Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[C T]

The bold Corbs here thinks Sinkler is as good a scrummager as Furlong and gets the start because of his "chop tackles"

I guess they mean H. Watson at 20.

[Big D]

This might be the most open selection the week of a test. Not sure that is a good thing.

[C T]

Some interesting stats on the forwards:



Loosehead and hooker have some points to argue, but I really don't see Fagerson doing well.

However, having done stats myself, there's a big difference between starting front row, and subbing on with 20 minutes, in terms of how much work they do.

Is it just me who doesn't remember seeing those meters per run by Curry? Am I such a Mish fanboi that I'm Just blind to Curry? Or was it a big run in an open field?

[Begbie]

The bold Corbs here thinks Sinkler is as good a scrummager as Furlong and gets the start because of his "chop tackles"

I guess they mean H. Watson at 20.

Yeah.

The other highlights are Beirne isn't physical enough and Harris played himself out of the team in "a game", would be nice to know which game. I suspect he'd be hard pushed to tell you if you asked.

[Raggs]

For some of those stats e.g the metres made is still a small sample size where one big run can make a huge difference.

There are some stats that I'm not too bothered about; like passing. Furlong isn't in the team to pass the ball and it isn't his strong suit.

I think everyone knows Fagerson hasn't been at his best this tour. Which is a shame but happens unfortunately.

It is a shame there are no stats for rucks hit, successful clear outs etc.

There are a few professional outlets starting to do ruck marks now. Whenever I did them for England, Mako and Sinckler (in general) had insane workrates. The daft thing about both of them (Sinks in particular) is their kick chasing though. Watching a game, 60 minutes in, and still seeing Sinkler as the 2nd man chasing up after a kick takes some engine.

[Jock42]

Some interesting stats on the forwards:



Loosehead and hooker have some points to argue, but I really don't see Fagerson doing well.

However, having done stats myself, there's a big difference between starting front row, and subbing on with 20 minutes, in terms of how much work they do.

Is it just me who doesn't remember seeing those meters per run by Curry? Am I such a Mish fanboi that I'm Just blind to Curry? Or was it a big run in an open field?

He had the latter against the A team

[Slick]

I got thinking last night if there is a bit of ego at work between Gatland and Eddie Jones which is clouding some selections.

I’m a big Daley fan but he seems absolutely intent on giving him as much game time to be able to pick him at 13. Also, why have the Lions not tried Curry at 8? This doesn’t seem a strong position at the moment and we have 2 outstanding 7’s. It wasn’t a disaster when he played there for England so surprised he doesn’t seem to have even considered it.

Then we have Simmonds on tour (he definitely should be), Smith being called up etc.

Just a thought

[Big D]

For some of those stats e.g the metres made is still a small sample size where one big run can make a huge difference.

There are some stats that I'm not too bothered about; like passing. Furlong isn't in the team to pass the ball and it isn't his strong suit.

I think everyone knows Fagerson hasn't been at his best this tour. Which is a shame but happens unfortunately.

It is a shame there are no stats for rucks hit, successful clear outs etc.

There are a few professional outlets starting to do ruck marks now. Whenever I did them for England, Mako and Sinckler (in general) had insane workrates. The daft thing about both of them (Sinks in particular) is their kick chasing though. Watching a game, 60 minutes in, and still seeing Sinkler as the 2nd man chasing up after a kick takes some engine.

Rugby is such a tricky sport to keep stats on I don't envy you. Even with a ruck count, there are times where players get to a ruck and have zero impact.

We also don't know their specific roles. Sutherland for example won't be asked to be the first receiver as often and will get less touches.

I do like a good stat and think they broadly support my feelings of the match day front rows being Sutherland, Jones, George, LCD, Furlong and Sinckler.

[Raggs]

For some of those stats e.g the metres made is still a small sample size where one big run can make a huge difference.

There are some stats that I'm not too bothered about; like passing. Furlong isn't in the team to pass the ball and it isn't his strong suit.

I think everyone knows Fagerson hasn't been at his best this tour. Which is a shame but happens unfortunately.

It is a shame there are no stats for rucks hit, successful clear outs etc.

There are a few professional outlets starting to do ruck marks now. Whenever I did them for England, Mako and Sinckler (in general) had insane workrates. The daft thing about both of them (Sinks in particular) is their kick chasing though. Watching a game, 60 minutes in, and still seeing Sinkler as the 2nd man chasing up after a kick takes some engine.

Rugby is such a tricky sport to keep stats on I don't envy you. Even with a ruck count, there are times where players get to a ruck and have zero impact.

We also don't know their specific roles. Sutherland for example won't be asked to be the first receiver as often and will get less touches.

I do like a good stat and think they broadly support my feelings of the match day front rows being Sutherland, Jones, George, LCD, Furlong and Sinckler.

When i did/do them every ruck interaction is graded on effectiveness as well as if it was even necessary etc. Whether it was insufficient too in the case of clearouts.

Also recorded who took lineouts, or even seriously competed in them since it takes just as much effort.

[Big D]

There are a few professional outlets starting to do ruck marks now. Whenever I did them for England, Mako and Sinckler (in general) had insane workrates. The daft thing about both of them (Sinks in particular) is their kick chasing though. Watching a game, 60 minutes in, and still seeing Sinkler as the 2nd man chasing up after a kick takes some engine.

Rugby is such a tricky sport to keep stats on I don't envy you. Even with a ruck count, there are times where players get to a ruck and have zero impact.

We also don't know their specific roles. Sutherland for example won't be asked to be the first receiver as often and will get less touches.

I do like a good stat and think they broadly support my feelings of the match day front rows being Sutherland, Jones, George, LCD, Furlong and Sinckler.

When i did/do them every ruck interaction is graded on effectiveness as well as if it was even necessary etc. Whether it was insufficient too in the case of clearouts.

Also recorded who took lineouts, or even seriously competed in them since it takes just as much effort.

Sounds good.

One comment about a Scottish player was all about the number of rucks he got to. Then when I watched a game of his he was 3rd or 4th man most of the time. Glad there is a method to the stats madness :-)

[Raggs]

Yeah, being 3rd or 4th usually means you're not working too hard. Not a guarantee that you're ruck inspecting but a potential sign.

Dan Cole at the end of his England career was a shadow of his earlier work. And indeed even now he seems to be working much harder for Leicester.

[SaintK]

I got thinking last night if there is a bit of ego at work between Gatland and Eddie Jones which is clouding some selections.

I’m a big Daley fan but he seems absolutely intent on giving him as much game time to be able to pick him at 13. Also, why have the Lions not tried Curry at 8? This doesn’t seem a strong position at the moment and we have 2 outstanding 7’s. It wasn’t a disaster when he played there for England so surprised he doesn’t seem to have even considered it.

Then we have Simmonds on tour (he definitely should be), Smith being called up etc.

Just a thought

Lions matches far too important to Gatland for those games!
And with two Scotsmen on the team selection panel...nah!!

[Big D]

I got thinking last night if there is a bit of ego at work between Gatland and Eddie Jones which is clouding some selections.

I’m a big Daley fan but he seems absolutely intent on giving him as much game time to be able to pick him at 13. Also, why have the Lions not tried Curry at 8? This doesn’t seem a strong position at the moment and we have 2 outstanding 7’s. It wasn’t a disaster when he played there for England so surprised he doesn’t seem to have even considered it.

Then we have Simmonds on tour (he definitely should be), Smith being called up etc.

Just a thought

I think it is just a difference in coaching styles. Particularly with Townsend involved. Smith and Simmonds are more his type of player too.

[Yr Alban]

I got thinking last night if there is a bit of ego at work between Gatland and Eddie Jones which is clouding some selections.

I’m a big Daley fan but he seems absolutely intent on giving him as much game time to be able to pick him at 13. Also, why have the Lions not tried Curry at 8? This doesn’t seem a strong position at the moment and we have 2 outstanding 7’s. It wasn’t a disaster when he played there for England so surprised he doesn’t seem to have even considered it.

Then we have Simmonds on tour (he definitely should be), Smith being called up etc.

Just a thought

Lions matches far too important to Gatland for those games!
And with two Scotsmen on the team selection panel...nah!!

One and a half. Steve Tandy is Welsh, though he does work for the SRU.

[Chilli]

Please start with
Mako
Lawes
Price
Farrell

[Blackmac]

The bold Corbs here thinks Sinkler is as good a scrummager as Furlong and gets the start because of his "chop tackles"

I guess they mean H. Watson at 20.

Yeah.

The other highlights are Beirne isn't physical enough and Harris played himself out of the team in "a game", would be nice to know which game. I suspect he'd be hard pushed to tell you if you asked.

To be fair he is being quite generous to us. Matt Dawson has zero Scots in the 23.

[Openside]

I think we need to be careful getting too far ahead with x or y was good last night, especially where it was "only" the second half. SA took their foot off the gas a little with all their subs. That being said I think Daly continued to put forward a good case for a spot in the 23.

It feels like Harris and Daly will be either 13 or 23. Harris covers centre and wing and Daly also covers full back.

Not sure what Hogg has done on tour thus far to start the 1st test?

I don't think any of the full back options have separated themselves from the field and are all classy players. Last night was the only real test thus far and the other games have been against tomato cans.

Having watched last night I think Hogg will be needed for a 2nd kicking option similar to what Scotland did v France. I can't see how Farrell can start at 12 after last nights performance and they need a second boot. Hogg is a better boot than any of the other options. He also brings a different type of counter attacking than Williams and Watson who are a bit more rangy (and also very good), Hogg is good at stepping through traffic which may also be beneficial v that style of defence.

One underrated aspect of Hogg's game is he reads games pretty well as a senior player, I genuinely think he has been Scotlands best captains for a long time. I am confident he'd have been in Murrays ear last night to take a scrum at the end of the 1st half. I think there is still a chance we see Hogg as the test captain. AWJ may not be ready to go even though he is benching on Saturday and Murray was hopeless last night.

That being said, I have maintained and believe that the Lions can't really go wrong in the back 3. Although for me LRZ should miss out.

I agree unless AWJ is fit I reckon Hogg should captain the test team.

[Big D]

Tandy confirms all on track bar Finn.

[SaintK]

I think we need to be careful getting too far ahead with x or y was good last night, especially where it was "only" the second half. SA took their foot off the gas a little with all their subs. That being said I think Daly continued to put forward a good case for a spot in the 23.

It feels like Harris and Daly will be either 13 or 23. Harris covers centre and wing and Daly also covers full back.

Not sure what Hogg has done on tour thus far to start the 1st test?

I don't think any of the full back options have separated themselves from the field and are all classy players. Last night was the only real test thus far and the other games have been against tomato cans.

Having watched last night I think Hogg will be needed for a 2nd kicking option similar to what Scotland did v France. I can't see how Farrell can start at 12 after last nights performance and they need a second boot. Hogg is a better boot than any of the other options. He also brings a different type of counter attacking than Williams and Watson who are a bit more rangy (and also very good), Hogg is good at stepping through traffic which may also be beneficial v that style of defence.

One underrated aspect of Hogg's game is he reads games pretty well as a senior player, I genuinely think he has been Scotlands best captains for a long time. I am confident he'd have been in Murrays ear last night to take a scrum at the end of the 1st half. I think there is still a chance we see Hogg as the test captain. AWJ may not be ready to go even though he is benching on Saturday and Murray was hopeless last night.

That being said, I have maintained and believe that the Lions can't really go wrong in the back 3. Although for me LRZ should miss out.

I agree unless AWJ is fit I reckon Hogg should captain the test team.

Who captains if Hogg and Murray aren't selected to sstart?

[Biffer]

I guess they mean H. Watson at 20.

Yeah.

The other highlights are Beirne isn't physical enough and Harris played himself out of the team in "a game", would be nice to know which game. I suspect he'd be hard pushed to tell you if you asked.

To be fair he is being quite generous to us. Matt Dawson has zero Scots in the 23.

Yeah, Dawson hasn't got over us winning at Twickenham

[Big D]

I think we need to be careful getting too far ahead with x or y was good last night, especially where it was "only" the second half. SA took their foot off the gas a little with all their subs. That being said I think Daly continued to put forward a good case for a spot in the 23.

It feels like Harris and Daly will be either 13 or 23. Harris covers centre and wing and Daly also covers full back.




I don't think any of the full back options have separated themselves from the field and are all classy players. Last night was the only real test thus far and the other games have been against tomato cans.

Having watched last night I think Hogg will be needed for a 2nd kicking option similar to what Scotland did v France. I can't see how Farrell can start at 12 after last nights performance and they need a second boot. Hogg is a better boot than any of the other options. He also brings a different type of counter attacking than Williams and Watson who are a bit more rangy (and also very good), Hogg is good at stepping through traffic which may also be beneficial v that style of defence.

One underrated aspect of Hogg's game is he reads games pretty well as a senior player, I genuinely think he has been Scotlands best captains for a long time. I am confident he'd have been in Murrays ear last night to take a scrum at the end of the 1st half. I think there is still a chance we see Hogg as the test captain. AWJ may not be ready to go even though he is benching on Saturday and Murray was hopeless last night.

That being said, I have maintained and believe that the Lions can't really go wrong in the back 3. Although for me LRZ should miss out.

I agree unless AWJ is fit I reckon Hogg should captain the test team.

Who captains if Hogg and Murray aren't selected to sstart?

If AWJ/Murray/Hogg don't start I guess it would be George/Owen if either starts at hooker?

[Lobby]

I agree unless AWJ is fit I reckon Hogg should captain the test team.

Who captains if Hogg and Murray aren't selected to sstart?

If AWJ/Murray/Hogg don't start I guess it would be George/Owen if either starts at hooker?

Itoje should also be considered if AWJ and Murray aren't selected.

But I can't see AWJ not starting the first test after all the fuss that has been made about him being able to come back and rejoin the Lions.

[Jock42]

Tandy confirms all on track bar Finn.

Excellent, he's due to miss this test but be back to orchestrate the come back and win the series 2-1 from next week. That right?

[Slick]

Tandy confirms all on track bar Finn.

Excellent, he's due to miss this test but be back to orchestrate the come back and win the series 2-1 from next week. That right?

That’s the memo I just got

[Biffer]

My selection

1. Sutherland
2. George
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. AWJ
6. Beirne
7. Watson
8. Conan
9. Price
10. Biggar
11. Watson
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Adams
15. Hogg

16. Owens 17. Jones 18. Sinckler 19. Henderson 20. Lawes 21. Curry 22. Murray 23. Daly

I'm not sure that Gatland is going to agree with me in the following ways.
- I think he'll force Vunipola in there in some way
- The hookers are really close - I'm taking George because he's the best throw in guy imo
- AWJ might not be considered fit enough
- The Watson / Curry call is bloody close.
- Faletau might have money in the bank
- back three there are arguments for virtually everyone. LRZ for pure speed (but I don't think that's enough) VdM because Gatland loves a big unit on the wing, Williams because he's excellent. But I'm picking Hogg as his boot provides an additional and important part of the play, Adams because he can't stop scoring and Watson for all round excellence.

With no 10 on the bench I'm relying on Biggar playing 80, Hogg as emergency cover. I understand there's a hell of a risk to that, but Farrell has been pish.

[JM2K6]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

[dpedin]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

Don't disagree with the team selection apart from Curry for Faletau at 8.

[dkm57]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

Yeah, works for me, though I'd maybe go Lawes, Watson, Currie in the backrow. Unbelievably Price/Biggar really is the only halfback game in town at the moment. Farrell will never be a 10 as long as he's got a hole in his @rse, decent 12 though are better on tour.

[Slick]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

Too many Scots

[Yr Alban]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

Too many Scots

I actually agree with this. If we have 6 starters, then guess who is getting the blame if the Lions lose? I’d be delighted with 3 or 4 TBH.

[JM2K6]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

Too many Scots

I actually agree with this. If we have 6 starters, then guess who is getting the blame if the Lions lose? I’d be delighted with 3 or 4 TBH.

Loads of English on the bench. Just be ahead by the time the subs happen.

[westport]

Tandy confirms all on track bar Finn.

Excellent, he's due to miss this test but be back to orchestrate the come back and win the series 2-1 from next week. That right?

Tandy was saying Finn now has the boot off and doing work with the medics and S&C guys

[Margin__Walker]

. wrong thread

[Slick]

When are we expecting the team announcement?

[duke]

Thursday

[Slick]

Thursday

Cheers. Apparently players being told today so we can expect some leaks i guess

[duke]

Thursday

Cheers. Apparently players being told today so we can expect some leaks i guess

Full team in tomorrow's Daily Heil?

[Begbie]

Thursday

Cheers. Apparently players being told today so we can expect some leaks i guess

AWJ starting has already leaked.

[Openside]

1. Sutherland - no-one's been great
2. LCD - the outstanding hooker performances have come from him, and he's one of the few who can really cause the Saffers problems in multiple areas
3. Furlong - he's been really quiet with his scrummaging on tour, perhaps I expect too much from him as I'm sure I had this conversation a year or two ago
4. AWJ - leadership and spite sorely required
5. Itoje - has been good on tour
6. Lawes - has a bit more physicality than Beirne and is an excellent lineout option. Does some of the AWJ 'enforcer' work.
7. Watson - Or Curry, really. Chosen Watson here as I think he's a better option with Lawes; if we pick Beirne, gimme Curry
8. Faletau - he's been piss poor really but this is my one gamble spot. You could pick Conan, who is okay, or Curry, who isn't an 8. Simmonds hasn't done much except for his little cameo during the week.
9. Price - Davies has been okay at times, Murray has been completely gash.
10. Biggar - good, physical, mentally strongy, excellent competitor.
11. VDM - he's steamrolled everyone and has been heavily involved. Must be in the side.
12. Henshaw - not his best position but Aki is an empty shirt and Farrell's been stinking the place out. Think he handles 12 better than Harris does.
13. Harris - Daly's defensive problems concern me.
14. Adams - scores for fun, hard as nails. Watson an acceptable alternative as he has better footwork.
15. Hogg - that backline needs more footwork and magic, and Hogg can bring that.

16. George (Owens hasn't done much imo, and aside from the occasional bad lineout George has been good)
17. Mako (no good options here so whatever, go on faith?)
18. Sinckler (huge workrate, has shown up well)
19. Beirne (covering 6 and lock)
20. Curry (covering 6/7/8)
21. Davies (better than Murray)
22. Daly (has shown excellent impact off the bench and covers a lot of positions)
23. Farrell (10 cover / 12 option if we need to change tactics. He's been bad, but there you go)


Life made harder by the utter lack of form of certain players, by Covid having its say, etc

Can’t argue with any of that.

[Kawazaki]

My prediction for 1st Test Lions side...

1. Sutherland
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. AW Jones
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8. Faletau

9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Adams
12. Henshaw
13. Harris
14. Williams
15. Hogg

16. George
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Lawes
20. H. Watson
21. Davies
22. Daly
23. A. Watson


No Farrell which admittedly is very unlikely. He'd replace A. Watson in this lineup. Just two English starters as well but very much an English bench. Lawes covering lock, the bench is designed to significantly up the tempo. Hogg would be covering flyhalf if Farrell is not in the 23.