NPR

epwc wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:42 am Tories first reform second here

Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:31 am

_Os_ wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:19 am Baker exit interview on ITV is worth a watch, sounds like a total loony. Keeps repeating "I am free at last thank god". 1911 National Insurance Act. Attacking George Osborne who was on the ITV panel even though he said nothing. Black site renditions during the war on terror. Money supply. Ed Balls bullying him.

Truss kept everyone waiting, was dragged onto the stage, no exit interview and was pursued by the media through the halls out of the building as she fled.

Maybe Truss running away was the better option.

Truss' reaction was when the iron clad self certainty of the incompetent meets the AP shell of reality.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:54 am 65% of the seats on 34% of the vote. Is good for the undemocratic flaws in FPTP to benefit Labour.

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:02 am

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:54 am 65% of the seats on 34% of the vote. Is good for the undemocratic flaws in FPTP to benefit Labour.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:54 am 65% of the seats on 34% of the vote. Is good for the undemocratic flaws in FPTP to benefit Labour.

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:13 am Pretty much. Even as a Labour voter this is clearly going to be a problem as a multi party landscape becomes the norm.

Oxbow wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:44 am Woke up to see Labour gain from Conservative, very happy with that.

tc27 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:24 am

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:13 am Pretty much. Even as a Labour voter this is clearly going to be a problem as a multi party landscape becomes the norm.

A Reform/Conservative coalition would be the likely outcome of a PR election...something to reflect on.

SaintK wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:28 am

Oxbow wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:44 am Woke up to see Labour gain from Conservative, very happy with that.

Same here
It appears that most of Hertfordshire has gone that way!

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:30 am I'd say Lab/LD would be more likely in that spread

FWIW pure PR clearly has significant issues, but so does the current system whilst there are so many players.

Raggs wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:34 am

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:30 am I'd say Lab/LD would be more likely in that spread

FWIW pure PR clearly has significant issues, but so does the current system whilst there are so many players.

Thing is, we can't really tell. FPTP skews the vote nearly as much as it skews the seats. Who knows what percentages parties would actually get if them winning wasn't dependant on fptp. However, in the percentages above, I think it would depend on the system we have in place. Potentially Lab would be asked first if they can create a majority (need 51%), they'd need Lab/Lib/Grn or similar, if they can't, then Con get a go as the 2nd largest party. Equally, it might be a case of if Con can demonstrate they can create a party first, they get it?

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am Bizarre election. Tories and the SNP as governing parties both delivered an absolute punishing. Tories will attempt to claim it could have been worse, but it couldn’t really.

Hard to know what to say for the Tories. At least in 2019 the equation for Labour was simple - don’t run with a leader who has contempt for the values of much of the country and unpopular economic policies. The Tories are squeezed from both sides: Labour and Lib Dems have taken their seats, but it’s Reform who took their voters. No sympathy - they torched their record for economic competence at every chance they got, have fundamentally broken the link between hard work and a better life, and have lied to their voters, and lied to their own voters about their immigration plans four elections running. One has to wonder - what on earth did they expect to happen?

SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Labour have done well to detoxify. But they have barely shifted their vote numbers, and this majority is a quirk of FPTP rather than anything else. I cannot help feeling that their contact with government will end in disaster, and soon.

Reform blew it with their scandals and Ukraine comments. They weren’t a million miles away from smashing through. They’ll be a force on the right for time to come. Migration isn’t disappearing as an issue.

This is the first election where you’d have to bury your head in the sand to not see voting along Asian ethnic lines as a major phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed. I cry no tears for Ashworth et al, who have been happy to have fairly conservative Islam as a running mate and vote bank for years. The same applies to the Tories round me, who lean heavily on the BJP radical Hindu networks. It’ll bite them in the arse some day too. The franchise needs to be restricted to citizens, as a starting point.

Overall, a necessary result. If Labour can’t sort the country out the next election will be funky. Gutted I didn’t stay up for Truss

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:30 am I'd say Lab/LD would be more likely in that spread

FWIW pure PR clearly has significant issues, but so does the current system whilst there are so many players.

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:42 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am Bizarre election. Tories and the SNP as governing parties both delivered an absolute punishing. Tories will attempt to claim it could have been worse, but it couldn’t really.

Hard to know what to say for the Tories. At least in 2019 the equation for Labour was simple - don’t run with a leader who has contempt for the values of much of the country and unpopular economic policies. The Tories are squeezed from both sides: Labour and Lib Dems have taken their seats, but it’s Reform who took their voters. No sympathy - they torched their record for economic competence at every chance they got, have fundamentally broken the link between hard work and a better life, and have lied to their voters, and lied to their own voters about their immigration plans four elections running. One has to wonder - what on earth did they expect to happen?

SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Labour have done well to detoxify. But they have barely shifted their vote numbers, and this majority is a quirk of FPTP rather than anything else. I cannot help feeling that their contact with government will end in disaster, and soon.

Reform blew it with their scandals and Ukraine comments. They weren’t a million miles away from smashing through. They’ll be a force on the right for time to come. Migration isn’t disappearing as an issue.

This is the first election where you’d have to bury your head in the sand to not see voting along Asian ethnic lines as a major phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed. I cry no tears for Ashworth et al, who have been happy to have fairly conservative Islam as a running mate and vote bank for years. The same applies to the Tories round me, who lean heavily on the BJP radical Hindu networks. It’ll bite them in the arse some day too. The franchise needs to be restricted to citizens, as a starting point.

Overall, a necessary result. If Labour can’t sort the country out the next election will be funky. Gutted I didn’t stay up for Truss

Truss was ousted at like 7am! You could've woken up for it.

The voting on Islamic lines is down Labours response to Gaza. If Corbyn was leader they wouldn't have lost those votes. (Granted Labour would lose the election). Is it good to have single issue voters on a foreign conflict we aren't that involved in? No. Is it any worse than the voters who abandoned Labour over Iraq? Probably not.

Also, franchise is already citizens of the UK or some commonwealth countries for general elections?

petej wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:54 am Pretty good to see the greens with 4 MPs which didn't seem to be predicted.

_Os_ wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 6:19 am Baker exit interview on ITV is worth a watch, sounds like a total loony. Keeps repeating "I am free at last thank god". 1911 National Insurance Act. Attacking George Osborne who was on the ITV panel even though he said nothing. Black site renditions during the war on terror. Money supply. Ed Balls bullying him.

Truss kept everyone waiting, was dragged onto the stage, no exit interview and was pursued by the media through the halls out of the building as she fled.

Maybe Truss running away was the better option.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am
SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Jock42 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:05 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am
SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Hopefully it's reflected at the next Holyrood election where it makes a bigger point. They "held" this seat by 2%, 2 bloody percent.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am Bizarre election. Tories and the SNP as governing parties both delivered an absolute punishing. Tories will attempt to claim it could have been worse, but it couldn’t really.

Hard to know what to say for the Tories. At least in 2019 the equation for Labour was simple - don’t run with a leader who has contempt for the values of much of the country and unpopular economic policies. The Tories are squeezed from both sides: Labour and Lib Dems have taken their seats, but it’s Reform who took their voters. No sympathy - they torched their record for economic competence at every chance they got, have fundamentally broken the link between hard work and a better life, and have lied to their voters, and lied to their own voters about their immigration plans four elections running. One has to wonder - what on earth did they expect to happen?

SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Labour have done well to detoxify. But they have barely shifted their vote numbers, and this majority is a quirk of FPTP rather than anything else. I cannot help feeling that their contact with government will end in disaster, and soon.

Reform blew it with their scandals and Ukraine comments. They weren’t a million miles away from smashing through. They’ll be a force on the right for time to come. Migration isn’t disappearing as an issue.

This is the first election where you’d have to bury your head in the sand to not see voting along Asian ethnic lines as a major phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed. I cry no tears for Ashworth et al, who have been happy to have fairly conservative Islam as a running mate and vote bank for years. The same applies to the Tories round me, who lean heavily on the BJP radical Hindu networks. It’ll bite them in the arse some day too. The franchise needs to be restricted to citizens, as a starting point.

Overall, a necessary result. If Labour can’t sort the country out the next election will be funky. Gutted I didn’t stay up for Truss

Biffer wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:10 am

Jock42 wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:05 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am
SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Hopefully it's reflected at the next Holyrood election where it makes a bigger point. They "held" this seat by 2%, 2 bloody percent.

The SNP problem is the same thing that infected Labour in Scotland for decades. There’s a group of people in the west of Scotland that used to treat the Labour Party as a career for life, would follow and implement whatever policies they were told to, without any real beliefs, so long as they kept the succession of jobs. A whole whack of those switched to the SNP when they became dominant. So the bulk of the SNP lost its passion for its main aim. It needs to gut these people out of the party and get its fire back.

Backing for independence hasn’t gone down, it’s still at the level of the Indy ref or higher.

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:51 am

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:42 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:31 am Bizarre election. Tories and the SNP as governing parties both delivered an absolute punishing. Tories will attempt to claim it could have been worse, but it couldn’t really.

Hard to know what to say for the Tories. At least in 2019 the equation for Labour was simple - don’t run with a leader who has contempt for the values of much of the country and unpopular economic policies. The Tories are squeezed from both sides: Labour and Lib Dems have taken their seats, but it’s Reform who took their voters. No sympathy - they torched their record for economic competence at every chance they got, have fundamentally broken the link between hard work and a better life, and have lied to their voters, and lied to their own voters about their immigration plans four elections running. One has to wonder - what on earth did they expect to happen?

SNP feel done. They’ve had a near perfect decade of conditions to achieve their one aim, and it feels further away than ever. They rabbit holed into mad identity politics, gave up on competence and ran out of options for achieving independence. Given results, they can’t even credibly keep up their bollocks claim that Scotland is some progressive nirvana when compared to the fascist voting English.

Labour have done well to detoxify. But they have barely shifted their vote numbers, and this majority is a quirk of FPTP rather than anything else. I cannot help feeling that their contact with government will end in disaster, and soon.

Reform blew it with their scandals and Ukraine comments. They weren’t a million miles away from smashing through. They’ll be a force on the right for time to come. Migration isn’t disappearing as an issue.

This is the first election where you’d have to bury your head in the sand to not see voting along Asian ethnic lines as a major phenomenon, and it needs to be addressed. I cry no tears for Ashworth et al, who have been happy to have fairly conservative Islam as a running mate and vote bank for years. The same applies to the Tories round me, who lean heavily on the BJP radical Hindu networks. It’ll bite them in the arse some day too. The franchise needs to be restricted to citizens, as a starting point.

Overall, a necessary result. If Labour can’t sort the country out the next election will be funky. Gutted I didn’t stay up for Truss

Truss was ousted at like 7am! You could've woken up for it.

The voting on Islamic lines is down Labours response to Gaza. If Corbyn was leader they wouldn't have lost those votes. (Granted Labour would lose the election). Is it good to have single issue voters on a foreign conflict we aren't that involved in? No. Is it any worse than the voters who abandoned Labour over Iraq? Probably not.

Also, franchise is already citizens of the UK or some commonwealth countries for general elections?

I’d been up most of the night! ‘Some Commonwealth Countries’ includes India and Pakistan, which is an issue

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:44 am

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:51 am

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jul 05, 2024 7:42 am

Truss was ousted at like 7am! You could've woken up for it.

The voting on Islamic lines is down Labours response to Gaza. If Corbyn was leader they wouldn't have lost those votes. (Granted Labour would lose the election). Is it good to have single issue voters on a foreign conflict we aren't that involved in? No. Is it any worse than the voters who abandoned Labour over Iraq? Probably not.

Also, franchise is already citizens of the UK or some commonwealth countries for general elections?

I’d been up most of the night! ‘Some Commonwealth Countries’ includes India and Pakistan, which is an issue

Ah okay, I think it's a smaller issue as the Independents will all lose their seats in 2029 as I assume Gaza won't be a topic that people are so exercised by as they'll be some sort of resolution. It's not like they're winning on overtly Islamic policy which would be a much bigger problem.