NPR

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:41 am New Leicester coach announced - Dan McKellar, the Aussies forwards coach and previously head coach at the ACT Brumbies

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... head-coach

A fun snippet in the piece for Eddie-watchers/haters:

"With forwards coach McKellar and scrum coach Petrus du Plessis both resigning [from the Australian coaching team] on Wednesday, Jones, the former England coach, is now without any of the assistant coaching staff employed by his predecessor, Dave Rennie."

Not surprised no one wants to work under Eddie after his increasingly fractious regime in England.

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:41 am New Leicester coach announced - Dan McKellar, the Aussies forwards coach and previously head coach at the ACT Brumbies

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... head-coach

A fun snippet in the piece for Eddie-watchers/haters:

"With forwards coach McKellar and scrum coach Petrus du Plessis both resigning [from the Australian coaching team] on Wednesday, Jones, the former England coach, is now without any of the assistant coaching staff employed by his predecessor, Dave Rennie."

Not surprised no one wants to work under Eddie after his increasingly fractious regime in England.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 12:15 pm The Earl thing IS weird. I can see some criticisms of him being valid - he doesn't seem very clever on the rugby pitch, he's often prone to brainfarts and being a bit loose, which can translate to a number of different things - but he's hugely skilled, high impact, and while you can point to individual errors he's made off the bench he's also done a lot of good stuff, far more than Ben Curry.

He's an ideal bench option for me. Can play 7 or 8, ups the tempo, can do something to turn the match, is a huge problem for the opposition to deal with when they've spent all game trying to deal with the different challenges presented by the starting backrow. Where does Ben Curry surpass him?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:53 pm As I noted elsewhere, England are retreating to the mean when it comes to selection. It's a selection designed for average.

I feared Borthwick was not the right man for the job and said so before he was appointed. He's a low risk, low return coach just like he was as a player. He'll use statistics to confirm his 'logical' choices so regardless of performance, style or result he can post-rationalise and say to himself and his critics that he followed the logical path and the process led him to the team he selected. The trouble with using logic like that is that it kills magic. Result; the big, heavy slow lump who can catch is seen as more vital than the shorter, lighter player who has great footwork and lightening pace or Ben Curry gets picked instead of Ben Earl.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:34 pm I agree that Borthers isn't the 'Bazball' choice - but I'm willing to give him more time before condemning him. He has, at least, binned Youngs and brought in the likes of Chessum, OHC, Malins, Arundell etc.. It's step change up from Eddie. He's also working to a very tight timescale leading up to the WC - I'd like to see what he does with the side when the WC is over and he has a free rein to build a new team.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:52 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:34 pm I agree that Borthers isn't the 'Bazball' choice - but I'm willing to give him more time before condemning him. He has, at least, binned Youngs and brought in the likes of Chessum, OHC, Malins, Arundell etc.. It's step change up from Eddie. He's also working to a very tight timescale leading up to the WC - I'd like to see what he does with the side when the WC is over and he has a free rein to build a new team.

This is where I'm surprised at how tentative he's been so far in his changes.

As you say, fair enough it looks like he's binned Youngs, but he's been left a mess, & he has to pick his starting SH, OH, 12, & get a replacement for Mako, who's blowing out his arse before he's run on the pitch.

He's got very few games to work out who he's going take to France, & he's running out of minutes to work out if the likes of Rapava-Ruskin can step up.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:04 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:52 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:34 pm I agree that Borthers isn't the 'Bazball' choice - but I'm willing to give him more time before condemning him. He has, at least, binned Youngs and brought in the likes of Chessum, OHC, Malins, Arundell etc.. It's step change up from Eddie. He's also working to a very tight timescale leading up to the WC - I'd like to see what he does with the side when the WC is over and he has a free rein to build a new team.

This is where I'm surprised at how tentative he's been so far in his changes.

As you say, fair enough it looks like he's binned Youngs, but he's been left a mess, & he has to pick his starting SH, OH, 12, & get a replacement for Mako, who's blowing out his arse before he's run on the pitch.

He's got very few games to work out who he's going take to France, & he's running out of minutes to work out if the likes of Rapava-Ruskin can step up.

He's limited to how many changes he can make to the EPS. I suspect he'll take a much larger group to the world cup camp, and try a few out at the warmups.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:34 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:53 pm As I noted elsewhere, England are retreating to the mean when it comes to selection. It's a selection designed for average.

I feared Borthwick was not the right man for the job and said so before he was appointed. He's a low risk, low return coach just like he was as a player. He'll use statistics to confirm his 'logical' choices so regardless of performance, style or result he can post-rationalise and say to himself and his critics that he followed the logical path and the process led him to the team he selected. The trouble with using logic like that is that it kills magic. Result; the big, heavy slow lump who can catch is seen as more vital than the shorter, lighter player who has great footwork and lightening pace or Ben Curry gets picked instead of Ben Earl.

I agree that Borthers isn't the 'Bazball' choice - but I'm willing to give him more time before condemning him. He has, at least, binned Youngs and brought in the likes of Chessum, OHC, Malins, Arundell etc.. It's step change up from Eddie. He's also working to a very tight timescale leading up to the WC - I'd like to see what he does with the side when the WC is over and he has a free rein to build a new team.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:31 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:04 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:52 pm

This is where I'm surprised at how tentative he's been so far in his changes.

As you say, fair enough it looks like he's binned Youngs, but he's been left a mess, & he has to pick his starting SH, OH, 12, & get a replacement for Mako, who's blowing out his arse before he's run on the pitch.

He's got very few games to work out who he's going take to France, & he's running out of minutes to work out if the likes of Rapava-Ruskin can step up.

He's limited to how many changes he can make to the EPS. I suspect he'll take a much larger group to the world cup camp, and try a few out at the warmups.

Ahhhh. I'd forgotten about that

That does hamstring him.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:44 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:34 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:53 pm As I noted elsewhere, England are retreating to the mean when it comes to selection. It's a selection designed for average.

I feared Borthwick was not the right man for the job and said so before he was appointed. He's a low risk, low return coach just like he was as a player. He'll use statistics to confirm his 'logical' choices so regardless of performance, style or result he can post-rationalise and say to himself and his critics that he followed the logical path and the process led him to the team he selected. The trouble with using logic like that is that it kills magic. Result; the big, heavy slow lump who can catch is seen as more vital than the shorter, lighter player who has great footwork and lightening pace or Ben Curry gets picked instead of Ben Earl.

I agree that Borthers isn't the 'Bazball' choice - but I'm willing to give him more time before condemning him. He has, at least, binned Youngs and brought in the likes of Chessum, OHC, Malins, Arundell etc.. It's step change up from Eddie. He's also working to a very tight timescale leading up to the WC - I'd like to see what he does with the side when the WC is over and he has a free rein to build a new team.

Yep, exactly this.

A by-product of having a large player pool and a pretty flat Premiership is that there will always be selection debates, whoever is coach.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:48 pm Please explain the grubber tactic then? That was clearly something practiced on the training pitch.

Wales’s Six Nations match against England this weekend is set to go ahead after crunch talks.

Sources close to negotiations have confirmed that this Saturday’s Test is expected to take place as planned, with players and officials from the Welsh Rugby Union and Professional Rugby Board locked in tense discussions throughout Wednesday afternoon.

Players had threatened to go on strike after they were proposed reduced contracts with fixed-variable pay bands, and in return had asked for an end to the national team’s 60-cap selection rule and a player representation on the PRB to have their say on the future of the game.

More to follow...

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:15 pm From the Telegraph

Wales’s Six Nations match against England this weekend is set to go ahead after crunch talks.

Sources close to negotiations have confirmed that this Saturday’s Test is expected to take place as planned, with players and officials from the Welsh Rugby Union and Professional Rugby Board locked in tense discussions throughout Wednesday afternoon.

Players had threatened to go on strike after they were proposed reduced contracts with fixed-variable pay bands, and in return had asked for an end to the national team’s 60-cap selection rule and a player representation on the PRB to have their say on the future of the game.

More to follow...

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:28 pm Happy the game is going to go ahead, very concerned it's going to be a massive bananaskin. Wales may not have been training, but they're really going to have something to prove. I know it's the 6 nations and they're all big games, but when there's something so personal on the line, it'll kick things up a notch.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:15 pm From the Telegraph

Wales’s Six Nations match against England this weekend is set to go ahead after crunch talks.

Sources close to negotiations have confirmed that this Saturday’s Test is expected to take place as planned, with players and officials from the Welsh Rugby Union and Professional Rugby Board locked in tense discussions throughout Wednesday afternoon.

Players had threatened to go on strike after they were proposed reduced contracts with fixed-variable pay bands, and in return had asked for an end to the national team’s 60-cap selection rule and a player representation on the PRB to have their say on the future of the game.

More to follow...

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:40 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:15 pm From the Telegraph

Wales’s Six Nations match against England this weekend is set to go ahead after crunch talks.

Sources close to negotiations have confirmed that this Saturday’s Test is expected to take place as planned, with players and officials from the Welsh Rugby Union and Professional Rugby Board locked in tense discussions throughout Wednesday afternoon.

Players had threatened to go on strike after they were proposed reduced contracts with fixed-variable pay bands, and in return had asked for an end to the national team’s 60-cap selection rule and a player representation on the PRB to have their say on the future of the game.

More to follow...

Gavin Mairs is usually one of the more accurate rugby correspondents so fingers crossed.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:55 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:48 pm Please explain the grubber tactic then? That was clearly something practiced on the training pitch.

Best ask Farrell !!

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:23 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:55 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:48 pm Please explain the grubber tactic then? That was clearly something practiced on the training pitch.

Best ask Farrell !!

Farrell was rubbish and should have known better but he would never do that for his club. Smith did the same as soon as he came on and even Earl did it. That was coach-led.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:30 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:23 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:55 pm

Best ask Farrell !!

Farrell was rubbish and should have known better but he would never do that for his club. Smith did the same as soon as he came on and even Earl did it. That was coach-led.

They clearly identified Italy's weakness in exiting from deep in their 22 - but I doubt the coaches asked them to kick away overlaps - that's down to the player/s to use their heads. Anyway, we've done that one to death.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:30 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:23 pm


Farrell was rubbish and should have known better but he would never do that for his club. Smith did the same as soon as he came on and even Earl did it. That was coach-led.

They clearly identified Italy's weakness in exiting from deep in their 22 - but I doubt the coaches asked them to kick away overlaps - that's down to the player/s to use their heads. Anyway, we've done that one to death.

Not really - it ties in with how Borthwick is preparing the team to play. Remember how Borthwick's Leicester played?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:30 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:23 pm


Farrell was rubbish and should have known better but he would never do that for his club. Smith did the same as soon as he came on and even Earl did it. That was coach-led.

They clearly identified Italy's weakness in exiting from deep in their 22 - but I doubt the coaches asked them to kick away overlaps - that's down to the player/s to use their heads. Anyway, we've done that one to death.

Not really - it ties in with how Borthwick is preparing the team to play. Remember how Borthwick's Leicester played?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:58 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:30 pm

They clearly identified Italy's weakness in exiting from deep in their 22 - but I doubt the coaches asked them to kick away overlaps - that's down to the player/s to use their heads. Anyway, we've done that one to death.

Not really - it ties in with how Borthwick is preparing the team to play. Remember how Borthwick's Leicester played?

Quite. His Tigers were a very pragmatic bunch who kicked a lot. Ford provided some sparkle to make the difference every now and then.

I suspect we shan't see quite so much kicking away of good ball in future fixtures, but because the players were crap at it and picked poor moments to do so rather than because it was only in the very specific plan to take on Italy.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:40 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:58 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm



Not really - it ties in with how Borthwick is preparing the team to play. Remember how Borthwick's Leicester played?

Quite. His Tigers were a very pragmatic bunch who kicked a lot. Ford provided some sparkle to make the difference every now and then.

I suspect we shan't see quite so much kicking away of good ball in future fixtures, but because the players were crap at it and picked poor moments to do so rather than because it was only in the very specific plan to take on Italy.

Being pragmatic is a good thing.

Tuilagi, 31, was given the suspension for an elbow to the head of Saints' Tommy Freeman at a citing hearing.

The ban will be cut to three games if he attends a World Rugby coaching workshop to improve tackle technique.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:57 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:30 pm

They clearly identified Italy's weakness in exiting from deep in their 22 - but I doubt the coaches asked them to kick away overlaps - that's down to the player/s to use their heads. Anyway, we've done that one to death.

Not really - it ties in with how Borthwick is preparing the team to play. Remember how Borthwick's Leicester played?

Yeah - OK - Borthers told Farrell that he was, in all circumstances, to kick Grubbers their 22, regardless of any overlaps.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:40 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:58 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 6:48 pm



Not really - it ties in with how Borthwick is preparing the team to play. Remember how Borthwick's Leicester played?

Quite. His Tigers were a very pragmatic bunch who kicked a lot. Ford provided some sparkle to make the difference every now and then.

I suspect we shan't see quite so much kicking away of good ball in future fixtures, but because the players were crap at it and picked poor moments to do so rather than because it was only in the very specific plan to take on Italy.

Being pragmatic is a good thing.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 22, 2023 11:42 pm Leicester weren't known for kicking the ball away after their kicking game had produced territorial advantage, and it's wildly disingenous to claim they did. Leicester wanted ball in hand near the oppo 22 because they trusted their power game and their ability to convert from set pieces. There's a huge difference between kicking from halfway/40m out when you're outnumbered and kicking as the option on good attacking ball.


On another, note, how fucking ridiculous is this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64723422

Tuilagi, 31, was given the suspension for an elbow to the head of Saints' Tommy Freeman at a citing hearing.

The ban will be cut to three games if he attends a World Rugby coaching workshop to improve tackle technique.

Manu was the fucking ball carrier

Joost wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:23 am Being reported in several places that Watson will come in for OHC and Lawes in for Itoje(!), who is benched. Otherwise no changes from last week.

Thought Maro was decent against Italy and not sure about the wisdom of parachuting Lawes straight back in with no recent game time. OHC is injured apparently, though hasn’t made much of an impact - thought he might be in trouble anyway.