the Romans or Iceni or whatever. Drawing a false equivalence between that and the tribes who were brutalized a few generations ago and are still suffering injustice today.

Oh, I'm happy to ignore them.

Exeter celebrating their history would be a huge improvement over what we have now.

[JM2K6]

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... al-1139539

Comments from a Native American who lives in Exeter and is a former cultural ambassador to a Sioux tribe, so knows what she's talking about. It should clear up some of the questions.

[FujiKiwi]

The difference is objectively there. You see it. I see it. If you can't see the difference between sharing ideas and ridiculing someone's culture, you should obviously sit out the conversation. I don't actually believe you're that dumb.

What a ridiculous answer to a genuine question.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd like to know who should decide the difference. You can't just tell me that I see it.

How genuine a question is it, though? This is not rocket science. If you don't understand the difference between being influenced by something or caricaturing it, look up a dictionary for the meaning of those words. If you claim not to understand it, you are being disingenuous.

[Yeeb]

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... al-1139539

Comments from a Native American who lives in Exeter and is a former cultural ambassador to a Sioux tribe, so knows what she's talking about. It should clear up some of the questions.

Interesting article, she states her point well and I admire how she said she’d act to try and come up with respectful imagery and chants and stuff. Biggest reason why Exeter should probably just rebrand , is that they only came up with it all 20 odd years ago so don't really have any ties or anything historic linking them. She certainly states her point of view in a measured way, unlike some on here..

[bessantj]

Bit of an aside but when I first saw Exeter's mascot I thought the mouth was a mustache so he looked a bit like Blakey from On The Buses.

[Yeeb]

Is somebody of pure European heritage, now in NZ and performing the Haka, any different in terms of cultural appropriation ? Certainly some of the hand movements are similar to a chopping motion done at exeter.

[Yeeb]

Bit of an aside but when I first saw Exeter's mascot I thought the mouth was a mustache so he looked a bit like Blakey from On The Buses.

That would be “grrrrrr i’ll Get you Eddie Butler you see if I don’t !”