Private equity funders in bidding war for Super TT Rugby 2022

[Ellafan]

As it seems extremely unlikely that there will be any involvement in the NZRU's new domestic competition, a new era requires a discussion in anew place about what sort of new comp Australia should have.

Discuss.

[Ellafan]

Rod Kafer actually posted this on Wednesday, but the NZRU manifesto issued to day was as per the leaked stuff anyway. Take it away Rod:

It’s time for Australian rugby to go it alone.

Aside from probably the first four years of the tournament, Super Rugby by any metric is not a model that has worked well for Australian rugby.

The aim of Super Rugby was to lay the foundations for a successful Wallabies outfit.

In 20 years, Australia has slipped to seventh in the world, lost 17 consecutive Bledisloe series and only won the Tri-Nations or Rugby Championship titles in World Cup years where the tournament is shortened.

As we look towards 2021 and beyond, with the backdrop of the coronavirus pandemic, the chance for change is here.

So many competition models have been thrown up by many influential figures in recent months and a trans-Tasman option seems to be the one that continues to come up.

Despite everything we’ve seen over the last two decades, we’re still contemplating an Australia-New Zealand competition.

That is a fundamentally flawed concept.

Rugby AU chairman Hamish McLennan recently described Australia’s relationship to New Zealand Rugby as a “master-servant” dynamic.

At the moment, people like former All Blacks coach Steve Hansen, who after calling Michael Cheika a clown during his tenure is proving to be a pot calling a kettle black, saying Australians aren’t worthy of a trans-Tasman competition.

Maybe it’s time for Australia to say, ‘Go ahead without us, we’ll see you at Bledisloe time’.

If I look at the personalities and the people I played rugby with during my career, to think that we’re coming out of that as the servant in this upstairs-downstairs relationship with New Zealand is so frustrating.

It’s time to take a risk and not be crippled by the fear of getting it wrong because things have not been trending in the right direction.

We’ve clearly been getting it somewhat wrong throughout Super Rugby, or the Wallabies would not be sitting seventh in the world and at the risk of dropping below countries like Japan in the rankings.

There is not a single measure by which you could say that Super Rugby has been good for Australian rugby and in recent years, especially, we’ve created players who are mentally scarred by consistent losses to Kiwi teams.

Super Rugby’s major Australian competitors in the NRL, AFL and even the A-League have a positive Australian narrative out of each weekend they play.

Australia’s biggest rugby stars spend more time playing overseas than they do in Australia, when you factor in internationals and Super Rugby tours.

Meanwhile, aspiring rugby players and fans of the game are swamped with stars of all the other major codes.

There is that school of thought that Australian players need to be able to test themselves against New Zealand but let’s just do that when the Wallabies face New Zealand.

That model has worked for us before and it can work for us again.

In the meantime, let Australian rugby have a positive narrative every Sunday morning.

Another question that is constantly brought up in this discussion is whether broadcasters would pay for and whether people would actually watch an Australian-only comp.

Looking at the first weeks of Super Rugby AU, people are watching and watching in similar numbers to previous years.

As for broadcasters, they’re already reluctant to pay a premium rate for the existing Super Rugby competition, why is it held up as the benchmark?

We know that broadcasters have paid big dollars for deals with the NRL and AFL, both of which are domestic-focused competitions.

Why not create our own competition, invest in ourselves and then be able to reinvest in the Australian rugby community?

Yes, AFL and NRL have more teams and more premiership games but if you look holistically, there is a lot that rugby can bring to the table.

Whether that’s creating a product with pathway options from schools all the way to Wallabies, maybe adding in a national club competition or looking at international province playoffs for the winners of Australia, New Zealand and South African competitions.

The only way to get out of the current rut Australian rugby is in is to change the model.

We don’t want to be the Kodak of world rugby, we don’t want to be a formerly great nation that let the world change without it.

Australian rugby has the perfect opportunity to carve out its own path now and we absolutely should.

[Caley_Red]

Other than the Super teams plus the return of the Force, who else would be in it?

[Ellafan]

Other than the Super teams plus the return of the Force, who else would be in it?

The 5 teams cover the five main areas; Adelaide is missing but would be a later expansion target.

I would add another team each in NSW and Qld (query west Sydney and north Qld) , but do not suggest they take up previous NRC entities.

What we need is teams that attract a bit of tribal loyalty, or at least some geographic feeling. There are plenty of Grevious types down Parramatta Road who would love to have a west Sydney team to stick it to the toffee nosed bastards supporting the 'tahs.

[towny]

I don’t think there can be another team in Qld, if the Reds remain. Same with NSW.

If we take the jump, and I’m increasingly keen, we need to get bold, which means withdraw the Tahs and Reds to their former incarnations as rep teams. They would be replaced with perhaps Brisbane (I’d call them ‘Ballymore’) and another Qld entity - unfortunately there are no facilities on the south side of Brisbane for 1m people, which means looking regional (Gold Coast,?)

Sydney and Western Sydney.

So that makes 7 Oz teams and I think we’d need another one minimum.

[Ellafan]

I don’t think there can be another team in Qld, if the Reds remain. Same with NSW.

If we take the jump, and I’m increasingly keen, we need to get bold, which means withdraw the Tahs and Reds to their former incarnations as rep teams. They would be replaced with perhaps Brisbane (I’d call them ‘Ballymore’) and another Qld entity - unfortunately there are no facilities on the south side of Brisbane for 1m people, which means looking regional (Gold Coast,?)

Sydney and Western Sydney.

So that makes 7 Oz teams and I think we’d need another one minimum.

Good idea , and bring back the two games per state of the Union clash, and make it an origin game.

[Guy Smiley]

Rod Kafer actually posted this on Wednesday, but the NZRU manifesto issued to day was as per the leaked stuff anyway. Take it away Rod:

It’s time for Australian rugby to go it alone.

Aside from probably the first four years of the tournament, Super Rugby by any metric is not a model that has worked well for Australian rugby.

The aim of Super Rugby was to lay the foundations for a successful Wallabies outfit.

In 20 years, Australia has slipped to seventh in the world, lost 17 consecutive Bledisloe series and only won the Tri-Nations or Rugby Championship titles in World Cup years where the tournament is shortened.

As we look towards 2021 and beyond, with the backdrop of the coronavirus pandemic, the chance for change is here.

So many competition models have been thrown up by many influential figures in recent months and a trans-Tasman option seems to be the one that continues to come up.

Despite everything we’ve seen over the last two decades, we’re still contemplating an Australia-New Zealand competition.

That is a fundamentally flawed concept.

Rugby AU chairman Hamish McLennan recently described Australia’s relationship to New Zealand Rugby as a “master-servant” dynamic.

At the moment, people like former All Blacks coach Steve Hansen, who after calling Michael Cheika a clown during his tenure is proving to be a pot calling a kettle black, saying Australians aren’t worthy of a trans-Tasman competition.

Maybe it’s time for Australia to say, ‘Go ahead without us, we’ll see you at Bledisloe time’.

If I look at the personalities and the people I played rugby with during my career, to think that we’re coming out of that as the servant in this upstairs-downstairs relationship with New Zealand is so frustrating.

It’s time to take a risk and not be crippled by the fear of getting it wrong because things have not been trending in the right direction.

We’ve clearly been getting it somewhat wrong throughout Super Rugby, or the Wallabies would not be sitting seventh in the world and at the risk of dropping below countries like Japan in the rankings.

There is not a single measure by which you could say that Super Rugby has been good for Australian rugby and in recent years, especially, we’ve created players who are mentally scarred by consistent losses to Kiwi teams.

Super Rugby’s major Australian competitors in the NRL, AFL and even the A-League have a positive Australian narrative out of each weekend they play.

Australia’s biggest rugby stars spend more time playing overseas than they do in Australia, when you factor in internationals and Super Rugby tours.

Meanwhile, aspiring rugby players and fans of the game are swamped with stars of all the other major codes.

There is that school of thought that Australian players need to be able to test themselves against New Zealand but let’s just do that when the Wallabies face New Zealand.

That model has worked for us before and it can work for us again.

In the meantime, let Australian rugby have a positive narrative every Sunday morning.

Another question that is constantly brought up in this discussion is whether broadcasters would pay for and whether people would actually watch an Australian-only comp.

Looking at the first weeks of Super Rugby AU, people are watching and watching in similar numbers to previous years.

As for broadcasters, they’re already reluctant to pay a premium rate for the existing Super Rugby competition, why is it held up as the benchmark?

We know that broadcasters have paid big dollars for deals with the NRL and AFL, both of which are domestic-focused competitions.

Why not create our own competition, invest in ourselves and then be able to reinvest in the Australian rugby community?

Yes, AFL and NRL have more teams and more premiership games but if you look holistically, there is a lot that rugby can bring to the table.

Whether that’s creating a product with pathway options from schools all the way to Wallabies, maybe adding in a national club competition or looking at international province playoffs for the winners of Australia, New Zealand and South African competitions.

The only way to get out of the current rut Australian rugby is in is to change the model.

We don’t want to be the Kodak of world rugby, we don’t want to be a formerly great nation that let the world change without it.

Australian rugby has the perfect opportunity to carve out its own path now and we absolutely should.

Quite a chippy little effort

I think the NZRU ceased to exist slightly earlier than the ARU did... might not come across as quite so chippy if the correct name was used?

Anyway... good luck and all that.

[Ellafan]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that the thread has been kiwied already. You'd think they had enough to talk about with their you-beaut 6 team comp.

[Ellafan]

Viewing figures from last night

- SRAu got 47,000 viewers.

- A league got 12,000. - first game back.

[CrazyIslander]

Need just one more team. Western Sydney perhaps based in Parramatta stadium.
3 games a week. Home and away matches thdn finals. Then NRC. Or champions cup vs NZ.

[Ellafan]

We're looking at two plans, one with the Kiwis and one without. The call as I understand it, between [NZR boss] Mark Robinson and Rob [Clarke] was quite perfunctory," McLennan said.

"It's pretty obvious to me that we have the chance to build the best professional competition in the world together, with a bit of a twist, so I hope they can seize the opportunity.

I can't read the the article behind the SMH paywall - were any details of the no-kiwi plan given?

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 55dex.html

[Kiap]

I can't read the the article behind the SMH paywall

Go to your (Chrome/Firefox, etc) browser settings and clear SMH cookies (via "privacy" menu or somesuch, and search cookies on smh).

This will rest your free article quota.

Using a "Private window" when opening SMH pages might also help.

- were any details of the no-kiwi plan given?

I've snipped most of the tidbits here:

• ... An RA board meeting will on Monday discuss New Zealand Rugby's Aratipu review, which was released on Friday with a pitch for an eight- or 10-team competition, including its own five sides and a Pasifika team.
  
  ... But RA chairman Hamish McLennan said Australia was firm on defending its five-team footprint - the Waratahs, Reds, Rebels, Brumbies and Force - and would continue to explore striking out on its own with an Argentinian, Japanese and South African flavour.
  
  "We're looking at two plans, one with the Kiwis and one without. The call as I understand it, between [NZR boss] Mark Robinson and Rob [Clarke] was quite perfunctory," McLennan said.
  
  "It's pretty obvious to me that we have the chance to build the best professional competition in the world together, with a bit of a twist, so I hope they can seize the opportunity. As countries we are best alone, better together."
  
  New Zealand's opening gambit was the talk of rugby circles over the weekend, with reactions varying from wry amusement to the verbal equivalent of the raised middle finger.
  
  NZR's delivery was the main issue. After weeks of little communication between the unions, Robinson's "invitation" to Australia to submit "expressions of interest" to join what was framed as New Zealand's competition, was noted.
  
  ... On the financial side of things, RA feels strengthened by genuine interest from a handful of major private-equity players, from Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest's "long-term, patient" Tattarang model to shorter-term conventional involvements being pursued by Silverlake, CVC, Providence and KKR.
  
  Long gone are the days of relying on a broadcast partner to fund the majority of your business. RA will take the new competition to market and could be described in real-estate parlance as a motivated - if still cautious - seller.
  
  ...There is a growing belief here that the spectre of COVID-19 will hamper everyone's plans well into next year, leaving 2022 as the year for fully developed visions and next year as a bridging solution.
  
  One of the first victims might be the Pasifika team NZR wants included in the new competition, although McLennan believes problems within New Zealand could put paid to that first.
  
  "If they're seriously considering putting a Pasifika team into Auckland that will weaken the Blues," he said.
  
  RA wants a trans Tasman future but not the one the Kiwis pitched last week. It believes Australia has the time zone and commercial potential to make it a valuable partner at the negotiating table, not a beggar searching for scraps.
  
  McLennan believes broadcasters will prefer a 10- or 12-team competition over an eight-team model or another year of Super Rugby Aotearoa.

[Ellafan]

TY.

... But RA chairman Hamish McLennan said Australia was firm on defending its five-team footprint - the Waratahs, Reds, Rebels, Brumbies and Force - and would continue to explore striking out on its own with an Argentinian, Japanese and South African flavour.

So, as it stands, RA will be moving forward with its own competition.

Towny said somewhere that it might be an idea to take NSW & Qld and 'reserve' them for an origin type series each year, and tour games. This is worth considering, I think. It takes away a roadblock in the path of a 10 team comp, in the sense that fans in those states may not warm to a second team competing with the traditional one.

For example, in NSW, you could draw some dividing lines from the middle of the coat hangar, that extend all the way out into the country areas, and have a north south and west teams. Not only are there multiple stadia that are suitable in Sydney (starting with North Sydney/Brookvale, SCG/SFS eventually, and Parramatta) but those teams would engage the country areas in their footprint as well (and take a game or 2 or 3 there each season).

Another way to look at it would be to divide NSW into two, not three, because the Brumbies have already had the southern part of NSW re-assigned to them as a wider geographic area.

Not sure how that sort of divide works in Qld, but it would be possible to get up to 8 teams while also avoiding the NRC problem - the linkage to city clubs was not widely liked and there was no tribal geography.

[Ellafan]

And emerging from NZR's failed attempt to browbeat RA this Monday evening, we can now confirm, RA will be moving forward without participating in the NZ comp.

The Australian Super Rugby proposal would include the existing five teams, plus the Sunwolves, Fijian Drua, and an Argentinian team — all based in Australia due to anticipated ongoing COVID restrictions.

[Ellafan]

‘Expressions of insolence’ from NZ as rugby talks go off the rails
Any sense of optimism ended with Rob Clarke’s meeting with Kiwi rugby officials.


The meeting was supposed to be about Australian “expressions of interest” in the Kiwis’ planned trans-Tasman competition, but as Rugby Australia CEO Rob Clarke listened to his New Zealand Rugby counterpart Mark Robinson on Monday, all he heard were “expressions of insolence”.

Granted, that remarkable opinion only comes second-hand, from the chairman of Rugby Australia Hamish McLennan. “Clarkie said it was more ‘expressions of insolence’,” McLennan told The Australian when questioned on the outcome of the video hook-up.

All things considered, then, not one of the more enlightened days in the history of the two countries that have played each other more often in rugby Tests than any two nations on the planet.


There had been some hope, following the release on Friday of the NZR communique, that the Kiwis might have moderated their customary “master-servant” mode of dealing with Australia. That, at least, was how McLennan optimistically interpreted the fact that Kiwis had dropped their “take it or leave it” eight-team competition — in which there was only room for two Australian teams — and substituted an “eight to 10-team” competition.

But the optimism lasted only until Clarke’s Zoom meeting with Robinson and the NZR’s chief rugby officer Nigel Cass, where the New Zealanders are understood to have reverted to type, utterly rejecting Australia’s proposal of a 10-team competition – with five teams from NZ, five from Australia.

Both nations, incidentally, are supportive of a Pasifika side also competing, but Australia believes it will take at least 12 months to set up the team and has recommended pushing their entry out to 2022 and expanding the contest to 11 franchises. It will probably take Australia and NZ that long to agree on whether to base them in Auckland or western Sydney.

Where this “insolence” leaves negotiations no one is quite sure. A Kiwi request to send over the contract documents for Australia to peruse was rejected by Clarke, who flatly insisted they would not wash. What was most remarkable about that rejection was that he made that ruling before going into a RA board meeting, which suggests all directors fully support Australia standing up for itself.

Australia did not need to be reminded yesterday by NZR’s unofficial media arm, the New Zealand Herald, that Australian teams are “embarrassingly out of their depth against Kiwi teams right now”. This particularly holds true for the Brumbies, who beat the Chiefs 26-14 in Hamilton on February 22, and the Rebels, who beat the Highlanders 28-22 in Dunedin one week later, and the Reds, who outscored the Crusaders four tries to three but lost 24-20 in Christchurch a further week later when they couldn’t land a kick. Oh, and the Brumbies also were terribly out of their depth when thrashed 23-22 by the Highlanders after the bell in Canberra on February 15.

No doubt as the Herald intended to mention, but somehow forgot, these were all results recorded “right now”. Or as “right now” as a global pandemic would permit.

Australia’s preference is to engage in a trans-Tasman competition with New Zealand. Yet all indications are it has no intention of allowing the NZR to determine which Australian teams will be play and which are surplus to Kiwi requirements.

It is unthinkable that, if the situation was reversed, Australia would be advocating the demise of, say, the Chiefs, who now find themselves at the bottom of the Super Rugby Aotearoa table. That is not something good neighbours demand of each other.

One lesson Australia learned from 2017, when it culled the Western Force from Super Rugby at the behest of SANZAAR, was never again to lose control of its autonomy. Besides, it is now building towards a 2027 World Cup and realises that the more professional teams it boasts, the more the commercial value.

If need be, RA will embark on a super-sized version of this year’s Super Rugby AU competition next year. McLennan has indicated he is prepared to welcome foreign players from around the world – three per franchise – along with a possible team from South Africa, which also was on the receiving end of some offhand treatment by NZ last week. Effectively, its presence in Super Rugby was terminated in a NZR press release.

[Ellafan]

There have been back and forth suggestions this evening about the signing/not of Joseph Suaalii.

It sounds like his agent is trying to get the $ number up at the last minute.

On the other hand, if a private equity benefactor has come in with a $3m offer, good.

[Guy Smiley]

I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that the thread has been kiwied already.

I really didn’t need to put any effort in. You’re not talking about anything but New Zealand all on your own.

[Ellafan]

We don't need acidic negative little grubs like you on this thread. Go somewhere else and talk about NZ rugby you tiresome piece of shit.

[Koalabyte]

Anyone seen this Joseph Suaalii (love the name sounds like he has scored a try already, in the vein of GOOOOAAAALL). I would say 3 million over 3 years for a 17 year old is a risk for RA, especially with the state of the finances. Wish him luck, hope he fulfils his potential.

Highlights real in the link below is exciting, but it is schoolboys league. Doesn't mention if he has ever player rugby.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/nrl/rugby ... a1b38b5be9

It was only last month that South Sydney trumpeted the news that the club had agreed to terms on a three-year, $1.7 million deal that could not be registered until Suaalii turns 17 on August 1.

However, in a huge coup for Rugby Australia, it was reported on Tuesday afternoon that Suaalii has instead signed a record $3 million deal with the 15-a-side game.

The Daily Telegraph first reported Suaalii’s deal with Rugby Australia will tie him to Rugby and the Wallabies for at least three years after signing on the dotted line until the end of 2022.

[Ellafan]

Someone, with a connection to South Sydney NRL, paid his school fees at Kings, where he as played 3 years of GPS rugby.

[Casey Ryback]

RA have massive debts, no long term broadcast deal, no decision made on what the Super comp will look like next year, and all they current players have taken a pay cut this season. Seems unlikely they would be splashing around that amount of money at the moment on a 17 year old kid.

[Ellafan]

More news:

Rugby Australia has Plan B if trans-Tasman series falls over

Rugby Australia is ready on Wednesday to sit down with New Zealand Rugby and map out a 2021 trans-Tasman competition but, conversely, it is also moving to create an alternate domestic series in line with hints of interest from broadcasters.

NZR and RA had a cathartic blowout earlier this month, with current and former All Black coaches venting their spleen over spats that went back, in some cases, almost 20 years, while Australia responded with unexpected vigour, effectively telling the Kiwis that if they could not negotiate with them as equals, they would quite happily go it alone.

“That’s happening now, that’s in train now,” said RA interim chief executive Rob Clarke.

“We believe in our market and with the commercial support we have a sustainable domestic competition with the potential to expand in time is a relevant one to pursue.

“That said, we are keen if the New Zealanders are more open-minded to a partnership approach to explore with them what a trans-Tasman competition might look like. And I believe me might be able to resolve some of the concerns they have if we are able to sit around a table and talk it all through.”

Edit - snipped a bit

While Australia is planning for talks with its Anzac partner, preparations are proceeding in parallel for an extension of the Super Rugby AU competition next season.

Fox Sports have released the audience numbers from the third round which showed that a total of 75,000 people watched the Waratahs-Brumbies while another 65,000 tuned in for the Reds-Force. Fox also revealed their streaming numbers, indicating 32,000 viewers overall watching on Foxtel Now, Go or Kayo.

The figures are down five per cent on last year, a relatively modest fall given that the SRAU competition was launched with zero fanfare, reduced live audiences and in the midst of a global pandemic. Certainly it suggests a 2021 domestic competition could have some appeal to broadcasters.

Meanwhile, news that Waratahs captain Rob Simmons is in advanced negotiations with London Irish has prompted RA to press ahead on possible reforms to the Giteau Law. As a 100-cap Test veteran, Simmons is already eligible for selection from abroad.

[Green light echo]

To be frank I hope we piss these bitter, envious Kiwi cunts off. To see the way they treat us when it comes to Rugby is fucking shameful. How many of their sportspeople benefit from Australia accepting their teams into our National competions. How many Kiwis benefit from living in Australia? Is it close to a quarter of their national population? Think about that, close to a quarter of NZ population choose to live in Oz rather then NZ. Yet all we hear is how great NZ is and how shit Oz is.
What a bunch of ungrateful, bitter, plum. They can wank themselves to death in their own comp. We should fuck them off from the Five Eyes Agreement as well. What do they bring?They would have difficulty defending themselves against Jamaica. Apparently they think they are special and don't need us. Well let's see how that goes for them.

[Caley_Red]

What are the proposed Giteau law reforms being touted at the end of that article?

[Ellafan]

To be frank I hope we piss these bitter, envious Kiwi cunts off. To see the way they treat us when it comes to Rugby is fucking shameful. How many of their sportspeople benefit from Australia accepting their teams into our National competions. How many Kiwis benefit from living in Australia? Is it close to a quarter of their national population? Think about that, close to a quarter of NZ population choose to live in Oz rather then NZ. Yet all we hear is how great NZ is and how shit Oz is.
What a bunch of ungrateful, bitter, plum. They can wank themselves to death in their own comp. We should fuck them off from the Five Eyes Agreement as well. What do they bring?They would have difficulty defending themselves against Jamaica. Apparently they think they are special and don't need us. Well let's see how that goes for them.

There is a spite thread about NZR over on the old board - this one is supposed to be a constructive discussion about the best super AU model for next year and going forward.

[Ellafan]

What are the proposed Giteau law reforms being touted at the end of that article?

Some reduction in the qualification criteria, so that Sean McMahon and Samu Kerevi can be selected.

McMahon would be good, but why they want Kerevi back stifling the backline is hard to understand.

[Green light echo]

To be frank I hope we piss these bitter, envious Kiwi cunts off. To see the way they treat us when it comes to Rugby is fucking shameful. How many of their sportspeople benefit from Australia accepting their teams into our National competions. How many Kiwis benefit from living in Australia? Is it close to a quarter of their national population? Think about that, close to a quarter of NZ population choose to live in Oz rather then NZ. Yet all we hear is how great NZ is and how shit Oz is.
What a bunch of ungrateful, bitter, plum. They can wank themselves to death in their own comp. We should fuck them off from the Five Eyes Agreement as well. What do they bring?They would have difficulty defending themselves against Jamaica. Apparently they think they are special and don't need us. Well let's see how that goes for them.

There is a spite thread about NZR over on the old board - this one is supposed to be a constructive discussion about the best super AU model for next year and going forward.

Just calling out the plums lack of gratitude. The hide on these plum would do a rhino proud.

[Green light echo]

Also I'm banned from that other place.

[Ellafan]

Also I'm banned from that other place.

http://notplanetrugby.com/viewtopic.php ... 23d2ec1f4d

Confess and redemption awaits.

[Ellafan]

Double.

[Ymx]

I’d love to see the Aus teams get themselves back in to better health, which ever form that takes.

Miss the early naughties, yet I don’t for the heartbreak of the bledisloes.

All the best. Will watch the thread with hope.

[Enzedder]

To be frank I hope we piss these bitter, envious Kiwi cunts off. To see the way they treat us when it comes to Rugby is fucking shameful. How many of their sportspeople benefit from Australia accepting their teams into our National competions. How many Kiwis benefit from living in Australia? Is it close to a quarter of their national population? Think about that, close to a quarter of NZ population choose to live in Oz rather then NZ. Yet all we hear is how great NZ is and how shit Oz is.
What a bunch of ungrateful, bitter, plum. They can wank themselves to death in their own comp. We should fuck them off from the Five Eyes Agreement as well. What do they bring?They would have difficulty defending themselves against Jamaica. Apparently they think they are special and don't need us. Well let's see how that goes for them.

Holy shit - are you the Camp Commander at one of your concentration camps for our citizens?

I would rather discuss things with you but obviously no chance given your attitude.

Here is an example of the crap in your post

There are 5 million people in NZ and a further million live overseas.

650,000 live in Australia - so the "quarter of their population" has just become an 8th. Keep making shit up though.

Please come back when you want to discuss facts.

[Ymx]

Enz, this is not about NZ hatred. It’s a proactive discussion about how the ARU forge ahead, I will remind you.

[Enzedder]

Enz, this is not about NZ hatred. It’s a proactive discussion about how the ARU forge ahead, I will remind you.

Green Light didn't get the memo

[MungoMan]

Enz, this is not about NZ hatred. It’s a proactive discussion about how the ARU forge ahead, I will remind you.

Green Light didn't get the memo

You may be onto something there

[Ellafan]

Enz, this is not about NZ hatred. It’s a proactive discussion about how the ARU forge ahead, I will remind you.

Green Light didn't get the memo

You may be onto something there

Who is it anyway?

[Green light echo]

Someone who is sick of Kiwi arrogance and entitlement towards Australia. Keep your rugby comp to yourself.You can also take back your Soccer Team that plays in our National comp. As well as the so called New Zealand Warriors who try to play in our NRL. Also take your Netball team back, as well as your bogan V8 drivers. Oh nearly forgot your Team that plays in our National Basketball league, they can piss off too.

And while we are at it New Zealand can fuck off from ANZUS and FIVE EYES too. They are a liability with their joke shop Air Force and Navy.

So if you want too play by yourself and with yourself go right ahead. We dont won't or need you.

As to those NZ citizens you mentioned, they are criminals and deserve to be punted back to where they came from. They are not Australian. They have had the opportunity to become OZ citizens but have chosen not too. Whether that is through entitlement or incompetence is a moot point. They decided not too which means they are not entitled to live here like Australians are. Stop crying and fuck off back to the country you all profess to love so much.

[FujiKiwi]

Good lord.

[Ellafan]

For the love of God.

[terangi48]

Ummmmm.......note to green light echo......while all the teams are Pissing off, do you think it’s possible to give the last man onto the plane, the pavlova recipe back.......thanks......