NPR

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:59 am Your bar for what constitutes "triggered" appears to be a line painted on the floor.

but I think you are with Toga

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:41 pm Championship clubs will have to formally pair with a Premiership club. It's like this now to some extent in an unofficial capacity but it would need to be formalised. The Championship then becomes a de facto 'A' league. Removing the bulk of salaries from Championship clubs should hopefully make them more viable.

That makes sense from a Championship perspective, although they still need to pay for ground rent and all that (though I imagine existing financials in this hypothetical future are up in the air), but are you saying that Premiership clubs would essentially pay for 2 squads?

Premiership clubs currently have senior squads of about 60 players. This typically includes anything from 13 ex-academy players (Bristol) up to 35 ex-academy players (Leicester). Additionally, they will have a senior academy where players are transitioning from junior rugby but are still under 21yrs or thereabouts. This makes a total of about 70 players. Lets assume that 20% are injured at any given time and that still leaves 56 fit players needing a match every week. In short, the Premiership clubs are already funding enough players to put out two sides every week.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:43 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:41 pm Championship clubs will have to formally pair with a Premiership club. It's like this now to some extent in an unofficial capacity but it would need to be formalised. The Championship then becomes a de facto 'A' league. Removing the bulk of salaries from Championship clubs should hopefully make them more viable.

That makes sense from a Championship perspective, although they still need to pay for ground rent and all that (though I imagine existing financials in this hypothetical future are up in the air), but are you saying that Premiership clubs would essentially pay for 2 squads?

Premiership clubs currently have senior squads of about 60 players. This typically includes anything from 13 ex-academy players (Bristol) up to 35 ex-academy players (Leicester). Additionally, they will have a senior academy where players are transitioning from junior rugby but are still under 21yrs or thereabouts. This makes a total of about 70 players. Lets assume that 20% are injured at any given time and that still leaves 56 fit players needing a match every week. In short, the Premiership clubs are already funding enough players to play two sides every week.

Mmm, that seems high. Quins have 49 including their academy. And you need to have fit bodies for training - as Gustard and others have pointed out during big injury runs, not having enough warm bodies for training is a real problem.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:04 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:43 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm

That makes sense from a Championship perspective, although they still need to pay for ground rent and all that (though I imagine existing financials in this hypothetical future are up in the air), but are you saying that Premiership clubs would essentially pay for 2 squads?

Premiership clubs currently have senior squads of about 60 players. This typically includes anything from 13 ex-academy players (Bristol) up to 35 ex-academy players (Leicester). Additionally, they will have a senior academy where players are transitioning from junior rugby but are still under 21yrs or thereabouts. This makes a total of about 70 players. Lets assume that 20% are injured at any given time and that still leaves 56 fit players needing a match every week. In short, the Premiership clubs are already funding enough players to play two sides every week.

Mmm, that seems high. Quins have 49 including their academy. And you need to have fit bodies for training - as Gustard and others have pointed out during big injury runs, not having enough warm bodies for training is a real problem.

According to Rugbypass, Quins have bang-on 60 players in their senior squad for the 19/20 season.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis ... r-2019-20/

Are academies necessary? Why not establish 'farm teams' like US sports have? ... I feel like this kind of exists, remembering some Wasps noobs would be 'dual registered'. Could be a way to save a fair bit of money.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:10 pmAccording to Rugbypass, Quins have bang-on 60 players in their senior squad for the 19/20 season.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis ... r-2019-20/

That seems miles off, even for last season. I've just checked the updated spreadsheet someone on the Quins board did for the 2019 season, and it's 54 players including academy, so 46 senior players. We have 44 seniors this season according to the press release I just dug up, and the number I gave earlier was from headcounting on our official page.

I think rugbypass are working off bad data. 60 players would be a gigantic senior squad for sure.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:43 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:10 pmAccording to Rugbypass, Quins have bang-on 60 players in their senior squad for the 19/20 season.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis ... r-2019-20/

That seems miles off, even for last season. I've just checked the updated spreadsheet someone on the Quins board did for the 2019 season, and it's 54 players including academy, so 46 senior players. We have 44 seniors this season according to the press release I just dug up, and the number I gave earlier was from headcounting on our official page.

I think rugbypass are working off bad data. 60 players would be a gigantic senior squad for sure.

60 isn't a remarkable number compared to the other clubs. This article is likely using a list of players registered to that club with the RFU. Some of them might well be dual-registered with Championship clubs and I suspect those players might not appear on any lists you have seen.

Sorry, I think it's more likely that the tabloid-ish news site has its facts wrong!

For some other context, taken from the Rugby Paper:

Rugby Pass employs Jim Hamilton to write articles.

Yes, THAT Jim Hamilton. 'nuff said.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:38 pm Sorry, I think it's more likely that the tabloid-ish news site has its facts wrong!

For some other context, taken from the Rugby Paper:

Not sure a Reddit link is any more reliable! However, if it is true...

Saracens have a squad nearly half the size of Exeter's and Exeter are supposed to be the whiter-than-white club with the same owner and sponsor?

Hmmm...

The numbers for some certainly tally with my own counts!

Exeter: the wiki page referenced now reads 69 players, not 75, and it seems pretty clearly to be the EPDG + academy + senior squad as it includes people who aren't even on the Exeter "seniors+academy" squad page on their site [which is 60 people in total].

And their capped players don't have bags of caps (Hogg aside, + maybe Slade) and not many Lions...

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:07 pm The numbers for some certainly tally with my own counts!

Exeter: the wiki page referenced now reads 69 players, not 75, and it seems pretty clearly to be the EPDG + academy + senior squad as it includes people who aren't even on the Exeter "seniors+academy" squad page on their site [which is 60 people in total].

And their capped players don't have bags of caps (Hogg aside, + maybe Slade) and not many Lions...

That is still a very large number of players on the payroll.

Niegs wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:20 pm Are academies necessary? Why not establish 'farm teams' like US sports have? ... I feel like this kind of exists, remembering some Wasps noobs would be 'dual registered'. Could be a way to save a fair bit of money.

US sports are closed shops, so it's easier to maintain teams you can use as rehab/development squads as opposed to the theory that any team can make it to the Prem, so you can't just have Wasps B who permanently stay in the Championship or similar.

69 for senior squad + academy + EPDG? I thought you said that 70 was expected for senior squad + academy... :)

It's a lot regardless, but having a look through the squad on their site and there's a large number of 20/21 year olds. Those tend not to be on very big contracts if they're not starters.

Born 1998:
Corey Baldwin
Facundo Cordero
Patrick Shickerling
Joe Snow

1999:
Aaron Hinckley
James Kenny
Max Norey
Lewis Pearson
Alfie Petch
Danny Southworth
Marcus Street
Charlie Wright
Tom Wyatt

2000:
Richard Capstick
Josh Hodge
Sam Maunder
Rus Tuima
Jack Walsh
Will Yarnell

That's a huge number of callow yoof

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:21 pm

Niegs wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:20 pm Are academies necessary? Why not establish 'farm teams' like US sports have? ... I feel like this kind of exists, remembering some Wasps noobs would be 'dual registered'. Could be a way to save a fair bit of money.

US sports are closed shops, so it's easier to maintain teams you can use as rehab/development squads as opposed to the theory that any team can make it to the Prem, so you can't just have Wasps B who permanently stay in the Championship or similar.

It sort of works in Spanish football, though.

70 would be the c.60 average senior squad members based on my source plus c.10 in the senior academy. It doesn't include the junior academy players (for obvious reasons)

There is no way Saracens, Glos, Bath etc get anywhere near 70 players if they're listed with just 39 in the senior squad.

However, we've drifted off the general theme of the idea that a Premiership club could, theoretically, run a squad big enough to populate two squads of players pretty well throughout the season. One for the Premiership and one for their Championship wingman.

The Championship/Premiership 'A' side would still play under the old club name/brand and raise revenue through the gate/bar etc as before and any surplus could be used to strengthen the local school/junior club network as part of the parent club's academy development catchment area.

Quins lost a couple of forwards already. And we've got a 6/2 split, hoping our pack can perhaps take advantage, but still not confident. Quins are always a pain to play.

Yeah that's the death knell for our chances I think

Surprised the TMO missed Willis being taken out in the air there. Should have gone back to the knock on.

Interesting scrummaging angle!

Can't see how we win this if every scrum is going to be that one sided. Bollocks :(

Good try.

Saw the try, now it's all gone green... new link needed I guess.

Raggs wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:59 pm Saw the try, now it's all gone green... new link needed I guess.

Quality's not great (could be my interenet out in the sticks), but it's steady.
http://live.harleyquinnwidget.live/str ... 38897.html

My stream is back. Nice attack from Quins there, unlucky not to finish it.

Monye shouldn't be anywhere near a microphone for Quins matches. He's worse than Kay watching Leicester.

Christ, scrums are a horror show for Quins.

Not a good end to that promising attack.

Turns out a pair of lightweight locks and a third choice loosehead aren't going to have a good day

Robson lucky there. Ball would have been away if he hadn't bumped the 8.

Quins aren't going to win this if they can't scrum though

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:04 pm Monye shouldn't be anywhere near a microphone for Quins matches. He's worse than Kay watching Leicester.

He wasn't wrong. Especially as we have Dallaglio cheering for wasps!

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:05 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:04 pm Monye shouldn't be anywhere near a microphone for Quins matches. He's worse than Kay watching Leicester.

He wasn't wrong. Especially as we have Dallaglio cheering for wasps!

Neither of them should commentate on their teams. Neither are really the best either in my mind, but this is always going to be even worse, given the affiliation.

Well that's a weird substitution

Well that's an inspired substitution

Nice passage there.

Nice from Quins. Always annoying to see a stolen lineout go against a side. Not that the bad steal had much of an effect there, good try and good line.

Any chance the replacement is temporary?

Oh no wasps concede a scrum how unfortunate for them

Another link here if required

https://rugbystreams.me/harlequins-vs-w ... e/stream-1

Having Smith's hair would drive you mental. Has to sweep it out of his eyes every 5 seconds.

You're a pro athlete. Think of the marginal gains and cut it mate

Lucky there I thought, looked like we went past the ball with hands on the floor

I love Steele's attitude and his appetite for the fight but his basics can be so bad :(