The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Wylie Coyote]

It's great to see Kinghorn start at ten, this will be a huge test for him.

I hope he gets a chance to play with Shiel's service, otherwise I don't see the point of him standing really flat at ten, watching us box kick our way up the touchline.

Is that the fastest 10-15 Edinburgh has ever played? Admittedly Kinghorn at 10 does skew the average but still.

[Big D]

Had occasion to look at Rees-Zammit’s Wikipedia entry earlier. Interesting to note that like a number of others, he is a product of Hartpury College. Do Wales get the same thing we do, when we get told that a player is a poach because they ‘learned their rugby’ elsewhere? Or is it just us?

Also, when did Wales drop the rule that you had to be playing in Wales to be eligible unless you had 60 caps, or something like that?

They've allowed players under contract to be capped but not sign another "overseas" contract. Francis is heading to Wales next season and LRZ will need to follow after this contract.

[Big D]

Aye, we're supposedly playing an "A" international against England in the USA and, I suppose, a full capped international against Romania in Bucharest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_July ... nion_tests

They should just make the whole thing an A team set of games.

It will be an A team whatever I think. Without a handful of Lions and I can't see them getting the senior senior players such as Nel, Brown, Gray's etc to lace up Vs Romania.

Would be really exciting if we could cap Ashman and Chapman. Two guys going great guns down in England.

I am just wary of throwing caps around really. Ashman is 3rd choice Sale hooker and Turner and Cherry, especially Cherry at his age, have shown they are able deputies to Brown and Rambo for full internationals.

I am also not a fan of throwing all the youngsters in together (feels different if an A game). So if Thomson and/or Chamberlain are going on tour to potentially be capped I'd rather see Price and Johnson either side of them.

If we want to see loads of inexperienced guys like Hutchinson, McLean etc then lets do it but it should be an A "tour".

[I like neeps]

They should just make the whole thing an A team set of games.

It will be an A team whatever I think. Without a handful of Lions and I can't see them getting the senior senior players such as Nel, Brown, Gray's etc to lace up Vs Romania.

Would be really exciting if we could cap Ashman and Chapman. Two guys going great guns down in England.

I am just wary of throwing caps around really. Ashman is 3rd choice Sale hooker and Turner and Cherry, especially Cherry at his age, have shown they are able deputies to Brown and Rambo for full internationals.

I am also not a fan of throwing all the youngsters in together (feels different if an A game). So if Thomson and/or Chamberlain are going on tour to potentially be capped I'd rather see Price and Johnson either side of them.

If we want to see loads of inexperienced guys like Hutchinson, McLean etc then lets do it but it should be an A "tour".

It's not throwing caps around if it's an A game though. I'd probably consider Hastings if the game Vs Romania is an official international I'm not suggesting playing guys with no gametime. Sometimes Ashman is second choice at sale and Chapman is second choice at Gloucester having a good year. It'll likely be Dobie and Shiel though.

Hutchinson doesn't fit with Townsend anymore. Would be surprised if we see him get another 5 caps.

[Slick]

Watson voted player of the 6N

[westport]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Thoroughly deserved.

[Slick]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Thoroughly deserved.

Have you seen the video of Hoggy telling him? He looked genuinely shocked

[Jock42]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Genuinely chuffed for him.

[westport]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Thoroughly deserved.

Have you seen the video of Hoggy telling him? He looked genuinely shocked

Saw that i am sure he thought he was getting his leg pulled

[KingBlairhorn]

It will be an A team whatever I think. Without a handful of Lions and I can't see them getting the senior senior players such as Nel, Brown, Gray's etc to lace up Vs Romania.

Would be really exciting if we could cap Ashman and Chapman. Two guys going great guns down in England.

I am just wary of throwing caps around really. Ashman is 3rd choice Sale hooker and Turner and Cherry, especially Cherry at his age, have shown they are able deputies to Brown and Rambo for full internationals.

I am also not a fan of throwing all the youngsters in together (feels different if an A game). So if Thomson and/or Chamberlain are going on tour to potentially be capped I'd rather see Price and Johnson either side of them.

If we want to see loads of inexperienced guys like Hutchinson, McLean etc then lets do it but it should be an A "tour".

It's not throwing caps around if it's an A game though. I'd probably consider Hastings if the game Vs Romania is an official international I'm not suggesting playing guys with no gametime. Sometimes Ashman is second choice at sale and Chapman is second choice at Gloucester having a good year. It'll likely be Dobie and Shiel though.

Hutchinson doesn't fit with Townsend anymore. Would be surprised if we see him get another 5 caps.

If it’s a full cap ‘A’ game against Romania then I’d experiment big time. You could put out a very low/no cap/fringe team that would still be of good enough quality to win comfortably. The only position I struggled to think of a challenger for was tight head.

Kinghorn, Blain, Hutchinson, Redpath, McLean, Hastings, Dobie; Schoeman, Ashman, ?, Skinner, Craig, Crosbie, Gordon, Miller

The likes of Hunter-Hill, Velacott, Glen Young and Jake Kerr could all be around the squad too.

[KingBlairhorn]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Genuinely chuffed for him.

Yeah, made me smile. He looks so pleased!

[Biffer]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Thoroughly deserved.

Have you seen the video of Hoggy telling him? He looked genuinely shocked

He always comes over as a very humble guy. Delighted for him.

[I like neeps]

I am just wary of throwing caps around really. Ashman is 3rd choice Sale hooker and Turner and Cherry, especially Cherry at his age, have shown they are able deputies to Brown and Rambo for full internationals.

I am also not a fan of throwing all the youngsters in together (feels different if an A game). So if Thomson and/or Chamberlain are going on tour to potentially be capped I'd rather see Price and Johnson either side of them.

If we want to see loads of inexperienced guys like Hutchinson, McLean etc then lets do it but it should be an A "tour".

It's not throwing caps around if it's an A game though. I'd probably consider Hastings if the game Vs Romania is an official international I'm not suggesting playing guys with no gametime. Sometimes Ashman is second choice at sale and Chapman is second choice at Gloucester having a good year. It'll likely be Dobie and Shiel though.

Hutchinson doesn't fit with Townsend anymore. Would be surprised if we see him get another 5 caps.

If it’s a full cap ‘A’ game against Romania then I’d experiment big time. You could put out a very low/no cap/fringe team that would still be of good enough quality to win comfortably. The only position I struggled to think of a challenger for was tight head.

Kinghorn, Blain, Hutchinson, Redpath, McLean, Hastings, Dobie; Schoeman, Ashman, ?, Skinner, Craig, Crosbie, Gordon, Miller

The likes of Hunter-Hill, Velacott, Glen Young and Jake Kerr could all be around the squad too.

Hunter-Hill shouldn't be called up until he plays top league rugby imo. Especially as Cammy Henderson is playing well for Leicester. And Hodgson/Davidson playing almost weekly for Edinburgh.

Glen Young is a good shout too.

[Tattie]

Watson voted player of the 6N

Totally deserved and absolutely delighted for him. My favourite current Scottish player and in my top 3 favourite of all time along with Fin Calder and Gary Armstrong.

[Big D]

If it’s a full cap ‘A’ game against Romania then I’d experiment big time. You could put out a very low/no cap/fringe team that would still be of good enough quality to win comfortably. The only position I struggled to think of a challenger for was tight head.

Kinghorn, Blain, Hutchinson, Redpath, McLean, Hastings, Dobie; Schoeman, Ashman, ?, Skinner, Craig, Crosbie, Gordon, Miller

The likes of Hunter-Hill, Velacott, Glen Young and Jake Kerr could all be around the squad too.

I wouldn't be afraid of sticking one or four starters in there even if an A team, Ritchie could captain and the likes of Fagerson and Redpath would benefit from more international games:

Shoeman
Cherry
Berghan
Craig
Skinner
Ritchie
Crosbie
Fagerson
Dobie
Hastings
McLean
Redpath
Jones/Hutchinson (or maybe Dingwall* if he can be turned)
Graham
Kinghorn

Ashman, Bhatti, AN Other, Young, Miller, Mini Horne if fit, Chamberlain/Thomson, Jones/Hutchinson, Blain

[Yr Alban]

Anyone seen the sheer state of this?

I don’t use the word about many people, but I genuinely hate Matt Williams. He inherited the guts of the team that won the final 5N. He jettisoned several senior players (including Toony himself, at the grand age of 30) and utterly failed to get a tune out of the rest, to the extent that he lost every game but 3 (all of the wins against lower ranked teams). And if that wasn’t enough, he brought Dan Parks over from Australia and installed him at 10. I genuinely think that if we had never appointed him, Scottish Rugby would never have reached the depths we did.

And here he is, explaining how none of it was his fault and it was all down to the SRU being an amateur outfit. On Irish TV, of course, because he wouldn’t dare do it in Scotland.

I am perfectly prepared to believe the SRU’s approach was amateur. But the most amateur thing they ever did was give this chancer a job.

[Slick]

Anyone seen the sheer state of this?

I don’t use the word about many people, but I genuinely hate Matt Williams. He inherited the guts of the team that won the final 5N. He jettisoned several senior players (including Toony himself, at the grand age of 30) and utterly failed to get a tune out of the rest, to the extent that he lost every game but 3 (all of the wins against lower ranked teams). And if that wasn’t enough, he brought Dan Parks over from Australia and installed him at 10. I genuinely think that if we had never appointed him, Scottish Rugby would never have reached the depths we did.

And here he is, explaining how none of it was his fault and it was all down to the SRU being an amateur outfit. On Irish TV, of course, because he wouldn’t dare do it in Scotland.

I am perfectly prepared to believe the SRU’s approach was amateur. But the most amateur thing they ever did was give this chancer a job.

A remarkable double here, Williams, easily the worst coach we have ever had and an Irish rugby show giving him air time, god I hate Irish rugby.

Christ, Frank Hadden came in and had the same issues presumably but managed to more than double his win percentage. As did Robinson.... He has easily, and by a huge distance, the worst record of any Scotland coach ever.

Sorry, this has annoyed me.

[Yr Alban]

Someone posted a potential team that was available to Williams in 2005.

Smith, Bulloch, Ewan Murray
Hines, Scott Murray
White, Taylor, Carl Hogg
Blair (or Cusiter), Paterson
Webster, Craig, Henderson, Sean Lamont
Rory Lamont

OK, the outside backs aren’t great. But aside from that, it’s actually a pretty strong outfit. 5 of the pack toured with the Lions, plus Blair and Cusiter. The fact that Matt Williams made them into a wooden spoon team is, frankly, fecking criminal.

Edit: sorry, 6 of the pack were Lions. Scott Murray and Carl Hogg the only ones that didn’t make it in to a tour, though aside from Tom Smith, I think only Bulloch got a Test cap.

[Big D]

Someone posted a potential team that was available to Williams in 2005.

Smith, Bulloch, Ewan Murray
Hines, Scott Murray
White, Taylor, Carl Hogg
Blair (or Cusiter), Paterson
Webster, Craig, Henderson, Sean Lamont
Rory Lamont

OK, the outside backs aren’t great. But aside from that, it’s actually a pretty strong outfit. 5 of the pack toured with the Lions, plus Blair and Cusiter. The fact that Matt Williams made them into a wooden spoon team is, frankly, fecking criminal.

Edit: sorry, 6 of the pack were Lions. Scott Murray and Carl Hogg the only ones that didn’t make it in to a tour, though aside from Tom Smith, I think only Bulloch got a Test cap.

Scott Murray was a lion in 2011.

Carl Hogg? Ally Hogg maybe?
He gave debuts to Ally Hogg and Philp too. Philp was better than those centres above imo.

[Yr Alban]

Someone posted a potential team that was available to Williams in 2005.

Smith, Bulloch, Ewan Murray
Hines, Scott Murray
White, Taylor, Carl Hogg
Blair (or Cusiter), Paterson
Webster, Craig, Henderson, Sean Lamont
Rory Lamont

OK, the outside backs aren’t great. But aside from that, it’s actually a pretty strong outfit. 5 of the pack toured with the Lions, plus Blair and Cusiter. The fact that Matt Williams made them into a wooden spoon team is, frankly, fecking criminal.

Edit: sorry, 6 of the pack were Lions. Scott Murray and Carl Hogg the only ones that didn’t make it in to a tour, though aside from Tom Smith, I think only Bulloch got a Test cap.

Scott Murray was a lion in 2011.

Carl Hogg? Ally Hogg maybe?
He gave debuts to Ally Hogg and Philp too. Philp was better than those centres above imo.

Sorry, I meant Ally Hogg. Not the first time I’ve mixed up those two. So that’s almost an all-Lions forward pack, the vast majority of whom got picked when the national team was underachieving.

And yes, Tom Philip looked like he could be a real player for us, and then was lost to injury.

[Yr Alban]

Huw Jones replaced for Glasgow after 15 mins. Hope he’s OK.

[Biffer]

Someone posted a potential team that was available to Williams in 2005.

Smith, Bulloch, Ewan Murray
Hines, Scott Murray
White, Taylor, Carl Hogg
Blair (or Cusiter), Paterson
Webster, Craig, Henderson, Sean Lamont
Rory Lamont

OK, the outside backs aren’t great. But aside from that, it’s actually a pretty strong outfit. 5 of the pack toured with the Lions, plus Blair and Cusiter. The fact that Matt Williams made them into a wooden spoon team is, frankly, fecking criminal.

Edit: sorry, 6 of the pack were Lions. Scott Murray and Carl Hogg the only ones that didn’t make it in to a tour, though aside from Tom Smith, I think only Bulloch got a Test cap.

Also, Townsend. 30 /31 during the 2004 /5 six nations tournaments.

[Yr Alban]

Someone posted a potential team that was available to Williams in 2005.

Smith, Bulloch, Ewan Murray
Hines, Scott Murray
White, Taylor, Carl Hogg
Blair (or Cusiter), Paterson
Webster, Craig, Henderson, Sean Lamont
Rory Lamont

OK, the outside backs aren’t great. But aside from that, it’s actually a pretty strong outfit. 5 of the pack toured with the Lions, plus Blair and Cusiter. The fact that Matt Williams made them into a wooden spoon team is, frankly, fecking criminal.

Edit: sorry, 6 of the pack were Lions. Scott Murray and Carl Hogg the only ones that didn’t make it in to a tour, though aside from Tom Smith, I think only Bulloch got a Test cap.

Also, Townsend. 30 /31 during the 2004 /5 six nations tournaments.

Yep. I mentioned further up that the first thing Williams did was tell a number of stalwarts, including Toony, that they were surplus to requirements. As you say, he was only 30 during th3 2004 6N, and although he blew hot and cold for Scotland, he was still our most talented back.

It wouldn’t be fair to say that Scotland were already in a bit of a slump when Williams arrived. We’d posted some pretty heavy 6N defeats in the preceding two seasons. But Williams lengthened and deepened it, and installed a losing mentality that it took us years to shake off. He bears more responsibility for 15 miserable years than any other man alive. And he still thinks none of it was down to him.

[KingBlairhorn]

It's not throwing caps around if it's an A game though. I'd probably consider Hastings if the game Vs Romania is an official international I'm not suggesting playing guys with no gametime. Sometimes Ashman is second choice at sale and Chapman is second choice at Gloucester having a good year. It'll likely be Dobie and Shiel though.

Hutchinson doesn't fit with Townsend anymore. Would be surprised if we see him get another 5 caps.

If it’s a full cap ‘A’ game against Romania then I’d experiment big time. You could put out a very low/no cap/fringe team that would still be of good enough quality to win comfortably. The only position I struggled to think of a challenger for was tight head.

Kinghorn, Blain, Hutchinson, Redpath, McLean, Hastings, Dobie; Schoeman, Ashman, ?, Skinner, Craig, Crosbie, Gordon, Miller

The likes of Hunter-Hill, Velacott, Glen Young and Jake Kerr could all be around the squad too.

Hunter-Hill shouldn't be called up until he plays top league rugby imo. Especially as Cammy Henderson is playing well for Leicester. And Hodgson/Davidson playing almost weekly for Edinburgh.

Glen Young is a good shout too.

I hadn’t actually realised Henderson has been getting game time in the prem; I noticed he played (alongside Matt Scott at 12 btw) in their win against Connacht last night. Any views on whether he has played well? Is he first pick? If he is, that’s good going for a 21 year old.

I hope he considers himself Scottish, anyone know if he’s still interested?

[Big D]

Rumours on the Edinburgh board that Carmichael will be calling it a day due to concussions and Sutherland dislocated his shoulder and has nerve damage.

[I like neeps]

If it’s a full cap ‘A’ game against Romania then I’d experiment big time. You could put out a very low/no cap/fringe team that would still be of good enough quality to win comfortably. The only position I struggled to think of a challenger for was tight head.

Kinghorn, Blain, Hutchinson, Redpath, McLean, Hastings, Dobie; Schoeman, Ashman, ?, Skinner, Craig, Crosbie, Gordon, Miller

The likes of Hunter-Hill, Velacott, Glen Young and Jake Kerr could all be around the squad too.

Hunter-Hill shouldn't be called up until he plays top league rugby imo. Especially as Cammy Henderson is playing well for Leicester. And Hodgson/Davidson playing almost weekly for Edinburgh.

Glen Young is a good shout too.

I hadn’t actually realised Henderson has been getting game time in the prem; I noticed he played (alongside Matt Scott at 12 btw) in their win against Connacht last night. Any views on whether he has played well? Is he first pick? If he is, that’s good going for a 21 year old.

I hope he considers himself Scottish, anyone know if he’s still interested?

He's third or fourth choice: Lavanini and Green are first pick. He's effective though, a very exciting Scottish prospect and with Borthwick coaching him a recipe for success. I watched a bit of yesterday and he made a mental error which let a Connacht player run through a ruck 40 yards. But he's very aggressive and dynamic.

He's English qualified according to Leicester so there could be shenanigans with contracts and Eddie Jones. However, he grew up in Scotland and played for us all through age grades so I'd be surprised.

Also considering Glasgow have been playing Lewis Bean and Harley at lock with Lokotui and Ioane whoever let him get away is a moron.

[Yr Alban]

Given the attrition rate we seem to have for locks, I could see him getting a cap on the summer tour.

Brutally, that’s why it can’t purely be an A tour. If we don’t have at least one cap international then we can’t capture anyone.

[Yr Alban]

Rumours on the Edinburgh board that Carmichael will be calling it a day due to concussions and Sutherland dislocated his shoulder and has nerve damage.

I went for clavicle or ACJ because of the way he was cradling his elbow, but a dislocation wouldn’t surprise me that much.

‘Nerve damage’ can mean a wide variety of things where the shoulder is concerned. Could be a relatively minor stretch of the axillary nerve that will sort itself out in a few weeks, or a major injury to the brachial plexus that would be potentially career-ending. Former is more likely, but knowing our luck with injuries...

[dkm57]

Is it just me or are Edinburgh being reffed off the park

[Jock42]

Is it just me or are Edinburgh being reffed off the park

Typical wee team

[dkm57]

Can't cope with the street smarts of the Racing pack either

[Jock42]

Nope, losing every collision. Chat ripping the utter pish

[Jock42]

What's the point of giving him 3 minutes in the 2nd half?

[Jock42]

What's the point of giving him 3 minutes in the 2nd half?

Knee heavily strapped there answers that.

Should have started with Shiel but at least he's getting a fair bit of time

[Big D]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

[Yr Alban]

What an awful result, and with what looked like a strong team out as well.

[Yr Alban]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

Which is fair, but somehow Rees-Zammit seems to be immune from the same criticism, despite missing a boatload of tackles during the 6N.

[Big D]

Well that was pish.

They are a very good team and at the moment Edinburgh aren't.

Tough game for him but at times Duhan showed why the criticism of his defence is fair IMO. He makes tackles but is often out of position or bites in when he should hold out.

Which is fair, but somehow Rees-Zammit seems to be immune from the same criticism, despite missing a boatload of tackles during the 6N.

He's the new shiny toy ain't he. Although to be fair he like Duhan is very decent.

[Big D]

A minor annoyance that became more annoying as the game went on is Hastings getting players names wrong on comms. He is woeful anyway but "ball is passed to Van der Merwe.... he made good yardage there". Aye Van der Merwe that big Fijian guy with 8 on his back.

[Jock42]

A minor annoyance that became more annoying as the game went on is Hastings getting players names wrong on comms. He is woeful anyway but "ball is passed to Van der Merwe.... he made good yardage there". Aye Van der Merwe that big Fijian guy with 8 on his back.

Both him and Nicol spoke shite for 80 minutes. Even more annoying when they speak over the ref as he's giving an explanation then proceed to talk shite about the reasoning