NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:32 am

GogLais wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 8:18 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 7:29 am

And from a government who complain about union members striking. When really people pissing about on the internet or with social media apps is a much bigger hit to productivity, vastly bigger in fact. Yes they'll probably claim it's work related, but I'd hazard a guess whilst related it may all too often bear little resemblance to work

There’s that as well but I was thinking more of the record-keeping aspect of it.There’s a lot to be said for a good old-fashioned file.

I was listening to an interesting discussing between a few political historians who aren't quite clear how future historians will track decision making in the internet age. Memos etc last longer and offer a much clearer trail.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:24 am Drip, drip, drip.

The Conservative party’s high-profile mayor, Ben Houchen, has again been accused of secrecy after plans for a third transfer of public assets in his north-east England region were leaked to the Financial Times.
Houchen, mayor of the Tees Valley, privately struck a deal with Hartlepool council to take control of the community’s key civic buildings in a process that has not previously been public.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:// ... fbb5bc

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 1:15 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 9:24 am Drip, drip, drip.

The Conservative party’s high-profile mayor, Ben Houchen, has again been accused of secrecy after plans for a third transfer of public assets in his north-east England region were leaked to the Financial Times.
Houchen, mayor of the Tees Valley, privately struck a deal with Hartlepool council to take control of the community’s key civic buildings in a process that has not previously been public.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https:// ... fbb5bc

The Labour MP, Andy McDonald, who cited Ben Houchen's activities as entailing industrial scale corruption (or some such) has just refused to repeat that claim without parliamentary privilege, looks like McDonald will now more be taking the line his comments have drawn interest that have helped initiate some much needed investigation into just what's been going on. Ben Houchen has been quite happy to simply go public saying Andy McDonald is a liar.

Whether McDonald's words were best phrased or not what's transpired does rather stink from the outside, and I don't see any way Private Eye if nothing else are backing down from continuing to report on something they simply perceive as wrong, the FT are also now on board for looking into this and one would imagine that interest will only grow/widen. I haven't seen the reasons set out by Gove for the inquiry as to how that should work and what will be looked at, it'd hardly be beyond Gove to go for a cover up

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:12 pm BB gets the jump on Rishi

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 5:39 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 4:12 pm BB gets the jump on Rishi

Which can mean only one thing. Whatever is in it will completely fuck someone who stands in his way.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:22 pm Well, clearly then they have nothing to hide...

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:33 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:22 pm

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:40 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:33 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:22 pm

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

BB clearly believes this is the way to rehabilitate himself, and the relationship between him and Sunak turned very sour the longer his Government ran. This could get ugly ( we hope!)

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:40 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:33 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:22 pm

Well this is going to end well for them.
Boris is going to knife the bastards that knifed him and I expect a few briefings and leaks very soon.

BB clearly believes this is the way to rehabilitate himself, and the relationship between him and Sunak turned very sour the longer his Government ran. This could get ugly ( we hope!)

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:00 pm Surely the judicial review is going to demand the messages so that they can determine if they're relevant or not?

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:04 pm I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:31 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:04 pm I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:14 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:31 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:04 pm I don't know what the equivalent here is of a "special master", but that's what's needed to independently determine relevance. And independent does not mean some QC who knows very well they owe a Cabinet Minister a favour / hoping for a K - although that's highly likely what would happen in the current state of affairs

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

Special masters seem to be joint efforts, where both sides nominate some acceptable lawyers to review, & screen the material, they agree on enough from this pool of lawyers to do the review, but then all of these lawyers have to go thru the clearance process to make sure they can safely review the worst case classification content in the material.

All of this would just be a burden for a single Judge who has enough work to do, it's better to delegate given the sheer quantity of material that likely would need to be reviewed.

There is going to be irrelevant, & National security information in this, but if the Judge's delegates can review this, un-redacted material & agreed with their Government counterparts on it's irrelevance, then there'll be no problems. The problems are the Government handing over blank sheets of paper, or none at all, & patting the Inquiry on the head & telling them not to worry.

If they want to do that shit they shouldn't have even pretended to have it in the first place.

What absolutely MUST NOT HAPPEN is that the Judge should resign & let the Tories choose a nice compliant poodle.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:08 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:14 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:31 pm

KC, just saying. It was in the news and everything

Not sure why they'd need a special master, the judge should be able to review and act within the confines of what's being asked of them, indeed that seems rather the point. And yet oddly we've got the government acting to sabotage their own enquiry and a former PM who's willing to disclose something, but possibly not everything depending on how many phones he was using

Special masters seem to be joint efforts, where both sides nominate some acceptable lawyers to review, & screen the material, they agree on enough from this pool of lawyers to do the review, but then all of these lawyers have to go thru the clearance process to make sure they can safely review the worst case classification content in the material.

All of this would just be a burden for a single Judge who has enough work to do, it's better to delegate given the sheer quantity of material that likely would need to be reviewed.

There is going to be irrelevant, & National security information in this, but if the Judge's delegates can review this, un-redacted material & agreed with their Government counterparts on it's irrelevance, then there'll be no problems. The problems are the Government handing over blank sheets of paper, or none at all, & patting the Inquiry on the head & telling them not to worry.

If they want to do that shit they shouldn't have even pretended to have it in the first place.

What absolutely MUST NOT HAPPEN is that the Judge should resign & let the Tories choose a nice compliant poodle.

There aren't two sides in this, there's the Covid Inquiry appointed by HMG, and HMG. And the Covid Inquiry isn't a single judge, it's chaired by Baroness Hallett but she's not alone in the work, and you'd rather think they'd already have ensured people would have the right security status to review relevant material.

The Judge doesn't need someone telling them what they can have access to, it's not a prosecution and defence situation. It's just we've the very odd situation of HMG instigating a report, and than acting to stall their own inquiry, and further someone who's a point of possible interest the inquiry claiming they're happy to have their info turned over whilst very possibly having withheld documentation. We don't though need another judge to review what the first judge can be told to pursue the inquiry that's the job of the first judge

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:44 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:01 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:44 pm

All of the pandemic now is a bit of a blur to me but I do remember sitting around in the sun with my friends Monday - Thursday loving a bit of eat out to help out. It was probably the high moment of covid. So yes not sensible maybe but what a good time it was in all the horrendousness of it all.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:35 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:01 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:44 pm

All of the pandemic now is a bit of a blur to me but I do remember sitting around in the sun with my friends Monday - Thursday loving a bit of eat out to help out. It was probably the high moment of covid. So yes not sensible maybe but what a good time it was in all the horrendousness of it all.

Yeah, I hope there isn't too much revisionism in this. As I remember, most people thought it was a stupid fucking idea but did it anyway, as the alterative was a bit depressing, and we knew the risks. Those that didn't want to stayed at home.

Bob Stewart: Conservative MP charged with racially aggravated abuse

Conservative MP Bob Stewart has been charged with two public order offences.

The Metropolitan Police said the MP for Beckenham was being prosecuted over an incident in central London last December.

One charge relates to an allegation of racially-aggravated abuse, the force said.

He also faces an alternative charge of threatening or abusive words or behaviour likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress.

He will appear Westminster Magistrates' Court on 5 July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65814126

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:38 pm Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:50 am

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:38 pm Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:50 amWas still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:50 am The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:09 am I know it's not a quick renovation, but a lot of empty office space seems like a great chance to increase housing, without building on greenbelt etc.

Raggs wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:09 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:50 am

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:38 pm Eat out to help out was nothing more than spunking treasury money to get Sunak's face plastered about and promote people to start heading out and prep for the "go back to offices" campaign (and no, I don't think Sunak needed shoves from property donors)

Nothing more, nothing less. It wasn't for hospitality finances, morale, or anything else. By Sunak. For Sunak.

Was still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

I know it's not a quick renovation, but a lot of empty office space seems like a great chance to increase housing, without building on greenbelt etc.

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:41 pm So by election is on the cards in Rutherglen. Pretty much a shoe in for Labour given the SNPs implosion and the history of recent elections.

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 11:56 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:50 amWas still good though, half prize food and a few beers with your friends in the sun before the relentless misery of October - March.

Don't really care why it was done, it did raise morale. Was probably good for people to get off furlough for a bit of time too as they were back on it September to March at least.

I'm somewhat coloured on the opposite as it didn't align strategic objectives and anecdotal experience. A chunk of my friends in catering/hospitality were fucked off by companies in March when we dallied between "don't go to pubs, but we won't close the pubs", or got mucked around in the "Boris will save Christmas, get those stocks ordered!". The cavalier approach played the same in delivering rishi's self promotion. For those that lost jobs and even the furlough "opportunity" (eg wider scale spoons), they would prefer a year of stability over 2 months of excess.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 8:50 am The go back to offices campaign is pretty valid tbf as well. Commercial property is a bed rock of a lot of people's pensions/investments and loans are pretty significant for banks. Obviously, they aren't being honest about the motives but the government bailing out the sector would be ££££. And also their friends lose a lot of cash but still it's not all the corrupt reason.

As someone that went back to the office from early Jan21 (and now detests personally WFH) I'm not exactly in the "back to office bad" camp - but so much pointed even in late August that it just wouldn't happen and worked against the case management. The U-turns on ideology reasons were unnecessarily costly for businesses.

Tldr I'm very much a "do stuff for the wrong reasons and more often than not we will get the wrong results"