Would you rather survive 1 x blood clot from a vaccine that has little lasting effect like a stroke
What it comes down to from an EU position is; that the UK is now vaccinating, ostensibly health, low risk citizens, with vaccines that have been exported from the EU; while the EU states haven't been able to vaccinate all it's high-risk groups.Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:57 pm
This, allied to this morning's statement from EU officials that their argument is with AZ and not the UK “The UK is not to blame. The EU is not to blame,” said an EU official. “It’s about everyone finding agreement with a company that has been over-selling its production capacity.” suggests that the Eu may be rowing back on its threats to block vaccine exports to the UK.
How long passed before they approved the vaccines after the UK had? How many doses of AZ do they have sat in fridges because people have refused to accept it?fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:45 pmWhat it comes down to from an EU position is; that the UK is now vaccinating, ostensibly health, low risk citizens, with vaccines that have been exported from the EU; while the EU states haven't been able to vaccinate all it's high-risk groups.Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:57 pm
This, allied to this morning's statement from EU officials that their argument is with AZ and not the UK “The UK is not to blame. The EU is not to blame,” said an EU official. “It’s about everyone finding agreement with a company that has been over-selling its production capacity.” suggests that the Eu may be rowing back on its threats to block vaccine exports to the UK.
That's isn't right.
The EU's vaccine procurement programme dithered and delayed because it prioritised price over speed, and tried to balance out orders between German and French suppliers. Even though the AZ vaccine is delivered at cost, it failed to sign contracts until 3 months after the UK, and also failed to agree as strict contract conditions with AZ as the UK. The UK has also had significant shortfalls in vaccine delivery; we just happen to be way ahead of the EU because purchasing, manufacture and approval happened earlier, and so we have already dealt with the problems the EU is now experiencing.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:45 pmWhat it comes down to from an EU position is; that the UK is now vaccinating, ostensibly health, low risk citizens, with vaccines that have been exported from the EU; while the EU states haven't been able to vaccinate all it's high-risk groups.Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:57 pm
This, allied to this morning's statement from EU officials that their argument is with AZ and not the UK “The UK is not to blame. The EU is not to blame,” said an EU official. “It’s about everyone finding agreement with a company that has been over-selling its production capacity.” suggests that the Eu may be rowing back on its threats to block vaccine exports to the UK.
That's isn't right.
Yeah. This argument doesn't really make any sense as it basically means everyone needs to go at the pace of the slowest vaccinating country.Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:50 pmHow long passed before they approved the vaccines after the UK had? How many doses of AZ do they have sat in fridges because people have refused to accept it?fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:45 pmWhat it comes down to from an EU position is; that the UK is now vaccinating, ostensibly health, low risk citizens, with vaccines that have been exported from the EU; while the EU states haven't been able to vaccinate all it's high-risk groups.Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:57 pm
This, allied to this morning's statement from EU officials that their argument is with AZ and not the UK “The UK is not to blame. The EU is not to blame,” said an EU official. “It’s about everyone finding agreement with a company that has been over-selling its production capacity.” suggests that the Eu may be rowing back on its threats to block vaccine exports to the UK.
That's isn't right.
The UK is vaccinating as fast as it receives doses, the evidence suggests the EU is not managing the same.
Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:10 pmThe EU's vaccine procurement programme dithered and delayed because it prioritised price over speed, and tried to balance out orders between German and French suppliers. Even though the AZ vaccine is delivered at cost, it failed to sign contracts until 3 months after the UK, and also failed to agree as strict contract conditions with AZ as the UK. The UK has also had significant shortfalls in vaccine delivery; we just happen to be way ahead of the EU because purchasing, manufacture and approval happened earlier, and so we have already dealt with the problems the EU is now experiencing.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:45 pmWhat it comes down to from an EU position is; that the UK is now vaccinating, ostensibly health, low risk citizens, with vaccines that have been exported from the EU; while the EU states haven't been able to vaccinate all it's high-risk groups.Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:57 pm
This, allied to this morning's statement from EU officials that their argument is with AZ and not the UK “The UK is not to blame. The EU is not to blame,” said an EU official. “It’s about everyone finding agreement with a company that has been over-selling its production capacity.” suggests that the Eu may be rowing back on its threats to block vaccine exports to the UK.
That's isn't right.
If the EU had a solid legal case that AZ wasn't meeting its contractual obligations, it would take AZ to court, rather than spread disinformation about the vaccine and threaten to seize vaccine shipments.
That really is interesting.
There is also no contractual basis for the EU's claims about 'reciprocity'; it is an emotional argument being used by the EU because there is no legal basis for them to demand either that AZ supplies it with vaccines manufactured in the UK, or that AZ stop fulfilling its contracts with the UK with vaccines manufactured in the EU. It sounds good, and has been seized upon by the FBPE crowd, but it is meaningless in commercial terms.Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Let's get something straight. The eu isn't exporting any vaccine. Neither is the uk. Private companies are exporting vaccine as agreed in contracts. They'd have no reason to prioritise the uk on a "feels" basis, in fact quite the opposite, so therefore it must be contractual.
The UK is thinking this over and making significant investments to change things for the future. There's a huge amount of direct government money going into building out infrastructure right now so that as a country we simply won't be anywhere near as dependent on third countries for vaccine supplies, from the VMIC in Harwell to the Cell and Gene Therapy Catapult Manufacturing Centre in Braintree, through to direct investments in manufacturing facilities for Novavax and Valneva. Even with all of that though, their simply will never be real capacity in the UK to provide any sort of bulk export capability for the rest of the world - the scale being built in the UK will be to provide for the UK and hopefully provide some marginal assistance to a global effort.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:55 pmLobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:10 pmThe EU's vaccine procurement programme dithered and delayed because it prioritised price over speed, and tried to balance out orders between German and French suppliers. Even though the AZ vaccine is delivered at cost, it failed to sign contracts until 3 months after the UK, and also failed to agree as strict contract conditions with AZ as the UK. The UK has also had significant shortfalls in vaccine delivery; we just happen to be way ahead of the EU because purchasing, manufacture and approval happened earlier, and so we have already dealt with the problems the EU is now experiencing.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:45 pm
What it comes down to from an EU position is; that the UK is now vaccinating, ostensibly health, low risk citizens, with vaccines that have been exported from the EU; while the EU states haven't been able to vaccinate all it's high-risk groups.
That's isn't right.
If the EU had a solid legal case that AZ wasn't meeting its contractual obligations, it would take AZ to court, rather than spread disinformation about the vaccine and threaten to seize vaccine shipments.
The EU is exporting vaccines to the UK; while EU, high-risk citizens haven't been vaccinated !
How many vaccines has the UK exported to the EU ?
I don't like the fact that vaccines have become a Political issue; but that's where we are; & there are a few hundred cunts in Westminster who are doing their best to make a bad situation worse.
What they & the UK should be thinking over; is not the next 5 months; but the next 5-10 years.
What happens if Covid-27 rolls around, & the only efficient vaccine is being manufactured in say, Romania. How will the UK react to French Politicians spouting on about how if the UK stayed in the EU; their economy would be open sooner, & their citizens wouldn't be dying ?
Price.Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Let's get something straight. The eu isn't exporting any vaccine. Neither is the uk. Private companies are exporting vaccine as agreed in contracts. They'd have no reason to prioritise the uk on a "feels" basis, in fact quite the opposite, so therefore it must be contractual.
Where's that from? I've seen the leaks on what the eu has paid but not what the uk paid.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:49 amPrice.Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Let's get something straight. The eu isn't exporting any vaccine. Neither is the uk. Private companies are exporting vaccine as agreed in contracts. They'd have no reason to prioritise the uk on a "feels" basis, in fact quite the opposite, so therefore it must be contractual.
UK pays £3 per AZ jab
EU pays £1.59
Money talks
I was under the impression that at least part of the reason why the UK cost is higher per dose is that the facilities producing in the UK are smaller, so economies of scale aren't coming into playSandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:49 amPrice.Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Let's get something straight. The eu isn't exporting any vaccine. Neither is the uk. Private companies are exporting vaccine as agreed in contracts. They'd have no reason to prioritise the uk on a "feels" basis, in fact quite the opposite, so therefore it must be contractual.
UK pays £3 per AZ jab
EU pays £1.59
Money talks
Covid travel rules will include 'Stanley Johnson loophole' for second homes
Updated regulations will allow people to leave UK to prepare second homes for sale or rent
Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:52 amWhere's that from? I've seen the leaks on what the eu has paid but not what the uk paid.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:49 amPrice.Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Let's get something straight. The eu isn't exporting any vaccine. Neither is the uk. Private companies are exporting vaccine as agreed in contracts. They'd have no reason to prioritise the uk on a "feels" basis, in fact quite the opposite, so therefore it must be contractual.
UK pays £3 per AZ jab
EU pays £1.59
Money talks
But yes, buying in greater bulk helps. I reckon 50% vaccinated already will pay off that difference soon enough though.
The UK is believed to have spent between £24 and £28 per dose on the Moderna jab, the Daily Mail reports. The domestically produced Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine cost the government around £3 per jab, according to the BBC, while the Pfizer/BioNTech jab has a price tag of around £15.
Meanwhile, Belgium’s Budget State Secretary Eva De Bleeker gave an insight into what the EU is paying when she accidentally tweeted a table last month that showed the price of each jab. The now-deleted tweet revealed that the EU is handing over €1.78 (£1.59) for each dose of the Oxford vaccine and €12 (£10.60) for the Pfizer version.
"The exemption allows people to travel abroad “in connection with the purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property”. Those activities include visiting an estate agent, developer sales office or show home, viewing residential properties to rent or buy, and preparing a property for moving in."Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:13 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um=twitterCovid travel rules will include 'Stanley Johnson loophole' for second homes
Updated regulations will allow people to leave UK to prepare second homes for sale or rent
Georgia flipped blue for the senate seat, and given the ridiculous gerrymandering, the national election results there were v close. Calling it Trump Heartland is probably some way off the mark. The Trump heartlands are the rust belt plus Florida and a few other places.
I'm not sure 'useless' is the correct term. They are hugely efficient, but only in very venal and specific ways.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:08 am"The exemption allows people to travel abroad “in connection with the purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property”. Those activities include visiting an estate agent, developer sales office or show home, viewing residential properties to rent or buy, and preparing a property for moving in."Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:13 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um=twitterCovid travel rules will include 'Stanley Johnson loophole' for second homes
Updated regulations will allow people to leave UK to prepare second homes for sale or rent
FFS, this Govt is actually a bunch of useless cunts
Jeez that's a wanky loophole. Still, the Sunday Times mentioned they're selling properties in Sicily for 1 Euro...Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:08 am"The exemption allows people to travel abroad “in connection with the purchase, sale, letting or rental of a residential property”. Those activities include visiting an estate agent, developer sales office or show home, viewing residential properties to rent or buy, and preparing a property for moving in."Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:13 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... um=twitterCovid travel rules will include 'Stanley Johnson loophole' for second homes
Updated regulations will allow people to leave UK to prepare second homes for sale or rent
FFS, this Govt is actually a bunch of useless cunts
When I chased this down the rabbit hole the first time, the only figure that people seemed to be quoting was the initial pricing put out by AZ, that it would be about £3 a dose. But not specific details to how much a country actually paid for it, and people were putting 2 and 2 together. Especially when the actual price for the EU came out, and people wanted to put the boot in.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:05 amThe UK is believed to have spent between £24 and £28 per dose on the Moderna jab, the Daily Mail reports. The domestically produced Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine cost the government around £3 per jab, according to the BBC, while the Pfizer/BioNTech jab has a price tag of around £15.Meanwhile, Belgium’s Budget State Secretary Eva De Bleeker gave an insight into what the EU is paying when she accidentally tweeted a table last month that showed the price of each jab. The now-deleted tweet revealed that the EU is handing over €1.78 (£1.59) for each dose of the Oxford vaccine and €12 (£10.60) for the Pfizer version.
https://www.theweek.co.uk/951750/what-d ... -pays-what
Completely retarded, considering lockdowns cost the EU economies billions and billions of Euros (I'd guess over 20 billion per week) to save a couple of hundred millions pounds.Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:49 amPrice.Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:23 am Let's get something straight. The eu isn't exporting any vaccine. Neither is the uk. Private companies are exporting vaccine as agreed in contracts. They'd have no reason to prioritise the uk on a "feels" basis, in fact quite the opposite, so therefore it must be contractual.
UK pays £3 per AZ jab
EU pays £1.59
Money talks
The independent board that reviews data from multiple Covid-19 vaccine candidates has expressed concern over AstraZeneca's announcements on its latest findings, according to a statement posted early Tuesday by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
"Late Monday, the Data and Safety Monitoring Board (DSMB) notified NIAID, BARDA, and AstraZeneca that it was concerned by information released by AstraZeneca on initial data from its COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial," the statement says. "The DSMB expressed concern that AstraZeneca may have included outdated information from that trial, which may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data.
"We urge the company to work with the DSMB to review the efficacy data and ensure the most accurate, up-to-date efficacy data be made public as quickly as possible."
AstraZeneca has not responded to CNN's request for comment.
Early Monday, AstraZeneca issued a press release saying its Covid-19 vaccine showed 79% efficacy against symptomatic disease and 100% efficacy against severe disease and hospitalization, citing long-awaited US trial data. The latter figure was based on five events in the placebo arm, NIAID Director Dr. Anthony Fauci said during a coronavirus briefing Monday.
The DSMB is an independent expert group that sees trial data before the pharmaceutical companies, the doctors running the trials, or even the US Food and Drug Administration. It has the power advise a company of positive interim findings, or to halt a trial over safety concerns. That's what happened to the AstraZeneca trial in September after a study participant developed neurological symptoms, for example.
Last year, the National Institutes of Health appointed a common DSMB to monitor Covid-19 vaccine clinical trials that were being funded by the federal government — including AstraZeneca, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson. This DSMB has 10 to 15 members with specialties including vaccine development, statistics and ethics.
DSMBs sometimes disagree with investigators over the interpretation of trial results, Stephen Evans, a professor of pharmacoepidemiology at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, said in a statement to the Science Media Centre in the UK. But that's usually done in private, he said, "so this is unprecedented in my opinion."
However, he noted, he isn't concerned unless there's a safety issue, "which does not appear to be the case."
