NPR

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:34 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:56 pm

Came to post that. Truly disgusting.

It took more than 24hrs for any stories about it to emerge in the media, which is possibly even worse.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:29 pm I get the feeling that some in the Home Office will only be happy when no one has a right to live here, irrespective of where they were born.

The elements that means this issue keeps returning are:

1. The UK has no written constitution, by that I mean a set legal text that's logically consistent and all other laws must comply with. Instead parliament makes the laws on an ongoing basis. But this means that various immigration acts/practices/conventions, over time can and do come into conflict with one another.

2. The first point means that parliament must proactively pass new legislation to prevent Windrush situations happening (this is the whole point of the parliamentary sovereignty model, it's supposed to be responsive and agile). But this requires competent ministers that haven't turned immigration into a political football. If parliament starts making bad legislation it makes the problem worse not better.

3. A lot of post-WW2 immigration legislation was made to deprive Commonwealth citizens of their right to British citizenship (especially those from/in the Caribbean who had very strong claims), this was then built on by subsequent immigration legislation. Which is how an internal Home Office report found the UK's immigration system it is tasked with enforcing is racist. Without getting too deep into it, this went as far as making categories of British nationality (there are 6 types of British nationality) that do not allow someone to live in the UK, it's possible to be a type of British national without being a British citizen.

4. Courts are then tasked with trying to interpret this huge mess, where it's possible to come to opposite outcomes from the same evidence (this is what judges have said). Where it's clear (as it seems to be regarding children born to EU citizens without ILR, they aren't UK citizens despite thinking they were their whole lives), then the courts have to reach legally correct but immoral verdicts. This is a problem for the Home Office too, as these verdicts often run counter to how they were running the system and the advice they gave (their advice was always that EU nationals didn't need ILR).

A lot of this could end with a new immigration act that sensibly resolved legacy cases, and reduced the burden on people that have been living in the UK for decades to prove they have (it gets ridiculous with binders stuffed full of documents and the Home Office still being unhappy). Windrush2 is easily avoidable if the Tories want to avoid it.

Windrush1 already shows what will happen, some of the people caught in that were UK born children to Windrush parents who had their British citizenship questioned by officials enforcing the hostile environment (they showed their UK NI number and UK birth certificate and were told to show their parent's passports to prove they were British), and when they couldn't prove they were British ended up homeless. It can happen because it already has happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... re-british

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:49 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:54 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64409947

Good God!

He has all the necessary requirements to work for GB News, as he's a despicable, immoral,, bigoted cunt.

Does the UK not have any legislation for, "Equal Time", when media outlets, give Politicians a platform ?

No. We were going to have some but it turned out some fucker had stolen all the commas and they had to cut it short.

In further "Matt Hancock doing whatever he can to win public support" news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64414637

Andrew Bridgen is threatening to sue fellow MP Matt Hancock after the former health secretary accused him on Twitter of "antisemitic, anti-vax, anti-scientific conspiracy theories".

Mr Bridgen was suspended as a Tory MP over a tweet likening the impact of Covid vaccines to the Holocaust.

A letter sent on his behalf is claiming £100,000 in libel damages.

Mr Hancock - who had the Tory whip removed for his reality TV appearance - is standing by his comments.

... this one might actually work

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:26 pm In further "Matt Hancock doing whatever he can to win public support" news:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64414637

Andrew Bridgen is threatening to sue fellow MP Matt Hancock after the former health secretary accused him on Twitter of "antisemitic, anti-vax, anti-scientific conspiracy theories".

Mr Bridgen was suspended as a Tory MP over a tweet likening the impact of Covid vaccines to the Holocaust.

A letter sent on his behalf is claiming £100,000 in libel damages.

Mr Hancock - who had the Tory whip removed for his reality TV appearance - is standing by his comments.

... this one might actually work

Is that Andrew Bridgen who a judge said lied in court under oath, who lost the case against his family re running of the family potato business, who used his MP position to ask police to investigate his brother about some made up crime, a Brexit Spartan who thought any UK citizen was entitled to a RoI passport, who breached HoC MPs Code of Conduct and was suspended for 5 days, who was expelled from the Tory party for comparing covid vaccinations to the Holocaust and who was evicted from the family business home he and his second wife, a Serbian Opera singer lived in and had to pay £800k costs? If it is then I suspect creepy Hancock won't be all that worried!

So the new proposed pension age is higher than the life expectancy in Blackpool.

The North South divide really is a blight on the UK.

Just listening to Hunt the Cunt make his speech on Radio 5. He is like a Headmaster making the welcome speech to new pupils - the 4 Es. Utter shite! However he has explained that the UK is ploughing headlong into creating the Sovereign Individual free for all that his Tufton Street mates, JRM etc have been wetting their pants over. Reducing constraints on banks looks like a recipe for Bank Crash.2 and the desire to reduce taxes by reducing spending is code for getting rid of public services. Full of buzzwords and taking advantage of 'Brexit Freedoms' - shite!1

Another for the hit parade, HS2 in trouble again.

Seems they can't link Euston and will turf people out at Willesden instead. And even then capacity may not be enough for the service. Another bonfire of free money.

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:59 am Just listening to Hunt the Cunt make his speech on Radio 5. He is like a Headmaster making the welcome speech to new pupils - the 4 Es. Utter shite! However he has explained that the UK is ploughing headlong into creating the Sovereign Individual free for all that his Tufton Street mates, JRM etc have been wetting their pants over. Reducing constraints on banks looks like a recipe for Bank Crash.2 and the desire to reduce taxes by reducing spending is code for getting rid of public services. Full of buzzwords and taking advantage of 'Brexit Freedoms' - shite!1

I gave up listening to the conceited cunt.
It's not as if he hasn't been at the heart of government during all the years of austerity and under investment for the past 13 years.

lemonhead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:00 am Another for the hit parade, HS2 in trouble again.

Seems they can't link Euston and will turf people out at Willesden instead. And even then capacity may not be enough for the service. Another bonfire of free money.

Should haave scrapped the whole thing years ago

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:14 am

lemonhead wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:00 am Another for the hit parade, HS2 in trouble again.

Seems they can't link Euston and will turf people out at Willesden instead. And even then capacity may not be enough for the service. Another bonfire of free money.

Should have scrapped the whole thing years ago

I agree. We don't "need it", but we desperately needed Govt to spend on Big Infrastructure Projects and this one gave them cold feet on all the others in the pipeline - so they didn't start any except Cross-Rail. Wankers.

We definitely do need it and this is a travesty if true

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:59 am Just listening to Hunt the Cunt make his speech on Radio 5. He is like a Headmaster making the welcome speech to new pupils - the 4 Es. Utter shite! However he has explained that the UK is ploughing headlong into creating the Sovereign Individual free for all that his Tufton Street mates, JRM etc have been wetting their pants over. Reducing constraints on banks looks like a recipe for Bank Crash.2 and the desire to reduce taxes by reducing spending is code for getting rid of public services. Full of buzzwords and taking advantage of 'Brexit Freedoms' - shite!1

Hey, things are only bad because other politicians and the media say it's bad! It'll be great!

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:31 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:59 am Just listening to Hunt the Cunt make his speech on Radio 5. He is like a Headmaster making the welcome speech to new pupils - the 4 Es. Utter shite! However he has explained that the UK is ploughing headlong into creating the Sovereign Individual free for all that his Tufton Street mates, JRM etc have been wetting their pants over. Reducing constraints on banks looks like a recipe for Bank Crash.2 and the desire to reduce taxes by reducing spending is code for getting rid of public services. Full of buzzwords and taking advantage of 'Brexit Freedoms' - shite!1

Hey, things are only bad because other politicians and the media say it's bad! It'll be great!

During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:45 am During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

Just move the London boundary to Luton, then it would be easy to get from Manchester to London pdq.

After all, Luton airport is in London, apparently

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:31 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:59 am Just listening to Hunt the Cunt make his speech on Radio 5. He is like a Headmaster making the welcome speech to new pupils - the 4 Es. Utter shite! However he has explained that the UK is ploughing headlong into creating the Sovereign Individual free for all that his Tufton Street mates, JRM etc have been wetting their pants over. Reducing constraints on banks looks like a recipe for Bank Crash.2 and the desire to reduce taxes by reducing spending is code for getting rid of public services. Full of buzzwords and taking advantage of 'Brexit Freedoms' - shite!1

Hey, things are only bad because other politicians and the media say it's bad! It'll be great!

It really is incredible we're still talking about EU red tape. Every single Tory voter is just an idiot, no redeeming factor to buying that stupidity. Fortunately there are fewer these days.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:51 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:45 am During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

Interesting, so I guess the question becomes what does lots (what volumes are we looking at?) of new people popping up in a confined part of zone 2/3 during rush hour do to London's transport network, hard to imagine Central/Piccadilly/District all being more rammed, hopefully most use the Elizabeth line.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:34 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:51 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:45 am During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

Interesting, so I guess the question becomes what does lots (what volumes are we looking at?) of new people popping up in a confined part of zone 2/3 during rush hour do to London's transport network, hard to imagine Central/Piccadilly/District all being more rammed, hopefully most use the Elizabeth line.

Probably do the old "Eurostar in Waterloo" thing - high speed HS2 lines until Willesden, then slow down on existing tracks into *insert existing Zone 1 station here*

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:34 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:51 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:45 am During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

Interesting, so I guess the question becomes what does lots (what volumes are we looking at?) of new people popping up in a confined part of zone 2/3 during rush hour do to London's transport network, hard to imagine Central/Piccadilly/District all being more rammed, hopefully most use the Elizabeth line.

Sandstorm is correct I would imagine, though the two main line stations with a feasible link to OOC (Paddington and Marylebone) aren’t oozing spare capacity.

What’s frustrating is this is all paper calculations as well, if you build it to Euston and do so ASAP it can start paying itself back sooner. And as far the people suggesting any money saved will be reinvested into the local network - if they believe that I have a tunnel to Euston to sell them

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:51 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:45 am During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

There's HS trains and HS trains though. It's debatable whether the 300km/hr + TGV speeds are necessary in the relatively short London to Manchester run, and 200km/hr trains can easily be achieved by more simple track upgrading, signalling and electrification (if not already done). If the existing track way allows it, doubling, or even an extra single line of tracks can be enough to allow mixing of local and the lower HS trains. And at a much, much cheaper cost.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:43 am Probably do the old "Eurostar in Waterloo" thing - high speed HS2 lines until Willesden, then slow down on existing tracks into *insert existing Zone 1 station here*

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:58 am Sandstorm is correct I would imagine, though the two main line stations with a feasible link to OOC (Paddington and Marylebone) aren’t oozing spare capacity.

This seems not as bad as I imagined. Still wondering what the actual "saving" is though.

The UK/England seems desperate for any achievements at the moment (there's much more focus on big sporting events than there was for example), I don't think those wanting to cut HS2 are reading the room that well.

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:51 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:45 am During the madness of Truss there were Tories saying they wanted to axe HS2 to balance the books and enable Trussonomics to happen. I posted it on the thread. Not surprising they want to cut costs by scaling it back. Dumb move, negates a lot of the point travelling to outer London then getting a bus/tube to central London, half the journey time could end up being the travel within London, meaning it's not high speed. There must be a danger of a regular train into central London being about as fast.

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

There's HS trains and HS trains though. It's debatable whether the 300km/hr + TGV speeds are necessary in the relatively short London to Manchester run, and 200km/hr trains can easily be achieved by more simple track upgrading, signalling and electrification (if not already done). If the existing track way allows it, doubling, or even an extra single line of tracks can be enough to allow mixing of local and the lower HS trains. And at a much, much cheaper cost.

Completely agree on the speed element. 225mph (the current proposed running speed) seems like the easiest thing to reduce on this project as you say. For me I'd probably have just built a regular 125mph railway with stops only in the cities, the ECML has show just how fast a track that can create even with stopping services.

As to doubling existing lines, the WCML (the one HS2 is really trying to alleviate pressure on) underwent a major upgrade c.2010 (exact date escapes me). This was expensive, massively disruptive and is already at capacity again.
No reason you will have done but if you trace the WCML on google maps you can see there is no natural space for doubling and it runs through built up areas and industrial estates for huge swathes of the journey. Essentially, you can add extra tracks there but at a cost where you may as well build a new railway.

The issue with HS2, among others, is that it is wildly overspecced. The speed is the first element (which mandates being rod straight and extra strength bridges etc), tunnelling through cities and large swathes of countryside to appease people who were not appeased was a second, and I could go on. When you look at the scope of the project and what they are required to do, you can easily forget they're trying to build a railway.
With all this said though, if we build it properly it will have significant benefits and like with all infrastructure projects people will get used to it very quickly.

OMG how horrific for the Tories, us oldies not falling for the guff they spew out...

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:16 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:02 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:51 am

This is all true, though I’d point out that speed isn’t the central benefit of the new line compared to capacity. 2 hrs basically bang on to Manchester is a pretty fast track by any measure, the issue is running these trains on the WCML buggers up all local services

There's HS trains and HS trains though. It's debatable whether the 300km/hr + TGV speeds are necessary in the relatively short London to Manchester run, and 200km/hr trains can easily be achieved by more simple track upgrading, signalling and electrification (if not already done). If the existing track way allows it, doubling, or even an extra single line of tracks can be enough to allow mixing of local and the lower HS trains. And at a much, much cheaper cost.

Completely agree on the speed element. 225mph (the current proposed running speed) seems like the easiest thing to reduce on this project as you say. For me I'd probably have just built a regular 125mph railway with stops only in the cities, the ECML has show just how fast a track that can create even with stopping services.

As to doubling existing lines, the WCML (the one HS2 is really trying to alleviate pressure on) underwent a major upgrade c.2010 (exact date escapes me). This was expensive, massively disruptive and is already at capacity again.
No reason you will have done but if you trace the WCML on google maps you can see there is no natural space for doubling and it runs through built up areas and industrial estates for huge swathes of the journey. Essentially, you can add extra tracks there but at a cost where you may as well build a new railway.

The issue with HS2, among others, is that it is wildly overspecced. The speed is the first element (which mandates being rod straight and extra strength bridges etc), tunnelling through cities and large swathes of countryside to appease people who were not appeased was a second, and I could go on. When you look at the scope of the project and what they are required to do, you can easily forget they're trying to build a railway.
With all this said though, if we build it properly it will have significant benefits and like with all infrastructure projects people will get used to it very quickly.

FWIW I'm pretty sure that with modern signalling trains running at 200 kph can safely mix with slower traffic up to a point. But as you say, I am not familiar with either the west coast line, nor its usage.

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:33 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:16 pm

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:02 pm
There's HS trains and HS trains though. It's debatable whether the 300km/hr + TGV speeds are necessary in the relatively short London to Manchester run, and 200km/hr trains can easily be achieved by more simple track upgrading, signalling and electrification (if not already done). If the existing track way allows it, doubling, or even an extra single line of tracks can be enough to allow mixing of local and the lower HS trains. And at a much, much cheaper cost.

Completely agree on the speed element. 225mph (the current proposed running speed) seems like the easiest thing to reduce on this project as you say. For me I'd probably have just built a regular 125mph railway with stops only in the cities, the ECML has show just how fast a track that can create even with stopping services.

As to doubling existing lines, the WCML (the one HS2 is really trying to alleviate pressure on) underwent a major upgrade c.2010 (exact date escapes me). This was expensive, massively disruptive and is already at capacity again.
No reason you will have done but if you trace the WCML on google maps you can see there is no natural space for doubling and it runs through built up areas and industrial estates for huge swathes of the journey. Essentially, you can add extra tracks there but at a cost where you may as well build a new railway.

The issue with HS2, among others, is that it is wildly overspecced. The speed is the first element (which mandates being rod straight and extra strength bridges etc), tunnelling through cities and large swathes of countryside to appease people who were not appeased was a second, and I could go on. When you look at the scope of the project and what they are required to do, you can easily forget they're trying to build a railway.
With all this said though, if we build it properly it will have significant benefits and like with all infrastructure projects people will get used to it very quickly.

FWIW I'm pretty sure that with modern signalling trains running at 200 kph can safely mix with slower traffic up to a point. But as you say, I am not familiar with either the west coast line, nor its usage.

Up to a point I think is right. The challenge with both main lines heading north is that they combine little local railways with the busiest inter-city lines, that are basically at capacity. This means demand is regulated by higher prices and service quality suffers (same as anything running at 95%+ capacity).
The more inter-city is placed on its own line the less it has to stop, the faster it can go and the more local services you can run. It also means one isn't so affected by the other - it once took me 8.5 hours to get home from Glasgow Central because someone pulled the emergency stop on a suburban train at Cambuslang, for example.

"Blistering" is overstating it somewhat, but clearly Hunt is thinking all we have to do is "Believe in Britain", ignore the festering pustule of Brexit reality and magically everything will be glorious

Paddington is correct to state that a big benefit of HS rail lines is it frees up capacity for local train services and goods.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:17 pm OMG how horrific for the Tories, us oldies not falling for the guff they spew out...

My parents (in their 60s) are definitely less conservative now than they were 20 years ago, partly because my brother and I have challenged them on many of their views. They're very Christian by modern standards and are clearly a bit uncomfortable about LGBT stuff, but they're miles from where they used to be saying stuff like "It's just not natural is it?"

The Tories have done a very good job over the last 12 of backing up everything disparaging we ever said about them while also creating whole new reasons to despise them.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:49 pm "Blistering" is overstating it somewhat, but clearly Hunt is thinking all we have to do is "Believe in Britain", ignore the festering pustule of Brexit reality and magically everything will be glorious

IoD's chief economist Kitty Usher not impressed either

But while he referenced the current prime minister’s Mais lecture of a year ago, that opened the door to using the tax system to encourage investment in people, capital and ideas, we heard nothing about how it would be done.
The chancellor himself said today’s speech was “not a series of measures or announcements”. We would therefore add a fifth E for ‘Empty’ to his 4 E’s economic framework.

Hunt giving a speech, on Holocaust Memorial Day, in front of five economic pledges, the fifth of which is "Stop The Boats". Braverman throwing out a Tweet showing solidarity with Holocaust victims. The Tory Party is just a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

And they are going nowhere, no matter how many scandals, how much public money is looted, no matter what shite they do, until their goals of selling the NHS and burning regulations to the ground are achieved, even if they have to have three more leadership campaigns to do it in the next two years.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:45 pm

HMRC boss tells MPs ‘innocent errors’ are not penalised amid Zahawi tax row

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... wi-tax-row

And of course the hmrc CEO has never lied?????

Something like 400k people a year are penalised even when they OWE NO TAX at all.


I know the tax man lies from personal experience.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:27 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:17 pm OMG how horrific for the Tories, us oldies not falling for the guff they spew out...

My parents (in their 60s) are definitely less conservative now than they were 20 years ago, partly because my brother and I have challenged them on many of their views. They're very Christian by modern standards and are clearly a bit uncomfortable about LGBT stuff, but they're miles from where they used to be saying stuff like "It's just not natural is it?"

The Tories have done a very good job over the last 12 of backing up everything disparaging we ever said about them while also creating whole new reasons to despise them.

The crazy thing is that the average age of a Tory MP has remained around 50 years old! They're not Boomers.

Zahawi sacked.
Raab next?

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:19 am Zahawi sacked.
Raab next?

It’s impressive how incredibly badly Rishi has handled it.

Held out for long enough to be accused of shielding him, then sacked him, so he now can be accused of not being loyal to a fellow Tory, & all the while being a total hypocrite, because of his wife’s own tax affairs.

Probably quite a shock that an "Ethics Advisor" actually does the job for once...

Nadhim Zahawi sacked as Tory party chair over tax affairs

Rishi Sunak has sacked the Conservative party chair, Nadhim Zahawi, after he was found to have breached the ministerial code over his tax affairs.

The former chancellor has faced extensive questions in parliament and the media after it emerged he agreed to pay millions to HMRC following a settlement with the tax department.

In a letter to the Tory party chair, Sunak said the ethics adviser, Sir Laurie Magnus, had concluded there was a “serious breach” of the ministerial code. “As a result, I have informed you of my decision to remove you from your position in His Majesty’s Government,” he said.

The prime minister, who had promised “integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level” of his government had been under growing pressure to sack Zahawi from the cabinet, with his judgment coming under question from Tory MPs for reappointing him.

The HMRC investigation into Zahawi began in April 2021, including a meeting with the minister and his advisers in June 2021. Zahawi told the ethics adviser he had “formed the impression” he was simply being asked questions over his tax affairs. But Magnus said Zahawi should have understood he was under serious investigation.

The minister failed to declare the HMRC investigation to the Treasury’s permanent secretary after his appointment as chancellor by Boris Johnson on 5 July 2022. By that stage the investigation had been ongoing for more than a year; however, Zahawi only updated his declaration on 15 July 2022.

Zahawi committed a second breach of the ministerial code by failing to disclose the fact he had paid a penalty for tax avoidance when he was first appointed to Liz Truss’s cabinet last September, and then to Sunak’s in October.

He had reached a settlement with HMRC in August 2022, but it was not until 20 January this year that the details came to light, after the Guardian was told he had paid a penalty imposed by HMRC. He issued a statement the following day, saying the tax office had concluded that he had made a “careless but not deliberate” error.

In his letter to Sunak, the ethics adviser said: “Taken together, I consider that these omissions constitute a serious failure to meet the standards set out in the ministerial code.”

i wonder if Rishi will be called to discuss his FPN when the Johnson inquiry starts up again and witnesses are called.
I wonder if some of those who destroyed information and notes etc are still in Govt or working at Downing Streets.
Rishing is going to be ripped aparted and smears galore dripping out

The Party is broken and it's going to get worse much worse.
It's truly heartwarming

So, Zahawi to be the next Home Secretary, then?

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 10:31 am So, Zahawi to be the next Home Secretary, then?

Ha. I was willing to give Sunak half a chance but he did it for me after he reappointed Braverman straight away.