Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Torquemada 1420]

Ain't that the truth !

You could also add; "& are very lucky"

I waited a long time, because I saw Ireland had an unsustainable bubble, but I still had to wait for years, & then I got lucky, when I got offered redundancy, & my payoff & savings made it possible to buy without having a mortgage. Which was just as well, because the Banks weren't going to offer me a Mortgage when I was only a wet week in my new job.

Yes. Luck is a huge part too. I'd not be looking to buy a shed at the moment though!

[Biffer]

I get pissed off at people who ask me to defend frothing loons but then in turn get offended when I ask them to defend, for example, the orange order fuckwits on the union side.

Everyone is of course entitled to an opinion, but if they stray into dangerous territory then they should at least show they have some idea of what the the fuck they are talking about,

It was a while ago, but the leader of the Orange Order in Scotland threatened terrorist violence in an independent Scotland, there have been members of that organisation convicted for actions supporting the UVF and others, I actually know someone who was convicted of gun running.

I think it's incumbent on everyone to dial it down a notch and it would be a start to not do what this character is attempting on this thread and blame "the other side" for all ills, there are angry people on both sides, it would be better to spray some water on this than throw petrol.

Are you referring to me?

[Tichtheid]

I get pissed off at people who ask me to defend frothing loons but then in turn get offended when I ask them to defend, for example, the orange order fuckwits on the union side.

Everyone is of course entitled to an opinion, but if they stray into dangerous territory then they should at least show they have some idea of what the the fuck they are talking about,

It was a while ago, but the leader of the Orange Order in Scotland threatened terrorist violence in an independent Scotland, there have been members of that organisation convicted for actions supporting the UVF and others, I actually know someone who was convicted of gun running.

I think it's incumbent on everyone to dial it down a notch and it would be a start to not do what this character is attempting on this thread and blame "the other side" for all ills, there are angry people on both sides, it would be better to spray some water on this than throw petrol.

Are you referring to me?

Certainly not, the ia numbers guy was talking about the worst of the vitriol being one-sided or heavily lopsided.

There are many bad actors, as petej pointed out, there are also misinformed actors and uninformed actors.

[JM2K6]

This is my new thing. I’ve joined 3 local campaign groups in the last couple of weeks and volunteering my time and political networks to help where I can. The state of our seas and waterways makes me fume and it’s doesn’t seem to me to be a particularly difficult thing to sort out of there was any will.

In saying that, seeing the fucking state of the beach the morning after a warm night makes me wonder how many people actually give a shit, it’s quite depressing

Good on you.

On your final point, I read some interesting theories by people recently that there's a sense of "giving up" leading to a breakdown in the social contract. England's government hasn't bothered to do jack shit for the people for a long time, everyone feels like life is getting worse and that there's no real hope, and as a result there's no pride in the country or the environment. It's quite a nihilistic viewpoint but having spent a bit of time abroad and in some of England's less populous areas the difference is stark; England is fucking depressing.

[Torquemada 1420]

Notice they've been dumping shit again. I'm also very curious about the first pfas measurements as monitoring was only required relatively recently (see link)
https://cdn.dwi.gov.uk/wp-content/uploa ... toring.pdf

Petition against it here

https://www.sas.org.uk/bathingriverspetition/?

[Torquemada 1420]

On your final point, I read some interesting theories by people recently that there's a sense of "giving up" leading to a breakdown in the social contract. England's government hasn't bothered to do jack shit for the people for a long time, everyone feels like life is getting worse and that there's no real hope, and as a result there's no pride in the country or the environment. It's quite a nihilistic viewpoint but having spent a bit of time abroad and in some of England's less populous areas the difference is stark; England is fucking depressing.

We can honestly lay most of this as the door of the Tories but ineffectual opposition hasn't helped.

[fishfoodie]

Now what more can they divest themselves of I wonder ?

Jacob Rees-Mogg has urged the next prime minister to slash back the government’s role as a prize of Brexit, suggesting it should not “deliver certain functions at all”.

A strong supporter of Liz Truss to win the race for No 10, the arch-Brexiteer called for “a re-thinking of the British state” – arguing mere cuts in public spending will not go far enough.

The Leave campaign won the 2016 campaign partly on a promise to boost spending, notably by £350m-a-week on the NHS, but Mr Rees-Mogg is pointing to a different agenda.

“Our departure from the European Union necessitates a re-thinking of the British state,” the minister for Brexit opportunities has written in a newspaper article.

“This means going beyond ministers looking for fiscal trims and haircuts and considering whether the state should deliver certain functions at all.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 47602.html

[tabascoboy]

Now what more can they divest themselves of I wonder ?

Jacob Rees-Mogg has urged the next prime minister to slash back the government’s role as a prize of Brexit, suggesting it should not “deliver certain functions at all”.

A strong supporter of Liz Truss to win the race for No 10, the arch-Brexiteer called for “a re-thinking of the British state” – arguing mere cuts in public spending will not go far enough.

The Leave campaign won the 2016 campaign partly on a promise to boost spending, notably by £350m-a-week on the NHS, but Mr Rees-Mogg is pointing to a different agenda.

“Our departure from the European Union necessitates a re-thinking of the British state,” the minister for Brexit opportunities has written in a newspaper article.

“This means going beyond ministers looking for fiscal trims and haircuts and considering whether the state should deliver certain functions at all.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 47602.html

Yet another attempt to smooth the way to selling off the NHS...

[Raggs]

So the Tories are secretly anarchists?

[fishfoodie]

So the Tories are secretly anarchists?

I don't think it's really been a secret for that last few years

[Biffer]

Everyone is of course entitled to an opinion, but if they stray into dangerous territory then they should at least show they have some idea of what the the fuck they are talking about,

It was a while ago, but the leader of the Orange Order in Scotland threatened terrorist violence in an independent Scotland, there have been members of that organisation convicted for actions supporting the UVF and others, I actually know someone who was convicted of gun running.

I think it's incumbent on everyone to dial it down a notch and it would be a start to not do what this character is attempting on this thread and blame "the other side" for all ills, there are angry people on both sides, it would be better to spray some water on this than throw petrol.

Are you referring to me?

Certainly not, the ia numbers guy was talking about the worst of the vitriol being one-sided or heavily lopsided.

There are many bad actors, as petej pointed out, there are also misinformed actors and uninformed actors.

wasn’t certain, could’ve been read both ways! Didn’t think you would be though.

[Hal Jordan]

Now what more can they divest themselves of I wonder ?

Jacob Rees-Mogg has urged the next prime minister to slash back the government’s role as a prize of Brexit, suggesting it should not “deliver certain functions at all”.

A strong supporter of Liz Truss to win the race for No 10, the arch-Brexiteer called for “a re-thinking of the British state” – arguing mere cuts in public spending will not go far enough.

The Leave campaign won the 2016 campaign partly on a promise to boost spending, notably by £350m-a-week on the NHS, but Mr Rees-Mogg is pointing to a different agenda.

“Our departure from the European Union necessitates a re-thinking of the British state,” the minister for Brexit opportunities has written in a newspaper article.

“This means going beyond ministers looking for fiscal trims and haircuts and considering whether the state should deliver certain functions at all.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 47602.html

I'm not a vindictive man, but there are certain people upon whom I wish utter financial and social ruin, just to see how they fare.

[fishfoodie]

Now what more can they divest themselves of I wonder ?

Jacob Rees-Mogg has urged the next prime minister to slash back the government’s role as a prize of Brexit, suggesting it should not “deliver certain functions at all”.

A strong supporter of Liz Truss to win the race for No 10, the arch-Brexiteer called for “a re-thinking of the British state” – arguing mere cuts in public spending will not go far enough.

The Leave campaign won the 2016 campaign partly on a promise to boost spending, notably by £350m-a-week on the NHS, but Mr Rees-Mogg is pointing to a different agenda.

“Our departure from the European Union necessitates a re-thinking of the British state,” the minister for Brexit opportunities has written in a newspaper article.

“This means going beyond ministers looking for fiscal trims and haircuts and considering whether the state should deliver certain functions at all.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 47602.html

I'm not a vindictive man, but there are certain people upon whom I wish utter financial and social ruin, just to see how they fare.

This, of the Dukes at the end of the movie

[SaintK]

Surely not?

Liz Truss has been accused of holding up publication of the Foreign Office’s annual human rights report because it is likely to contain criticisms of Rwanda’s human rights record.
This year’s version of the annual assessment of how the UK views other countries’ rights records was due before the parliamentary summer recess, and is now the most delayed since the review was launched by the then foreign secretary Robin Cook 21 years ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ ... of-rwanda

[Slick]

This is my new thing. I’ve joined 3 local campaign groups in the last couple of weeks and volunteering my time and political networks to help where I can. The state of our seas and waterways makes me fume and it’s doesn’t seem to me to be a particularly difficult thing to sort out of there was any will.

In saying that, seeing the fucking state of the beach the morning after a warm night makes me wonder how many people actually give a shit, it’s quite depressing

Good on you.

On your final point, I read some interesting theories by people recently that there's a sense of "giving up" leading to a breakdown in the social contract. England's government hasn't bothered to do jack shit for the people for a long time, everyone feels like life is getting worse and that there's no real hope, and as a result there's no pride in the country or the environment. It's quite a nihilistic viewpoint but having spent a bit of time abroad and in some of England's less populous areas the difference is stark; England is fucking depressing.

Funnily enough I was thinking about that yesterday. We have a binman strike started here in Edinburgh today and I'm absolutely dreading the impact round here, folk are just going to be dumping their crap on the streets next to overflowing bins and you just know that the first bit of fly tipping is going to cause a lot more. The beach gets a running over most morning by a tractor hoovering up the mess and if that isn't happening it's going to be a disaster over the weekends. It's the broken windows theory isn't it?

It's all about education really anyway. I was really shocked the other day when I challenged a group of kids walking off the beach leaving a huge mess behind and asked them to pick it up, they seemed genuinely shocked that it was a "thing" to clear your shit.

[dpedin]

This is my new thing. I’ve joined 3 local campaign groups in the last couple of weeks and volunteering my time and political networks to help where I can. The state of our seas and waterways makes me fume and it’s doesn’t seem to me to be a particularly difficult thing to sort out of there was any will.

In saying that, seeing the fucking state of the beach the morning after a warm night makes me wonder how many people actually give a shit, it’s quite depressing

Good on you.

On your final point, I read some interesting theories by people recently that there's a sense of "giving up" leading to a breakdown in the social contract. England's government hasn't bothered to do jack shit for the people for a long time, everyone feels like life is getting worse and that there's no real hope, and as a result there's no pride in the country or the environment. It's quite a nihilistic viewpoint but having spent a bit of time abroad and in some of England's less populous areas the difference is stark; England is fucking depressing.

Funnily enough I was thinking about that yesterday. We have a binman strike started here in Edinburgh today and I'm absolutely dreading the impact round here, folk are just going to be dumping their crap on the streets next to overflowing bins and you just know that the first bit of fly tipping is going to cause a lot more. The beach gets a running over most morning by a tractor hoovering up the mess and if that isn't happening it's going to be a disaster over the weekends. It's the broken windows theory isn't it?

It's all about education really anyway. I was really shocked the other day when I challenged a group of kids walking off the beach leaving a huge mess behind and asked them to pick it up, they seemed genuinely shocked that it was a "thing" to clear your shit.

https://netherlands.postsen.com/sports/ ... elves.html

[Tichtheid]

From Mick Lynch, on the RMT website


To Secretary of State for Transport Grant Shapps

“I am writing to you as to the Secretary of State for Transport to express my concern at your continued insistence on prolonging the rail disputes for political reasons by refusing to meet the RMT while at the same time dictating how the train companies conduct the negotiations through a shameful and irresponsible use of taxpayers’ money.

Your government has made the decision to use taxpayer money to bailout private train companies from being liable for revenue lost because of industrial action on the condition the same companies comply with government instructions to hold down pay, cut thousands of safety critical rail jobs, introduce Driver Only Trains and close ticket offices across the network.

RMT calculates that, including the previous and forthcoming action, over £120m of taxpayer’s money will have to be used to bail out private train companies to date.[ii]

What’s even more shocking is as the majority of the Train Operating Companies involved in the dispute are fully or partly foreign state owned, this bail out is worth over £100m to companies in full or part foreign state ownership.

Using taxpayers’ money to satisfy the anti-union agenda of the Tory party and seek to break the trade unions is shameful and also means the dispute will be prolonged indefinitely as the train companies don’t lose a penny as a result of the industrial action and therefore have no incentive to settle the disputes.

My union has met representatives of both the Scottish and Welsh governments and have had constructive discussions about the rail services they are responsible for that are not involved in this dispute, but in contrast your government refuses to engage.

I would urge you once again to allow for a fair negotiated settlement instead of waging ideological war against rail workers.”

[Slick]

Good on you.

On your final point, I read some interesting theories by people recently that there's a sense of "giving up" leading to a breakdown in the social contract. England's government hasn't bothered to do jack shit for the people for a long time, everyone feels like life is getting worse and that there's no real hope, and as a result there's no pride in the country or the environment. It's quite a nihilistic viewpoint but having spent a bit of time abroad and in some of England's less populous areas the difference is stark; England is fucking depressing.

Funnily enough I was thinking about that yesterday. We have a binman strike started here in Edinburgh today and I'm absolutely dreading the impact round here, folk are just going to be dumping their crap on the streets next to overflowing bins and you just know that the first bit of fly tipping is going to cause a lot more. The beach gets a running over most morning by a tractor hoovering up the mess and if that isn't happening it's going to be a disaster over the weekends. It's the broken windows theory isn't it?

It's all about education really anyway. I was really shocked the other day when I challenged a group of kids walking off the beach leaving a huge mess behind and asked them to pick it up, they seemed genuinely shocked that it was a "thing" to clear your shit.

https://netherlands.postsen.com/sports/ ... elves.html

ermm, thanks. Whats that?

[SaintK]

From Mick Lynch, on the RMT website


To Secretary of State for Transport Grant Shapps

“I am writing to you as to the Secretary of State for Transport to express my concern at your continued insistence on prolonging the rail disputes for political reasons by refusing to meet the RMT while at the same time dictating how the train companies conduct the negotiations through a shameful and irresponsible use of taxpayers’ money.

Your government has made the decision to use taxpayer money to bailout private train companies from being liable for revenue lost because of industrial action on the condition the same companies comply with government instructions to hold down pay, cut thousands of safety critical rail jobs, introduce Driver Only Trains and close ticket offices across the network.

RMT calculates that, including the previous and forthcoming action, over £120m of taxpayer’s money will have to be used to bail out private train companies to date.[ii]

What’s even more shocking is as the majority of the Train Operating Companies involved in the dispute are fully or partly foreign state owned, this bail out is worth over £100m to companies in full or part foreign state ownership.

Using taxpayers’ money to satisfy the anti-union agenda of the Tory party and seek to break the trade unions is shameful and also means the dispute will be prolonged indefinitely as the train companies don’t lose a penny as a result of the industrial action and therefore have no incentive to settle the disputes.

My union has met representatives of both the Scottish and Welsh governments and have had constructive discussions about the rail services they are responsible for that are not involved in this dispute, but in contrast your government refuses to engage.

I would urge you once again to allow for a fair negotiated settlement instead of waging ideological war against rail workers.”

Could have mentioned this as well.

The under-fire rail operator Avanti West Coast has been “rewarded for failure”, Labour said, after the company was paid more than £17m in taxpayers’ money by ministers for performance and management fees in just two years, despite being the worst-performing operator on the rail network.

The figures from 2019-20 and 2020-21 include almost £4m in bonuses to Avanti for “operational performance”, “customer experience” and “acting as a good and efficient operator”.

At the same time, the firm raised prices, with an open return from Manchester to London – barely a two-hour journey – costing £369.40.

The performance-related fees, signed off by transport ministers, came despite Avanti being the worst-performing operator in the country with almost half of its services arriving late. In the last two years alone the firm received more than 50,000 complaints, the most of any operator and almost double that of the parallel east coast mainline operator, LNER.

[tabascoboy]

Seven hells, Braverman being tipped by the Spectator to take over at the Home Office from Patel

[dpedin]

Funnily enough I was thinking about that yesterday. We have a binman strike started here in Edinburgh today and I'm absolutely dreading the impact round here, folk are just going to be dumping their crap on the streets next to overflowing bins and you just know that the first bit of fly tipping is going to cause a lot more. The beach gets a running over most morning by a tractor hoovering up the mess and if that isn't happening it's going to be a disaster over the weekends. It's the broken windows theory isn't it?

It's all about education really anyway. I was really shocked the other day when I challenged a group of kids walking off the beach leaving a huge mess behind and asked them to pick it up, they seemed genuinely shocked that it was a "thing" to clear your shit.

https://netherlands.postsen.com/sports/ ... elves.html

ermm, thanks. Whats that?

Not everyone leaves their rubbish behind?

'Supporters of the Scottish club Dundee United, which will play against AZ tonight, made an impression on the Nieuwmarkt yesterday. Thousands of fans threw a party and then left the square spotless. Employees of the surrounding cafes are happy with it: “It’s always fun with those Scots.”

The Scottish fans owe their trip to Amsterdam to the match that Dundee United will play against AZ tonight in the preliminary round of the Conference League. They have had to wait a long time for such an adventure, as it has been ten years since the club last played a European match.

Last night, images appeared on social media of Dundee fans partying, cleaning up their own rubbish on departure. The cafes that AT5 spoke today, confirm that the fans have indeed left the square neatly.'

[petej]

Now what more can they divest themselves of I wonder ?

Jacob Rees-Mogg has urged the next prime minister to slash back the government’s role as a prize of Brexit, suggesting it should not “deliver certain functions at all”.

A strong supporter of Liz Truss to win the race for No 10, the arch-Brexiteer called for “a re-thinking of the British state” – arguing mere cuts in public spending will not go far enough.

The Leave campaign won the 2016 campaign partly on a promise to boost spending, notably by £350m-a-week on the NHS, but Mr Rees-Mogg is pointing to a different agenda.

“Our departure from the European Union necessitates a re-thinking of the British state,” the minister for Brexit opportunities has written in a newspaper article.

“This means going beyond ministers looking for fiscal trims and haircuts and considering whether the state should deliver certain functions at all.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 47602.html

I'm not a vindictive man, but there are certain people upon whom I wish utter financial and social ruin, just to see how they fare.

Should the state regulate water suppliers and power generation (not being serious). A key problem a lot people really, really underestimate how much they are protected by such things. Ignorance is bliss

[Biffer]

What's the well known quote? We're only three meals away from savagery or something?

[Mahoney]

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2022/05/02/nine-meals/

[Torquemada 1420]

From Mick Lynch, on the RMT website


To Secretary of State for Transport Grant Shapps

“I am writing to you as to the Secretary of State for Transport to express my concern at your continued insistence on prolonging the rail disputes for political reasons by refusing to meet the RMT while at the same time dictating how the train companies conduct the negotiations through a shameful and irresponsible use of taxpayers’ money.

Your government has made the decision to use taxpayer money to bailout private train companies from being liable for revenue lost because of industrial action on the condition the same companies comply with government instructions to hold down pay, cut thousands of safety critical rail jobs, introduce Driver Only Trains and close ticket offices across the network.

RMT calculates that, including the previous and forthcoming action, over £120m of taxpayer’s money will have to be used to bail out private train companies to date.[ii]

What’s even more shocking is as the majority of the Train Operating Companies involved in the dispute are fully or partly foreign state owned, this bail out is worth over £100m to companies in full or part foreign state ownership.

Using taxpayers’ money to satisfy the anti-union agenda of the Tory party and seek to break the trade unions is shameful and also means the dispute will be prolonged indefinitely as the train companies don’t lose a penny as a result of the industrial action and therefore have no incentive to settle the disputes.

My union has met representatives of both the Scottish and Welsh governments and have had constructive discussions about the rail services they are responsible for that are not involved in this dispute, but in contrast your government refuses to engage.

I would urge you once again to allow for a fair negotiated settlement instead of waging ideological war against rail workers.”

Could have mentioned this as well.

The under-fire rail operator Avanti West Coast has been “rewarded for failure”, Labour said, after the company was paid more than £17m in taxpayers’ money by ministers for performance and management fees in just two years, despite being the worst-performing operator on the rail network.

The figures from 2019-20 and 2020-21 include almost £4m in bonuses to Avanti for “operational performance”, “customer experience” and “acting as a good and efficient operator”.

At the same time, the firm raised prices, with an open return from Manchester to London – barely a two-hour journey – costing £369.40.

The performance-related fees, signed off by transport ministers, came despite Avanti being the worst-performing operator in the country with almost half of its services arriving late. In the last two years alone the firm received more than 50,000 complaints, the most of any operator and almost double that of the parallel east coast mainline operator, LNER.

You see, I just don't get this. These f**kers are all meant to be privatised and yet receive somewhere between £5-7bn (try getting the truth from the Govt) a year in subsidies.

[fishfoodie]

Should the state regulate water suppliers and power generation (not being serious). A key problem a lot people really, really underestimate how much they are protected by such things. Ignorance is bliss

Well if this coming winter doesn't inform them, then they should probably read up on how well the Tories, ideal model for Deregulation worked !

During the crisis, some energy firms made billions in profits, while others went bankrupt, due to some firms being able to pass extremely high wholesale prices ($9,000/MWh, typically $50/MWh) on to consumers, while others could not, as well as this price being held at the $9,000 cap by ERCOT for allegedly two days longer than necessary; creating $16 billion in unnecessary charges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

[weegie01]

You see, I just don't get this. These f**kers are all meant to be privatised and yet receive somewhere between £5-7bn (try getting the truth from the Govt) a year in subsidies.

Subsidies in the right circumstances are fine. If there is a situation where it is deemed that, for the greater good prices will be held below cost, it is reasonable for the Govt to subsidise the firms doing the work else they will go out of business.

What is not reasonable is the Govt subsidising firms to the extent that they are not exposed to commercial risk, or the results of their own incompetence. It is the impression that this is happening that is so distasteful.

I am ignoring the argument about nationalisation.

[Biffer]

You see, I just don't get this. These f**kers are all meant to be privatised and yet receive somewhere between £5-7bn (try getting the truth from the Govt) a year in subsidies.

Subsidies in the right circumstances are fine. If there is a situation where it is deemed that, for the greater good prices will be held below cost, it is reasonable for the Govt to subsidise the firms doing the work else they will go out of business.

What is not reasonable is the Govt subsidising firms to the extent that they are not exposed to commercial risk, or the results of their own incompetence. It is the impression that this is happening that is so distasteful.

I am ignoring the argument about nationalisation.

These aren't true privitisations. They're companies run ing a government service under contract. Sole reason is so various PMs could say they cut the number of govt employees. There are ways this kind of public private partnership can be very useful, for example in raising investment where you get very good terms by being a company backed by the state, but these were deli eratrly set up not to look like that. So now we subsidise other countries state companies instead of our own. At least in rail we have the option to renationalise and then put a better system in. With water and electricity we could renationalise as companies fail but not with the current govt. I can see a potentially worthwhile model where generation is a mix of public, private, domestic and even not for profit with the reseller being government owned (potentially that could be under contract but I'd need to think further on that). Water is more difficult but I haven't thought much on that because ours is still state owned. Operator licenses for other utilities e.g. broadband or mobile phone should have a stricter condition attached to near universal provision of service imo - that doesn't mean you have to run cables everywhere, it means you need to provide the service, so if that's putting satellite broadband into remote villages and using local WiFi to provide mobile calls over IP then that's what it needs, and sharing between suppliers should be a part of that service provision.

Oh, and the other thing I'd do for public service is split the BBC news service entirely away from all its other provision. TV license goes to the non news bit. State subsidy for the news bit out of general taxation. Channel four stats public with no subsidy.

[tabascoboy]

Well water is a problem because there is no competition, you are stuck with whoever owns the pipes that connect your home to the infrastructure ( or else move somewhere else served by another company ). I have no issues with South East Water who provide incoming supply but would love pretty much any one but Southern Water for the waste water service, since they have been continuously fined for discharging untreated sewage while making a huge profit all the same.

[Torquemada 1420]

You see, I just don't get this. These f**kers are all meant to be privatised and yet receive somewhere between £5-7bn (try getting the truth from the Govt) a year in subsidies.

Subsidies in the right circumstances are fine. If there is a situation where it is deemed that, for the greater good prices will be held below cost, it is reasonable for the Govt to subsidise the firms doing the work else they will go out of business.

What is not reasonable is the Govt subsidising firms to the extent that they are not exposed to commercial risk, or the results of their own incompetence. It is the impression that this is happening that is so distasteful.

I am ignoring the argument about nationalisation.

Seems to me a contradiction. Private profits and public losses? A la the banks? Hey, I'd like a business where if I take wild actions that, if they pay off, I get rich, but if they fail, the public purse bails me out. I'll just keep rolling the di thank you very much.

Therein your observation resides the truth to all of this. IF a business is of the type that its existence is necessary for the greater good, then it should not be in private hands.

[Torquemada 1420]

Well water is a problem because there is no competition, you are stuck with whoever owns the pipes that connect your home to the infrastructure ( or else move somewhere else served by another company ). I have no issues with South East Water who provide incoming supply but would love pretty much any one but Southern Water for the waste water service, since they have been continuously fined for discharging untreated sewage while making a huge profit all the same.

THISSSSSSSS. As highlighted in my earlier post.

[weegie01]

You see, I just don't get this. These f**kers are all meant to be privatised and yet receive somewhere between £5-7bn (try getting the truth from the Govt) a year in subsidies.

Subsidies in the right circumstances are fine. If there is a situation where it is deemed that, for the greater good prices will be held below cost, it is reasonable for the Govt to subsidise the firms doing the work else they will go out of business.

What is not reasonable is the Govt subsidising firms to the extent that they are not exposed to commercial risk, or the results of their own incompetence. It is the impression that this is happening that is so distasteful.

I am ignoring the argument about nationalisation.

Seems to me a contradiction. Private profits and public losses? A la the banks? Hey, I'd like a business where if I take wild actions that, if they pay off, I get rich, but if they fail, the public purse bails me out. I'll just keep rolling the di thank you very much.

Therein your observation resides the truth to all of this. IF a business is of the type that its existence is necessary for the greater good, then it should not be in private hands.

It is not a contradiction at all. Your 'private profits and public losses' comment shows you misunderstand my post.

If the Govt has distorted the market in some way such that it prevents a private firm from making a profit, then there is nothing wrong in the Govt compensating the firms for the market distortion. But, as I said above, only for that and not for commercial risk or incompetence. Or they can of course just nationalise and take a larger proportion of the economy into state hands.

Saying a certain type of business should or should not be state owned depends on a whole number of factors. There are core things (eg defence) I see no argument for private provision. Outside that, I see no reason why a state organisation is necessarily better than properly regulated private firms in delivering particular services.

[ia801310]

Water and utility companies should all be nationalised

Interesting article about Mick Lynch but contains a paragraph which I think neatly explains why Remain lost and why Labour continue to struggle in elections

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/1 ... ick-lynch/

"The problem for modern ‘socialism’ is that the people spouting it today are often posh and intolerant. Working-class people (leftists’ supposed target audience) can spot this a mile away and are quickly put off. And, as we saw frequently during the Brexit years, whenever working-class people reject what is said to be good for them, the bourgeois social-justice warriors turn on those they claim to care about, calling them fascists and / or stupid. Being both out-of-touch and condescending is not exactly a winning strategy – but, bless them, the bourgeois leftists persist with it."

[JM2K6]

Ironically enough, a dreadfully sneering and condescending article. I'm glad those guys and girls at spiked, so in touch with the common people, gave her time out from ranting about trans people and wanking on about cancel culture to grace us with such an important piece.

[Jock42]

Funnily enough I was thinking about that yesterday. We have a binman strike started here in Edinburgh today and I'm absolutely dreading the impact round here, folk are just going to be dumping their crap on the streets next to overflowing bins and you just know that the first bit of fly tipping is going to cause a lot more. The beach gets a running over most morning by a tractor hoovering up the mess and if that isn't happening it's going to be a disaster over the weekends. It's the broken windows theory isn't it?

It's all about education really anyway. I was really shocked the other day when I challenged a group of kids walking off the beach leaving a huge mess behind and asked them to pick it up, they seemed genuinely shocked that it was a "thing" to clear your shit.

We have one in a week's time, the council will be allowing us to leave 3 additional bin bags to be laid next to the bin on the next collection. Seagulls will fucking love it.

[Torquemada 1420]

It is not a contradiction at all. Your 'private profits and public losses' comment shows you misunderstand my post.

If the Govt has distorted the market in some way such that it prevents a private firm from making a profit, then there is nothing wrong in the Govt compensating the firms for the market distortion. But, as I said above, only for that and not for commercial risk or incompetence. Or they can of course just nationalise and take a larger proportion of the economy into state hands.

Saying a certain type of business should or should not be state owned depends on a whole number of factors. There are core things (eg defence) I see no argument for private provision. Outside that, I see no reason why a state organisation is necessarily better than properly regulated private firms in delivering particular services.

Govts distort markets pretty much 100% of the time:
- regulation (which you mention but assumes the pie "properly")
- tariffs
are 2 examples. Name me a market NOT affected by either of these?

On your but in red, BECAUSE a monopoly can be a properly regulated private firm and it will still always be a bad thing for the consumer. I give you water....

[Torquemada 1420]

Ironically enough, a dreadfully sneering and condescending article. I'm glad those guys and girls at spiked, so in touch with the common people, gave her time out from ranting about trans people and wanking on about cancel culture to grace us with such an important piece.

Doesn't make her observation wrong here.

I've posted a number of times over the years that the problem with (modern) socialism is that it starts off with what it assumes is good intentions and whenever the masses don't like it, it closes the circle towards the right with "we know what's best for you and if you don't like it, we'll remove your civil liberties and enforce it upon you". And the reason the masses increasingly don't like it is because those at the top are equally privileged as their Tory counterparts and so equally divorced from the man on the street.

[GogLais]

It is not a contradiction at all. Your 'private profits and public losses' comment shows you misunderstand my post.

If the Govt has distorted the market in some way such that it prevents a private firm from making a profit, then there is nothing wrong in the Govt compensating the firms for the market distortion. But, as I said above, only for that and not for commercial risk or incompetence. Or they can of course just nationalise and take a larger proportion of the economy into state hands.

Saying a certain type of business should or should not be state owned depends on a whole number of factors. There are core things (eg defence) I see no argument for private provision. Outside that, I see no reason why a state organisation is necessarily better than properly regulated private firms in delivering particular services.

On your but in red, BECAUSE a monopoly can be a properly regulated private firm and it will still always be a bad thing for the consumer. I give you water....

I know there’s the whole issue of sewerage discharges and directors’ bonuses but I think water is dirt cheap. I get all I need and my shit disposed of for a few tens of pennies a day.

[tabascoboy]

So then, cultivating them to be our Fox News?

[Ymx]

The Finns may have Sanna Marin busting some moves but pffft we have this