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Still think the solution is the same as taking the hit out of the scrum engagement: you have to bind to the opponent in the ruck before pushing.
When they first promoted up they had a massive focus on the breakdown, some of it more than a little illegal but refs often let them off as they were the plucky underdogs, arguably they had little if not nothing outside their breakdown focus. As they've built in stature and tried to add more to their game it's perhaps fair to say their focus has shifted, and there is much of their attack is what it is partly to make it much easier to support, be functional in the set piece, win collisions, have players who can initiate breaks, to date they haven't wanted to move away from a highly structured approach to trusting decision making much more ball in hand and critically in their support play. If they can find the next Gorgodze to replace Ewers they might not even need to change, but finding a talent that good looks about as tricky as allowing much more fluidity on attacksockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:00 pmThey've always been one of the less breakdown oriented sides and without Sam Simmonds or LCD there, they lose a lot of their threat in that area.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:36 pm This game has been all about the breakdown. Sarries have been excellent there whilst Exeter have been inaccurate and, as a result, forced to concede pen after pen. Feels like the Devon side needs a rethink on tactics for next season i.e. they've been found out.
They need tactics that reflect their personnel. Over the course of the last couple of seasons their pack personnel have changed and they can no longer steam roll other teams in the way they'd become accustomed.
The requirement to rebuild hits every side at some point and often comes with a dip in performance. It's remarkable that Exeter have managed to go this long without that being the case.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:16 pm Think there's a strong case for any of the top three being the best in the country and champions, and any of 4-6 could put a run together to win it. Not always 100% on the standard but it really is an entertaining league
Yeah, they were clever in their recruitment and getting in Julian Salvi was a huge moment for them. Waldrom was good over the ball too, and Ewers used to be more of a menace before he just got too slow.Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:36 amWhen they first promoted up they had a massive focus on the breakdown, some of it more than a little illegal but refs often let them off as they were the plucky underdogs, arguably they had little if not nothing outside their breakdown focus. As they've built in stature and tried to add more to their game it's perhaps fair to say their focus has shifted, and there is much of their attack is what it is partly to make it much easier to support, be functional in the set piece, win collisions, have players who can initiate breaks, to date they haven't wanted to move away from a highly structured approach to trusting decision making much more ball in hand and critically in their support play. If they can find the next Gorgodze to replace Ewers they might not even need to change, but finding a talent that good looks about as tricky as allowing much more fluidity on attacksockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:00 pmThey've always been one of the less breakdown oriented sides and without Sam Simmonds or LCD there, they lose a lot of their threat in that area.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 24, 2022 3:36 pm This game has been all about the breakdown. Sarries have been excellent there whilst Exeter have been inaccurate and, as a result, forced to concede pen after pen. Feels like the Devon side needs a rethink on tactics for next season i.e. they've been found out.
They need tactics that reflect their personnel. Over the course of the last couple of seasons their pack personnel have changed and they can no longer steam roll other teams in the way they'd become accustomed.
The requirement to rebuild hits every side at some point and often comes with a dip in performance. It's remarkable that Exeter have managed to go this long without that being the case.
Or Tigers were dim/profligate to let either of those 2 go. Waldrom's footballing skills were pretty amazing for a backrow too.
I think it's been a long time since that truism really was true in either a football or rugby context. You can be a great defensive side - see several French rugby teams over the years - and win fuck all because part of that was an almost pathological distrust of having the ball in your own half. Football ended up being dominated by sides like PSG, Real Madrid, and Barcelona, who scored bucket loads of goals but were ultimately not that impressive defence-wise (ranging from "decent" - Barcelona and the press - to really quite bad for PSG/Madrid at times).Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:05 pm The last round of Premiership league games is on the 4th June with the semi-finals played a week later on the 11th June. Final on the 18th.
At the moment, in the second semi-final, it looks like Saracens will play Harlequins, probably at home although that is still to play for. Semi-finals tend to be much better games than finals. Is there another classic in the making...?
Saracens v Harlequins 2021/22 results;
13.02.22 Premiership
Saracens 19 v Harlequins 10
13.11.21 Premiership Cup
Saracens 28 v Harlequins 21
31.10.21 Premiership
Harlequins 22 v Saracens 29
Average score
Saracens 25.3pts
Harlequins 17.6pts
Gap 7.7pts
Was it Alex Ferguson who said that great attack wins games but great defence wins championships?
Waldrom was quality and Tigers had a really big clearout & signed a bunch of no-hopers that hurt them a few years down the line, but Salvi was replaced by Brendon O'Connor who at least started brightly and they also had the fantastic and sorely under-utilised Will Evans available. That's a lot of breakdown nous.Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:15 pmOr Tigers were dim/profligate to let either of those 2 go. Waldrom's footballing skills were pretty amazing for a backrow too.
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:21 pmI think it's been a long time since that truism really was true in either a football or rugby context. You can be a great defensive side - see several French rugby teams over the years - and win fuck all because part of that was an almost pathological distrust of having the ball in your own half. Football ended up being dominated by sides like PSG, Real Madrid, and Barcelona, who scored bucket loads of goals but were ultimately not that impressive defence-wise (ranging from "decent" - Barcelona and the press - to really quite bad for PSG/Madrid at times).Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:05 pm The last round of Premiership league games is on the 4th June with the semi-finals played a week later on the 11th June. Final on the 18th.
At the moment, in the second semi-final, it looks like Saracens will play Harlequins, probably at home although that is still to play for. Semi-finals tend to be much better games than finals. Is there another classic in the making...?
Saracens v Harlequins 2021/22 results;
13.02.22 Premiership
Saracens 19 v Harlequins 10
13.11.21 Premiership Cup
Saracens 28 v Harlequins 21
31.10.21 Premiership
Harlequins 22 v Saracens 29
Average score
Saracens 25.3pts
Harlequins 17.6pts
Gap 7.7pts
Was it Alex Ferguson who said that great attack wins games but great defence wins championships?
Besides, you could've made the same argument last season. Quins had the 4th worst defensive record in the league. Exeter and Bristol had the best and second best, respectively. It didn't do either team much good on the day. Back then I thought Quins were comfortably the 4th best team in the league and that the three ahead of them were clearly the better sides. There's just more to it than that, though. And the top 4's contrasting fortunes this season suggest I was being unfair to Quins.
It's a bit odd to look at the Premiership cup game, or the Quins home game featuring two sides shorn of most of their top players, but I don't think anyone is shouting that Quins are the better side. What strikes me as odd about your post is that Saracens have scored the same number of tries as Quins this season and have scored a lot more points overall. So it's more that Saracens are the more well rounded team with an attack that is at least as effective as Quins this season and a better defence. Ergo, probably a better team. Still, with contrasting fortunes in terms of callups and injuries this season, it's not a foregone conclusion and I'm more than happy with how Quins have backed up last season's run to the title.
... And both reds overturned. Second red LI have had overturned this season.Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 pm Newcastle LI game finished 14-42 to LI.
Dickson watch highlight was a Double red (Gigena and Graham with the TMO pleading with him saying they shouldn't be reds) for handbags when 10 mins before a head on head tackle leading to an HIA given as a pen only ('low degree of danger').
I would add that Ferguson was talking about a bog standard league. Defence likely does win you those. After all, the two best defences were 1st and 2nd in the league last season. But the knockout stages are a different beast. Just seems strange to a) talk about defences winning championships when comparing to Quins in particular, given Quins won it last year with a poor defence, and b) to post the Saracens stats after I said their attack is at least as effective as Quins' on top of their defence being better...
I'm not surprised, looked soft as shitMargin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:31 am... And both reds overturned. Second red LI have had overturned this season.Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 pm Newcastle LI game finished 14-42 to LI.
Dickson watch highlight was a Double red (Gigena and Graham with the TMO pleading with him saying they shouldn't be reds) for handbags when 10 mins before a head on head tackle leading to an HIA given as a pen only ('low degree of danger').
Yep, super soft. The TMO did everything he could to tell him that at the time.JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:35 amI'm not surprised, looked soft as shitMargin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:31 am... And both reds overturned. Second red LI have had overturned this season.Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:54 pm Newcastle LI game finished 14-42 to LI.
Dickson watch highlight was a Double red (Gigena and Graham with the TMO pleading with him saying they shouldn't be reds) for handbags when 10 mins before a head on head tackle leading to an HIA given as a pen only ('low degree of danger').
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:34 amI would add that Ferguson was talking about a bog standard league. Defence likely does win you those. After all, the two best defences were 1st and 2nd in the league last season. But the knockout stages are a different beast. Just seems strange to a) talk about defences winning championships when comparing to Quins in particular, given Quins won it last year with a poor defence, and b) to post the Saracens stats after I said their attack is at least as effective as Quins' on top of their defence being better...
(Would also add that the entire concept of bonus points skews Ferguson's point even further away from being relevant in rugby...)
I had already said that Saracens had a much better defence and an attack at least as effective as Quins - because the stats already show that. You can see them on the table, it doesn't really need any explaining. Are we just talking about how good Saracens are? Because, cool, they're really good, we agree. Not much mileage to be gained there.Kawazaki wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:04 amJM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:34 amI would add that Ferguson was talking about a bog standard league. Defence likely does win you those. After all, the two best defences were 1st and 2nd in the league last season. But the knockout stages are a different beast. Just seems strange to a) talk about defences winning championships when comparing to Quins in particular, given Quins won it last year with a poor defence, and b) to post the Saracens stats after I said their attack is at least as effective as Quins' on top of their defence being better...
(Would also add that the entire concept of bonus points skews Ferguson's point even further away from being relevant in rugby...)
It's more weird that you think posting up stats that support your POV is weird but there you go. Ironically, you're being too defensive.
That is disappointing. Hopefully Randall and Mitchell stay fit.
Doubt Eddie would parachute him in in a Tier 1 tour, but losing him to the Scots would be criminal. He's a lot of fun to watch and I've not seen anyone come through as impressive at the same age as him at LI.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:03 pm Slightly fortuitous bounce, but that was a very well taken try from Arundell.
Can we cap him in the Summer just to stop the Scots sniffing around?
How about Van Poortvliet ? How far away is he ?sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:31 pm Irish's more senior outfit are absolutely dominating Tigers now.
That is disappointing. Hopefully Randall and Mitchell stay fit.
He's a few years younger than that pair and at times it shows. They also both have a lot more natural flair than him, he's more in the petit-general mode.Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:45 pmHow about Van Poortvliet ? How far away is he ?sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:31 pm Irish's more senior outfit are absolutely dominating Tigers now.
That is disappointing. Hopefully Randall and Mitchell stay fit.
Margin posted the teams further up. There's a fair number of 'who the fuck are they?' players in the Tigers line up.
Irish picked a noticeably stronger team than Quins' bunch of 'who the fuck are theys' but at least Quins gave it a lash and kept it respectable.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:17 pmMargin posted the teams further up. There's a fair number of 'who the fuck are they?' players in the Tigers line up.
It's Prem at the weekend, they're playing Bristol.JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:23 pm In case anyone is in danger of taking this seriously, this game in the development competition is taking place three days afterLeicester played in the league and four days before they play a knockout game against Leinster. I'm surprised we recognise as many tigers players as we do.