NPR

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:21 pm

TB63 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:02 pm

This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's clearly something going on there at the start of that video - whether it's Genge being held down or something more nefarious. I.e. the sort of shit that happens in every game. Genge reacts with a shove. Woopdefuckingdo, let's comb through the footage of every minute to find something to villify players for on social media.

I remember watching this at the time. Genge was trying to roll away and rejoin the defensive line, but the Welsh player was desperately holding on to him and trying to stop him get away. Genge needed several attempts to free himself and indeed showed his frustration when he was finally able to do so. I thought at the time he was lucky not to be penalized for retaliation, but the Welsh player was clearly the instigator.

Rugby twitter is toxic...players well advised not to bother or hand off to a PR firm.

The England problems with the ref starts with the very first carry by May in the first few minutes of the match. England get the ball to the edge of the Welsh defence, May carries up and is tackled by LRZ with North in very close attendance. As May hits the deck, North who is arguably part of the tackle, goes straight to a jackal position over May but May's momentum takes him forward and North goes beyond the ball and straight onto both of his forearms (a clear full penalty to England). As Slade, Farrell and Watson hit the ruck, May throws in a single roll with his momentum before presenting the ball but Gauzere penalises May - the attacking team - in the second minute of the game with a full penalty. It's unnecessary, egregious and, unfortunately, an omen of things to come.

Gauzere was abysmal.

You can see this penalty here...

tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:25 pm Rugby twitter is toxic...players well advised not to bother or hand off to a PR firm.

I've got limited sympathy for those on the receiving end of abuse. Just get off it ffs.

tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:25 pm Rugby twitter is toxic...players well advised not to bother or hand off to a PR firm.

The whole thing was just a terrible advert for the game. I'm left feeling really flat about it - obviously at least partially because we lost, however more so that England Wales is for me one of the biggest games in the sport and usually offers an awful lot. Saturday was dominated by poor refereeing and followed up by twitter abuse left, right and centre.

https://www.the42.ie/laporte-galthie-si ... ssion=true

Laporte confirms Galthie left the bubble

He's in trouble surely despite Laporte offering support. Also confirmed now I think that players left the bubble in Rome to go eat in a waffle house. Jokeshop stuff really and they should forfeit if an appropriate alternative date can't be found.

Not up to the PRL to pick up the slack and release English based Scottish players outside of test windows because France have taken the piss with Covid regs.

Galthier is in Trouble however the one with the biggest target is Simon.

He is supposed to be covid manager. All the French teams Have had clusters. Ladies XV in Autumn, U20 in January February, Mens 7 in February, Ladies 7 in February.

In the end the Sport ministry may want to stage a coup and to be honest a lot of the french Rugby people would be happy with that (after all Laporte and his stooges barely scrapped past the post with 51.4 % in the elections in the fall.

tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:25 pm Rugby twitter is toxic...players well advised not to bother or hand off to a PR firm.

Liam always handles it well
https://mobile.twitter.com/SanjayWills ... 9847431175

Begbie wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:58 am https://www.the42.ie/laporte-galthie-si ... ssion=true

Laporte confirms Galthie left the bubble

Bloody hell! What utter stupidity
Looks like the FFR sat on this for a while.

Plato’sCave wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:27 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:25 pm Rugby twitter is toxic...players well advised not to bother or hand off to a PR firm.

Liam always handles it well
https://mobile.twitter.com/SanjayWills ... 9847431175

Its great to see positive interactions between players and fans but the negatives far outweigh them.

Also while Welsh rugby fans are generally great and found as a cornerstone of rugby clubs across the whole UK the tribal nature of England/Wales games for the Welsh means you get the knuckledraggers swapping out the Cardiff city jersey for an afternoon. (Yes I am aware England has its share of twats too). The ability to @ players means it provides a way for the worst kind of trolls to directly abuse - watching Mike Brown in years past get into it with various dickheads was particularly unpleasant

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:56 pm Very decent come back from Genge to be fair.

Still comes across as a bit of a cock a lot of the time

Majority of top level sportsmen are.
Or their level of self-confidence can come across that way.

Fair play like.
And a very special ending.

The Druid wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:48 pm Fair play like.
And a very special ending.

Top bantz Joe.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:42 pm The England problems with the ref starts with the very first carry by May in the first few minutes of the match. England get the ball to the edge of the Welsh defence, May carries up and is tackled by LRZ with North in very close attendance. As May hits the deck, North who is arguably part of the tackle, goes straight to a jackal position over May but May's momentum takes him forward and North goes beyond the ball and straight onto both of his forearms (a clear full penalty to England). As Slade, Farrell and Watson hit the ruck, May throws in a single roll with his momentum before presenting the ball but Gauzere penalises May - the attacking team - in the second minute of the game with a full penalty. It's unnecessary, egregious and, unfortunately, an omen of things to come.

Gauzere was abysmal.

You can see this penalty here...

Yes the ref was so abysmal you would think any smart team would play to the ref, how on earth did England lose, Oh hold on.

Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

I’ll agree to take the 2 point moral victory as an addition to the 16 point scoreboard win.

Everyone happy now?

Plato’sCave wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:17 pm I’ll agree to take the 2 point moral victory as an addition to the 16 point scoreboard win.

Everyone happy now?

Can we add the six points from the two penalties that would otherwise have been kicked? I think I’m right in thinking we were playing advantage when Liam Wms scored his try.

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:47 pm

Plato’sCave wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:17 pm I’ll agree to take the 2 point moral victory as an addition to the 16 point scoreboard win.

Everyone happy now?

Can we add the six points from the two penalties that would otherwise have been kicked? I think I’m right in thinking we were playing advantage when Liam Wms scored his try.

Yes, with games played in alternative universes like this one where we didn’t put 40 on them we can do anything we like.

Any England points scored after the Adams try are also all up for question too. It would be a different game after all. We may have won by 60. That’s how this land of make believe works.

Plato’sCave wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:03 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:47 pm

Plato’sCave wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:17 pm I’ll agree to take the 2 point moral victory as an addition to the 16 point scoreboard win.

Everyone happy now?

Can we add the six points from the two penalties that would otherwise have been kicked? I think I’m right in thinking we were playing advantage when Liam Wms scored his try.

Yes, with games played in alternative universes like this one where we didn’t put 40 on them we can do anything we like.

Any England points scored after the Adams try are also all up for question too. It would be a different game after all. We may have won by 60. That’s how this land of make believe works.

I’ll settle for this universe for now. Even if those tries hadn’t have been awarded we’d have still been ensconced deep into English territory so given our attacking power we’d almost certainly have got a couple of tries eventually.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

A pity Jutge ruins it slightly by adding the comment that Gauzere is an "excellent international referee". The captain of the Titanic was an excellent skipper bar one slight navigational mishap.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

Probably time to close this case. It isn't like we've never got lucky before. Hurts but there we are, not like it stopped a grand slam in it's tracks.

clive wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:31 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:42 pm The England problems with the ref starts with the very first carry by May in the first few minutes of the match. England get the ball to the edge of the Welsh defence, May carries up and is tackled by LRZ with North in very close attendance. As May hits the deck, North who is arguably part of the tackle, goes straight to a jackal position over May but May's momentum takes him forward and North goes beyond the ball and straight onto both of his forearms (a clear full penalty to England). As Slade, Farrell and Watson hit the ruck, May throws in a single roll with his momentum before presenting the ball but Gauzere penalises May - the attacking team - in the second minute of the game with a full penalty. It's unnecessary, egregious and, unfortunately, an omen of things to come.

Gauzere was abysmal.

You can see this penalty here...

Yes the ref was so abysmal you would think any smart team would play to the ref, how on earth did England lose, Oh hold on.

Post-tackle rolls to prevent or obstruct a jackal no longer allowed.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

Good point JM.

Where’s Fester, Homer and EDF gone?

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

Good point JM.

Where’s Fester, Homer and EDF gone?

Have you checked down the back of the sofa?..

I am he admitted it was a mistake which shuts up the usual bores online.

England have gotten decisions before - Farrels should charge vs SA in 2018 comes to mind. Life moves on.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:22 am

Openside wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:48 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:49 am I’m the one saying it’s a knock on OS

Apols, someone must have left a quote in the wrong place...it seemed to suggest you were back the on field decision. Or I have misinterpreted in a hurry (always possible)

I was surprised to see a sensible Surrey man talking gobbledygook

Speaking of the local area. Don’t know about you but the sun of last couple of days was both great and a killer. Golf clubs were twitching, and I’ve completely forgotten how bad I am at golf.

golf is bizarre the more I play the more I want to play and vice versa

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:31 pm I am he admitted it was a mistake which shuts up the usual bores online.

England have gotten decisions before - Farrels should charge vs SA in 2018 comes to mind. Life moves on.

Is that his "tackle" near the end of the match that made me go, "You stupid cunt!" when he did it?

Followed up the week after by one on the Australian lock (Rodda?) on the try line.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

Sounds like Gauzere needs some unconscious bias training.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:20 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:31 pm I am he admitted it was a mistake which shuts up the usual bores online.

England have gotten decisions before - Farrels should charge vs SA in 2018 comes to mind. Life moves on.

Is that his "tackle" near the end of the match that made me go, "You stupid cunt!" when he did it?

Followed up the week after by one on the Australian lock (Rodda?) on the try line.

It was the shoulder charge in the middle of the park that won us the game but should have lost it.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:20 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:31 pm I am he admitted it was a mistake which shuts up the usual bores online.

England have gotten decisions before - Farrels should charge vs SA in 2018 comes to mind. Life moves on.

Is that his "tackle" near the end of the match that made me go, "You stupid cunt!" when he did it?

Followed up the week after by one on the Australian lock (Rodda?) on the try line.

Yes the one vs SA was a clear cut easy kickable penalty that would have won SA the game.

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:18 am

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:20 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:31 pm I am he admitted it was a mistake which shuts up the usual bores online.

England have gotten decisions before - Farrels should charge vs SA in 2018 comes to mind. Life moves on.

Is that his "tackle" near the end of the match that made me go, "You stupid cunt!" when he did it?

Followed up the week after by one on the Australian lock (Rodda?) on the try line.

Yes the one vs SA was a clear cut easy kickable penalty that would have won SA the game.

Stupid twat Saffer centre should have stayed down!!

TB63 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:09 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:06 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:36 pm Jutge and Gauzere admit those two decisions were errors. Fair enough, glad no-one was silly enough to argue the knock-on in particular.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-19938253

Shit happens.

Good point JM.

Where’s Fester, Homer and EDF gone?

Have you checked down the back of the sofa?..

No biggie. Owen Doyle gives it both barrels in the Irish Times also.
Still a lot of debate and it's falling either side of the letter of the laws versus spirit of the laws. Spirit of the laws can be a dodgy place to be sometimes.

It's interesting to look at the wording of what Jutge said though:

With regard to the second try, I think there is a tendency to refer to the TMO too often when one can make the call oneself on the pitch and stick with it, which if Pascal had whistled for a knock-on there would have meant no appeal by the TMO to review it.

It reminds me of advice I was given years ago, which was along the lines of "A ref's decision should be clear, fast & correct. Any two of the three will do".
Gauzere plus his team of three were not clear why the decision was being made. It certainly wasn't fast and that leads to prolonged debate as to whether it was correct.

Jutge's approach is make the decision fast + clear and let the losers debate the accuracy later.
A member of Gauzere's reviewing team happens to disagree with Jutge and their appraisal (word doc) is floating around whatsapp (their verdict was try 1 = no try but try 2 = try).

I think you do have to consider these other words he used: "There is a loss of control, the ball goes forward, so it’s a knock on."

Basically his reasoning boils down to "use some common sense ffs", which is pretty much the tone of most reasonable discussion around this one anyway.

And refs regularly get pulled up for using "common sense" instead of applying the letter of the law.
By the letter of the law, the ball was not travelling forward when it hit the ground/other player and that's why the officials on Saturday made their call.

Once you go down the "common sense" route, you start getting variations on stuff, when they are trying to get alignment. Extreme end of that would be "but the head high tackle wasn't intentional" or "he wasn't injured".

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:11 pm And refs regularly get pulled up for using "common sense" instead of applying the letter of the law.
By the letter of the law, the ball was not travelling forward when it hit the ground/other player and that's why the officials on Saturday made their call.

Once you go down the "common sense" route, you start getting variations on stuff, when they are trying to get alignment. Extreme end of that would be "but the head high tackle wasn't intentional" or "he wasn't injured".

Its equally possible to make the case that it was a clear knock on ‘by the letter of the law’

The law states: “Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it”

The ball clearly went forward from his hand, and he failed to catch it again before it hit the ground. There is nothing in the law to say that his losing the ball forward can then be negated if it goes backward after hitting another part of his body.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:11 pm And refs regularly get pulled up for using "common sense" instead of applying the letter of the law.
By the letter of the law, the ball was not travelling forward when it hit the ground/other player and that's why the officials on Saturday made their call.

Once you go down the "common sense" route, you start getting variations on stuff, when they are trying to get alignment. Extreme end of that would be "but the head high tackle wasn't intentional" or "he wasn't injured".

We get variations on literally everything in rugby. It's all subjective in some way. As you and I have already discussed, what the refs did on Saturday may be justifiable with a certain interpretation of the law, but it goes contrary to how the game has been refereed since, well, forever. Jutge made his point pretty clearly I thought, and he is the ultimate authority on this, so fair enough, no?

Maggie on abuse

I hate this rest week, it sucks all the momentum out of the tournament. Really need a restructure so that it's 2 weeks on - rest - 2 weeks on - rest - super saturday.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:18 pm I hate this rest week, it sucks all the momentum out of the tournament. Really need a restructure so that it's 2 weeks on - rest - 2 weeks on - rest - super saturday.

Especially given we missed a game as well. This year they've been playing less rugby, there's less going on, did we actually need a break let alone 2