The Brexit Thread

[Rhubarb & Custard]

JRM! DOH!

Jacob so often has a foot 'n mouth appearance, the best you can say is this was a slow placing of the foot into the mouth

[Insane_Homer]

The concern isn't so much Brexit on that one it is Germany just have better infrastructure and talent to do that.

*France

Wasn't leaving the EU was supposed to "unleash our potential" and thus make us competitive in this type of scenario?

[Bimbowomxn]

Is there any difference between No Deal and Shit Deal this week?

Estimate -2% gdp next year, over 10 years -0.8%

Or a month of covid lockdowns.

[Bimbowomxn]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

I was shouted down at every opportunity as I pointed this out .... it’s almost as if I work in industrial import / export for a company that has a trusted trader status.

[Longshanks]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

I was shouted down at every opportunity as I pointed this out .... it’s almost as if I work in industrial import / export for a company that has a trusted trader status.

Of course with this deal Boris has given into the EU by allowing some checks. But it won't be an EU office building, oh no, it's a government building!

[fishfoodie]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

The TT scheme was supposed to be policed by the UK exclusively, because there was no seas border, & no EU. It relied on magic technology to see what was in the back of lorries crossing & recrossing the border.

The new arrangement will exist, WITH, a border in the Irish Sea, & with EU officials counting the lorries rolling off the ferries (in both Dublin & Larne).

If the EU sees 200 Lorries, & know that last year there were only 20; they will suspect something is leaking across the border.

[Bimbowomxn]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

I was shouted down at every opportunity as I pointed this out .... it’s almost as if I work in industrial import / export for a company that has a trusted trader status.

Of course with this deal Boris has given into the EU by allowing some checks. But it won't be an EU office building, oh no, it's a government building!

Some checks on specific goods. As I’ve kinda said all along only 1-2% of what arrives in Rotterdam from outside the Union gets checked so Ireland wasn’t really a concern.

[Bimbowomxn]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

The TT scheme was supposed to be policed by the UK exclusively, because there was no seas border, & no EU. It relied on magic technology to see what was in the back of lorries crossing & recrossing the border.

The new arrangement will exist, WITH, a border in the Irish Sea, & with EU officials counting the lorries rolling off the ferries (in both Dublin & Larne).

If the EU sees 200 Lorries, & know that last year there were only 20; they will suspect something is leaking across the border.

The border in the Irish Sea was written into the withdrawal agreement a year ago.

Oh and Lorry counting you literally haven’t a clue.

[Longshanks]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

The TT scheme was supposed to be policed by the UK exclusively, because there was no seas border, & no EU. It relied on magic technology to see what was in the back of lorries crossing & recrossing the border.

The new arrangement will exist, WITH, a border in the Irish Sea, & with EU officials counting the lorries rolling off the ferries (in both Dublin & Larne).

If the EU sees 200 Lorries, & know that last year there were only 20; they will suspect something is leaking across the border.

FF
Let's be honest, unicorns exist after all.
Anyway, everyone happy so that's great news.

[Northern Lights]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

I was shouted down at every opportunity as I pointed this out .... it’s almost as if I work in industrial import / export for a company that has a trusted trader status.

How are you getting with current fiasco getting containers in and out of the country? It's a fecking nightmre at the moment and it is globally, apparently LA is in chaos too. Governments shutting down economies worldwide is now coming home to roost.

[Line6 HXFX]

Project fear is officially now project here.

Country is run by English supremacist, hateful arrogant pricks, and will be just a laundry for Russian money.

We really need to start taxing the rich until they fuck off.



Hey turns out we didn't need to tax them at all, for them to fuck off, just do everything they ever wanted.

[fishfoodie]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

The TT scheme was supposed to be policed by the UK exclusively, because there was no seas border, & no EU. It relied on magic technology to see what was in the back of lorries crossing & recrossing the border.

The new arrangement will exist, WITH, a border in the Irish Sea, & with EU officials counting the lorries rolling off the ferries (in both Dublin & Larne).

If the EU sees 200 Lorries, & know that last year there were only 20; they will suspect something is leaking across the border.

FF
Let's be honest, unicorns exist after all.
Anyway, everyone happy so that's great news.

Yes, it is indeed positive news that the EU & UK are working thru the processes that need to happen, but this is stuff that was agreed to in the WA, & is only now happening.

Unicorns may exist, but if you were promised this:



and this is whats delivered; is it worth the price ?

[Bimbowomxn]

The strangest part of that deal on the NI protocol is that 98% of goods that go between GB and NI will be exempt from tariffs because of a trusted trader arrangement. I'm no Brexiteer (far from it), but I remember when that was suggested by the UK side to use trusted trader it was laughed at as something that did not exist, and would never exist. It was unicorns! Every single shipment would need to checked. So why have the EU accepted this now when they wouldn't in the past? It would have saved a lot of bad feeling.

I was shouted down at every opportunity as I pointed this out .... it’s almost as if I work in industrial import / export for a company that has a trusted trader status.

How are you getting with current fiasco getting containers in and out of the country? It's a fecking nightmre at the moment and it is globally, apparently LA is in chaos too. Governments shutting down economies worldwide is now coming home to roost.

Warehouse wise we are 110% full. There’s no space to rent now either .... we have been like this since summer, and a large storage of Fruit and Nut which we’d have expected to run down going into Xmas has stick around because of the lockdowns on hospitality.

Felixstowe fell over in August. Scrabbling around to get stuff through port of London and also Southampton has been used a lot.

Yep Covid stuff the main issue, we store industrial coffee and lockdowns knocked sales by 40-50% this year from the two main chains. Good for us currently but a genuine nightmare through the ports.

It’s not just here, or LA , Antwerp has been effectively full for a couple of months now as well.

[Saint]

No deal to be announced on Sunday then

[Longshanks]

No deal to be announced on Sunday then

Then why not do it now?
As torturous as this is, a lot could happen between now and Sunday.....

[Sandstorm]

No deal to be announced on Sunday then

Then why not do it now?
As torturous as this is, a lot could happen between now and Sunday.....

Because Starmer told Boris to do it at lunchtime today. Can’t have that......

[fishfoodie]

No deal to be announced on Sunday then

Then why not do it now?
As torturous as this is, a lot could happen between now and Sunday.....

Because this way; there's a chance Liz, or Phil the Greek snuff it between now & Sunday, & they can slide the good news in that day.

[Saint]

No deal to be announced on Sunday then

Then why not do it now?
As torturous as this is, a lot could happen between now and Sunday.....

Because he has to stretch this out to make it appear to be the EU that's at fault. This has been the endgame all along

[fishfoodie]

No deal to be announced on Sunday then

Then why not do it now?
As torturous as this is, a lot could happen between now and Sunday.....

Because he has to stretch this out to make it appear to be the EU that's at fault. This has been the endgame all along

Yep !

"Over Ready Deal", & all of the promises made before the Ref must now be forgotten.



You should all just ignore all that the EU said about how these were all lies, & fantasy; & just believe that this wasn't inevitable.

[Paddington Bear]

The question is - which area would you cave on in Boris' position?
Fish? Sure it is a small part of the economy and there is national posturing involved, but this is just as true of EU states as it is of Britain. Also was a significant factor in the campaign.
Governance? It isn't reasonable to expect a UK outside the EU to be subject to the rulings of the European Court, particularly as the government is not attempting EFTA/EEA membership.
Level Playing Field? The issue here is the 'ratchet' clause. No one bar the odd far right loon is advocating lowering standards - but if we're out why should we have to follow their rules?

[Longshanks]

The question is - which area would you cave on in Boris' position?
Fish? Sure it is a small part of the economy and there is national posturing involved, but this is just as true of EU states as it is of Britain. Also was a significant factor in the campaign.
Governance? It isn't reasonable to expect a UK outside the EU to be subject to the rulings of the European Court, particularly as the government is not attempting EFTA/EEA membership.
Level Playing Field? The issue here is the 'ratchet' clause. No one bar the odd far right loon is advocating lowering standards - but if we're out why should we have to follow their rules?

I get the emotive feeling about sovereignty, but a deal with conditions is better than no deal imo.
However, Britain will survive no deal, its the first 6 months that will be the hardest.

[Longshanks]

No deal is also damaging for the EU side. Losing possibly its most influential member in terms of military, security and business experience was hardly a vote of confidence. And now they can't even get a deal.

Is Brexit really worth all the hassle though?

[Paddington Bear]

The question is - which area would you cave on in Boris' position?
Fish? Sure it is a small part of the economy and there is national posturing involved, but this is just as true of EU states as it is of Britain. Also was a significant factor in the campaign.
Governance? It isn't reasonable to expect a UK outside the EU to be subject to the rulings of the European Court, particularly as the government is not attempting EFTA/EEA membership.
Level Playing Field? The issue here is the 'ratchet' clause. No one bar the odd far right loon is advocating lowering standards - but if we're out why should we have to follow their rules?

I get the emotive feeling about sovereignty, but a deal with conditions is better than no deal imo.
However, Britain will survive no deal, its the first 6 months that will be the hardest.

I'd much rather have a deal but don't agree that if there is no compromise on these three issues that Boris should cave. Not expecting everything but these aren't unreasonable sticking points.

[Yeeb]

The question is - which area would you cave on in Boris' position?
Fish? Sure it is a small part of the economy and there is national posturing involved, but this is just as true of EU states as it is of Britain. Also was a significant factor in the campaign.
Governance? It isn't reasonable to expect a UK outside the EU to be subject to the rulings of the European Court, particularly as the government is not attempting EFTA/EEA membership.
Level Playing Field? The issue here is the 'ratchet' clause. No one bar the odd far right loon is advocating lowering standards - but if we're out why should we have to follow their rules?

I get the emotive feeling about sovereignty, but a deal with conditions is better than no deal imo.
However, Britain will survive no deal, its the first 6 months that will be the hardest.

Logically, uk should cave on the fish for ten years thing.
The governance / policing by Euro court thing makes no sense as the EU always said uk would not get the benefits of club membership without paying for them (which is fair) so why they should think it’s fair to have governance over a non member beats me ?

The Ratchet thing is less clear cut, I don’t know why there is this assumption that Uk wants to lower any standards - but this argument does seem somewhat punitive as it relates to future standards not being adhered to. Some fine or tariff system for failure to meet current standards is completely acceptable , but not for things not even written yet. It is not so hard to see some deliberate standard raising in the future by the EU being done with the sole intention of forcing the UK out of providing that good or service.

[dpedin]

The question is - which area would you cave on in Boris' position?
Fish? Sure it is a small part of the economy and there is national posturing involved, but this is just as true of EU states as it is of Britain. Also was a significant factor in the campaign.
Governance? It isn't reasonable to expect a UK outside the EU to be subject to the rulings of the European Court, particularly as the government is not attempting EFTA/EEA membership.
Level Playing Field? The issue here is the 'ratchet' clause. No one bar the odd far right loon is advocating lowering standards - but if we're out why should we have to follow their rules?

I get the emotive feeling about sovereignty, but a deal with conditions is better than no deal imo.
However, Britain will survive no deal, its the first 6 months that will be the hardest.

I'd much rather have a deal but don't agree that if there is no compromise on these three issues that Boris should cave. Not expecting everything but these aren't unreasonable sticking points.

Level playing field question. The EU, if we want to have tariff and quota free access, want us to stick to the standards they set in their EU market to avoid us undercutting them in the future. I understand that and if in their shoes I would do the same. Is it not the case that the UK then has an option - either adopt the same standards as the EU or else if we dont accept we will have tariffs placed on those goods affected? This also seems a reasonable ask, if not then the EU is in effect giving the UK carte blanche to change standards in the future in order to lower costs and sell at a lower price than the EU companies. IS this actually the case, need my simple mind to understand this!

[Longshanks]

The answer obviously is. Hold out till the last moment in hope the EU side folds, then cave and admit you and Brexit are full of &%$#

[Paddington Bear]

I get the emotive feeling about sovereignty, but a deal with conditions is better than no deal imo.
However, Britain will survive no deal, its the first 6 months that will be the hardest.

I'd much rather have a deal but don't agree that if there is no compromise on these three issues that Boris should cave. Not expecting everything but these aren't unreasonable sticking points.

Level playing field question. The EU, if we want to have tariff and quota free access, want us to stick to the standards they set in their EU market to avoid us undercutting them in the future. I understand that and if in their shoes I would do the same. Is it not the case that the UK then has an option - either adopt the same standards as the EU or else if we dont accept we will have tariffs placed on those goods affected? This also seems a reasonable ask, if not then the EU is in effect giving the UK carte blanche to change standards in the future in order to lower costs and sell at a lower price than the EU companies. IS this actually the case, need my simple mind to understand this!

A level playing field is fair and I don't think either side is really disputing it. The dispute is more focussed on the fact that the EU wants a 'ratchet' - i.e. the UK must change standards as the EU does, which is a separate issue.

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... us-tariffs

To defend the UK steel industry, International Trade Secretary Liz Truss is rolling over tariffs in response to the unjustified ‘Section 232’ tariffs imposed by the US on aluminium and steel imports. These tariffs will continue from January 1st when the UK becomes an independent trading nation once again...

In parallel, the UK government is suspending retaliatory tariffs resulting from the Boeing dispute in an effort to bring the US towards a reasonable settlement and show that the UK is serious about reaching a negotiated outcome. The government reserves the right to impose tariffs at any point if satisfactory progress towards an agreeable settlement is not made.

Meanwhile...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55254996

UK has 'no authority' to impose tariffs in Boeing row says US

The UK has "no authority" to impose tariffs as part of an aircraft subsidies row after leaving the EU, the US has said.

The response comes after the UK said it would drop tariffs against the US over subsidies for aerospace firms.

This was in a bid to reach a post-Brexit trade deal with Washington.

In November, the EU hit $4bn of US goods with duties of up to 25% in retaliation for illegal state aid given to American aerospace giant Boeing.

Earlier this week the UK government said tariffs will be suspended in the UK from 1 January, when the current post-Brexit transition period ends.

But the US responded saying the UK had no right to impose the tariffs anyway.

The US Trade Representative said only the EU sued the US at the WTO, while the UK "did not bring a case in its individual capacity."

"Therefore, the UK has no authority from the WTO to participate in any such action after it no longer is part of the EU."

It's almost like Liz and co don't having farkin clue!

https://www.ft.com/content/707b4a15-c73 ... cc20780a55

The UK’s move to break ranks with the EU angered the aerospace industry, which provides more than 100,000 jobs in the UK.

Airbus, one of the biggest UK employers in the civil aerospace sector, would no longer be able to trust the British government, said one industry executive.
...
“There was no consultation with industry on this,” added the executive. “This will not benefit Airbus. There will be only one beneficiary — Boeing, who will be delivering aircraft to IAG [owner of British Airways].”

[Paddington Bear]

Aren't the two articles saying the same thing? Those tariffs end on January 1st, regardless of how they happen.

[Sandstorm]

Warehouse wise we are 110% full. There’s no space to rent now either .... we have been like this since summer, and a large storage of Fruit and Nut which we’d have expected to run down going into Xmas has stick around because of the lockdowns on hospitality.

Felixstowe fell over in August. Scrabbling around to get stuff through port of London and also Southampton has been used a lot.

Yep Covid stuff the main issue, we store industrial coffee and lockdowns knocked sales by 40-50% this year from the two main chains. Good for us currently but a genuine nightmare through the ports.

It’s not just here, or LA , Antwerp has been effectively full for a couple of months now as well.

See, this is why no-one likes you. You are an ACTUAL expert on warehousing in the UK/Europe and have direct first-hand knowledge of how things are happening throughout the Summer. You have info that the Board would actually find interesting, rather than constant, contrarian posting that just annoys.

You never share this information, prefering to play the long game in the hope that you can eventually say "Ha! I told you all the Brexit would be fine". Dickhead.

Your new name on here is Long Cunt.

[Insane_Homer]

Singapore and the UK signed a free trade deal in the Southeast Asian city-state on Thursday.

The deal will cover a trade relationship worth more than (£17bn.

The agreement largely mirrors an existing deal between Singapore and the European Union.

Wooo! new deal, same as the one we had. Unleashing our potential!!!!

[Insane_Homer]

[Longshanks]

Singapore and the UK signed a free trade deal in the Southeast Asian city-state on Thursday.

The deal will cover a trade relationship worth more than (£17bn.

The agreement largely mirrors an existing deal between Singapore and the European Union.

Wooo! new deal, same as the one we had. Unleashing our potential!!!!

You do realise it can take years to develop a new trading agreement? Any country leaving the EU would/will do the same if they are able. You mirror what you have, then look to develop new markets and new arrangements. The UK has had 10 months, and they have done pretty well.

[Longshanks]

“I think the overall interests of the people of Europe it’s very important from my view that a deal is reached,” Mr Martin told journalists as he entered a meeting of fellow EU leaders in Brussels.

I like the new Irish PM, talks sense, like me.

[Longshanks]

The EU remind me of Arnie
"I want your clothes your boots and your motorcycle"

[Insane_Homer]

You do realise it can take years to develop a new trading agreement? Any country leaving the EU would/will do the same if they are able. You mirror what you have, then look to develop new markets and new arrangements. The UK has had 10 months, and they have done pretty well.

Brilliant, 11 months to get ~28 agreements rolled over, so we can at best be in exactly the same trade position as our EU membership

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

meanwhile 49% of our trade with EU is at real risk, about to go up in smoke. None of those roll overs will make a jot of difference, and we don't have a deal with the USA and don't have a clue what we're doing to that end (see above).

So some pathetic roll of over of a tiny trade deal is nothing to get excited about when our 2 biggest trading partnerships are looking at best, fucking dire!

[Sandstorm]

The EU remind me of Arnie
"I want your clothes your boots and your motorcycle"

"Also you can't call a cab to get you home naked afterwards."

[Longshanks]

You do realise it can take years to develop a new trading agreement? Any country leaving the EU would/will do the same if they are able. You mirror what you have, then look to develop new markets and new arrangements. The UK has had 10 months, and they have done pretty well.

Brilliant, 11 months to get ~28 agreements rolled over, so we can at best be in exactly the same trade position as our EU membership

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

meanwhile 49% of our trade with EU is at real risk, about to go up in smoke. None of those roll overs will make a jot of difference, and we don't have a deal with the USA and don't have a clue what we're doing to that end (see above).

So some pathetic roll of over of a tiny trade deal is nothing to get excited about when our 2 biggest trading partnerships are looking at best, fucking dire!

They need to replace existing deals where they can. Sniping every time one is signed is just weird.

[Longshanks]

The EU remind me of Arnie
"I want your clothes your boots and your motorcycle"

"Also you can't call a cab to get you home naked afterwards."

Ireland remind me of Father Ted at the end of the episode with Chris the sheep.

[dpedin]

I'd much rather have a deal but don't agree that if there is no compromise on these three issues that Boris should cave. Not expecting everything but these aren't unreasonable sticking points.

Level playing field question. The EU, if we want to have tariff and quota free access, want us to stick to the standards they set in their EU market to avoid us undercutting them in the future. I understand that and if in their shoes I would do the same. Is it not the case that the UK then has an option - either adopt the same standards as the EU or else if we dont accept we will have tariffs placed on those goods affected? This also seems a reasonable ask, if not then the EU is in effect giving the UK carte blanche to change standards in the future in order to lower costs and sell at a lower price than the EU companies. IS this actually the case, need my simple mind to understand this!

A level playing field is fair and I don't think either side is really disputing it. The dispute is more focussed on the fact that the EU wants a 'ratchet' - i.e. the UK must change standards as the EU does, which is a separate issue.

But that is my question - does the UK have an option - either adopt the EU standards as per the 'dynamic ratchet' or else just accept there will be tariffs imposed on the goods/services in question?