The Official English Rugby Thread

[ASMO]

Earl's form is superb and his biggest problem is that he would absolutely tear it up if England were given the chance to play the sort of rugby that he (and Smith, JVP, etc etc) are best at. That isn't going to happen so more leaden-footed bashers are the order of the day. It's a real shame, he's worked hard to improve his game and it absolutely should be rewarded.

Anyway. England: Porter missed his first two tackles and got stripped in contact as his first 3 involvements and I was raging. He then did okay and his 2nd try was good pace. He did nothing to suggest he's better than an honest pro but he was at least a positive this time round.

I will admit I was a) fucking knackered and b) slightly bored and distracted so didn't watch the game too closely at times. It felt like we did a physical number on Japan which is great but we all know that has limited application elsewhere. Despite all the points we scored I feel like ours was the least impressive of the NH performances this weekend.

It just felt like one of the many wins over smaller teams we had from 2004-2015. The physicality was there and some highlights from our more gifted players, but there was no real challenge to us and we never looked like we were playing with serious intensity or cohesion. We could play like that against any of the top 5 teams and get a kicking.

To be honest, Japan were not much more than opposed training for England, they really brought nothing to the game. I would suggest it is a bit too early for people to be wanking over the performance and how they have turned it around until they play a proper team i.e. New Zealand and South Africa

[inactionman]

Barbeary has signed for Bath, still a few weeks from full fitness
Umaga has signed a 2 year contract at Benetton

Will make an interesting back row with Hill and Underhill. Wonder what the arrival of Barbeary and Hill will mean for the likes of Miles Reid, Tom Ellis and Josh Bayliss who are all emerging backrow at the club.

[duke]

Barbeary has signed for Bath, still a few weeks from full fitness
Umaga has signed a 2 year contract at Benetton

Will make an interesting back row with Hill and Underhill. Wonder what the arrival of Barbeary and Hill will mean for the likes of Miles Reid, Tom Ellis and Josh Bayliss who are all emerging backrow at the club.

Not sure Tom Ellis can be looked at as emerging - he's 28 and has been around since 2014. There's bound to be a clear out at the end of the season and I reckon they'll lose Ellis and Bayliss (as he's Scots qualified) and keep Reid, especially as there must be doubts about the durability of Underhill.

[inactionman]

Barbeary has signed for Bath, still a few weeks from full fitness
Umaga has signed a 2 year contract at Benetton

Will make an interesting back row with Hill and Underhill. Wonder what the arrival of Barbeary and Hill will mean for the likes of Miles Reid, Tom Ellis and Josh Bayliss who are all emerging backrow at the club.

Not sure Tom Ellis can be looked at as emerging - he's 28 and has been around since 2014. There's bound to be a clear out at the end of the season and I reckon they'll lose Ellis and Bayliss (as he's Scots qualified) and keep Reid, especially as there must be doubts about the durability of Underhill.

I meant that these are the ones who have emerged into the roles, although Ellis also features as a lock. None of them are exactly rookies, Bayliss is 25 and Reid is 24 so all should be solidifying their first team credentials. I appreciate Hill and Barbeary are both opportunity targets rather than anything longer-term planned, but it's a confusing message for the incumbents, to say the least. I suppose a lot will hinge on contract length.

I've heard rumblings about Bayliss moving but nothing I'd hang hat on.

[JM2K6]

Will make an interesting back row with Hill and Underhill. Wonder what the arrival of Barbeary and Hill will mean for the likes of Miles Reid, Tom Ellis and Josh Bayliss who are all emerging backrow at the club.

Not sure Tom Ellis can be looked at as emerging - he's 28 and has been around since 2014. There's bound to be a clear out at the end of the season and I reckon they'll lose Ellis and Bayliss (as he's Scots qualified) and keep Reid, especially as there must be doubts about the durability of Underhill.

I meant that these are the ones who have emerged into the roles, although Ellis also features as a lock. None of them are exactly rookies, Bayliss is 25 and Reid is 24 so all should be solidifying their first team credentials. I appreciate Hill and Barbeary are both opportunity targets rather than anything longer-term planned, but it's a confusing message for the incumbents, to say the least. I suppose a lot will hinge on contract length.

I've heard rumblings about Bayliss moving but nothing I'd hang hat on.

I would've thought the message was "we've signed someone who is a lot better than you, if he can stay fit"

Has Hill signed long-term?

[inactionman]

Not sure Tom Ellis can be looked at as emerging - he's 28 and has been around since 2014. There's bound to be a clear out at the end of the season and I reckon they'll lose Ellis and Bayliss (as he's Scots qualified) and keep Reid, especially as there must be doubts about the durability of Underhill.

I meant that these are the ones who have emerged into the roles, although Ellis also features as a lock. None of them are exactly rookies, Bayliss is 25 and Reid is 24 so all should be solidifying their first team credentials. I appreciate Hill and Barbeary are both opportunity targets rather than anything longer-term planned, but it's a confusing message for the incumbents, to say the least. I suppose a lot will hinge on contract length.

I've heard rumblings about Bayliss moving but nothing I'd hang hat on.

I would've thought the message was "we've signed someone who is a lot better than you, if he can stay fit"

Has Hill signed long-term?

We did that with Zach Mercer and Ollie Devoto, didn't end so well.

[Slick]

Out of interest, is there much coverage on the upcoming footie World Cup in England?

We are obviously not going, but I’m still quite surprised at the almost zero chat anywhere up here

[Paddington Bear]

Out of interest, is there much coverage on the upcoming footie World Cup in England?

We are obviously not going, but I’m still quite surprised at the almost zero chat anywhere up here

Very little tbh. We all suspend disbelief and hypocrisy when it comes to sport to a greater or lesser extent but I sense that collectively we see that this being in Qatar is fully taking the piss. Suspect that would change if we got to the latter stages to some extent but I don’t think most of us are expecting tonnes and there’s a very good chance the whole thing descends into farce by then anyway.

[sockwithaticket]

J. Willis off Toulouse for the remainder of the season apparently.

Launchbury is due for a stint in Japan for their 2023 Top League season, then he'll come back and join Quins for next season.

[sockwithaticket]

Out of interest, is there much coverage on the upcoming footie World Cup in England?

We are obviously not going, but I’m still quite surprised at the almost zero chat anywhere up here

I have zero interest in football, so my only interaction with a major tournament is via adverts when I'm using a service that still has them like All 4 or ITV player. Thus far it feels like there's basically been nothing advertising that it's going on or any related offers for booze, food, etc.

[SaintK]

Uh oh!!!

French referee Mathieu Raynal is suddenly enjoying an unscheduled very busy November as he has followed his late appointment for last Saturday’s Ireland versus Fiji game in Dublin by now getting handed the whistle for England versus the All Blacks after Australian Nic Berry pulled out of the game on Tuesday.
A statement read: “World Rugby has confirmed changes to the match official appointments for England vs New Zealand and Romania vs Samoa on November 19 and France vs Japan on November 29. Mathieu Raynal (France) will now referee the England vs New Zealand match at Twickenham in the Autumn Nations Series on November 19. Raynal replaces Nic Berry (Australia), who has returned home for personal reasons.

[inactionman]

Uh oh!!!

French referee Mathieu Raynal is suddenly enjoying an unscheduled very busy November as he has followed his late appointment for last Saturday’s Ireland versus Fiji game in Dublin by now getting handed the whistle for England versus the All Blacks after Australian Nic Berry pulled out of the game on Tuesday.
A statement read: “World Rugby has confirmed changes to the match official appointments for England vs New Zealand and Romania vs Samoa on November 19 and France vs Japan on November 29. Mathieu Raynal (France) will now referee the England vs New Zealand match at Twickenham in the Autumn Nations Series on November 19. Raynal replaces Nic Berry (Australia), who has returned home for personal reasons.

Every time I read the name Nic Berry I get the tune to 'Every Loser Wins' buzzing round my head.

Damn you, Saint. It's awful.

[Paddington Bear]

I was talking to a couple of guys yesterday on rugby club committees - they were saying the rumour is the RFU are floating with county boards etc making all rugby below a certain unspecified level non-contact. Both of these guys are well connected and not notorious for bullshitting, but this seems a little unlikely, anyone else heard anything?

[SaintK]

I was talking to a couple of guys yesterday on rugby club committees - they were saying the rumour is the RFU are floating with county boards etc making all rugby below a certain unspecified level non-contact. Both of these guys are well connected and not notorious for bullshitting, but this seems a little unlikely, anyone else heard anything?

My mate is an ex president of Herts CB and is still our club's county rep. He's pretty close to what's going on and he hasn't mentioned anything over our regular Sunday beers.
I'll text him later and ask.

[sockwithaticket]

The 25 man squad:



Pleasantly surprised to see Freeman retained ahead of Cokanasiga. I suspect either he or Porter will be cut for the final 23.

Stuart straight in ahead of Heyes. Mako still there because...?

[Madness]

From that 25 squad I'd pick

Genge
George
Sinks
Maro
Hill
Curry
Willis
Simmonds
JVP
Farrell
Freeman
Manu
Slade
May
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Ribbans, Billy, Youngs, Smith, Nowell

Mad Eddie will pick some bat shit combo and we will end up with a back 3 of Steward, Nowell and Manu and at least 4 No 6s in the back 5

[Raggs]

I was talking to a couple of guys yesterday on rugby club committees - they were saying the rumour is the RFU are floating with county boards etc making all rugby below a certain unspecified level non-contact. Both of these guys are well connected and not notorious for bullshitting, but this seems a little unlikely, anyone else heard anything?

I believe there's an intention of forcing/coercing etc all clubs to run a touch side, but I don't believe it's to replace the main side, but rather as an additional.

[Slick]

Out of interest, is there much coverage on the upcoming footie World Cup in England?

We are obviously not going, but I’m still quite surprised at the almost zero chat anywhere up here

Very little tbh. We all suspend disbelief and hypocrisy when it comes to sport to a greater or lesser extent but I sense that collectively we see that this being in Qatar is fully taking the piss. Suspect that would change if we got to the latter stages to some extent but I don’t think most of us are expecting tonnes and there’s a very good chance the whole thing descends into farce by then anyway.

Yeah, that’s pretty much what I thought was happening everywhere.

I’ve been watching the FIFA thing on Netflix and the Qataris are a very convincing bunch of liars

[Tichtheid]

I was talking to a couple of guys yesterday on rugby club committees - they were saying the rumour is the RFU are floating with county boards etc making all rugby below a certain unspecified level non-contact. Both of these guys are well connected and not notorious for bullshitting, but this seems a little unlikely, anyone else heard anything?

I believe there's an intention of forcing/coercing etc all clubs to run a touch side, but I don't believe it's to replace the main side, but rather as an additional.

It's an interesting proposition, though. My first taste of rugby was in my final year of primary school. We had one primary and one secondary school, the surrounding farm kids went to village schools with all years in the one class before they came to the secondary.

I remember playing two games against kids from other schools in the county in that year before we went up.

If the game we'd played had been non-contact, or minimal contact, I wager a lot more of our cohort would have stayed with the sport.

For myself I went from being a piss poor centre half/sweeper in the primary school football team to being allowed to knock people on their arses by running at them and dipping the shoulder, what could possibly be a better sport than that?

[Raggs]

I was talking to a couple of guys yesterday on rugby club committees - they were saying the rumour is the RFU are floating with county boards etc making all rugby below a certain unspecified level non-contact. Both of these guys are well connected and not notorious for bullshitting, but this seems a little unlikely, anyone else heard anything?

I believe there's an intention of forcing/coercing etc all clubs to run a touch side, but I don't believe it's to replace the main side, but rather as an additional.

It's an interesting proposition, though. My first taste of rugby was in my final year of primary school. We had one primary and one secondary school, the surrounding farm kids went to village schools with all years in the one class before they came to the secondary.

I remember playing two games against kids from other schools in the county in that year before we went up.

If the game we'd played had been non-contact, or minimal contact, I wager a lot more of our cohort would have stayed with the sport.

For myself I went from being a piss poor centre half/sweeper in the primary school football team to being allowed to knock people on their arses by running at them and dipping the shoulder, what could possibly be a better sport than that?

I've had a couple of new players join my u11s recently due to the schools touch tournament that's been run. I know other age groups have got a few too. The problem is though, touch still tends to be dominated by those that would excel at football, rather than the more diverse body shapes were after in rugby. Definitely not a bad idea though, and the more the merrier!

[sockwithaticket]

Italy starting to be a bit of a Wasps and Worcester bolthole. Umaga's off there now, Odogwu will join him next season and Kvesic is about to head for the rest of this season.

[robmatic]

Italy starting to be a bit of a Wasps and Worcester bolthole. Umaga's off there now, Odogwu will join him next season and Kvesic is about to head for the rest of this season.

Odogwu will be getting to play international rugby then.

[Hal Jordan]

From that 25 squad I'd pick

Genge
George
Sinks
Maro
Hill
Curry
Willis
Simmonds
JVP
Farrell
Freeman
Manu
Slade
May
Steward

Mako, LCD, Stuart, Ribbans, Billy, Youngs, Smith, Nowell

Mad Eddie will pick some bat shit combo and we will end up with a back 3 of Steward, Nowell and Manu and at least 4 No 6s in the back 5

He'll pick exactly the same team that lined up against Argentina I shouldn't wonder. Maybe Ribbans will start. He'll flog Itoje for another 80, come what may.

Big Match Ben, Hard Working Nowellsy, they're Test match animals.

[sockwithaticket]

Team named.



Actually a better selection than I anticipated (within the limitations of the squad).

Backs on the bench are definitely far from ideal.

[Paddington Bear]

Yep about the most we could expect really.

[Oxbow]

Pack looks better, still not a fan of that backline.

[inactionman]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

[sockwithaticket]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

Slade only plays fullback every now and then for England, Eddie may consider that sufficient cover, but I really hope we don't have to resort to it. Porter's played wing for Tigers more recently and more frequently.

[mos_eisely_]

Slade and Freeman would be better backs cover

[Paddington Bear]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

Slade only plays fullback every now and then for England, Eddie may consider that sufficient cover, but I really hope we don't have to resort to it. Porter's played wing for Tigers more recently and more frequently.

The Telegraph has been suggesting that Slade has been playing a lot more at 15 in reality than his shirt number would suggest.

[sockwithaticket]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

Slade only plays fullback every now and then for England, Eddie may consider that sufficient cover, but I really hope we don't have to resort to it. Porter's played wing for Tigers more recently and more frequently.

The Telegraph has been suggesting that Slade has been playing a lot more at 15 in reality than his shirt number would suggest.

This series or in general with England? Can't say I've noticed it particularly, but then he hasn't had an awful lot of pitch time.

[inactionman]

Slade and Freeman would be better backs cover

Yep, Slade and a pacey back 3 player would be a good bet.

[SaintK]

Parton moving on from L Irish to Saracens for next season

Saracens have confirmed the signing of Tom Parton from London Irish for the 2023/24 season. The 24-year-old England prospect, who was part of some national team training squads in the lead-up to the summer tour to Australia, has made more than 70 appearances for the Exiles. “I’m really excited about this new challenge,” he said.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/tom-par ... acens/

[Slick]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

Never in his entire pro career

[inactionman]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

Never in his entire pro career

What better time to try it out than against the All Blacks.

[sockwithaticket]

T. Willis confirmed to Bordeaux for the remainder of the season.

[fishfoodie]

Parton moving on from L Irish to Saracens for next season

Saracens have confirmed the signing of Tom Parton from London Irish for the 2023/24 season. The 24-year-old England prospect, who was part of some national team training squads in the lead-up to the summer tour to Australia, has made more than 70 appearances for the Exiles. “I’m really excited about this new challenge,” he said.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/tom-par ... acens/

Not-Nots are losing a few valuable players next season; would I be wrong in drawing a link between this, & their iffy financial position ?

[Raggs]

I'm a bit confused with having Porter and Slade both on the bench, even given Slade's ability to cover 15.

Has Simmonds played much at blindside?

Never in his entire pro career

I'm sure he'll be able to break off the scrum in defence just fine.

[JM2K6]

Parton moving on from L Irish to Saracens for next season

Saracens have confirmed the signing of Tom Parton from London Irish for the 2023/24 season. The 24-year-old England prospect, who was part of some national team training squads in the lead-up to the summer tour to Australia, has made more than 70 appearances for the Exiles. “I’m really excited about this new challenge,” he said.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/tom-par ... acens/

Not-Nots are losing a few valuable players next season; would I be wrong in drawing a link between this, & their iffy financial position ?

Always difficult to compare with Saracens tbf. Arundell is the 15 they want to keep, so this could just as much be about Parton knowing he's going to be 2nd choice very soon. Presumably Goode will retire after next season. Who have Irish lost except Rona? They've got a bumper crop of young talent to keep hold of and they'll probably have to pay a bit over the odds to do so.

[Margin__Walker]

Shame to see him leave, but of the guys rumoured to be possibly out the door, he's the one whose departure would have the least impact on the team. Think he'll do well at Sarries, but Arundell's the man with the shirt and you'd probably want a slightly cheaper backup than Parton may be able to land elsewhere.

Looks like OHC is Leicester bound. That's the one that will leave a real hole.

Hard to say on finances. We're fine as long as Crossan is picking up the tab. Clearly if money was no object we'd have picked up a few from Worcester/Wasps. May be that the Rona caps space has gone to cover the loss of revenue from cancelled games (we were due to play Wasps twice at home this month)