NPR

Saint wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:15 pm

Jockaline wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:05 pm Not sure if it was Bolton or not, but it sounded for a while they were going to give the vaccine to anyone in hot spot regardless of age. After initially thinking that didn't seem fair, but now think it's an excellent idea. We're now in the age bands where the health risks are not really age dependent.

In Scotland some areas hospitality have not been able to open up, if they were prioritised then the unlocking would be expedited, which would be good for the general economy. It would also mitigate it spreading further afield.

Would still have some age vaccinations, in addition to target areas with high cases, but I might swap age direction around as the younger adults are probably the biggest spreaders, they have been probably some of the harder hit, and likely the biggest consumers of the business still locked down.

I wrote a long answer to this but junked it. Frankly, we're all in this together, and if "the young" are ignoring guidance and therefore exposing themselves to risk I'm not really sure why the rest of the population should have to delay their return to make it easier for everyone else. You're effectively proposing to reward anti-social behaviour.

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:23 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:48 pm

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Jockaline wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:18 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:54 pm

Jockaline wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:49 pm I can't say I'm too keen to have an app with all my medical records on it. Am I being overly paranoid?

Yes. The app takes a lot of authentication to access your records - frankly, it would be easier for a walkup to fake your identity than to impersonate you remotely.

If you do any sort of online banking then you need to fix their authentication before worrying about your health records - by comparison they're outrageously lax

Cheers, I'm more worried about my phone falling into the wrong hands physically or remotely and flogging my data. I guess there isn't that much demand for health record data though.

I am not that trusting of digital channels, I don't do any mobile banking, or do any payments using my phone. I use my phone to call, text, checkout bus times, browse etc. I work for a bank and always use my work's network for any PC banking too.

Jockaline wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:33 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:23 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Don't have an issue with the test and trace app, it's the NHS app that I'm a bit more wary of because I don't know a lot about it. Sure it will be fine.

Jockaline wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:25 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:15 pm

Jockaline wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:05 pm Not sure if it was Bolton or not, but it sounded for a while they were going to give the vaccine to anyone in hot spot regardless of age. After initially thinking that didn't seem fair, but now think it's an excellent idea. We're now in the age bands where the health risks are not really age dependent.

In Scotland some areas hospitality have not been able to open up, if they were prioritised then the unlocking would be expedited, which would be good for the general economy. It would also mitigate it spreading further afield.

Would still have some age vaccinations, in addition to target areas with high cases, but I might swap age direction around as the younger adults are probably the biggest spreaders, they have been probably some of the harder hit, and likely the biggest consumers of the business still locked down.

I wrote a long answer to this but junked it. Frankly, we're all in this together, and if "the young" are ignoring guidance and therefore exposing themselves to risk I'm not really sure why the rest of the population should have to delay their return to make it easier for everyone else. You're effectively proposing to reward anti-social behaviour.

Not really, how is it fair that teenagers are bottom of the queue if 30 years olds have no material greater risk. But iT is not really about being fair, there's nothing fair about this virus, more what the greatest benefit to the wider community and economy. The age approach has worked really well so far, but that doesn't mean it's the best way forward now. There are remote areas in Scotland, which have barely been impacted with far higher vaccinations compared to the biggest cities.

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:48 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:40 pm

How does it work then - I was under the impression (clearly erroneously) that is is all about proximity to other mobile devices...

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:27 am 41 year old friend had 1st jab 6 days ago, today he tests positive for Covid. Probably caught it from his kid who's whole class was sent home.

Colleague's 65 year old Mum had her second Pfiser on Sunday. She also had Covid last October and ended up in hospital on oxygen for 3 days. Says she probably feels worse after this jab.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:30 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:27 am 41 year old friend had 1st jab 6 days ago, today he tests positive for Covid. Probably caught it from his kid who's whole class was sent home.

Colleague's 65 year old Mum had her second Pfiser on Sunday. She also had Covid last October and ended up in hospital on oxygen for 3 days. Says she probably feels worse after this jab.

Worse than having to be admitted to hospital for 3 days !! Seems a bit of a stretch.........................

Ministers have been accused of sowing confusion over what foreign travel is permitted for people in England after sending out mixed messages relating to its traffic light system.

On Wednesday, the education minister Gillian Keegan urged people to be “sensible” and not travel to “amber list” countries for holidays, but her comments followed differing advice the day before.

Just 24 hours earlier, the environment secretary, George Eustice, stated on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that people could travel to amber list countries to see family and friends. However, shortly afterwards the prime minister clarified that people should only go to amber list countries for “some pressing family or urgent business reason”.

In the House of Lords on Tuesday night, the health minister Lord Bethell said people should not travel at all, even to green list countries. He said: “We do ask people, particularly as we go into the summer, travelling is not for this year, please stay in this country.”

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 9:04 am .........and they still can't get the messaging right after 15 months!!!

Ministers have been accused of sowing confusion over what foreign travel is permitted for people in England after sending out mixed messages relating to its traffic light system.

On Wednesday, the education minister Gillian Keegan urged people to be “sensible” and not travel to “amber list” countries for holidays, but her comments followed differing advice the day before.

Just 24 hours earlier, the environment secretary, George Eustice, stated on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that people could travel to amber list countries to see family and friends. However, shortly afterwards the prime minister clarified that people should only go to amber list countries for “some pressing family or urgent business reason”.

In the House of Lords on Tuesday night, the health minister Lord Bethell said people should not travel at all, even to green list countries. He said: “We do ask people, particularly as we go into the summer, travelling is not for this year, please stay in this country.”

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

Slick wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:06 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

The travel industry are being pretty awful in all this. Of course I realise they have businesses to run etc but they are actively encouraging people to non green countries knowing that few will isolate on return. They don't seem to realise what another lockdown will entail for them.

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

Then don't book a holiday in the middle of a pandemic?

People are like American banks now. Privatized gains, socialised losses. Pick one or the other.

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:19 pm

Lemoentjie wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:47 am Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

Then don't book a holiday in the middle of a pandemic?

People are like American banks now. Privatized gains, socialised losses. Pick one or the other.

I'm not talkng about people who booked last year. I'm talking about people who booked in 2019 originally. Like I said in my post

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:23 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:48 pm

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 11:54 am ]

Failures in England's test-and-trace system are partly responsible for a surge in the Indian variant in one of the worst affected parts of the country, a report seen by the BBC says.
For three weeks in April and May, eight local authorities in England did not have access to the full data on positive tests in their area.
The number of missing cases was highest in Blackburn with Darwen, Lancashire.
A recent surge in infections there has been linked to the Indian variant.
The government said a "small number" of people in contact with those who tested positive for coronavirus had "experienced a temporary delay in getting a message from NHS Test and Trace".
The other areas affected by what is thought to have been a technical glitch were Blackpool, York, Bath and North East Somerset, Bristol, North Somerset, Southend-on-Sea and Thurrock.

Openside wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:20 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:23 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:52 pm

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:29 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:20 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:23 pm

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

But you still had no experience of the Somme. It's your 'in my experience' BS that people are calling out - it's not your experience it's hearsay.

laurent wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:42 pm I will be in tomorrow's statistics, eagerly waiting for 5G

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:41 pm Every adult should be offered a vaccine by the end of June.

Currently the vaccine tracker is showing the UK on target to reach this by July 10 so a modest but substained increase in first doses is required.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:49 pm
Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:15 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:49 pm
Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

I’m the same as you. UK is in a great place at last.

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:22 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:15 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:49 pm
Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

I’m the same as you. UK is in a great place at last.

The only issue is the more transmissible the variant the higher the % of the pop required to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and stop community transmission. If this variant is 50% more transmissible than the Kent one then that increases the figure required for herd immunity from the 80-85% previously thought required. Ive not seen the new % requirement and haven't done the calculation myself yet but it does stretch the target a little bit further away. Also as long as we have community transmission of the new variant then the more cases we will get - only 55% of the UK pop have had at least one jab so there are still c30m folk unvaccinated - and the more hospitalisations and long covid type cases we have and with still a lot of unknowns about the long term effect it is probably prudent not to just let the unvaccinated pop be put at unknown health risks? Even though hospitalisations are much lower in younger age groups it could potentially still be a lot of folk, a small % of a very large number is still likely to be a very large number! The last thing we want is for the NHS, which is now focusing upon the huge backlog of non covid cases to have to deal with lots of admissions of covid cases - the cancers, the cardiac cases etc need to be the priority. Better to be prudent and keep social distancing and masks etc until we reach higher levels of vaccination and cut community transmission to very low levels, it is only a matter a weeks away. Lets just be sensible, we are in a good place it would be a shame to snatch defeat ...

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:48 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:40 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 9:37 pm

That's not how it works ffs. Even the telegraph reports it better than that little trite soundbite. You used to be better than this

How does it work then - I was under the impression (clearly erroneously) that is is all about proximity to other mobile devices...

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 3:29 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 12:20 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:23 pm

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

But you still had no experience of the Somme. It's your 'in my experience' BS that people are calling out - it's not your experience it's hearsay.