C T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:02 am
No. 8 has been a problem for Scotland though, so I can understand Dempsey. Fagerson is coming along nicely to be fai to him but a bit of depth won't hurt.
There is also a part of this rule I think to get the best players playing. If a player can add something to the international scene it's a bit daft having them watching on TV because they're tied to a team that is no longer interested in them.
I say all of this, but the reality is the Dempsey and particularly McConnochie does hurt my soul.
I have made my peace with the Dempsey selection. The guy was originally SQ and has made a commitment to Scotland by coming over to play for Glasgow. I’m fairly sure (willing to be corrected) that he was already there prior to what was a really surprising change in the WR eligibility rules that few saw coming. So I am OK with him playing for us.
McConnochie is another matter. With a name like that he has clearly been on the SRU’s radar since forever, and has presumably rejected previous approaches. Unlike Dempsey, he will have had a decision to make and chose England over Scotland, and unlike Dempsey he doesn’t live and play in Scotland. So I find this one a lot more uncomfortable, even if I very much doubt he will get into a match 22.
Devil's advocate: us not knowing and the SRU not knowing are different things...I'd hazard a guess that the SRU knew a change was likely and coming when they made the signing. It is just that though, a guess.
Take a look at the number of registered players. England are 5th. Now take a look at the numbers for U13s boys & girls. Fuck knows how that's recorded, but that's more than 1.1m of that 1.9m right there. Look, I won't lie, if there's ever an U13 world cup I will be bitterly disappointed if we don't win it, but I'm not sure these numbers mean anything relevant to us.
Every club in the country has to register all mini/junior players with the RFU club database via the Game Management System each season. In fact all club male and female players of all ages have to be registered this way My club stll have players registered who retired years ago because nobody can be arsed to use the GMS interface as it is so fucking uselessly clunky
Not sure if it is still the same but Scotland had similar where every player needed a registration number. So even if Bob next door who is 45 and had to borrow boots to play for the 2s count in the total numbers.
Pretty sure I am still registered after retiring at 30.
C T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:02 am
No. 8 has been a problem for Scotland though, so I can understand Dempsey. Fagerson is coming along nicely to be fai to him but a bit of depth won't hurt.
There is also a part of this rule I think to get the best players playing. If a player can add something to the international scene it's a bit daft having them watching on TV because they're tied to a team that is no longer interested in them.
I say all of this, but the reality is the Dempsey and particularly McConnochie does hurt my soul.
I have made my peace with the Dempsey selection. The guy was originally SQ and has made a commitment to Scotland by coming over to play for Glasgow. I’m fairly sure (willing to be corrected) that he was already there prior to what was a really surprising change in the WR eligibility rules that few saw coming. So I am OK with him playing for us.
McConnochie is another matter. With a name like that he has clearly been on the SRU’s radar since forever, and has presumably rejected previous approaches. Unlike Dempsey, he will have had a decision to make and chose England over Scotland, and unlike Dempsey he doesn’t live and play in Scotland. So I find this one a lot more uncomfortable, even if I very much doubt he will get into a match 22.
Devil's advocate: us not knowing and the SRU not knowing are different things...I'd hazard a guess that the SRU knew a change was likely and coming when they made the signing. It is just that though, a guess.
Every Union would know. It would have been floated ages ago. To be fair, number 8 is a position we have often in Scotland looked externally for in the recent past. Edinburgh have had Talei, Manu and big Bill and Glasgow have had Strauss and Dempsey who went on to be internationals but Strauss was a back up signing to Masoe who fell through at the last minute.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:19 pm
by Tichtheid
SRU launches Scrum School, looking to bolster front row numbers
Problem is lack of playing time for young front rows. Don't see how this addresses that.
I don't really follow you.
This is to encourage players into the front row and get better coaching for those that do. There are games being cancelled across the country due to lack of front row players (quote from the piece I linked to).
If we get more youngsters playing in the front row it will bolster the numbers available up through the grades. The programme is only for a year, presumably it's a pilot, if it's a success it can be continued and expanded.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 2:40 pm
by S/Lt_Phillips
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:41 pm
The talk about participation numbers got me googling the most popular participation sports in Scotland. My particular favourite, shinty, came in seventh but the report contained this gem.
"The sport is the traditional game of the Scottish Highlands, and it is still largely played nowadays. The most famous clubs are in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Perth, and Fife"
I played shinty when I was at university, so I'm guessing those 'famous' shinty clubs in Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Fife can only be the uni teams? I remember playing at St Andrews and the wind off the north sea was absolutely f*cking baltic
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:41 pm
The talk about participation numbers got me googling the most popular participation sports in Scotland. My particular favourite, shinty, came in seventh but the report contained this gem.
"The sport is the traditional game of the Scottish Highlands, and it is still largely played nowadays. The most famous clubs are in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Perth, and Fife"
I played shinty when I was at university, so I'm guessing those 'famous' shinty clubs in Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Fife can only be the uni teams? I remember playing at St Andrews and the wind off the north sea was absolutely f*cking baltic
I'd love to learn/watch a bit more of shinty, the bits I've seen have been great.
We got married in Tighnabruaich the day that Kyles Athletic won the Camanachd Cup for the first time in 20 odd years in 2012. The local pub had the biggest longest piss up I've ever seen - still going at lunchtime the next day
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:59 pm
by Tichtheid
"Kinlochshiel keeper (Graham Kennedy) saves penalty with his head to win Ballie Cup. Unintentional so constitutes as a save and not a foul,"
C T wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:02 am
No. 8 has been a problem for Scotland though, so I can understand Dempsey. Fagerson is coming along nicely to be fai to him but a bit of depth won't hurt.
There is also a part of this rule I think to get the best players playing. If a player can add something to the international scene it's a bit daft having them watching on TV because they're tied to a team that is no longer interested in them.
I say all of this, but the reality is the Dempsey and particularly McConnochie does hurt my soul.
I have made my peace with the Dempsey selection. The guy was originally SQ and has made a commitment to Scotland by coming over to play for Glasgow. I’m fairly sure (willing to be corrected) that he was already there prior to what was a really surprising change in the WR eligibility rules that few saw coming. So I am OK with him playing for us.
McConnochie is another matter. With a name like that he has clearly been on the SRU’s radar since forever, and has presumably rejected previous approaches. Unlike Dempsey, he will have had a decision to make and chose England over Scotland, and unlike Dempsey he doesn’t live and play in Scotland. So I find this one a lot more uncomfortable, even if I very much doubt he will get into a match 22.
Devil's advocate: us not knowing and the SRU not knowing are different things...I'd hazard a guess that the SRU knew a change was likely and coming when they made the signing. It is just that though, a guess.
I dunno. I would agree with you that the Unions would know, but the talk prior to the vote on this was very much that it had little chance of passing, and it seemed to come as a complete surprise when it did. But who knows?
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:29 pm
by mos_eisely_
This explains why McLean wasn't selected
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:40 pm
by Slick
mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:29 pm
This explains why McLean wasn't selected
Oh shit. What a disaster all round
Edit: Christ, the details of it are pretty grim
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:57 pm
by mos_eisely_
Yeah the details are really bad. There's no comeback from that.
London Irish might be interested though
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:13 pm
by Jock42
He'll be gone and rightly so.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:23 pm
by Dogbert
Yep - no way back - and rightly so
There is never any excuse for the behaviour that has been reported / admitted to.
What a waste
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:24 pm
by Blackmac
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:59 pm
"Kinlochshiel keeper (Graham Kennedy) saves penalty with his head to win Ballie Cup. Unintentional so constitutes as a save and not a foul,"
Pretty regular, deliberate occurrence back then but outlawed more recently due to the obvious safety implications. I played in the Shinty/Hurling international in the 80's and moved from full back into goal in the second half after our goalie did just that.
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:41 pm
The talk about participation numbers got me googling the most popular participation sports in Scotland. My particular favourite, shinty, came in seventh but the report contained this gem.
"The sport is the traditional game of the Scottish Highlands, and it is still largely played nowadays. The most famous clubs are in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Perth, and Fife"
I played shinty when I was at university, so I'm guessing those 'famous' shinty clubs in Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Fife can only be the uni teams? I remember playing at St Andrews and the wind off the north sea was absolutely f*cking baltic
I'd love to learn/watch a bit more of shinty, the bits I've seen have been great.
We got married in Tighnabruaich the day that Kyles Athletic won the Camanachd Cup for the first time in 20 odd years in 2012. The local pub had the biggest longest piss up I've ever seen - still going at lunchtime the next day
It was the reason I didn't take up rugby until I joined the forces. Playing shinty back then was everything and you would have been ridiculed for playing rugby as it was considered a sport for "posh poofs".
Safety has seriously improved since those days because it was just bloody violent. The New Year's Day derby between Lovat and Beauly was terrifying with all of the players still pissed from the night before and regularly topping up during the game.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:59 pm
"Kinlochshiel keeper (Graham Kennedy) saves penalty with his head to win Ballie Cup. Unintentional so constitutes as a save and not a foul,"
Pretty regular, deliberate occurrence back then but outlawed more recently due to the obvious safety implications. I played in the Shinty/Hurling international in the 80's and moved from full back into goal in the second half after our goalie did just that.
You played in that? That’s bloody impressive!
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:43 pm
by I like neeps
mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:29 pm
This explains why McLean wasn't selected
Wonder why they didn't suspend him after the arrest? Or the guilty plea in December. The details are horrendous. What a c*nt.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:59 pm
"Kinlochshiel keeper (Graham Kennedy) saves penalty with his head to win Ballie Cup. Unintentional so constitutes as a save and not a foul,"
Pretty regular, deliberate occurrence back then but outlawed more recently due to the obvious safety implications. I played in the Shinty/Hurling international in the 80's and moved from full back into goal in the second half after our goalie did just that.
You played in that? That’s bloody impressive!
First one after it was suspended for about 15 years due to the troubles. Mainly under 21 players. They totally screwed up the composite rules and we got annihilated. They took a few years to sort it but shinty eventually became more competitive against the hurlers
Pretty regular, deliberate occurrence back then but outlawed more recently due to the obvious safety implications. I played in the Shinty/Hurling international in the 80's and moved from full back into goal in the second half after our goalie did just that.
You played in that? That’s bloody impressive!
First one after it was suspended for about 15 years due to the troubles. Mainly under 21 players. They totally screwed up the composite rules and we got annihilated. They took a few years to sort it but shinty eventually became more competitive against the hurlers
Where did you play in your youth?
Are there you laces to go and watch a game around Edinburgh?
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:59 pm
"Kinlochshiel keeper (Graham Kennedy) saves penalty with his head to win Ballie Cup. Unintentional so constitutes as a save and not a foul,"
Pretty regular, deliberate occurrence back then but outlawed more recently due to the obvious safety implications. I played in the Shinty/Hurling international in the 80's and moved from full back into goal in the second half after our goalie did just that.
That's good going. I watched a couple of those games on tv.
It's a bit pretentious because I've never played, but when I'm back home I look through the junk shops for an old caman, just to hang on the wall.
I've still not found one.
mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:29 pm
This explains why McLean wasn't selected
Wonder why they didn't suspend him after the arrest? Or the guilty plea in December. The details are horrendous. What a c*nt.
Or when the police started being "alerted" to incidents years ago. Someone at the Warriors would have known.
Scumbag. Has to be sacked.
I think it's possible that the police didn't share with his employer - why would they? And McLean didn't tell the club when he was charged - why would he? And as rugby is just not a popular sport in Scotland like football the police or a tout aren't tipping off the press about an arrest like that would if it was a footballer.
But knowing there's a guilty plea and sitting on it is quite something. Maybe they wanted to protect the woman involved but not a good look if they waited to see if he'd face criminal liability.
weegie01 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:06 pm
It is quite interesting that on their site almost all the Munster fans are wishing Healy well, and totally understand his decision.
I think fans understand that a player only has a limited time in their career, & at any time they could get an injury, & that's that.
Ask them about what it says about the way the SRU is running the game, & you'll get a distinctly less sympathatic reaction.
The rule change was to help the PI nations to recover some of the players they lose to NZ, Oz & France etc; not to help a Tier 1 Country that can't setup it's own pathways.
That rule doesn't apply in Healy's case though, or am I misunderstanding how you structured that post?
I'm in two minds about the change of nation rule being exploited by Tier 1 nations, on the one hand I'm fully committed to the idea of freedom of movement for work, on the other it's a pretty cynical abuse of a rule that was designed to help the PI nations, as you say, and it's bollocks for Scotland to be doing it.
Dempsey has been very good, excellent, for Glasgow, but he shouldn't be playing for Scotland. I don't buy the idea that everyone else would do it so we should.
Having said all that, I think Isa Nacewa will be mightily pissed off with the timing of it all.
First one after it was suspended for about 15 years due to the troubles. Mainly under 21 players. They totally screwed up the composite rules and we got annihilated. They took a few years to sort it but shinty eventually became more competitive against the hurlers
Where did you play in your youth?
Are there you laces to go and watch a game around Edinburgh?
I played for my village, Muir of Ord as a junior. They were a pretty dominant junior side back then and regularly matched up to the likes of Kingussie and Newtonmore, but sadly I don't think they have a side any more. They didn't have a senior side so I moved to Beauly aged 17.
I'm not sure if Edinburgh university still put out a side. I did a bit of coaching for them when I first moved to Edinburgh to join the police. They were very keen and there were a couple of lads from up north who played at a very good standard.
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:59 pm
"Kinlochshiel keeper (Graham Kennedy) saves penalty with his head to win Ballie Cup. Unintentional so constitutes as a save and not a foul,"
Pretty regular, deliberate occurrence back then but outlawed more recently due to the obvious safety implications. I played in the Shinty/Hurling international in the 80's and moved from full back into goal in the second half after our goalie did just that.
That's good going. I watched a couple of those games on tv.
It's a bit pretentious because I've never played, but when I'm back home I look through the junk shops for an old caman, just to hang on the wall.
I've still not found one.
I threw out half a dozen old ones when my parents died. Incredibly robust bits of kit but back in my day a couple of clowns were found out trying to make them more robust by channelling out the backs and filling them with lead. .
Wonder why they didn't suspend him after the arrest? Or the guilty plea in December. The details are horrendous. What a c*nt.
Or when the police started being "alerted" to incidents years ago. Someone at the Warriors would have known.
Scumbag. Has to be sacked.
I think it's possible that the police didn't share with his employer - why would they? And McLean didn't tell the club when he was charged - why would he? And as rugby is just not a popular sport in Scotland like football the police or a tout aren't tipping off the press about an arrest like that would if it was a footballer.
But knowing there's a guilty plea and sitting on it is quite something. Maybe they wanted to protect the woman involved but not a good look if they waited to see if he'd face criminal liability.
Sounds like they immediately suspended him in December when he plead guilty and today's hearing was a sentancing
Or when the police started being "alerted" to incidents years ago. Someone at the Warriors would have known.
Scumbag. Has to be sacked.
I think it's possible that the police didn't share with his employer - why would they? And McLean didn't tell the club when he was charged - why would he? And as rugby is just not a popular sport in Scotland like football the police or a tout aren't tipping off the press about an arrest like that would if it was a footballer.
But knowing there's a guilty plea and sitting on it is quite something. Maybe they wanted to protect the woman involved but not a good look if they waited to see if he'd face criminal liability.
Sounds like they immediately suspended him in December when he plead guilty and today's hearing was a sentancing
Cheeky prick of a defence agent asking for an absolute discharge. Not a chance in hell.
Wonder why they didn't suspend him after the arrest? Or the guilty plea in December. The details are horrendous. What a c*nt.
Or when the police started being "alerted" to incidents years ago. Someone at the Warriors would have known.
Scumbag. Has to be sacked.
I think it's possible that the police didn't share with his employer - why would they? And McLean didn't tell the club when he was charged - why would he? And as rugby is just not a popular sport in Scotland like football the police or a tout aren't tipping off the press about an arrest like that would if it was a footballer.
But knowing there's a guilty plea and sitting on it is quite something. Maybe they wanted to protect the woman involved but not a good look if they waited to see if he'd face criminal liability.
Because word leaks out. People speak. There will be a player or official who knew something between that point and before he was charged.
I would bet a quid that they knew when they selected him in December.
Or when the police started being "alerted" to incidents years ago. Someone at the Warriors would have known.
Scumbag. Has to be sacked.
I think it's possible that the police didn't share with his employer - why would they? And McLean didn't tell the club when he was charged - why would he? And as rugby is just not a popular sport in Scotland like football the police or a tout aren't tipping off the press about an arrest like that would if it was a footballer.
But knowing there's a guilty plea and sitting on it is quite something. Maybe they wanted to protect the woman involved but not a good look if they waited to see if he'd face criminal liability.
Because word leaks out. People speak. There will be a player or official who knew something between that point and before he was charged.
I would bet a quid that they knew when they selected him in December.
I can see a world in which officials didn't know. I agree it's likely some players had friends of friends but if you look at cases of domestic abuse and sexual violence across sports players never say much about a teammate who has been charged/accused etc. So I'd not be surprised if they didn't tell their boss.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2023 10:54 pm
by fishfoodie
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:32 pm
It was the reason I didn't take up rugby until I joined the forces. Playing shinty back then was everything and you would have been ridiculed for playing rugby as it was considered a sport for "posh poofs".
Safety has seriously improved since those days because it was just bloody violent. The New Year's Day derby between Lovat and Beauly was terrifying with all of the players still pissed from the night before and regularly topping up during the game.
I can relate; my first concussion came at about age 10, when someone rung my bell in a hurling match, by mistaking my head for the sliotar.
Luckily I was wearing a helmet, or I was off to A&E with a fractured skull, but the GAA had brought in mandatory use of helmets of underage players in the previous year, & while they were far from perfect, they did spread the force out, so head injuries were much reduced in severity.
You still end up with a ridiculous number of injuries; as you'd expect where 30x club yielding males are fighting over possession of a small ball.
As a matter of interest; is Shinty played by women too ?
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:32 pm
It was the reason I didn't take up rugby until I joined the forces. Playing shinty back then was everything and you would have been ridiculed for playing rugby as it was considered a sport for "posh poofs".
Safety has seriously improved since those days because it was just bloody violent. The New Year's Day derby between Lovat and Beauly was terrifying with all of the players still pissed from the night before and regularly topping up during the game.
I can relate; my first concussion came at about age 10, when someone rung my bell in a hurling match, by mistaking my head for the sliotar.
Luckily I was wearing a helmet, or I was off to A&E with a fractured skull, but the GAA had brought in mandatory use of helmets of underage players in the previous year, & while they were far from perfect, they did spread the force out, so head injuries were much reduced in severity.
You still end up with a ridiculous number of injuries; as you'd expect where 30x club yielding males are fighting over possession of a small ball.
As a matter of interest; is Shinty played by women too ?
Not when I played as a student, but they do now. I couldn't tell you how long for though.
First one after it was suspended for about 15 years due to the troubles. Mainly under 21 players. They totally screwed up the composite rules and we got annihilated. They took a few years to sort it but shinty eventually became more competitive against the hurlers
Where did you play in your youth?
Are there you laces to go and watch a game around Edinburgh?
I played for my village, Muir of Ord as a junior. They were a pretty dominant junior side back then and regularly matched up to the likes of Kingussie and Newtonmore, but sadly I don't think they have a side any more. They didn't have a senior side so I moved to Beauly aged 17.
I'm not sure if Edinburgh university still put out a side. I did a bit of coaching for them when I first moved to Edinburgh to join the police. They were very keen and there were a couple of lads from up north who played at a very good standard.
It was Edinburgh uni I played for (just a couple of seasons). There were a few teuchters in the team who knew what they were doing, plus an American ice hockey player, a mad German and a proper cockney. Goodness knows what the teams in Furnace & Dalmally etc thought of us!
Blackmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:32 pm
It was the reason I didn't take up rugby until I joined the forces. Playing shinty back then was everything and you would have been ridiculed for playing rugby as it was considered a sport for "posh poofs".
Safety has seriously improved since those days because it was just bloody violent. The New Year's Day derby between Lovat and Beauly was terrifying with all of the players still pissed from the night before and regularly topping up during the game.
I can relate; my first concussion came at about age 10, when someone rung my bell in a hurling match, by mistaking my head for the sliotar.
Luckily I was wearing a helmet, or I was off to A&E with a fractured skull, but the GAA had brought in mandatory use of helmets of underage players in the previous year, & while they were far from perfect, they did spread the force out, so head injuries were much reduced in severity.
You still end up with a ridiculous number of injuries; as you'd expect where 30x club yielding males are fighting over possession of a small ball.
As a matter of interest; is Shinty played by women too ?
Not when I played as a student, but they do now. I couldn't tell you how long for though.
One of the stories I remember about when Jack Charlton was the Irish Soccer manager, was one about when a senior RTE reporter got an interview with the new Manager, in a car on their way down to Ballina, where Jack had a house, so he could go fishing.
On the way down, they passed a Camogie match, & Jack asked the reporter what it was, & he was told it was the girls/womens equivalent of Hurling, & some of the details. Jack immediately pulled off the road, & into the club car park, & they both got out so Jack could watch the remainder of the match, before the finished off the journey.
He was hooked; I don't think he'd ever seen women play a game as physical as camogie, & I think as a sportsman, he appreciated the skills & training reguired, & there are a number of accounts of him attending Camogie matches whenever possible.
The GAA were leaders in having womens games, in parallel with the mens versions (albeit with slightly modified rules), & it's great that Rugby is doing the same, & broadening the access to the game, because one of the reasons why our children are overweight, is that teenage girls drop out of sports earlier, & more often than boys, so it's really important to give girls access to sports that have places for all sizes, like Rugby !
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:42 am
by westport
Edinburgh Rugby
4 m · Hooker Dave Cherry puts pen-to-paper on a new two-year deal having this week been named in Scotland's Six Nations squad.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:45 am
by Jock42
Is it confirmed that rambo is off at the end of the season or is it just rumour?
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:54 am
by Tichtheid
Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 10:45 am
Is it confirmed that rambo is off at the end of the season or is it just rumour?
Just rumour at the moment, but the injuries are a concern. He missed the AIs, came back and got injured very early against Castes at home and hasn't played since.
I watched a couple of those games on tv.
Hooker Dave Cherry puts pen-to-paper on a new two-year deal having this week been named in Scotland's Six Nations squad.