It did go to shit as they became more desparate, but I thought they were fairly hard done by tbh. The first yellow card was for repeated infringements, but the incident pinged was a borderline penalty at best. Cole absolutely did Iyogun in the scrum, but Heyes was going straight to floor when he came on and Dickson* interpreted that as Iyogun infringing. He also ignored a scrum right on Saints' line that they not only held up but forced Tigers into infringing and Dickson just reset, gifting Tigers another opportunity for Heys to take it straight down and getting Iyogun carded.
*He's such a shit ref. Every time I see him I lament that we could have had JP Doyle instead.
Prembore wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:12 pm
Pushing another player was a pen in the Bath game last night, today Dickson shrugs it off.
That one was so fucking stupid. Never before have I heard that a retreating player being in proximity to the ruck means it's fair game to just shove them.
Not sure how Saracens managed to win that. Farrell is your man for pressure kicks though.
Did Newcastle send the second XV to Worcester? Heard before KO that they didn't want to play the game as it was pointless given Worcester will be expelled from the league next week.
Another incredibly loose (and fun to watch) game between the two teams. And not one the defence coaches will look back upon fondly.
Bristol pack were on top in the first half. Genge especially put in a pretty monstrous performance both in the set piece and the loose. Randall also ran things well from the base and caused LI problems including a sharply taken try and a break that led to a yellow for a high tackle.
Game went back and forth a bit with Bristol mostly in front, but LI could have won it in the end after going multiple phases from their own 22 to deep into the Bristol half, before a knock on finished it. Bristol deserved winners on balance.
For LI Arundell will probably take any headlines, but Pearson was great on the openside. Relentless throughout both with and without the ball.
It did go to shit as they became more desparate, but I thought they were fairly hard done by tbh. The first yellow card was for repeated infringements, but the incident pinged was a borderline penalty at best. Cole absolutely did Iyogun in the scrum, but Heyes was going straight to floor when he came on and Dickson* interpreted that as Iyogun infringing. He also ignored a scrum right on Saints' line that they not only held up but forced Tigers into infringing and Dickson just reset, gifting Tigers another opportunity for Heys to take it straight down and getting Iyogun carded.
*He's such a shit ref. Every time I see him I lament that we could have had JP Doyle instead.
So many dire refs around. Going to be a mediocre season for Stains unless they can find some fwds who can front up.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:01 pm
I'm with the TMO on that one. Tempest getting the nudge from BT to validate their stupid match outcome predictor?
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:01 pm
I'm with the TMO on that one. Tempest getting the nudge from BT to validate their stupid match outcome predictor?
Me too, genuinely. It looked fine. Quins deserved to win to be fair, I can't say I was willing them on but you've got to admire their spirit. Danny Care made a huge difference as well.
Don't think we deserved to win though, attitude and application in the first half was genuinely appalling and you can't let a team break out from their own 5m line while a man down on the last play of the game.
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:24 am
So many dire refs around.
And yet nobody standing up to be better. Odd that
jesus another shithouse ref decision at end of Exeter vs quins - and Hogg's hair
It's a decent 6 figure income at this level, travelling across Europe expenses paid, also travel to some nice places further afield of Europe. It's just not as easy as saying they're rubbish/biased.
jesus another shithouse ref decision at end of Exeter vs quins - and Hogg's hair
It's a decent 6 figure income at this level, travelling across Europe expenses paid, also travel to some nice places further afield of Europe. It's just not as easy as saying they're rubbish/biased.
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:31 pm
He's saying it was forward, not that it was fine.
Don't think we deserved to win though, attitude and application in the first half was genuinely appalling and you can't let a team break out from their own 5m line while a man down on the last play of the game.
Ah yes, misread it.
Quins just didn't get their hands on the ball in that first half. They didn't seem to contest any rucks, just fanned out. They nearly conceded another try at the start of the second half doing the same thing, just letting Exeter run one-out hit ups making 5m each carry with little to no effort to slow the ruck down. It was odd.
A player like Tom Willis would probably make Quins much much better and far harder to beat.
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:31 pm
He's saying it was forward, not that it was fine.
Don't think we deserved to win though, attitude and application in the first half was genuinely appalling and you can't let a team break out from their own 5m line while a man down on the last play of the game.
Ah yes, misread it.
Quins just didn't get their hands on the ball in that first half. They didn't seem to contest any rucks, just fanned out. They nearly conceded another try at the start of the second half doing the same thing, just letting Exeter run one-out hit ups making 5m each carry with little to no effort to slow the ruck down. It was odd.
A player like Tom Willis would probably make Quins much much better and far harder to beat.
Tbf Archie White is our bin juice back row, we're missing Dombrandt, Lawday, Chisholm, Lewies as our 8+6 options.
The overall attitude sucked and we looked like we were still in pre-season in the first half.
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:35 pm
I think you're being a bit harsh, Exeter were playing well, carrying hard. They're not mugs.
We were all over the place and offering no aggression in defence and getting in each other's way. In attack we were hopeless, no pace, loads of mistakes.
I have a lot of time for Exeter's attack but things like Tshiunza's first try or Anyanwu dropping a simple pass and handing them a score are just embarrassing.
Hell of a game. Have gone back and forward on the last call - I see both sides of it. I continue to wonder what the point of a video ref is if it doesn’t bring anymore clarity than we get from the ref
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 6:01 pm
Hell of a game. Have gone back and forward on the last call - I see both sides of it. I continue to wonder what the point of a video ref is if it doesn’t bring anymore clarity than we get from the ref
The TMO said it was clearly forward out of the hands and that the receiver was always in front. Couldn't have been much clearer with his statements tbh, Tempest just decided he didn't give a shit
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:35 pm
I think you're being a bit harsh, Exeter were playing well, carrying hard. They're not mugs.
We were all over the place and offering no aggression in defence and getting in each other's way. In attack we were hopeless, no pace, loads of mistakes.
I have a lot of time for Exeter's attack but things like Tshiunza's first try or Anyanwu dropping a simple pass and handing them a score are just embarrassing.
Quins are conceding a lot of points so clearly defence can be tightened up but there's plenty to be positive about. The errors will reduce and the defence will improve.
Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 5:35 pm
I think you're being a bit harsh, Exeter were playing well, carrying hard. They're not mugs.
We were all over the place and offering no aggression in defence and getting in each other's way. In attack we were hopeless, no pace, loads of mistakes.
I have a lot of time for Exeter's attack but things like Tshiunza's first try or Anyanwu dropping a simple pass and handing them a score are just embarrassing.
Quins are conceding a lot of points so clearly defence can be tightened up but there's plenty to be positive about. The errors will reduce and the defence will improve.
It'll be criminal if Murley is ignored by Eddiot.
It's not that long ago you were saying Murley should've been forced to retrain as a 9! :-)
We were all over the place and offering no aggression in defence and getting in each other's way. In attack we were hopeless, no pace, loads of mistakes.
I have a lot of time for Exeter's attack but things like Tshiunza's first try or Anyanwu dropping a simple pass and handing them a score are just embarrassing.
Quins are conceding a lot of points so clearly defence can be tightened up but there's plenty to be positive about. The errors will reduce and the defence will improve.
It'll be criminal if Murley is ignored by Eddiot.
It's not that long ago you were saying Murley should've been forced to retrain as a 9! :-)
Given who Jones keeps picking at 9, I'd suggest you play there if it meant the end of Youngs!
England Training squad announced today. Ribbans, Coles and Mitchell all in uncapped from Northampton.
FORWARDS
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 37 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 39 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 69 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)
Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 15 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 14 caps)
Tom Pearson (London Irish, uncapped)
David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, 2 caps)
Patrick Schickerling (Exeter Chiefs, uncapped)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 14 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
Hugh Tizard (Saracens, uncapped)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 64 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 70 caps)
Jack Walker (Harlequins, uncapped)
Jack Willis (Wasps, 4 caps)
BACKS
Henry Arundell (London Irish, 3 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 97 caps)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 6 caps)
Will Joseph (London Irish, 1 cap)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 69 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 42 caps)
Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 13 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 46 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 117 caps)
Unavailable for selection due to injury: Alfie Barbeary, Nic Dolly, Alex Dombrandt, Charlie Ewels, George Ford, Sam Jeffries, Maro Itoje, Nick Isiekwe, Courtney Lawes, Sam Underhill, Anthony Watson.
Porter, despite being legendarily shit in Australia, continues ahead of Marchant, who's a much better player. Nowell and Cokanasiga are still there as some sort of "lumbering pace-less injury risks" quota. May has been out of form for quite some time. Simmonds won't be selectable for the world cup I believe? Tom Willis should probably have that spot if so. Tizard's been playing worse for Saracens than for Quins so gets a callup. Manu gets yet another chance to play another 30 minutes before breaking. Marler's done, I guess? Isn't Sinckler fit now? He's better than Joe Heyes.
Glad to see Ribbans and Pearson, but this is not a squad that will worry any Tier 1 country.
Porter, despite being legendarily shit in Australia, continues ahead of Marchant, who's a much better player. Nowell and Cokanasiga are still there as some sort of "lumbering pace-less injury risks" quota. May has been out of form for quite some time. Simmonds won't be selectable for the world cup I believe? Tom Willis should probably have that spot if so. Tizard's been playing worse for Saracens than for Quins so gets a callup. Manu gets yet another chance to play another 30 minutes before breaking. Marler's done, I guess? Isn't Sinckler fit now? He's better than Joe Heyes.
Glad to see Ribbans and Pearson, but this is not a squad that will worry any Tier 1 country.
Bristol fans don't seem that surprised by Sinkler's exclusion. He was solid in the scrum, but otherwise very quiet in the game at the weekend. Who know with Marler. Never really know quite where he is with availability, understandably.
Last I heard Simmonds was apparently trying to structure his deal so that his contract in France starts after the RWC, to allow him to be available. Not sure if that will fly.
Porter, despite being legendarily shit in Australia, continues ahead of Marchant, who's a much better player. Nowell and Cokanasiga are still there as some sort of "lumbering pace-less injury risks" quota. May has been out of form for quite some time. Simmonds won't be selectable for the world cup I believe? Tom Willis should probably have that spot if so. Tizard's been playing worse for Saracens than for Quins so gets a callup. Manu gets yet another chance to play another 30 minutes before breaking. Marler's done, I guess? Isn't Sinckler fit now? He's better than Joe Heyes.
Glad to see Ribbans and Pearson, but this is not a squad that will worry any Tier 1 country.
Finally makes the cut when he hasn't played a match yet this season
Porter, despite being legendarily shit in Australia, continues ahead of Marchant, who's a much better player. Nowell and Cokanasiga are still there as some sort of "lumbering pace-less injury risks" quota. May has been out of form for quite some time. Simmonds won't be selectable for the world cup I believe? Tom Willis should probably have that spot if so. Tizard's been playing worse for Saracens than for Quins so gets a callup. Manu gets yet another chance to play another 30 minutes before breaking. Marler's done, I guess? Isn't Sinckler fit now? He's better than Joe Heyes.
Glad to see Ribbans and Pearson, but this is not a squad that will worry any Tier 1 country.
Big Joe C isn't even the current best winger at Bath. He seems to get out of position a fair bit in defence which I thought was an immediate dealbreaker for Eddie.
The Willis brothers looked very powerful against Bath, can't be long until Tom gets a call. On the Wasps front, is Launch now seen as disposable from an England perspective? Appreciate he's been in and out for a while but thought that was due to injuries, he looked OK in the Friday night game.
Porter, despite being legendarily shit in Australia, continues ahead of Marchant, who's a much better player. Nowell and Cokanasiga are still there as some sort of "lumbering pace-less injury risks" quota. May has been out of form for quite some time. Simmonds won't be selectable for the world cup I believe? Tom Willis should probably have that spot if so. Tizard's been playing worse for Saracens than for Quins so gets a callup. Manu gets yet another chance to play another 30 minutes before breaking. Marler's done, I guess? Isn't Sinckler fit now? He's better than Joe Heyes.
Glad to see Ribbans and Pearson, but this is not a squad that will worry any Tier 1 country.
Bristol fans don't seem that surprised by Sinkler's exclusion. He was solid in the scrum, but otherwise very quiet in the game at the weekend. Who know with Marler. Never really know quite where he is with availability, understandably.
Last I heard Simmonds was apparently trying to structure his deal so that his contract in France starts after the RWC, to allow him to be available. Not sure if that will fly.
With his new club or with England? I feel like if Eddie wants him he'll find a way to make it work. He was still under contract to Exeter when the world cup camp began, so it's fine or something.
With the club, he'd be covered by reg 9 for actual world cup games, but unless he gets a later than normal start date negotiated, beforehand could be tricky. I can't remember whether warm ups count as full tests and/or whether they're covered by reg 9.
I liked the look of Heyes a few years ago but he's not kicked on at all - I just don't see what he brings compared to Sinckler. He's much worse in the loose and at best equal in the scrum.
Nick Mullins has tweeted that Marchant has been told there's things to work on with his game. Cool, cool, coolcoolcool.
Guy Porter vs Australia: 2 matches, 21m made from 6 carries (0m in his 2nd game), 3 passes (0 in his 1st game), 16 successful tackles with 9 missed (65% success rate!), 3 turnovers conceded, 1 offload, 2 defenders beaten, no tries, no try assists
cool coool coooooooool
Launchbury isn't the force he used to be and I wouldn't put him ahead of the likes of Ribbans at this stage. Tom Willis is a good tank of an 8 though, have been surprised for a little while he's not had a look in, though I appreciate with Billy, Dombrandt, Simmonds around it's difficult, and Mercer's back now too.
inactionman wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:13 amBig Joe C isn't even the current best winger at Bath. He seems to get out of position a fair bit in defence which I thought was an immediate dealbreaker for Eddie.
The Willis brothers looked very powerful against Bath, can't be long until Tom gets a call. On the Wasps front, is Launch now seen as disposable from an England perspective? Appreciate he's been in and out for a while but thought that was due to injuries, he looked OK in the Friday night game.
I've given up trying to understand Eddie logic. Maybe it's all a grand plan that'll come together. A lot of it doesn't appear to be based on what we see on the pitch over and over, though.
I'm pleased Dingwall's still in the mix. Now to get him selected ahead of Porter who's certainly very lucky to still be involved ahead off some other players. Good to see Mitchell in, but he marks yet another spin of the scrum half merry go round for anyone not named Ben Youngs. Very little consistency of selection among the back ups, which must make it difficult for them to challenge.
Other than Genge and Stuart we don't really have any props who can scrummage that well. Second row really isn't the strength it was a few years ago. None of those players are bad, but none of them perform so well in the Prem that they scream 'pick me' like peak Kruis, Lawes, or Launchbury and/or they're very green.
Porter, despite being legendarily shit in Australia, continues ahead of Marchant, who's a much better player. Nowell and Cokanasiga are still there as some sort of "lumbering pace-less injury risks" quota. May has been out of form for quite some time. Simmonds won't be selectable for the world cup I believe? Tom Willis should probably have that spot if so. Tizard's been playing worse for Saracens than for Quins so gets a callup. Manu gets yet another chance to play another 30 minutes before breaking. Marler's done, I guess? Isn't Sinckler fit now? He's better than Joe Heyes.
Glad to see Ribbans and Pearson, but this is not a squad that will worry any Tier 1 country.
Big Joe C isn't even the current best winger at Bath. He seems to get out of position a fair bit in defence which I thought was an immediate dealbreaker for Eddie.
The Willis brothers looked very powerful against Bath, can't be long until Tom gets a call. On the Wasps front, is Launch now seen as disposable from an England perspective? Appreciate he's been in and out for a while but thought that was due to injuries, he looked OK in the Friday night game.
I've been saying for a little while that if we're going to call up a Bath winger, then it should be Muir and if we want Nowell, then just pick Murley who's younger, less of an injury risk and notably quicker.
Tom has been the better Willis for the last little while. Quite happy for Eddie to leave him with us, especially as Barbeary is injured again. Understandably Jack hasn't found his god like top form yet after such a long lay off, he's getting better with every game played. Still time for Launch to get in for the 6N I guess, but it does seem like Eddie's over him. I think he's shown enough to be in the mix.
