NPR

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:38 pm Can someone tell Farrell he can pass the ball too.

It's such a fucking waste of a potentially potent back line.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:18 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 12:02 pm

Oxbow wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 11:52 am I think it's only Toga who is desperate to see Steward replaced, everybody else is just postulating about viable alternatives.

Yep - We've got lots to improve on before Steward becomes anywhere near the top of the issues list. And I think we can still get a lot more out of him in attack - he's very good near the line where he really takes some stopping.

Don't misinterpret what I'm saying - I've said often, including in this thread, that Steward is a fine player. He even executes a skill to a very high standard, nearly as well as the Irish fullback does it. However, he's a fullback who can't run very quickly. That's as fundamentally out of sorts as saying a 6'2" lock is a brilliant scrummager or an 85kg prop is good at lifting in the lineout. What's missing just can't be ignored - it will manifest itself as a problem sooner or later.

I don't think he's as slow as you make out. Big stride and all that.

The point you made the other day about his tackling is a lot more concerning.

Case in point...

Another questionable kick from Farrell...

Fuck off with the pointless kicks.

World Class Fly Half innit

There is very little joy to be gained from this so far despite the score.

It's a very Stereotypical Leicester Under Borthwick game so far.

Tbf that touch finder to pin Italy back was cracking.

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:20 pm Tbf that touch finder to pin Italy back was cracking.

It was the right decision in the circumstances, but I struggle to credit him because he's kicked so much anyway.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:25 pm

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:20 pm Tbf that touch finder to pin Italy back was cracking.

It was the right decision in the circumstances, but I struggle to credit him because he's kicked so much anyway.

Yeah there is that

Fucking lol at our replacement props

Apart from a couple of bustling Lawrence runs we've offered nothing in attack, Italy look far more fluid than we do.

Oxbow wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:35 pm Apart from a couple of bustling Lawrence runs we've offered nothing in attack, Italy look far more fluid than we do.

Farrell has kicked it all.

That's what Mitchell can do. Ben Youngs back next week.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:38 pm

Oxbow wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:35 pm Apart from a couple of bustling Lawrence runs we've offered nothing in attack, Italy look far more fluid than we do.

Farrell has kicked it all.

Not entirely true. He's made a lot of passes. None of them telling, just shoveling ball on, but hey.

Arundell will save everything of course

Oh look, Smith gets 8 minutes with Faz at 12. What's even the point?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:41 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:38 pm

Oxbow wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:35 pm Apart from a couple of bustling Lawrence runs we've offered nothing in attack, Italy look far more fluid than we do.

Farrell has kicked it all.

Not entirely true. He's made a lot of passes. None of them telling, just shoveling ball on, but hey.

Arundell will save everything of course

He's passed a lot from set piece, in open play he's kicked an enormous amount.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:42 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:41 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:38 pm

Farrell has kicked it all.

Not entirely true. He's made a lot of passes. None of them telling, just shoveling ball on, but hey.

Arundell will save everything of course

He's passed a lot from set piece, in open play he's kicked an enormous amount.

I know!

It has to be written into Farrell's contract that he can never be subbed.

Farell offers nothing at ten at test level.

Other than Earl, none of the replacement forwards have offered anything.

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 4:53 pm Other than Earl, none of the replacement forwards have offered anything.

Nonsense

Ludlam's a grafter but I want to see Willis, Earl, Dombrandt for the next match.

Progress of a sorts. Nice to see the England forwards dominating, but the second display was immensely frustrating. Maybe they were told to kick, everything but anyone with half a brain cell could see we didn't need to do that. I reckon I knew that at 14.

Farrell had shocker, Slade was meh, Lawrence did a good 12 job. JVP was mediocre, Mitchell looked much sharper when he came on. All the starting forwards did a good job IMO.

Slade was worse than meh, he did nothing good and a huge amount bad.

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:00 pm Ludlam's a grafter but I want to see Willis, Earl, Dombrandt for the next match.

Ludlum is undroppable at the moment.

Much better physicality, line speed, etc. this week. Willis bought a huge amount and set the tone the others could follow. Lawrence fulfilled his remit and set a platform with first phase carrying.

But... It was only Italy though, it has to be said. They might be improving, had their moments in patches (in fact played the best rugby when it stuck), but on the whole still a ton of weaknesses in their set up and that was a pretty poor performance from them, especially first half. Some due to us, a lot though their own making.

And for the defensive improvement, didn’t think much of the attacking game/structure and what we did with the ball. Considering we were winning the gain line, collisions, set piece, etc at will, didn’t do enough with it for me. That for all the dominance of several facets it was pushover tries and took till 70+ mins to get a score from something resembling open play was a bit disappointing in my opinion. Way too imprecise and lacking any real control on phase play still and too much kicking at the wrong moment. Shown nothing to worry the top tier teams as of yet.

Dragster wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:04 pm

Prembore wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:00 pm Ludlam's a grafter but I want to see Willis, Earl, Dombrandt for the next match.

Ludlum is undroppable at the moment.

I’m happy to see his name on the sheet.

Earl also doesn't really know how not to push it all the time. So he's always a penalty risk. Willis gave the best performance from an England 7 since Tom Curry's early days - why change that?

I agree with Woodward on one thing, the substitutions didn’t work, it was management by spreadsheet.

That went better than I’d feared but worse than the level we need to be at.
You have to start by remembering a week ago Italy should have beaten France and tore holes in them, they never did that today.

We can tick another couple of things off the list of colossal failings - line out/maul was excellent as was Lawrence.
Backline was very meh, Slade was awful and the kicking has already been done to death. Noteworthy every back (including Smith) were going for grubbers so clearly a tactic rather than the Great Satan that is Faz ad libbing. Regardless, bin it, we had five on threes on a number of occasions without testing them.

Defence largely pretty solid. Cole is a liability and needs hiding, his scrummaging does seem effective so can understand persisting with him.

Overall, job done for now, banana skin avoided, bring on the Welsh

Well that was rather joyless.

Still no idea where we're at, all that match really seems to have demonstrated is that we can out-maul a smaller Italian pack.

Might be enough to do Wales if they're as poor as I think they are. Maybe not.

Smith trying to create something from nothing with a kick through out wide on halfway in the last minutes isn't quite the same thing as repeatedly blowing attacking opportunities by kicking the ball into the dead goal area or straight to defenders, but I see we have the narrative now

Italy looked knackered, played their cup final last week.

sefton wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:09 pm I agree with Woodward on one thing, the substitutions didn’t work, it was management by spreadsheet.

Nah. If there's a time to throw on the likes of Arundell, Isiekwe, Earl etc.to give them more caps and pull off important starters like Genge and Willis so as not to expose them to injury risk, it's when 20 points to the good against Italy.

I can take kicking as a tactical choice generally but doing it in the oppo 22 unless there's absolutely nothing else on is crazy. It's like they're constantly trying to recreate that match against France a few years ago

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:13 pm Smith trying to create something from nothing with a kick through out wide in the last minutes isn't quite the same thing as repeatedly blowing attacking opportunities by kicking the ball into the dead goal area or straight to defenders, but I see we have the narrative now

It’s not so much the narrative as the blindingly obvious. You don’t have to defend everything he does.

You can’t read anything into his cameo either way, particularly with the centre pairing he had.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:15 pm

sefton wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:09 pm I agree with Woodward on one thing, the substitutions didn’t work, it was management by spreadsheet.

Nah. If there's a time to throw on the likes of Arundell, Isiekwe, Earl etc.to give them more caps and pull off important starters like Genge and Willis so as not to expose them to injury risk, it's when 20 points to the good against Italy.

No, you do that with a settled and confident team, not a team that still doesn’t have a shape.