NPR

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:30 am I find it funny that you think kicking is part of a "game plan". Rugby has a clear blueprint. If you spend 80% of a game in your own half, you're going to be kicking for 80% of the game. No serious team runs out of their own half, it's suicide. That's why idiots think this or that coach stole his "game plan" from a previous coach. This is the way the game is played, we've been doing it long before Jake the snake came along. The only time a player would run out of their own half is if they clearly see that they can get in the oppositions half with support. In the modern era you don't run out of your own half through traffic, you kick and apply pressure. We lost because we foked up the execution in the second half, not because of a "game plan"

The "plan" was clear to me when they announce the team and it was based around scrums. In the first half you had de Klerk clear the ball quickly from the scrums, cause they knew they were up against a better scrum. In the second half he was taking his sweet time to get the ball out. The aim was to tire out the Lions forwards in the first half and capitalize when the reserves came on. Unfortunately that shit soccer pitch foked the plan up a bit.

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:28 pm

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:28 pm

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:30 am I find it funny that you think kicking is part of a "game plan". Rugby has a clear blueprint. If you spend 80% of a game in your own half, you're going to be kicking for 80% of the game. No serious team runs out of their own half, it's suicide. That's why idiots think this or that coach stole his "game plan" from a previous coach. This is the way the game is played, we've been doing it long before Jake the snake came along. The only time a player would run out of their own half is if they clearly see that they can get in the oppositions half with support. In the modern era you don't run out of your own half through traffic, you kick and apply pressure. We lost because we foked up the execution in the second half, not because of a "game plan"

The "plan" was clear to me when they announce the team and it was based around scrums. In the first half you had de Klerk clear the ball quickly from the scrums, cause they knew they were up against a better scrum. In the second half he was taking his sweet time to get the ball out. The aim was to tire out the Lions forwards in the first half and capitalize when the reserves came on. Unfortunately that shit soccer pitch foked the plan up a bit.

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:41 pm Talking of sig bets

Rassie really has got himself into an online mess. We better all get together and pray for the boks to win or else Rassie is going to make his name gat

Ex-Bok assistant coach: 'Stave off a sandpit ... use Newlands for Test'

Currently dormant Newlands would be best equipped to host the - possibly decisive - final Test of the series between the Springboks and British and Irish Lions.

That is the view of Gary Gold, assistant coach in charge of the forwards when the Boks won the 2009 series 2-1.


He is concerned about the possible state of Cape Town Stadium after the effects another Test this Saturday will have on its questionable playing surface.

It was already under scrutiny after breaking up noticeably underfoot in the first Test last weekend, won 22-17 by the Lions.


“It’s a problem,” says Gold, now head coach of the United States but currently back on home terrain for a few weeks. “You always know it will be generally wet and heavy in the Mother City at this time of year, even if it’s not going to rain specifically in the match.

“I think there’s a solution, sitting in wait 10 minutes down the road: Newlands. An historic ground is sitting there, in incredibly good nick pitch-wise.

“You can’t have people there, so that’s not an issue and makes for much easier logistics in a swap-over -- so even if not the second Test, I’d certainly advocate moving the third to Newlands.

“There’s already been a double-header at Cape Town Stadium (when the Bulls played SA ‘A’ and the Stormers later tackled the tourists), plus the SA ‘A’ game against the Lions, then the first Test ... it’s going to have an impact, and that surface is increasingly not fit for purpose.”

Gold says it is clear the surface suits soccer better: the venue was erected for the 2010 World Cup, even though it has now also become new home to WP Rugby.

“You saw a number of outside backs slipping in the (first) Test match; the scrums were churning up the turf … nobody wants to see that as a determining factor in a Test series of this gravitas.

Play Video
39s

Lions told to prepare for Springbok backlash after victory in series opener

Warren Gatland has braced his British and Irish Lions for a backlash from South Africa after the tourists seized a 1-0 lead in the series by winning 22-17 at Cape Town Stadium. "They'll be hurt from this because they're an incredibly proud nation...

“What a way to potentially send off Newlands, once and for all: let’s have the final Lions Test there. I feel very strongly that the game should be transferred ... it doesn’t affect anybody.”

He says Newlands, which has had very sporadic use in recent months, is tailor-made for a match of such gravitas.

“It has a Desso (hybrid grass) surface, properly geared for rugby usage, whereas Cape Town Stadium has an ordinary grass deck.

“It would be terribly sad if there were winter downpours next week and, after the exertions of another Test there this weekend, the final Test is played in a sandpit.

“Don’t they sometimes say that common sense is not very common? Come on, let’s do it.”

The series was initially intended to have the closing two Tests played in Johannesburg, but a recent decision was taken to play it in entirety in Cape Town.

Gold has mixed views on whether sticking to “Plan A” - having the bulk of the Tests in highveld conditions – would have suited the home cause better.

“It is a tricky one … I don’t think the highveld would have worried these Lions, put it that way.

“Why I have some doubts, about what would usually be deemed a Bok advantage up there at altitude, is that the tourists seem to be matching us at the kicking game.

“The thing with the highveld is that our kicking game generally becomes more effective: the ball hangs in the air longer; your runners have more time to get to the ball ... and that space in the back field; the ball tends to go a little bit further.

“But the Lions have been handling our kicking game quite well so far. They’ve actually matched it.”

Gold concedes that purely based on tradition, the Boks may rue the absence of highveld Tests.

“Look, in theory, going into the Test series as originally planned, all the connoisseurs out of there would have been thinking that yes, the highveld is good for us - by and large, it always has been.

“The fact of the matter is that a lot of our players live up there and are naturally acclimatised.

“So touch and go, it might have been a better call for us ... but it’s not to be, and perhaps not really a major swing factor in current (circumstances) anyway.”

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:34 am Who give a shit what Gary Gold thinks? Ffs

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:15 am

Sards wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:41 pm Talking of sig bets

Rassie really has got himself into an online mess. We better all get together and pray for the boks to win or else Rassie is going to make his name gat

Ja.........................it is a bit childish.

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:34 am Who give a shit what Gary Gold thinks? Ffs

sorCrer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:23 pm Have they banned that filthy Scot Hamish yet? Fucking thug.

Getting some in early ;)

Blake wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:28 pm

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:30 am I find it funny that you think kicking is part of a "game plan". Rugby has a clear blueprint. If you spend 80% of a game in your own half, you're going to be kicking for 80% of the game. No serious team runs out of their own half, it's suicide. That's why idiots think this or that coach stole his "game plan" from a previous coach. This is the way the game is played, we've been doing it long before Jake the snake came along. The only time a player would run out of their own half is if they clearly see that they can get in the oppositions half with support. In the modern era you don't run out of your own half through traffic, you kick and apply pressure. We lost because we foked up the execution in the second half, not because of a "game plan"

The "plan" was clear to me when they announce the team and it was based around scrums. In the first half you had de Klerk clear the ball quickly from the scrums, cause they knew they were up against a better scrum. In the second half he was taking his sweet time to get the ball out. The aim was to tire out the Lions forwards in the first half and capitalize when the reserves came on. Unfortunately that shit soccer pitch foked the plan up a bit.

THIS! FUCKING THIS!

I watched the Lions vs Bulls game over the weekend, and just for fun looked to see what happened every time the Lions tried to run the ball when they had possession between their 22m and halfway. EVERY SINGLE TIME, the Bulls forced a knock on and an attacking scrum, forced a turnover and scored a try, or forced a penalty and kicked for goal or the corner.

Zone 1: In your own 22m you kick long for territory. Bonus points if you kick it out. If you don't kick it out, you need to chase hard, because you want to keep them in Zone 3.
Zone 2: Between the 22m and 50m you kick it high and contestable, into Zone 3. You can take it slow. Wait for your chasers to set, and for the support runners / defensive line to set so they can move up in a straight line.
Zone 3: If you have possession or turn over possession in Zone 3, you play with tempo, because there is an opportunity to get points. Both World Cup Final tries were scored from Zone 3. If you don't have possession, this is where you want to pin your opposition for as long as possible and bash the shit out of them until you can turn over the ball. On the floor or after a knock-on when you have a dominant scrum.
Zone 4: You are in the red zone. You obviously try to score, and hope you don't butcher the chances, but here you grind it out. Tire out the opposition and lay siege to their line. Maybe even milk a card or two for repeated infringements.

It's simple, it's boring, it's attritional, but it's helluva effective if you execute it well. And just as well as it can work for you, it can also work as effectively against you.

We just couldn't camp in Zone 3 in the second half. Price kept kicking it into Zone 2, where we couldn't field the high ball, and the it was a series of Lions scums and penalties and lineouts in our half.
The could of times we managed to get into Zone 3 in the second half Faf scored our only try, and we almost scored another with 10 mins to go when the Lions played hot-potato with the ball after Kolbe contested a high kick.

Openside wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:20 am

sorCrer wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:23 pm Have they banned that filthy Scot Hamish yet? Fucking thug.

Getting some in early ;)

Steady!!

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:44 pm The definitive thread.

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:47 pm

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Don't have that one, but I do have one showing Siya lifting the leg and causing the twist (you can tell because when he let's go it drops back down).

In addition, as someone who's experienced "flying" admittedly from tighthead. There's virtually no way that someone from the other team, whether prop or flanker, is lifting you off the ground, they're quite literally at the wrong end. It's your own flanker/lock driving you forwards and up, under your arse, when they should be conceding ground. You can see that Furlong is almost flying, but his locks coil up a bit more (not exactly going backwards, but enough to stop him from being lifted off his feet), then he recovers his body position well enough, but the bok lock/backrow keep driving their prop forwards and up, causing the lift.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:03 pm It doesn't look like he's boring in from the longer clip I've seen.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:47 pm

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm Does anyone have a clip of Curry lifting Ox at the scrum?

Don't have that one, but I do have one showing Siya lifting the leg and causing the twist (you can tell because when he let's go it drops back down).

In addition, as someone who's experienced "flying" admittedly from tighthead. There's virtually no way that someone from the other team, whether prop or flanker, is lifting you off the ground, they're quite literally at the wrong end. It's your own flanker/lock driving you forwards and up, under your arse, when they should be conceding ground. You can see that Furlong is almost flying, but his locks coil up a bit more (not exactly going backwards, but enough to stop him from being lifted off his feet), then he recovers his body position well enough, but the bok lock/backrow keep driving their prop forwards and up, causing the lift.

Sards wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:25 am Can we stop making excuses

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:14 am We will win this test.

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:14 am We will win this test.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:26 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:14 am We will win this test.

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:26 am

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:14 am We will win this test.

From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:43 am

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:26 am


From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

I only mentioned Price and Daly, but Sutherland, Owens, Sinkler, Faletau and Beirne are all handy in the loose, and quick.
Faletau especially is a wide ranging player.

My one concern is that there isn't a like for like replacement for Curry, though Beirne is a monster at the breakdown so if Curry has to leave the scene the Lions will still have that arrow in the quiver.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:43 am

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:26 am


From the Lions selection it looks like they plan to play it tight for an hour and up the pace with Price and Daly for the last quarter, or at least that is my guess.

If they can dictate the match going that way then I think the Lions will win, it South Africa can bully the Lions up front then they could be far enough ahead to make little difference in that last period.

I think this time our bench are better equipped to deal with increased tempo in the second half. We shall see.

I only mentioned Price and Daly, but Sutherland, Owens, Sinkler, Faletau and Beirne are all handy in the loose, and quick.
Faletau especially is a wide ranging player.

My one concern is that there isn't a like for like replacement for Curry, though Beirne is a monster at the breakdown so if Curry has to leave the scene the Lions will still have that arrow in the quiver.

duke wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:21 am

I'd have preferred to see Sutherland starting as I think Mako is better coming off the bench, we will have to wait and see on that.

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:34 am I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:34 am I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary

handyman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:39 am Isn't this Rassie just taking all the heat of the players?

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:34 am I see that Rassie has released a 1 hour video on his "reflections".

Don't have the time to watch the whole thing, but looks like it's going to shake things up a bit more.

Will someone please post a summary