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Jesus suffering Christ.I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:26 pm 82-7 to Ireland.
A dark day for Scottish rugby, blimey!
He’s a fair way off a full cap given the players we have available but with Brown, McInally and Cherry all near the end of their careers there is likely a spot opening up beside Turner and Ashman. Harrison is very good though as is Blyth-Lafferty plus the likes of Jake Kerr are still kicking around too.
We don't have pathways that are fit for purpose sadly. There's only about 4 good clubs, and 4 good schools in the country.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:46 pmJesus suffering Christ.I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:26 pm 82-7 to Ireland.
A dark day for Scottish rugby, blimey!
How have we fallen so far behind?
Cheers, I don't really know much about the depth of Scottish hookers. I've been really impressed with him and see he's only 23, so plenty of time yet. One to keep an eye on.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:50 pmHe’s a fair way off a full cap given the players we have available but with Brown, McInally and Cherry all near the end of their careers there is likely a spot opening up beside Turner and Ashman. Harrison is very good though as is Blyth-Lafferty plus the likes of Jake Kerr are still kicking around too.
That’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:57 pmWe have have always been like that in terms of how serious the rugby schools take it all but the difference is probably a bit societal as well. Kids looking forward to getting their gym membership as a right of passage at 16 is widespread. Drinking falling off a cliff in that age group. I was in the club gym tonight and it was and is usually a load of under 18's willing each other on at 21.00 on a Friday. Let's be clear I wasn't fucking doing that nor was anyone else 30 years agoTichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:11 pmKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:33 pm
It’s point a minute at the moment.
They weren’t always this bad, there was a period from around 2015 until they were relegated from the world division that they largely held their own. It seems to have fallen apart since then, although maybe Ireland are a poor yardstick to measure against given how insane their system seems to be at the moment.
The school system in Dublin seems to be pretty much fully professional in all but the players getting paid.
We are a long way off that, there is still a huge divide between the public schools and state schools in Scotland
These sort of results are not good for the laddies, but I'm not sure what we can do about it, we can't not play these fixtures
Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).
OK, but 4.1m of them don’t know what rugby isKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:09 amGiven Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).
Aye Dublin don't have two cultural phenomenons identifying as football clubs sucking all the life from all sports in the city.Slick wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:13 amOK, but 4.1m of them don’t know what rugby isKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:09 amGiven Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).
My nephew is 15 and plays for Penicuik. He is decent and has been picked for the SRU u16 programme.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:03 amThat’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:57 pmWe have have always been like that in terms of how serious the rugby schools take it all but the difference is probably a bit societal as well. Kids looking forward to getting their gym membership as a right of passage at 16 is widespread. Drinking falling off a cliff in that age group. I was in the club gym tonight and it was and is usually a load of under 18's willing each other on at 21.00 on a Friday. Let's be clear I wasn't fucking doing that nor was anyone else 30 years agoTichtheid wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:11 pm
The school system in Dublin seems to be pretty much fully professional in all but the players getting paid.
We are a long way off that, there is still a huge divide between the public schools and state schools in Scotland
These sort of results are not good for the laddies, but I'm not sure what we can do about it, we can't not play these fixtures
There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.
Are those numbers for Penicuik teams or them and the opposition combined?Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:37 amMy nephew is 15 and plays for Penicuik. He is decent and has been picked for the SRU u16 programme.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:03 amThat’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:57 pm
We have have always been like that in terms of how serious the rugby schools take it all but the difference is probably a bit societal as well. Kids looking forward to getting their gym membership as a right of passage at 16 is widespread. Drinking falling off a cliff in that age group. I was in the club gym tonight and it was and is usually a load of under 18's willing each other on at 21.00 on a Friday. Let's be clear I wasn't fucking doing that nor was anyone else 30 years ago
There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.
Two weeks ago they played Lasswade and both teams could only muster 26 between them. Last week they were at North Berwick and is was 23. He is rightly getting totally demoralised. Penicuik don't even field an u18 side so I have put some feelers out to move him to Boroughmuir which is going to cause me a lot of work as his divorced parents are totally uninterested and it is myself and his grandad that drive him about.
When you think that Penicuik is one of the largest towns south of Edinburgh it is a sorry state of affairs.
5KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:09 amGiven Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).
So do we all.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:08 am I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.
I really, really hope I am wrong.
I know, see my previous post RE lifestyles.I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:56 amAye Dublin don't have two cultural phenomenons identifying as football clubs sucking all the life from all sports in the city.Slick wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:13 amOK, but 4.1m of them don’t know what rugby isKingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:09 am
Given Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).
So presumably ‘only’ 15 came through the Leinster system then?Hellraiser wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:45 pm5KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:09 amGiven Hansen, Aki and Lowe are IQ in various ways that means only 3 of their 23 were developed in the other provinces. It again reinforces that the SRU should be putting a massive priority on understanding how Leinster have done it and attempting to replicate it. Leinster have effectively built the number one international team in world rugby from an area with a population half the size of the central belt (2.8m vs 4.2m).
Me too. After such a bright start to the tournament I'm now expecting us to somehow end up 4th, even if we beat Italy (I've not worked out the maths to see if this is possible, I'm just assuming it is).GogLais wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:07 pmSo do we all.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:08 am I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.
I really, really hope I am wrong.
Combined. Penicuik fielded 12 and North Berwick 11. I was totally shocked as well because I know they are a well run club, as are Penicuik. Lasswade the same. When Penicuik are at the full strength they are quite good but it appears that players will not turn up at the drop of a hat with little or no warning.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:44 amAre those numbers for Penicuik teams or them and the opposition combined?Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:37 amMy nephew is 15 and plays for Penicuik. He is decent and has been picked for the SRU u16 programme.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:03 am
That’s a big trend here too. I would estimate 50%+ of our office juniors don’t drink for instance and they are all built like brick shithouses. The difference I guess is that in Ireland (or at least in Dublin) they all play rugby too which isn’t the case here.
There are 6 big fee paying schools in Edinburgh (Heriots’s, Merchie, Fettes, Watsons, Edinburgh Academy and Stew Mel). On top of these Boroughmuir and Royal High are good rugby state schools with very strong club connections. That should be plenty to have a mini Leinster/Dublin system and of course there are schools/clubs in the borders, Glasgow and Perthshire too that are within an hour or so of Edinburgh. The mass is there to do something, it just needs more joined up thinking to make it work.
Two weeks ago they played Lasswade and both teams could only muster 26 between them. Last week they were at North Berwick and is was 23. He is rightly getting totally demoralised. Penicuik don't even field an u18 side so I have put some feelers out to move him to Boroughmuir which is going to cause me a lot of work as his divorced parents are totally uninterested and it is myself and his grandad that drive him about.
When you think that Penicuik is one of the largest towns south of Edinburgh it is a sorry state of affairs.
I'd be very surprised if that is the case at North Berwick
Yeah, must say the old feelings of dread are coming back after a nice breakS/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:11 pmMe too. After such a bright start to the tournament I'm now expecting us to somehow end up 4th, even if we beat Italy (I've not worked out the maths to see if this is possible, I'm just assuming it is).GogLais wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:07 pmSo do we all.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:08 am I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.
I really, really hope I am wrong.
Mistakenly opened the "Depression, Anxiety and Suicidal" thread thinking it was the English Rugby Thead.SomersetJock wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:11 pm I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!
I feel we might be going to find out tomorrow that the reality of team quality in the tournament is:Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:44 pmMistakenly opened the "Depression, Anxiety and Suicidal" thread thinking it was the English Rugby Thead.SomersetJock wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:11 pm I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!
I can't see us ending up fourth this year.
France really took England apart
We should take some heart that we pushed France really close ( in Paris )
Only possible if England win away against Ireland in Round 5.S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:11 pmMe too. After such a bright start to the tournament I'm now expecting us to somehow end up 4th, even if we beat Italy (I've not worked out the maths to see if this is possible, I'm just assuming it is).GogLais wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:07 pmSo do we all.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 1:08 am I’m starting to get a really sick feeling about Sunday. I expect a defeat, but I’m starting to fear a hammering. I know this is partly down to that awful U20 game, but none of our players seem to have a clue how to play against any Irish side. I bet we concede a try within 5 minutes of the start - we always seem to give decent teams a gimme. After that it could get ugly.
I really, really hope I am wrong.
I'd be tempted to say there might be a developing gap between us and England. They're fucking shit.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:27 pmI feel we might be going to find out tomorrow that the reality of team quality in the tournament is:Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:44 pmMistakenly opened the "Depression, Anxiety and Suicidal" thread thinking it was the English Rugby Thead.SomersetJock wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:11 pm I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve said “FFS Sco-Taly in the last 80 mins !!!
I can't see us ending up fourth this year.
France really took England apart
We should take some heart that we pushed France really close ( in Paris )
Ireland
- gap -
France
- gap -
- gap -
- gap -
Scotland
England
- gap -
Wales
- gap -
Italy
We did well against France but they played badly and when they had spurts of good play against us it was like a hot knife through butter.
Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:41 pm The thing about England is this: they have so many players, if they don’t like their team, then they could replace every player in it 3-4 times over without becoming noticeably worse. Which means that although they will have slumps like they are having at the moment, they’ll always be able to bounce back.
Tomorrow is a real crunch game for us. I don’t see much hope of winning, but if we can put up a good fight and run them reasonably close, we can truly say we have turned the corner and we’re relevant again. If we go down by 30, it’s another false dawn.
To be honest, I can believe that there might not be much difference between a pro whose face has fit or who has persisted through the pathways and a semi pro who has just been unlucky/overlooked/developed later. I think there will definitely be some benefit as we continue to see more meaningful interactions between the pro squads and the Super 6 as we will see where players really fit.weegie01 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:51 am I was chatting to a few Super 6 / young pros yesterday about the pro A teams being in the Super 6 Sprint.
They are unsure how the pro A team selections will work, i.e. who pro players who often turn out for the Super 6 will play for.
Glasgow wanted the A teams to play the whole competition, it was Edinburgh who only wanted the three as they thought they could not resource the whole series (no one really understood this).
As it should be, the Super 6 boys are desperate to take on the pros, especially those who were borderline.
One comment that came out was in relation to pros who drop down to Super 6 for fitness etc. Examples were cited of players who do this and are clearly a class above, but there are too many who drop down and Super 6 looks like their level. It is not the first time I have heard Savala described as someone who shows he is a Super 6 level player when he drops down.
YupDeveron Boy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 2:50 pm The SRU have real ability to fuck up everything to do with Siobhan
Ashman has to get a game next week. Sub front row were poor.I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:33 pm How much more often are we going to let Fraser Brown miss key lineouts. It's a real problem.