NPR

petej wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:38 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:50 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:08 pm

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:50 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:08 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:55 am Problem here is that the war hasn't created the energy crisis, just emphasised and intensified it. Gas and Oil prices started rising in 2020 and 2021, and although some of that was in turn to do with the pandemic, not all of it was (consider that there was a downturn in demand during the pandemic). We have reached a critical point in energy supply/demand globally. We don't have enough supply and the demand is ever increasing. This was partially concealed by the USA's rush for fracking in the first ten years of this century, which raised supply against increasing demand. Obviously our shallow populist political leaders are going to ignore this, partly through convenience partly through a genuine lack of understanding (or capability to understand). But we are in trouble globally in energy terms and we will never return to the cheap energy of the early part of the 21st century.

Massive renewable expansion is the only answer - and the only way that reasonably cheap energy will be provided.

But we'll need, to a certain extent, to make energy production a critical national resource again, either through massively restrictive legislation or through nationalisation.

I agree about the need for expansion in renewables but part of the supply issue is down to US foreign policy decisions. Iran and Venezuela could be helpful additional sources of gas and oil but... they're not.

Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:03 pmI generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:18 pm The problem with hydrogen is that it's a drag chain on decarbonisation at present. Pretty much all of it is generated by fossil fuel processes, and whilst there is a coming hope for renewable, the "the only emission is water vapour" and the easy to understand analogy with gas - pipe bring fuel, fuel burn, warm good - allows politicians to feel comfortable with it (and the honking donations from oil and gas don't help).

This means they look at what seems to be an easy option, especially when compared with a total shift in how the grid is managed as we have to stop burning stuff.

With energy, it should be

Reduce
Reduce
Reduce
Insulate
Insulate
Insulate
Generate as near as carbon free as can be managed, whether self-generated or via the grid.

The problem is that this requires regulations and strong enforcement, an absolute anathema to the current crop of Britannia Unchained cunts shitting all over the face of the country, allied to the ability to look beyond the current electoral cycle, which is largely beyond any politician.

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:03 pmI generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Maybe only 10% of that would be available, people wouldn't want their vehicles to drop their entire charge back into the grid, and would probably only accept 25% or so, then there's the ones not plugged in etc. However, at the same time, with enough solar, home batteries, wind and tidal, along with hydrostorge, it would only be some fluctuations that need covering

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:23 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:30 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:03 pmI generally lump storage in with renewables.

As pointed out, electric cars have a significant part to play in distributed grid storage. On average cars are not used 95% of the time. We should include domestic storage as part of renewable installs by default.

Those two things together could give each household 200kWh of storage. Across half the households in Britain that would take us to about 2TWh of potential storage. Will that do?

Maybe only 10% of that would be available, people wouldn't want their vehicles to drop their entire charge back into the grid, and would probably only accept 25% or so, then there's the ones not plugged in etc. However, at the same time, with enough solar, home batteries, wind and tidal, along with hydrostorge, it would only be some fluctuations that need covering

More than half of it is home storage tbh. Half the homes in Britain having a battery pack the size of the biggest ones in cars is around a TWh of storage.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:12 pm

petej wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:38 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:50 pm
Massive renewables expansion won't make things cheaper, or more reliable. On its own it will do the opposite. The only renewable without intermittency issues is biomass and that's not a scaleable solution, in the UK at least.

For every GW of wind/solar you need a GW of reliable power on standby. Currently this is gas. The less gas you use, the more expensive it will be to have it on standby.

Nuclear is reliable, energy dense, and doesn't have intermittency issues. Thing is, if you've got nuclear then there's no reason not to run it flat out all the time. Costs the same either way so it's only really appropriate for baseload so once you've spent the money it will reduce the demand for renewables.

Wind has some good potential for demand that can be time shifted - think charging your EV when it's windy at night - home batteries can also benefit from this. You can't use it for anything you need to rely on.

We basically need grid scale storage. This is an unsolved problem and there isn't anything coming in the near term. Until then, wind/solar have to be backed up by something else - at a cost.

Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:14 am If freedom means anything it must mean the right to pollute our own waters (and those adjoining), renege on every treaty we've ever signed and to say it's the fault of all those who opposed the idiotic path in the first place.


I was in Mersea for a few days over last weekend and into this week. The only thing that is there is the sailing and the oyster vendors. Normally I'd be all over the oysters at 70p a pop, but not after this pumping literal shite into the sea.

If my livelihood relied on selling oysters without the chance of poisoning someone, I'd consider taking legal advice as to what recourse I had.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:12 pm

petej wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 2:38 pm
Good post. Storage can also be in the form of hydrogen. Baseloading nuclear and when excess electricity is present use it to charge batteries both electric and heat (short term storage) and generate hydrogen (longer term storage).

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:12 pm

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:12 pm

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig

GogLais wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:26 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig

Do you have link to more info on this? A quick Google didn’t bring up anything and I’m interested in where it might go. They’d better not drown Cwm Pennant.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:43 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 2:26 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm
Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig

Do you have link to more info on this? A quick Google didn’t bring up anything and I’m interested in where it might go. They’d better not drown Cwm Pennant.

It's really close.

https://www.snowdoniapumpedhydro.com/

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:49 am Seems Truss is plowing ahead but cutting taxes rather than capping energy prices or windfall taxes on producers.

In many ways, I think you do have to have energy prices that encourage middle and top earners to reduce demand quite a bit as this crisis isn't ending for a few years. However, it's just unrealistic to assume people are going to rush to spend because VAT is 5% lower and their energy bills are 200% higher. I can't believe any economist is saying that it will boost the economy. It just won't.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:05 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:49 am Seems Truss is plowing ahead but cutting taxes rather than capping energy prices or windfall taxes on producers.

In many ways, I think you do have to have energy prices that encourage middle and top earners to reduce demand quite a bit as this crisis isn't ending for a few years. However, it's just unrealistic to assume people are going to rush to spend because VAT is 5% lower and their energy bills are 200% higher. I can't believe any economist is saying that it will boost the economy. It just won't.

She will u turn rather than have excess deaths on her hands this winter. Not a good optic when an election is only 2 years away.

Liz Truss has pulled out of an interview with UK political journalist Nick Robinson which was due to air tomorrow.

The Tory leadership frontrunner's team said she could "no longer spare the time" to take part in the one-to-one interview, which was scheduled for 7pm on 30 August on BBC One, BBC News tweeted this evening.

"We regret that it has not been possible to do an in depth interview with both candidates despite having reached agreement to do so," the press team said in a second tweet.

Ms Truss's rival in the party election, Rishi Sunak, sat down with Mr Robinson earlier this month.

Mr Robinson tweeted: "Was pleased to secure an in-depth interview with @trussliz on BBC1. I am disappointed & frustrated it's been cancelled".

Ms Truss had already declined to be interviewed by broadcaster Andrew Neil on Channel 4, while Mr Sunak has faced him.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:24 pm What a shock !

Liz Truss has pulled out of an interview with UK political journalist Nick Robinson which was due to air tomorrow.

The Tory leadership frontrunner's team said she could "no longer spare the time" to take part in the one-to-one interview, which was scheduled for 7pm on 30 August on BBC One, BBC News tweeted this evening.

"We regret that it has not been possible to do an in depth interview with both candidates despite having reached agreement to do so," the press team said in a second tweet.

Ms Truss's rival in the party election, Rishi Sunak, sat down with Mr Robinson earlier this month.

Mr Robinson tweeted: "Was pleased to secure an in-depth interview with @trussliz on BBC1. I am disappointed & frustrated it's been cancelled".

Ms Truss had already declined to be interviewed by broadcaster Andrew Neil on Channel 4, while Mr Sunak has faced him.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0829 ... eadership/

She's afraid of even the current neutered iteration of the Beeb.

I can't understand the gushing praise of Lizzy since the start of this campaign; she's never appeared to me, to be anything other than thick as pig shit. I know I'm biased, but I've never seen any evidence of this supposed intellect that lies behind the cosplay Thatcher exterior ?

She has all of the Bumblecunts worst attributes; laziness, vanity, corruption; & none of his elect-ability, or charisma

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:00 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:24 pm What a shock !

Liz Truss has pulled out of an interview with UK political journalist Nick Robinson which was due to air tomorrow.

The Tory leadership frontrunner's team said she could "no longer spare the time" to take part in the one-to-one interview, which was scheduled for 7pm on 30 August on BBC One, BBC News tweeted this evening.

"We regret that it has not been possible to do an in depth interview with both candidates despite having reached agreement to do so," the press team said in a second tweet.

Ms Truss's rival in the party election, Rishi Sunak, sat down with Mr Robinson earlier this month.

Mr Robinson tweeted: "Was pleased to secure an in-depth interview with @trussliz on BBC1. I am disappointed & frustrated it's been cancelled".

Ms Truss had already declined to be interviewed by broadcaster Andrew Neil on Channel 4, while Mr Sunak has faced him.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/0829 ... eadership/

She's afraid of even the current neutered iteration of the Beeb.

I can't understand the gushing praise of Lizzy since the start of this campaign; she's never appeared to me, to be anything other than thick as pig shit. I know I'm biased, but I've never seen any evidence of this supposed intellect that lies behind the cosplay Thatcher exterior ?

She has all of the Bumblecunts worst attributes; laziness, vanity, corruption; & none of his elect-ability, or charisma

I don't think she's scared of the BBC. Just why bother? Johnson never bothered and avoided all interviews and look how he did. With Classic Dom basically running Kuenssburg's twitter account and the right wing press all on side they ran the media without any interviews.

Truss will aim for the same.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:12 pm

Solve two problems at once, & create a few, very large, pumped storage power stations !

You create some reservoirs that are badly needed, & you get significant power storage capacity on your grid.

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:40 am There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:40 am There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:47 am Following on from Ticht's point - more generally the government within the last 18 months

spent billions saving businesses going under, what an absolute waste of money

if they all go under because of energy bills this winter.

I know a guy who runs a small shop who's energy bill has just gone from £30 a month to £350, likely will put him out of business and he's already applying for other jobs.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:51 am

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.

petej wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:53 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:51 am

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm
Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.

The real problem with tidal is no private business will do it even though a lot the issues (environmental) surrounding say a system on the Severn Estuary have been resolved. The payback time will be longer than nuclear plants

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:40 am There's talk of 70% of pubs closing down due to energy bills. That's a 70% loss of revenue for the energy companies from that one sector alone, along with the loss of tax to Inland Revenue. This will knock on through the hospitality industry as discretionary spending is swallowed by the energy companies, which will in turn affect all areas of discretionary spending and the jobs that come with it. That leads to more reliance on Universal Credit and other benefits

To my mind it's economic incompetence of the highest order to not ameliorate the increases in bills, recessions are no joke, this is the rainy day that you pull out all the stops for.

Unfortunately we have the least suitable cohort choosing our next PM, mainly white older men from the South East who are relatively well off.

Not showing up for a BBC interview which isn't exactly going to be Hardtalk isn't just "Why bother? I've nothing to gain" it shows the venal ambition over substance that is at the heart of the rot

The country needs a leader and Truss ain't it, not by a long long way.

yermum wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:01 pm Can't get my daughters medication.

Feels like I am living in a failing country ATM.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:30 pm It's OK folks, it's not the Tories fault...

petej wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:57 pm

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:30 pm It's OK folks, it's not the Tories fault...

The end result of the terrible circle jerk between the right wing press and our government. They are just lashing out due to their own inadequacies and are going to block anyone else from helping with solutions out of spite. We lack serious politicians and real journalists.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:51 am

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 12:39 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:07 am

Yes it did cross my mind that interlinked reservoirs with hydrodams between them could kill two birds with one stone

Pumped hydro isn't a scaleable solution for the UK. You need to plan for around 5 days of no wind which is about 1TWh of energy. Dinorwig, the UK's largest pumped hydro station has a capacity of 9 GWh so you would need over 100 more of those, or 10 at 10x the capacity each. There's another pumped hydro station being planned near Dinorwig with a 700MWh capacity at an estimated cost of £120m (in 2017)

Hooking up everybody's EV car batteries to the grid is likely to be a better option. TFL already do this with their electric buses.

Yeah I'm not suggesting it's a hole in one. Obviously if tidal can be made to work at scale at a decent price we're about the best placed of anyone to exploit that.

My idea was more that over the next few years we are going to have to really sort out our water situation, so whilst we're at it we may as well generate energy off of it as well, even if it is only for the local communities impacted.