The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Begbie]

Was just coming on to ask if anyone had ideas as to who it could be?

Just announced, it's Ben Vellacott.

Groom is moving on isn't he?

EDIT: I assume he'll get involved with Scotland now

Groom and Pyrgos are both out of contract at the end of the season. One of them will go, the Burgh watch blog reckons it will be Hank.

[robmatic]

Just announced, it's Ben Vellacott.

Groom is moving on isn't he?

EDIT: I assume he'll get involved with Scotland now

Groom and Pyrgos are both out of contract at the end of the season. One of them will go, the Burgh watch blog reckons it will be Hank.

Pyrgos has been struggling to recover from his injuries apparently.

[Tichtheid]

Groom is moving on isn't he?

EDIT: I assume he'll get involved with Scotland now

Groom and Pyrgos are both out of contract at the end of the season. One of them will go, the Burgh watch blog reckons it will be Hank.

Pyrgos has been struggling to recover from his injuries apparently.

It would be a real shame if that is how he has to retire.

[I like neeps]

How exactly is Ben Vallacott who is flair rather than function scrum half going to mesh will all function no flair Richard Cockerill? Compete for Shiel's 20 minute sub appearance as Groom/Pyrgos pop pass to to a Gilchrist to make a 0 meter carry I wonder.

[sockwithaticket]

Hope you lot get more use out of him than we (Wasps) have. Obviously there's still plenty of season to go, but he's very much 3rd/4th choice at Wasps. The only reason he's been getting game time is Robson being away with England and our 2 youngsters getting injured.

[Jock42]

Just announced, it's Ben Vellacott.

Groom is moving on isn't he?

EDIT: I assume he'll get involved with Scotland now

I hadn't heard that about Groom moving on.

It's more than possible I've made that up. Perhaps I read he was out of contract like Begbie said and made an assumption.

[I like neeps]

Hope you lot get more use out of him than we (Wasps) have. Obviously there's still plenty of season to go, but he's very much 3rd/4th choice at Wasps. The only reason he's been getting game time is Robson being away with England and our 2 youngsters getting injured.

Do you know why he's fourth choice? Is it a game management problem? His skill level isn't where it needs to be? I watched a few Wasps games earlier this season and Porter and the other guy looked inconsistent.

[Yr Alban]

Interesting that we’ve been discussing how playing for Scotland has become more attractive in recent times, and then suddenly Vellacott is interested in being Scottish again.

Somehow I’m OK with Redpath’s wavering allegiances, but a bit less so with Vellacott’s. Redpath switched to England at U20, and would probably have been happy to be an England player if he had been capped on that summer tour, but when Toony named him in the squad (after much negotiation, I expect) he was happy to come and play for us. That suggests to me that his loyalties were genuinely divided. Vellacott played for us all the way up through the age grades, but when he was named in a full squad, he made himself unavailable. That made me think he didn’t really consider himself Scottish and that he was using us as a flag of convenience.

Maybe that’s unfair on the guy, but I hope he has to earn a place in our team on the pitch.

[Tichtheid]

Interesting that we’ve been discussing how playing for Scotland has become more attractive in recent times, and then suddenly Vellacott is interested in being Scottish again.

Somehow I’m OK with Redpath’s wavering allegiances, but a bit less so with Vellacott’s. Redpath switched to England at U20, and would probably have been happy to be an England player if he had been capped on that summer tour, but when Toony named him in the squad (after much negotiation, I expect) he was happy to come and play for us. That suggests to me that his loyalties were genuinely divided. Vellacott played for us all the way up through the age grades, but when he was named in a full squad, he made himself unavailable. That made me think he didn’t really consider himself Scottish and that he was using us as a flag of convenience.

Maybe that’s unfair on the guy, but I hope he has to earn a place in our team on the pitch.

To be honest I think there is enough competition right now to keep everything ticketyboo regarding his selection for Scotland, we've got Price, Horne, Steele, Hidalgo-Clyne, Shiel and Dobie as well as Vellacott just now, that's assuming Pyrgos is crocked

[sockwithaticket]

Hope you lot get more use out of him than we (Wasps) have. Obviously there's still plenty of season to go, but he's very much 3rd/4th choice at Wasps. The only reason he's been getting game time is Robson being away with England and our 2 youngsters getting injured.

Do you know why he's fourth choice? Is it a game management problem? His skill level isn't where it needs to be? I watched a few Wasps games earlier this season and Porter and the other guy looked inconsistent.

Robson's very much number 1, without him we're a much different team. Porter and Wolstenholme, from my observations, offer quicker decision making and service than Vellacott as well as better decisions in general. Would definitely say that game management is an issue, in general we're finding it difficult to spend much time in the opposition half at the moment and that was very pronounced in the Leicester game a couple of weeks ago whuch Vellacott played the entirety of on account of us only having emergency injury cover from the Pirates on the bench.

[robmatic]

Hope you lot get more use out of him than we (Wasps) have. Obviously there's still plenty of season to go, but he's very much 3rd/4th choice at Wasps. The only reason he's been getting game time is Robson being away with England and our 2 youngsters getting injured.

Do you know why he's fourth choice? Is it a game management problem? His skill level isn't where it needs to be? I watched a few Wasps games earlier this season and Porter and the other guy looked inconsistent.

Robson's very much number 1, without him we're a much different team. Porter and Wolstenholme, from my observations, offer quicker decision making and service than Vellacott as well as better decisions in general. Would definitely say that game management is an issue, in general we're finding it difficult to spend much time in the opposition half at the moment and that was very pronounced in the Leicester game a couple of weeks ago whuch Vellacott played the entirety of on account of us only having emergency injury cover from the Pirates on the bench.

Richard Cockerill will love that.

[KingBlairhorn]

I can't imagine there is much more in the way of announcements to come from Edinburgh, but perhaps one or two to go out. Altogether the squad looks stronger to me in most positions with the obvious exception wing.

My current depthchart (roughly top 3 per position) would be sopmething like:

LH: Sutherland; Schoeman; Grahamslaw
TH: Nel; Venter; McCallum/Atalifo
Hooker: McInally; Cherry; Willemse
Locks: Toolis; Gilchrist; Young; Carmichael/Davidson/Hodgson/Sykes
Blindside: Richie; Bradbury;
Openside: Watson; Crosbie; Kunavula/Miller/Boyle;
8: Mata; Haining; Darge/Muncaster

Scrumhalf: Groom/Pyrgos; Vellacott; Shiel
Flyhalf: Van der Walt; Chamberlain; Savala
Inside Centre: Lang; Johnstone; Currie
Outside Centre: Bennett; Dean; Taylor
Wing: Graham; Sau; Blain/Hoyland/Farndale
Fullback: Kinghorn

In the forwards during international weeks there will be key weaknesses: the starting loosehead could conceivably be Grahamslaw who I can't say I know much about. I think Toolis and Gilchrist are unlikely to both be in international squads together short of an injury crisis which means Edinburgh will be well stocked - you have to wonder how much playing time the 4 younger guys will command. There are billions of very good Proxx standard backrows most of whom can play multiple positions so no worries there, although I think most agree it wouldn't be particularly surprising to see at least one head down the M8 to Glasgow.

In the backs one of the current senior scrumhalves will likely move on with strong rumours it wull Pyrgos to retirement due to persistent injury. At flyhalf VdW is unlikely to be away with Scotland too often especially with Weir back at Glasgow, but Lang can also cover to avoid leaving the two young guys holding the fort. At centre the likely starting partnership is Lang/Bennett and again I can't see both being away too often together with Scotland. The key weaknesses for me in the backs are left wing with Duhan gone and cover at left wing: none of the options available are inspiring so Sau is probably the best available. Hopefully Blain can continue his rise next season and cement that spot.

There are generally a few surprises in the season with guys making the jump from academy to pro level, so hopefully there will be a couple more names to add to the chart by the end of the season. Altogether I think fairly healthy and good enough to finish considerably higher in the competition than this year.

[I like neeps]

Good writeup King Blairhorn but Venter is LH and rumours are Edinburgh have signed Luan De Bruin at TH.

Also Venter the metronomic South African teenager is on a professional contract now so would expect he's on the centre depth chart. As is Korie Winters the kiwi wing.

[Big D]

I can't imagine there is much more in the way of announcements to come from Edinburgh, but perhaps one or two to go out. Altogether the squad looks stronger to me in most positions with the obvious exception wing.

My current depthchart (roughly top 3 per position) would be sopmething like:

LH: Sutherland; Schoeman; Grahamslaw
TH: Nel; Venter; McCallum/Atalifo
Hooker: McInally; Cherry; Willemse
Locks: Toolis; Gilchrist; Young; Carmichael/Davidson/Hodgson/Sykes
Blindside: Richie; Bradbury;
Openside: Watson; Crosbie; Kunavula/Miller/Boyle;
8: Mata; Haining; Darge/Muncaster

Scrumhalf: Groom/Pyrgos; Vellacott; Shiel
Flyhalf: Van der Walt; Chamberlain; Savala
Inside Centre: Lang; Johnstone; Currie
Outside Centre: Bennett; Dean; Taylor
Wing: Graham; Sau; Blain/Hoyland/Farndale
Fullback: Kinghorn

In the forwards during international weeks there will be key weaknesses: the starting loosehead could conceivably be Grahamslaw who I can't say I know much about. I think Toolis and Gilchrist are unlikely to both be in international squads together short of an injury crisis which means Edinburgh will be well stocked - you have to wonder how much playing time the 4 younger guys will command. There are billions of very good Proxx standard backrows most of whom can play multiple positions so no worries there, although I think most agree it wouldn't be particularly surprising to see at least one head down the M8 to Glasgow.

In the backs one of the current senior scrumhalves will likely move on with strong rumours it wull Pyrgos to retirement due to persistent injury. At flyhalf VdW is unlikely to be away with Scotland too often especially with Weir back at Glasgow, but Lang can also cover to avoid leaving the two young guys holding the fort. At centre the likely starting partnership is Lang/Bennett and again I can't see both being away too often together with Scotland. The key weaknesses for me in the backs are left wing with Duhan gone and cover at left wing: none of the options available are inspiring so Sau is probably the best available. Hopefully Blain can continue his rise next season and cement that spot.

There are generally a few surprises in the season with guys making the jump from academy to pro level, so hopefully there will be a couple more names to add to the chart by the end of the season. Altogether I think fairly healthy and good enough to finish considerably higher in the competition than this year.

I really admire your optimism. Edinburgh have been so poor since the resumption of rugby and none of the signings look to be significant upgrades.

I think Edinburgh are in danger of trying the same things and expecting the same results. The starting XV is yet to be confirmed as stronger than last/this years and if Groom is stepping up to replace Pyrgos as 1st choice 9 then it is a weaker starting XV especially with the way the likes of Gilchrist has been playing.

Over the last few months I have increasingly felt the time for the coaching staff is up. I honestly can't shake that view.

Davidson is signed to Gloucs.

[I like neeps]

Lang is a real upgrade on Dean and Taylor I think. Dean and Taylor look out of their depth when playing the better quality Pro14 sides and neither are getting 5 Scotland caps or 50 Premiership games. I don't think he's better than Matt Scott who was holding the backline together.

I agree with you about coaching. Change is due.

[Big D]

Lang is a real upgrade on Dean and Taylor I think. Dean and Taylor look out of their depth when playing the better quality Pro14 sides and neither are getting 5 Scotland caps or 50 Premiership games. I don't think he's better than Matt Scott who was holding the backline together.

I agree with you about coaching. Change is due.

I haven't seen anything from Lang that suggests he is that big an upgrade. 50 games for Quins mostly as a squad player rather than 1st choice doesn't inspire that much confidence that he is the key signing to help the team move forward.Is he better than them, aye, but from what I have seen and once plunked in this system I am not sure we can say significantly better.

The squad going into next season is worse than the squad that reached the ko stages of the league last year. It is made worse by the style of rugby to be fair.

[I like neeps]

Lang is a real upgrade on Dean and Taylor I think. Dean and Taylor look out of their depth when playing the better quality Pro14 sides and neither are getting 5 Scotland caps or 50 Premiership games. I don't think he's better than Matt Scott who was holding the backline together.

I agree with you about coaching. Change is due.

I haven't seen anything from Lang that suggests he is that big an upgrade. 50 games for Quins mostly as a squad player rather than 1st choice doesn't inspire that much confidence that he is the key signing to help the team move forward.Is he better than them, aye, but from what I have seen and once plunked in this system I am not sure we can say significantly better.

The squad going into next season is worse than the squad that reached the ko stages of the league last year. It is made worse by the style of rugby to be fair.

No he's not set the heather alight but ask yourself how Dean and Taylor would look playing for Scotland. Almost definitely worse than Lang has I think. Dean is average at everything and Taylor is a bosh carrier which has its place but in international rugby you need to be really very effective if that's all you offer and he just isn't.

Definitely agree it's not as good as last year's squad but that's because Scott and VdM were two of the better players. I think the style is exactly the same but the forwards aren't going forward and the backs without Scott and VdM offer absolutely nothing so the chickens have come to roost.

[Big D]

Lang is a real upgrade on Dean and Taylor I think. Dean and Taylor look out of their depth when playing the better quality Pro14 sides and neither are getting 5 Scotland caps or 50 Premiership games. I don't think he's better than Matt Scott who was holding the backline together.

I agree with you about coaching. Change is due.

I haven't seen anything from Lang that suggests he is that big an upgrade. 50 games for Quins mostly as a squad player rather than 1st choice doesn't inspire that much confidence that he is the key signing to help the team move forward.Is he better than them, aye, but from what I have seen and once plunked in this system I am not sure we can say significantly better.

The squad going into next season is worse than the squad that reached the ko stages of the league last year. It is made worse by the style of rugby to be fair.

No he's not set the heather alight but ask yourself how Dean and Taylor would look playing for Scotland. Almost definitely worse than Lang has I think. Dean is average at everything and Taylor is a bosh carrier which has its place but in international rugby you need to be really very effective if that's all you offer and he just isn't.

Definitely agree it's not as good as last year's squad but that's because Scott and VdM were two of the better players. I think the style is exactly the same but the forwards aren't going forward and the backs without Scott and VdM offer absolutely nothing so the chickens have come to roost.

Ach I am just in a filthy mood but I think it will be tough sledding for Edinburgh next year.

[Caley_Red]

I haven't seen anything from Lang that suggests he is that big an upgrade. 50 games for Quins mostly as a squad player rather than 1st choice doesn't inspire that much confidence that he is the key signing to help the team move forward.Is he better than them, aye, but from what I have seen and once plunked in this system I am not sure we can say significantly better.

The squad going into next season is worse than the squad that reached the ko stages of the league last year. It is made worse by the style of rugby to be fair.

No he's not set the heather alight but ask yourself how Dean and Taylor would look playing for Scotland. Almost definitely worse than Lang has I think. Dean is average at everything and Taylor is a bosh carrier which has its place but in international rugby you need to be really very effective if that's all you offer and he just isn't.

Definitely agree it's not as good as last year's squad but that's because Scott and VdM were two of the better players. I think the style is exactly the same but the forwards aren't going forward and the backs without Scott and VdM offer absolutely nothing so the chickens have come to roost.

Ach I am just in a filthy mood but I think it will be tough sledding for Edinburgh next year.

I think with minifield and the return of fans, Edinburgh's fortunes may take a turn for the better.

[clydecloggie]

Reports on Twitter that the SRU have agreed to play the France game in Paris on Friday 26 March, after that date was first agreed between the FFR and the Top14 clubs. Apparently the English Premiership has agreed the release of all Scotland players based in England.

Would mean two 6-day turnarounds back-to-back. Probably the most minor of possible shafts but it is still a shaft.

Although I'm happy the game will be played - much better than forfeits etc. and at least it will give France their richly deserved Grand Slam.

[Tichtheid]

Reports on Twitter that the SRU have agreed to play the France game in Paris on Friday 26 March, after that date was first agreed between the FFR and the Top14 clubs. Apparently the English Premiership has agreed the release of all Scotland players based in England.

Would mean two 6-day turnarounds back-to-back. Probably the most minor of possible shafts but it is still a shaft.

Although I'm happy the game will be played - much better than forfeits etc. and at least it will give France their richly deserved Grand Slam.

I hope this doesn't derail Edinburgh's Heineken Cup campaign
(cough)

I think this is probably the best outcome from a shit situation, tbh.

[Biffer]

I can't imagine there is much more in the way of announcements to come from Edinburgh, but perhaps one or two to go out. Altogether the squad looks stronger to me in most positions with the obvious exception wing.

My current depthchart (roughly top 3 per position) would be sopmething like:

LH: Sutherland; Schoeman; Grahamslaw
TH: Nel; Venter; McCallum/Atalifo
Hooker: McInally; Cherry; Willemse
Locks: Toolis; Gilchrist; Young; Carmichael/Davidson/Hodgson/Sykes
Blindside: Richie; Bradbury;
Openside: Watson; Crosbie; Kunavula/Miller/Boyle;
8: Mata; Haining; Darge/Muncaster

Scrumhalf: Groom/Pyrgos; Vellacott; Shiel
Flyhalf: Van der Walt; Chamberlain; Savala
Inside Centre: Lang; Johnstone; Currie
Outside Centre: Bennett; Dean; Taylor
Wing: Graham; Sau; Blain/Hoyland/Farndale
Fullback: Kinghorn

In the forwards during international weeks there will be key weaknesses: the starting loosehead could conceivably be Grahamslaw who I can't say I know much about. I think Toolis and Gilchrist are unlikely to both be in international squads together short of an injury crisis which means Edinburgh will be well stocked - you have to wonder how much playing time the 4 younger guys will command. There are billions of very good Proxx standard backrows most of whom can play multiple positions so no worries there, although I think most agree it wouldn't be particularly surprising to see at least one head down the M8 to Glasgow.

In the backs one of the current senior scrumhalves will likely move on with strong rumours it wull Pyrgos to retirement due to persistent injury. At flyhalf VdW is unlikely to be away with Scotland too often especially with Weir back at Glasgow, but Lang can also cover to avoid leaving the two young guys holding the fort. At centre the likely starting partnership is Lang/Bennett and again I can't see both being away too often together with Scotland. The key weaknesses for me in the backs are left wing with Duhan gone and cover at left wing: none of the options available are inspiring so Sau is probably the best available. Hopefully Blain can continue his rise next season and cement that spot.

There are generally a few surprises in the season with guys making the jump from academy to pro level, so hopefully there will be a couple more names to add to the chart by the end of the season. Altogether I think fairly healthy and good enough to finish considerably higher in the competition than this year.

Boan Venter is a loosehead - brought in specifically because Schoeman will be Scotland eligible. Short one TH in my opinion, although it'd be good to see McCallum finally step up. We seem to have been saying we were well stocked at lock every season for the last few, and ended up in an injury crisis.

[Biffer]

Lang is a real upgrade on Dean and Taylor I think. Dean and Taylor look out of their depth when playing the better quality Pro14 sides and neither are getting 5 Scotland caps or 50 Premiership games. I don't think he's better than Matt Scott who was holding the backline together.

I agree with you about coaching. Change is due.

I haven't seen anything from Lang that suggests he is that big an upgrade. 50 games for Quins mostly as a squad player rather than 1st choice doesn't inspire that much confidence that he is the key signing to help the team move forward.Is he better than them, aye, but from what I have seen and once plunked in this system I am not sure we can say significantly better.

The squad going into next season is worse than the squad that reached the ko stages of the league last year. It is made worse by the style of rugby to be fair.

No he's not set the heather alight but ask yourself how Dean and Taylor would look playing for Scotland. Almost definitely worse than Lang has I think. Dean is average at everything and Taylor is a bosh carrier which has its place but in international rugby you need to be really very effective if that's all you offer and he just isn't.

Definitely agree it's not as good as last year's squad but that's because Scott and VdM were two of the better players. I think the style is exactly the same but the forwards aren't going forward and the backs without Scott and VdM offer absolutely nothing so the chickens have come to roost.

Have any of us really seen enough of Taylor to just write him off as a bosh merchant? He's had all of 16 professional starts, and a period out with injury.

[KingBlairhorn]

I can't imagine there is much more in the way of announcements to come from Edinburgh, but perhaps one or two to go out. Altogether the squad looks stronger to me in most positions with the obvious exception wing.

My current depthchart (roughly top 3 per position) would be sopmething like:

LH: Sutherland; Schoeman; Venter
TH: Nel; De Bruin; McCallum/Atalifo
Hooker: McInally; Cherry; Willemse
Locks: Toolis; Gilchrist; Young; Carmichael/Hodgson/Sykes
Blindside: Richie; Bradbury;
Openside: Watson; Crosbie; Kunavula/Miller/Boyle;
8: Mata; Haining; Darge/Muncaster

Scrumhalf: Groom/Pyrgos; Vellacott; Shiel
Flyhalf: Van der Walt; Chamberlain; Savala
Inside Centre: Lang; Johnstone; Currie
Outside Centre: Bennett; Dean; Taylor
Wing: Graham; Sau; Blain/Hoyland/Farndale
Fullback: Kinghorn

In the forwards during international weeks there will be key weaknesses: the starting loosehead could conceivably be Grahamslaw who I can't say I know much about. I think Toolis and Gilchrist are unlikely to both be in international squads together short of an injury crisis which means Edinburgh will be well stocked - you have to wonder how much playing time the 4 younger guys will command. There are billions of very good Proxx standard backrows most of whom can play multiple positions so no worries there, although I think most agree it wouldn't be particularly surprising to see at least one head down the M8 to Glasgow.

In the backs one of the current senior scrumhalves will likely move on with strong rumours it wull Pyrgos to retirement due to persistent injury. At flyhalf VdW is unlikely to be away with Scotland too often especially with Weir back at Glasgow, but Lang can also cover to avoid leaving the two young guys holding the fort. At centre the likely starting partnership is Lang/Bennett and again I can't see both being away too often together with Scotland. The key weaknesses for me in the backs are left wing with Duhan gone and cover at left wing: none of the options available are inspiring so Sau is probably the best available. Hopefully Blain can continue his rise next season and cement that spot.

There are generally a few surprises in the season with guys making the jump from academy to pro level, so hopefully there will be a couple more names to add to the chart by the end of the season. Altogether I think fairly healthy and good enough to finish considerably higher in the competition than this year.

Boan Venter is a loosehead - brought in specifically because Schoeman will be Scotland eligible. Short one TH in my opinion, although it'd be good to see McCallum finally step up. We seem to have been saying we were well stocked at lock every season for the last few, and ended up in an injury crisis.

Yes, you are right of course. I have also missed off De Bruin as Neeps said. I stand by my view that the squad is stronger than this year. I agree that Matt Scott was a big loss, but that is irrelevant to whether the squad is better than the current season as he left the year before. There has only been one significant departure in Duhan, all the young players are one season better and a number of senior players will fall away from their international commitments due to the other options we have available at that level. Cherry, Gilchrist, Toolis, Bradbury, Haining, Crosbie, Van der Walt, Lang, Bennett and Kinghorn are currently all on the fringes of the international squad at best, some won't make the squads at all. That is the core of a team that can and should be better than the current standings at Pro14 level. The introduction of the SA teams might be a rude awakening during international weeks right enough, but hopefully the tournament organisers will be smart enough to schedule all SA derbies during the Six Nations weeks.

[I like neeps]

I haven't seen anything from Lang that suggests he is that big an upgrade. 50 games for Quins mostly as a squad player rather than 1st choice doesn't inspire that much confidence that he is the key signing to help the team move forward.Is he better than them, aye, but from what I have seen and once plunked in this system I am not sure we can say significantly better.

The squad going into next season is worse than the squad that reached the ko stages of the league last year. It is made worse by the style of rugby to be fair.

No he's not set the heather alight but ask yourself how Dean and Taylor would look playing for Scotland. Almost definitely worse than Lang has I think. Dean is average at everything and Taylor is a bosh carrier which has its place but in international rugby you need to be really very effective if that's all you offer and he just isn't.

Definitely agree it's not as good as last year's squad but that's because Scott and VdM were two of the better players. I think the style is exactly the same but the forwards aren't going forward and the backs without Scott and VdM offer absolutely nothing so the chickens have come to roost.

Have any of us really seen enough of Taylor to just write him off as a bosh merchant? He's had all of 16 professional starts, and a period out with injury.

In those 16 games and Melrose/the club international/under20s he's been used as a powerful runner. He's 24 now, he's not going to turn into a second playmaker. I'd be glad to be wrong of course. But he is a bosh bosh centre. Which is needed! But as a squad guy.

[Big D]

Yes, you are right of course. I have also missed off De Bruin as Neeps said. I stand by my view that the squad is stronger than this year. I agree that Matt Scott was a big loss, but that is irrelevant to whether the squad is better than the current season as he left the year before. There has only been one significant departure in Duhan, all the young players are one season better and a number of senior players will fall away from their international commitments due to the other options we have available at that level. Cherry, Gilchrist, Toolis, Bradbury, Haining, Crosbie, Van der Walt, Lang, Bennett and Kinghorn are currently all on the fringes of the international squad at best, some won't make the squads at all. That is the core of a team that can and should be better than the current standings at Pro14 level. The introduction of the SA teams might be a rude awakening during international weeks right enough, but hopefully the tournament organisers will be smart enough to schedule all SA derbies during the Six Nations weeks.

In a better mood today :) so could be swayed by your argument. I would contend though that better league performance wouldn't necessarily indicate a better squad as the best players should be available more often than this year. If some of the players you mention raise it a level then it might be a better squad than I had been giving them credit for yesterday but there are players now who aren't the player they were a year ago. Squad depth is good, but the quality of squad only raised if the top end maintains or improves on their performance rather than regress.

[Begbie]

Townsend, Farrell and Mitchell are being lined up by Gatland for his Lions coaching team, according to the Telegraph.

Wonder if having Toony involved will help with any of the so called 50/50 calls

[Soapy]

Townsend, Farrell and Mitchell are being lined up by Gatland for his Lions coaching team, according to the Telegraph.

Wonder if having Toony involved will help with any of the so called 50/50 calls

You've got to hope so. It would be hard for Townsend to keep credibility with his players if all the close calls go against the Scots as per recent tours.

Of course, the calls become less close if we fail to beat at least one of France or Ireland in the upcoming 6N games. Or, being Scotland, manage regardless to give Italy a confidence boosting win ...

[I like neeps]

Townsend, Farrell and Mitchell are being lined up by Gatland for his Lions coaching team, according to the Telegraph.

Wonder if having Toony involved will help with any of the so called 50/50 calls

You've got to hope so. It would be hard for Townsend to keep credibility with his players if all the close calls go against the Scots as per recent tours.

Of course, the calls become less close if we fail to beat at least one of France or Ireland in the upcoming 6N games. Or, being Scotland, manage regardless to give Italy a confidence boosting win ...

It's quite risky for Townsend for that reason. Don't go and loads of Scots miss on marginal calls. Go and have to explain to Ali Price why he wasn't on tour.

I expect Hogg to go. I would be absolutely gutted if Watson didn't make it. But other than that I don't think lions selection will upset me too much.

[Jock42]

Have any fixtures for the summer been (re)arranged for Scotland? Would be interesting to see who takes the lead if he goes.

[C T]

I've done myself the disservice of re-watching the Wales game.

There are a few things we really need to work on, well two cruical ones came to my mind:

Maul defence: They just splintered us almost at will it seemed, our only answers appeared to be to give away loads of meters of infringe.
Making more of chances: I've just seen the stat that we beat 27 defenders vs their 6, yet they scored 4 tries vs our 3.

I didn't realise until re-watching that InrDru's break at the end, Rees-Zammit slipped so if it wasn't for that amazing tap tackle he was through I think. After re-watching I'm stll not sure how the welsh 13 made that without some sort of go-go-gadgit arms thing going on.

Overall I'm not all doom and gloom after having another watch. There were a few things that went Wales' way and a few things that went against us, if any of these things didn't happen I reckon we win.

I am still frustrated though. If we beat Ireland it might just show that mentally we've turned a corner bouncing back from this, but if not it is a worry.

[Yr Alban]

I've done myself the disservice of re-watching the Wales game.

There are a few things we really need to work on, well two cruical ones came to my mind:

Maul defence: They just splintered us almost at will it seemed, our only answers appeared to be to give away loads of meters of infringe.
Making more of chances: I've just seen the stat that we beat 27 defenders vs their 6, yet they scored 4 tries vs our 3.

I didn't realise until re-watching that InrDru's break at the end, Rees-Zammit slipped so if it wasn't for that amazing tap tackle he was through I think. After re-watching I'm stll not sure how the welsh 13 made that without some sort of go-go-gadgit arms thing going on.

Overall I'm not all doom and gloom after having another watch. There were a few things that went Wales' way and a few things that went against us, if any of these things didn't happen I reckon we win.

I am still frustrated though. If we beat Ireland it might just show that mentally we've turned a corner bouncing back from this, but if not it is a worry.

Hogg was clearly impeded during the final play. Penalty, full time, game Scotland. In another universe.

[KingBlairhorn]

I've done myself the disservice of re-watching the Wales game.

There are a few things we really need to work on, well two cruical ones came to my mind:

Maul defence: They just splintered us almost at will it seemed, our only answers appeared to be to give away loads of meters of infringe.
Making more of chances: I've just seen the stat that we beat 27 defenders vs their 6, yet they scored 4 tries vs our 3.

I didn't realise until re-watching that InrDru's break at the end, Rees-Zammit slipped so if it wasn't for that amazing tap tackle he was through I think. After re-watching I'm stll not sure how the welsh 13 made that without some sort of go-go-gadgit arms thing going on.

Overall I'm not all doom and gloom after having another watch. There were a few things that went Wales' way and a few things that went against us, if any of these things didn't happen I reckon we win.

I am still frustrated though. If we beat Ireland it might just show that mentally we've turned a corner bouncing back from this, but if not it is a worry.

Apropos of nothing, I think WR really need to look at the maul, particularly around lineout drives as it feels very unbalanced at present. It seems the team in control of the maul are able to force penalties on a huge number of actions whilst having a much lower chance of conceding a penalty themselves. It feels unbalanced to me regardless of whether my team happens to be exploiting that unbalance or are being dominated because of it.

I don't have any smart ideas or answers but I just don't like the current balance that encourages cynical play to milk penalties through the maul.

[Tichtheid]

I feel that the laws around the maul are mostly fine, but as per, they are enforced inconsistently and decisions often seem to favour a particular team or teams...usually the ones playing Edinburgh, Glasgow or Scotland.

That was a joke, for the avoidance of doubt, but I do think that you can go to almost every lineout and spot squint throws, players getting in front of the jumper to prevent the sack, the opposition swimming up the side, the maul being collapsed or tackled or players joining the maul in front of the ball carrier, then players "staying in their original positions, not changing binds" is joke, they are offside.

That is just one set piece, the game is really difficult to referee and decisions do seem arbitrary, most of the time it's pick/ignore ten offences and see what you choose to see.

[KingBlairhorn]

I feel that the laws around the maul are mostly fine, but as per, they are enforced inconsistently and decisions often seem to favour a particular team or teams...usually the ones playing Edinburgh, Glasgow or Scotland.

That was a joke, for the avoidance of doubt, but I do think that you can go to almost every lineout and spot squint throws, players getting in front of the jumper to prevent the sack, the opposition swimming up the side, the maul being collapsed or tackled or players joining the maul in front of the ball carrier, then players "staying in their original positions, not changing binds" is joke, they are offside.

That is just one set piece, the game is really difficult to referee and decisions do seem arbitrary, most of the time it's pick/ignore ten offences and see what you choose to see.

Well, sure, that is definitely the age old problem with rugby. The laws are fine, they just aren't enforced! I think one reason for that is often complexity with, for instance, the same action potentially penalising in both directions. It is literally impossible for the referee and other officials to watch in the region of 16 players all doing different things simultaneously. It just cannot be done. The act of forming a lineout maul, for instance: you see early engagement penalised a huge amount, but rarely see the attacking team penalised for keeping the jumper in the air. Both are penalties and it really is a split second judgement call as to who to penalise. Whilst making that decision there are generally up to 10 other players doing 'things' around the point of the maul that may or may not be legal. I don't envy the refs at all.

It's for those kind of situations that a total rethink is needed in my opinion. It might change the way the maul functions but for me that wouldn't be a bad thing as, like I say, the balance currently feels wrong.

[clydecloggie]

I feel that the laws around the maul are mostly fine, but as per, they are enforced inconsistently and decisions often seem to favour a particular team or teams...usually the ones playing Edinburgh, Glasgow or Scotland.

That was a joke, for the avoidance of doubt, but I do think that you can go to almost every lineout and spot squint throws, players getting in front of the jumper to prevent the sack, the opposition swimming up the side, the maul being collapsed or tackled or players joining the maul in front of the ball carrier, then players "staying in their original positions, not changing binds" is joke, they are offside.

That is just one set piece, the game is really difficult to referee and decisions do seem arbitrary, most of the time it's pick/ignore ten offences and see what you choose to see.

Well, sure, that is definitely the age old problem with rugby. The laws are fine, they just aren't enforced! I think one reason for that is often complexity with, for instance, the same action potentially penalising in both directions. It is literally impossible for the referee and other officials to watch in the region of 16 players all doing different things simultaneously. It just cannot be done. The act of forming a lineout maul, for instance: you see early engagement penalised a huge amount, but rarely see the attacking team penalised for keeping the jumper in the air. Both are penalties and it really is a split second judgement call as to who to penalise. Whilst making that decision there are generally up to 10 other players doing 'things' around the point of the maul that may or may not be legal. I don't envy the refs at all.

It's for those kind of situations that a total rethink is needed in my opinion. It might change the way the maul functions but for me that wouldn't be a bad thing as, like I say, the balance currently feels wrong.

I agree. Very few mauls look 'clean' these days. They're mess and 9 times out of 10 the attacking side get the decision, by what looks to be no other reason than that they are the attacking side.

[robmatic]

Ally Miller and Darge get shifted across to Glasgow.

Makes sense as Glasgow need the bodies and Edinburgh have been surprisingly successful at hanging onto their high profile backrows. Darge obviously hasn't had much senior rugby but Miller has proven himself to be a useful squad option.

[I like neeps]

Ally Miller and Darge get shifted across to Glasgow.

Makes sense as Glasgow need the bodies and Edinburgh have been surprisingly successful at hanging onto their high profile backrows. Darge obviously hasn't had much senior rugby but Miller has proven himself to be a useful squad option.

Indeed looking at the depth charts the disparity in backrows was quite frankly ridiculous.

Darge is a real prospect with three good years in the under20s. Both he and Gordon are very young so will be great to see who and Boyle at Edinburgh arise as heir to Watson.

Miller gets a shot at pro rugby, good on him.

[KingBlairhorn]

Ally Miller and Darge get shifted across to Glasgow.

Makes sense as Glasgow need the bodies and Edinburgh have been surprisingly successful at hanging onto their high profile backrows. Darge obviously hasn't had much senior rugby but Miller has proven himself to be a useful squad option.

Indeed looking at the depth charts the disparity in backrows was quite frankly ridiculous.

Darge is a real prospect with three good years in the under20s. Both he and Gordon are very young so will be great to see who and Boyle at Edinburgh arise as heir to Watson.

Miller gets a shot at pro rugby, good on him.

Sensible moves. From an Edinburgh POV, the two they have lost are probably the weakest of the current SQ players in their categories (emerging pro and youth prospect). That's not to be disparaging, both are top prospects and Miller has had a great breakout season, however those two are probably the nearest the beginning of their respective journeys.

Edinburgh have held on to Bradbury and Crosbie, both of whom are more established than Miller plus Boyle who seems to be slightly further along in his development than Darge. They have also held on to Muncaster who is probably the top number 8 prospect in Scotland right now.

[westport]

3 games for young Hastings for his red