NPR

Meanwhile at Brexshit-upon-sea

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:26 am Meanwhile at Brexshit-upon-sea

English water companies are just a front for the overseas Govs and investors who rake in the profits and/or subsidise their own countries services. Over 70% of sector is owned by overseas organisations. However the fact that England, its natural resources and its people are being used and abused by overseas powers for profit has a delicious irony about it! Sovrintty aint it?

If ever a sector should never have been privatised it is water and sewage, the public health lessons of the Romans, John Snow and 19th century England seem to have been forgotten very quickly. Isn't England the only country in the world to privatise water and sewage services?Twats! It needs nationalised asap.

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:44 am If ever a sector should never have been privatised it is water and sewage, the public health lessons of the Romans, John Snow and 19th century England seem to have been forgotten very quickly. Isn't England the only country in the world to privatise water and sewage services?Twats! It needs nationalised asap.

If the Tories could have privatised air, they would have done so by now.

Matthew Paris in today's Times

I likened any decision to follow Johnson with Truss to the doner kebab which, after a night on the tiles, momentarily seems like a good idea - until you open the bread pouch....

Liz Truss is a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain....

I'll wager that at the outset most readers thought Liz Truss a bit weird, curiously hollow and potentially dangerous. This summer a short period will see such rushes to judgment revised. Then government will descend into a huge effort to contain and defang an unstable prime minister; and we shall revert to our first impressions. Save yourself the detour and stick with them. She's crackers. It isn't going to work.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:44 pm Matthew Paris in today's Times

I likened any decision to follow Johnson with Truss to the doner kebab which, after a night on the tiles, momentarily seems like a good idea - until you open the bread pouch....

Liz Truss is a planet-sized mass of overconfidence and ambition teetering upon a pinhead of a political brain....

I'll wager that at the outset most readers thought Liz Truss a bit weird, curiously hollow and potentially dangerous. This summer a short period will see such rushes to judgment revised. Then government will descend into a huge effort to contain and defang an unstable prime minister; and we shall revert to our first impressions. Save yourself the detour and stick with them. She's crackers. It isn't going to work.

So reading between the lines, not that keen then?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:26 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:25 pm Ironically enough, a dreadfully sneering and condescending article. I'm glad those guys and girls at spiked, so in touch with the common people, gave her time out from ranting about trans people and wanking on about cancel culture to grace us with such an important piece.

Doesn't make her observation wrong here.

I've posted a number of times over the years that the problem with (modern) socialism is that it starts off with what it assumes is good intentions and whenever the masses don't like it, it closes the circle towards the right with "we know what's best for you and if you don't like it, we'll remove your civil liberties and enforce it upon you". And the reason the masses increasingly don't like it is because those at the top are equally privileged as their Tory counterparts and so equally divorced from the man on the street.

I would argue that the problem is even worse in the Green/Climate Change movement. There is nothing more white, upper middle class and bourgeois social-justice warrior than a climate change rally (with the possible exception of Glastonbury. The likes of XR, just stop oil and extinction rebellion are just a bourgeois social-justice warrior temper tantrum about the fact that the working class don't know what's best for them.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:10 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:26 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:25 pm Ironically enough, a dreadfully sneering and condescending article. I'm glad those guys and girls at spiked, so in touch with the common people, gave her time out from ranting about trans people and wanking on about cancel culture to grace us with such an important piece.

Doesn't make her observation wrong here.

I've posted a number of times over the years that the problem with (modern) socialism is that it starts off with what it assumes is good intentions and whenever the masses don't like it, it closes the circle towards the right with "we know what's best for you and if you don't like it, we'll remove your civil liberties and enforce it upon you". And the reason the masses increasingly don't like it is because those at the top are equally privileged as their Tory counterparts and so equally divorced from the man on the street.

I would argue that the problem is even worse in the Green/Climate Change movement. There is nothing more white, upper middle class and bourgeois social-justice warrior than a climate change rally (with the possible exception of Glastonbury. The likes of XR, just stop oil and extinction rebellion are just a bourgeois social-justice warrior temper tantrum about the fact that the working class don't know what's best for them.

Is that from personal interactions or from reading the right wing press? If i was an oil and gas companies pr i would hire people to pretend to be XR and be nuts. Everytime I read stuff like this it is basically saying don't give a shit about anything and just let the super rich/elite do what the fuck they want and co-opt the "working class".

petej wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:33 pm

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:10 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:26 am

Doesn't make her observation wrong here.

I've posted a number of times over the years that the problem with (modern) socialism is that it starts off with what it assumes is good intentions and whenever the masses don't like it, it closes the circle towards the right with "we know what's best for you and if you don't like it, we'll remove your civil liberties and enforce it upon you". And the reason the masses increasingly don't like it is because those at the top are equally privileged as their Tory counterparts and so equally divorced from the man on the street.

I would argue that the problem is even worse in the Green/Climate Change movement. There is nothing more white, upper middle class and bourgeois social-justice warrior than a climate change rally (with the possible exception of Glastonbury. The likes of XR, just stop oil and extinction rebellion are just a bourgeois social-justice warrior temper tantrum about the fact that the working class don't know what's best for them.

Is that from personal interactions or from reading the right wing press? If i was an oil and gas companies pr i would hire people to pretend to be XR and be nuts. Everytime I read stuff like this it is basically saying don't give a shit about anything and just let the super rich/elite do what the fuck they want.

From my own eyes from their actions at sporting events and on the roads etc,. They are so so so harmful to the Green Movement that I do sometimes wonder if they are hired double agents by the Oil and Gas Companies, the likes of Emma Thompson flying in to lecture us makes me laugh too. The lack of self awareness is astonishing.

Yeah, the right wing middle and upper class never tries to tell the poor what’s good for them right enough.

That attitude isn’t left or right wing, it’s class. People like to pretend it’s just the other side that does it, and unconsciously justify to them selves.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:10 pm
I would argue that the problem is even worse in the Green/Climate Change movement. There is nothing more white, upper middle class and bourgeois social-justice warrior than a climate change rally (with the possible exception of Glastonbury. The likes of XR, just stop oil and extinction rebellion are just a bourgeois social-justice warrior temper tantrum about the fact that the working class don't know what's best for them.

You may be right that it is worse. Regardless, the fact that it exists at all is only serving to damage the cause and it's not a cause that can be afforded to be ignored.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:06 pm Yeah, the right wing middle and upper class never tries to tell the poor what’s good for them right enough.

That attitude isn’t left or right wing, it’s class. People like to pretend it’s just the other side that does it, and unconsciously justify to them selves.

If that's aimed at me, you need to read my post again. The bit where I say it "closes the circle to the right" i.e. in the end, both parties end up as dictating to the masses. But it's always a worse look for the Left because everyone expects the Right to be self serving.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:18 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:01 pm It is not a contradiction at all. Your 'private profits and public losses' comment shows you misunderstand my post.

If the Govt has distorted the market in some way such that it prevents a private firm from making a profit, then there is nothing wrong in the Govt compensating the firms for the market distortion. But, as I said above, only for that and not for commercial risk or incompetence. Or they can of course just nationalise and take a larger proportion of the economy into state hands.

Saying a certain type of business should or should not be state owned depends on a whole number of factors. There are core things (eg defence) I see no argument for private provision. Outside that, I see no reason why a state organisation is necessarily better than properly regulated private firms in delivering particular services.

Govts distort markets pretty much 100% of the time:
- regulation (which you mention but assumes the pie "properly")
- tariffs
are 2 examples. Name me a market NOT affected by either of these?

On your but in red, BECAUSE a monopoly can be a properly regulated private firm and it will still always be a bad thing for the consumer. I give you water....

To go back to my original point, you made a generalisation about privatised companies receiving subsidies, I countered by saying subsidies were not always all bad if the Govt has distorted the market to the extent that these were required to allow companies to provide the required service and not operate at a loss.

I further pointed out that subsidies should be for this purpose and not to reward bad management.

Whilst you are correct that there is regulation that distorts most markets, I thought I had made it clear that I was talking about situations where that distortion prevented profit, or even break even. Of course almost all markets are affected in some degree by regulation. Tesco has to conform to food standards in the same way every other supermarket does. To protect health, these regulations set a floor beneath which no firm can go, so that extent they are distortive to the grocery market. But that market needs no subsidy as the market is still essentially free and an efficient operator can make a profit.

Contrary to what you appear to be saying, I believe water is a perfect example of a poorly regulated business. Water is a monopolistic market in the UK. Failure of regulation has allowed privatised water firms to behave in ways that allow them to sacrifice the public good in pursuit of short term profits, which are passed on to shareholders and senior employees. That problem can be solved by nationalisation, or by better regulation that takes into account the monopoly situation they are in, and ensures public good comes first.

According to the National Audit Office, compared to the OECD the UK manages at the same time to have some of the lowest levels of Govt regulations coupled with the highest levels of complexity of regulation. Which is pretty much a recipe for disaster.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:10 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:06 pm Yeah, the right wing middle and upper class never tries to tell the poor what’s good for them right enough.

That attitude isn’t left or right wing, it’s class. People like to pretend it’s just the other side that does it, and unconsciously justify to them selves.

If that's aimed at me, you need to read my post again. The bit where I say it "closes the circle to the right" i.e. in the end, both parties end up as dictating to the masses. But it's always a worse look for the Left because everyone expects the Right to be self serving.

Agree with this, everyone knows that the Tories are a bunch of Toffs it is priced in.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:10 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:06 pm Yeah, the right wing middle and upper class never tries to tell the poor what’s good for them right enough.

That attitude isn’t left or right wing, it’s class. People like to pretend it’s just the other side that does it, and unconsciously justify to them selves.

If that's aimed at me, you need to read my post again. The bit where I say it "closes the circle to the right" i.e. in the end, both parties end up as dictating to the masses. But it's always a worse look for the Left because everyone expects the Right to be self serving.

I’m making the point that it’s to do with class not politics. It happens in the centre ground as well.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:35 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:17 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:14 pm

It's more that perhaps our mortgage repayments could have been lower, or we could have got a better property.

Thems the rubs. You can't really time the house market unless you are prepared to wait for a long time.

Ain't that the truth !

You could also add; "& are very lucky"

I waited a long time, because I saw Ireland had an unsustainable bubble, but I still had to wait for years, & then I got lucky, when I got offered redundancy, & my payoff & savings made it possible to buy without having a mortgage. Which was just as well, because the Banks weren't going to offer me a Mortgage when I was only a wet week in my new job.

Lucky you. Did same here but then redundancy to one of our incomes torpedoed that plan.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:05 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:35 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:17 pm
Thems the rubs. You can't really time the house market unless you are prepared to wait for a long time.

Ain't that the truth !

You could also add; "& are very lucky"

I waited a long time, because I saw Ireland had an unsustainable bubble, but I still had to wait for years, & then I got lucky, when I got offered redundancy, & my payoff & savings made it possible to buy without having a mortgage. Which was just as well, because the Banks weren't going to offer me a Mortgage when I was only a wet week in my new job.

Lucky you. Did same here but then redundancy to one of our incomes torpedoed that plan.

One of my workmates; who also got offered redundancy, ended up in a complete shitshow. He & his partner were in the process of buying a new home, because they had two kids, & a third on the way; they were both accidental landlords*, & she was about to go on maternity leave.

They'd a mortgage on strength of them both working, & obviously him taking redundancy would put the kibosh on that, & until he was in secure employment again. Complete & utter shitshow.

* He used to bitch about the aggravation of being a landlord, but wouldn't consider selling either house, just to reduce their exposure to exactly this kind of thing.

Presume they would have been in negative equity if they did that?

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:48 pm Presume they would have been in negative equity if they did that?

Nope, hence my not being as sympathetic as I might have otherwise been. They could have sold the two rentals, & cleared a smallish profit ~10-15k, & considerably reduced their stress, & exposure.

"Boffins".

What an amazing idea, cos currently, right, the GPs have nothing on their plate and have tons of appointments available.... and they all study finances on the side...

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:10 pm What an amazing idea, cos currently, right, the GPs have nothing on their plate and have tons of appointments available.... and they all study finances on the side...

I guess the plan is when people are so cold they become ill the GP is authorised to give them a loan? I presume you don't get to book a GP just because you've run out of money.

Not that you can book a GP at the minute anyway.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:15 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:10 pm What an amazing idea, cos currently, right, the GPs have nothing on their plate and have tons of appointments available.... and they all study finances on the side...

I guess the plan is when people are so cold they become ill the GP is authorised to give them a loan? I presume you don't get to book a GP just because you've run out of money.

Not that you can book a GP at the minute anyway.

I mean thinking about it sensibly, it's a perfect idea, since that way nothing will actually happen, and the poor can get fucked, just like usual.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:15 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:10 pm What an amazing idea, cos currently, right, the GPs have nothing on their plate and have tons of appointments available.... and they all study finances on the side...

I guess the plan is when people are so cold they become ill the GP is authorised to give them a loan? I presume you don't get to book a GP just because you've run out of money.

Not that you can book a GP at the minute anyway.

I mean thinking about it sensibly, it's a perfect idea, since that way nothing will actually happen, and the poor can get fucked, just like usual.

We're probably about two weeks away from workhouses being suggested.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:15 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:10 pm What an amazing idea, cos currently, right, the GPs have nothing on their plate and have tons of appointments available.... and they all study finances on the side...

I guess the plan is when people are so cold they become ill the GP is authorised to give them a loan? I presume you don't get to book a GP just because you've run out of money.

Not that you can book a GP at the minute anyway.

It's pure genius !

The GPs can just prescribe HRT for everyone; & the hot flushes will mean they don't feel the need to turn on the heating so often.

Or perhaps the plan is to activate a few hundred more Shipmans; so the Tories can save on their treatment, & just render their patients down for Soylent Green, for the food banks ?

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:04 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:48 pm Presume they would have been in negative equity if they did that?

Nope, hence my not being as sympathetic as I might have otherwise been. They could have sold the two rentals, & cleared a smallish profit ~10-15k, & considerably reduced their stress, & exposure.

Oh okay. Fück them and the horse they rode in on so.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 4:11 pm According to the National Audit Office, compared to the OECD the UK manages at the same time to have some of the lowest levels of Govt regulations coupled with the highest levels of complexity of regulation. Which is pretty much a recipe for disaster.

Oh yes. And the UK left the EC to escape the red tape imposed by Eurocrats

It was interesting to see the Govester trash Dizzy Lizzys financial fantasies today. I suppose it isn't surprising, because people have been commenting for the last couple of years, that this isn't the time to be PM.

It feels increasingly like the brighter ones in the Tory Party, are positioning themselves to be in the next Leadership race, because (a) this one is done, & (b) the life expectancy of Liz's is about the same as one of those Goldfish you win at the Fair; & after that, even if Labour win, they'll be under enormous pressure from inside, & out, & I wouldn't be shocked if they only lasted 2-3 years.

In summary; shit time to be PM for the next 3-4 years, & even the Bumblecunt will be fancying his chances of being the next Tory Leader

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:46 pm It was interesting to see the Govester trash Dizzy Lizzys financial fantasies today. I suppose it isn't surprising, because people have been commenting for the last couple of years, that this isn't the time to be PM.

It feels increasingly like the brighter ones in the Tory Party, are positioning themselves to be in the next Leadership race, because (a) this one is done, & (b) the life expectancy of Liz's is about the same as one of those Goldfish you win at the Fair; & after that, even if Labour win, they'll be under enormous pressure from inside, & out, & I wouldn't be shocked if they only lasted 2-3 years.

In summary; shit time to be PM for the next 3-4 years, & even the Bumblecunt will be fancying his chances of being the next Tory Leader

The GP plan is madness. They will be flooded with appointments as 30 million people all try to see their GP in a single week.

I think Kemi is a shoe-in

Another lurch to the right for the Tories if she gets in. At this rate they'll go so far right they'll go all the way round to being socialists.

This is bound to work How many GP's are we short of particularly in poor urban areas?

GPs could write prescriptions for money off energy bills for the most vulnerable under a plan drawn up by the Treasury, as Liz Truss’s team signalled more help with costs now forecast to top £6,000 next year.
The unusual proposal would mean people could consult their doctor for an assessment on whether they are struggling enough to require help with their bills.

This isn’t a genuine idea, it’s a flood the zone with shit tactic.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:47 am This isn’t a genuine idea, it’s a flood the zone with shit tactic.

Agreed - just bollox! I can imagine the GPs and the RCGP being really pleased that they are now responsible for financial assessments of patients as well as their medical needs. All they will need is a quick 2 day training programme to become a financial advisor and then off they go. Just utter hogwash.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:04 pm My order of preference for PM

1. Patel
2. Badenoch
3. Sunak
4. Zahawi

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:08 pm I think Kemi is a shoe-in

Once the Conservatives work out how badly they've fucked up (still many years away), the PM ambitions of all these will be over as they'll all be seen as too right wing and/or corrupt to be electable. Most of them aren't even realistic now ffs, under what will probably turn out to be the most right wing UK government in any of our lifetimes.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:08 pm The Tory far right's refusal to get behind one candidate, means it's now likely that Sunak will have enough support to start boosting whichever candidate he would rather face. The far right are even getting behind the candidate opinion polls of the public thought came last/second last in both debates (Badenoch), having already got rid of the candidate the same polls showed came first/second (Tugendhat). The swivel eyed loons from UKIP/Brexit Party/Britain First that have infiltrated them then help vote for the most right wing and least electable candidate whoever that is.

There's a strong chance that whoever becomes PM this all gets repeated next year. Very obvious if Sunak becomes PM, there's a large Tory constituency that will refuse to accept it and immediately start trying to replace him. Also very obvious if it's Mordaunt/Truss/Badenoch, they will be forced to compromise by reality (NI protocol etc), the far right will start ranting about their favourite thing, "betrayal", then demand the removal of the candidate they themselves supported. Johnson could even stand again.

They're a huge fucking mess and still poll at 31%.

The answer to this post of mine of who replaces Truss next year sometime after she's knifed, is far more likely to be Johnson than anyone else. Most Tory members back Johnson above every other potential candidate.

Which is why the Daily Mail is going all in over multiple pages attacking Parliament/the privileges committee. It's also why there's been some talk of moving him to a safer seat if there's a general election. Because Johnson's chances drastically reduce if he's not an MP.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:08 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:46 pm It was interesting to see the Govester trash Dizzy Lizzys financial fantasies today. I suppose it isn't surprising, because people have been commenting for the last couple of years, that this isn't the time to be PM.

It feels increasingly like the brighter ones in the Tory Party, are positioning themselves to be in the next Leadership race, because (a) this one is done, & (b) the life expectancy of Liz's is about the same as one of those Goldfish you win at the Fair; & after that, even if Labour win, they'll be under enormous pressure from inside, & out, & I wouldn't be shocked if they only lasted 2-3 years.

In summary; shit time to be PM for the next 3-4 years, & even the Bumblecunt will be fancying his chances of being the next Tory Leader

The GP plan is madness. They will be flooded with appointments as 30 million people all try to see their GP in a single week.

I think Kemi is a shoe-in

As leader of the opposition maybe. But people who can't afford their bills aren't going to be interested in the culture wars no matter how much the Times and Mail want to play them. And Kemi went big on the culture wars.

The big problem for any Tory leader really is this winter and into next summer everyone is going to be materially poorer with a fair amount of poverty, a fair amount of negative equity and a complete feeling of malaise. Doesn't matter who is in charge for that they're done.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:15 pm

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:08 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:46 pm It was interesting to see the Govester trash Dizzy Lizzys financial fantasies today. I suppose it isn't surprising, because people have been commenting for the last couple of years, that this isn't the time to be PM.

It feels increasingly like the brighter ones in the Tory Party, are positioning themselves to be in the next Leadership race, because (a) this one is done, & (b) the life expectancy of Liz's is about the same as one of those Goldfish you win at the Fair; & after that, even if Labour win, they'll be under enormous pressure from inside, & out, & I wouldn't be shocked if they only lasted 2-3 years.

In summary; shit time to be PM for the next 3-4 years, & even the Bumblecunt will be fancying his chances of being the next Tory Leader

The GP plan is madness. They will be flooded with appointments as 30 million people all try to see their GP in a single week.

I think Kemi is a shoe-in

As leader of the opposition maybe. But people who can't afford their bills aren't going to be interested in the culture wars no matter how much the Times and Mail want to play them. And Kemi went big on the culture wars.

The big problem for any Tory leader really is this winter and into next summer everyone is going to be materially poorer with a fair amount of poverty, a fair amount of negative equity and a complete feeling of malaise. Doesn't matter who is in charge for that they're done.

The Tories are utterly and completely fucked this winter. Shit being pumped into the rivers and on the beaches, millions unable to heat and/or eat, thousands of evictions, strikes all over the place, realities of Brexit hitting home, rampant inflation, likely power outages, shortages of goods on the shelves, NHS collapsing, SMEs folding under rising costs, droughts, another covid peak in winter, etc. They have completely lost control and no amount of migrant, foreigners, EU and union bashing or anti woke rhetoric is going to work this time around. Even with the help of the Daily Heil, Torygraph and Naziexpress they will lose the battle. The billionaire non-dom owners of these shitrags will turn on them very quickly once the writing is on the wall. I suspect we will see mass protests in the streets and some real anti-Gov movements, such as the Poll Tax demos, as the cold weather hits and additional fuel bills metaphorically drop through letterboxes. Truss has no idea, she is an empty vessel put into place by the ERG, and will not be able to cope personally with the pressures and she and her Cabinet will disintegrate. Many of the traditional tory voters - the farmers, the pensioners, the middle classes will see the light as the reality of the world hits them hard and they can no longer look the other way as the poor and the elderly suffer. How a wee elderly pensioner trying to survive on a standard pension of £185 a week will last the winter is beyond me. It is going to be awful.

The question is what will happen next? Will the tories dig in even deeper and move quickly to implementing a quasi-nazi state they have been signposting recently they want to do and ban strikes, bring in the military, impose wage controls, blame the civil service, target 'dissenting' individuals and media etc and let people die and the NHS collapse? Or will we end up with a failed Gov, the Tories disintegrating and a General Election which they will inevitably lose? Whatever happens we need the sensible, serious adults back in charge and some serious brain power, some radical ideas and real leadership to get us out of this Tory created shithole. A major shift away from the populist right wing policies is required. Someone will step forward and grab the problem, my worry it is still possible to see some (mostly English) folk think a lunatic such as a Trump/Blonde Bumblecunt will be their saviour. Fingers, and toes, crossed.

A winter crisis but in summer.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:17 pm

A winter crisis but in summer.

i.e. not a crisis at all, but the new normal, with a gradual slide downwards, as NHS workers get fed up, & emigrate

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:15 pm

ia801310 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:08 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:46 pm It was interesting to see the Govester trash Dizzy Lizzys financial fantasies today. I suppose it isn't surprising, because people have been commenting for the last couple of years, that this isn't the time to be PM.

It feels increasingly like the brighter ones in the Tory Party, are positioning themselves to be in the next Leadership race, because (a) this one is done, & (b) the life expectancy of Liz's is about the same as one of those Goldfish you win at the Fair; & after that, even if Labour win, they'll be under enormous pressure from inside, & out, & I wouldn't be shocked if they only lasted 2-3 years.

In summary; shit time to be PM for the next 3-4 years, & even the Bumblecunt will be fancying his chances of being the next Tory Leader

The GP plan is madness. They will be flooded with appointments as 30 million people all try to see their GP in a single week.

I think Kemi is a shoe-in

As leader of the opposition maybe. But people who can't afford their bills aren't going to be interested in the culture wars no matter how much the Times and Mail want to play them. And Kemi went big on the culture wars.

The big problem for any Tory leader really is this winter and into next summer everyone is going to be materially poorer with a fair amount of poverty, a fair amount of negative equity and a complete feeling of malaise. Doesn't matter who is in charge for that they're done.

She’s high on the candidate list for the sacrificial party leader while the Tories spend a term being unelectable.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:39 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:17 pm

A winter crisis but in summer.

i.e. not a crisis at all, but the new normal, with a gradual slide downwards, as NHS workers get fed up, & emigrate

NHS hitting the obvious and predictable wall with its workforce.

- NHS pay has fallen dramatically in recent years and is well below what it was in real and relative terms 12 years ago once inflation is taken into account.
- Lots of NHS workers stayed on or returned beyond retirement to help out during covid. They are now leaving.
- The baby boom peak of staff is still working its way through the workforce and the nursing and midwifery workforces are worst hit with higher age profiles and retiral rates.
- Brexit put barriers in place for new EU recruitment and existing EU staff faced with increased costs of staying and living in this country plus the 'we don't want you' messaging.
- The pension changes are hitting hard - the NHS implemented the current scheme illegally according to the courts (age discrimination) and have had to do a fix which meant many could take opportunity to retire earlier than planned and worktheir final years via banks and agencies instead of being tied into a 67 retiral age. Also the pension taxation rules restricting both annual and lifetime pension pot accruals, particularly the lifetime allowance being fixed for 5 years, is hitting older higher paid staff, mostly consultants, who are all being advised to reduce working hours to avoid crippling HMRC bills. I have mates who got £25k HMRC bills this year. Any inflation matching pay increase for this cohort will mean huge HMRC bills as pension is based on ave salary and years service.
- Many staff are just knackered and have left due to the sheer toil and unremitting toll of working through covid, many have serious mental health issues as a result.
- NHS staff were disproportionately hit by covid and many died, many of their colleagues have watched this with their own inadequate PPE and support and thought why should they expose themselves to this?
- The UK Gov is not training enough doctors, dentists, nurses and midwives to sustain the current workforce let alone get us to the levels of staffing seen elsewhere in the UK. Why - to save money, don't believe the lack of training capacity nonsense, it could be done.
- Many junior or newly qualified staff leave asap to work abroad to get better pay or working conditions.

I could go on. I know of some hospitals with 25% nursing vacancy rates with no hope of recruitment to fill all the gaps - what does this mean - beds/wards closed and theatres and surgeons sitting idle as there are no theatre staff. All this was entirely predicable before and during the pandemic. It is easy to model and indeed modelling has been done. Why hasn't something been done - cost and, particularly in England, a political determination to run down the NHSand nudge patients into the private sector. However they forget the private sector does no training of doctors, dentists, nurses and midwives so where the feck the private sector is going to get its workforce when he NHS collapses god only knows! It is a shitshow of enormous proportions!