Tories are toast now! Expect lots of Tory infighting, more pressure on Sunak, more radical culture wars crap, media and others switching allegiances, more small boats diatribe, more Tory MPs standing down at net GE, etc. It is going to get very messy as the Tory Party goes under - I expect the call for Farage to come riding across the horizon on his white stallion to be even louder now and for the Tory Party to transmogrify into the new NatC Party. Dangerous watershed point for the UK, or should I say Little England?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:44 am
by colonel
This thread certainly seems to be having the desired effect.
Kudos
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:46 am
by SaintK
sturginho wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 9:56 am
The Tory candidate in Tamworth seems like a pleasant sort of chap
So the day after another 47 schools are added to the "falling apart" list, Keegan gets her priorities in order.
The Department for Education said Keegan has written to teaching unions, “inviting them to discuss proposals on a voluntary basis in the first instance” that would keep schools open in some form during strikes. If they failed to reach an agreement, Keegan said she would open a consultation on imposing minimum service levels in schools and colleges, using legislation passed in July.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:21 am
by dpedin
SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 10:08 am
So the day after another 47 schools are added to the "falling apart" list, Keegan gets her priorities in order.
The Department for Education said Keegan has written to teaching unions, “inviting them to discuss proposals on a voluntary basis in the first instance” that would keep schools open in some form during strikes. If they failed to reach an agreement, Keegan said she would open a consultation on imposing minimum service levels in schools and colleges, using legislation passed in July.
Distraction move - get folk talking about this instead of the disastrous by election results! It will probably never happen!
while the UK has FPTP voting, the fringe nutters will only be an inconvenience to the bigger parties; if you change to PR, the game will change completely
The fringe nutters drove Brexit and led to Farage being a major player in UK politics, and Truss, Braverman and Johnson etc holding the senior offices.
We are not protected by the FPTP voting system at all, in my view.
I've always thought about it the other way around.
With FPTP, they never got any seats, & the POV of the people who voted for them never got acknowledged, & so eventually got shown to be complete bollox; so their voters somehow felt they were being ripped off.
I'm in favour of some kind of PR, but I remember the Tories clinging on and John Major being in thrall to the DUP. I can see the argument that FPTP means that kind of situation is less likely, but it's not impossible.
Do this for a few Election cycles, & you get yet another knob end, disconnected, Tory leader out of Eton+Oxford ignores decades of experience from Countries that actually do Referendums regularly, & who; surprise surprise, decides that he knows better than people who've done this shit for decades, & who have voters who've done this shit for decades.
There were a line of Irish PMs, who'd held & lost Referendums, in exactly this kind of circumstance, who saw the potential outcome, & warned about it; but they were Irish, & so were ignored.
I remember arguing with an Irish-exiter, she said that the Irish government were just asking the question until they got the outcome they wanted, which was not the way I saw it all. The pig-heads here had all sorts of examples to look at, like you say in Ireland and from experts (we all know about experts) like Prof Michael Dougan of Liverpool Uni, who wasn't advising one way or the other, he was just outlining the potential potholes, all of which have been proven correct.
The internet definition of a fuckwit is someone who will not listen to others and refuses to take advice. They really are fuckwits.
There's a damn good reason that the Irish CS started planning for Brexit the day after Cameron announced the plan for the referendum, & it's not because they had any particular foresight; but more because they understood the capacity for the Tories to fuck it up !
I've gotten past the anger, now I'm just sad at the state we are in
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:32 am
by fishfoodie
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:35 am
by Paddington Bear
The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:45 am
by tabascoboy
Seeing Tories like Andrea Jenkyns blaming low voter apathy and turnout. Well yes - you keep telling yourselves that...
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:52 am
by SaintK
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:45 am
Seeing Tories like Andrea Jenkyns blaming low voter apathy and turnout. Well yes - you keep telling yourselves that...
.......and Cabinet Minister's in denial. Though she doesn't appear to know a "swing" from a "switch"
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:54 am
by Margin__Walker
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:35 am
The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch
It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'
True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:09 pm
by tabascoboy
Open season on leadership challenges in four days....but you'd have to think it would be untenable to have yet another PM with no mandate from a GE
Quite a variety of opinions in the Twittersphere on what's going wrong - but mostly:
Sunak is weak, out-of-touch and the current government do not espouse true Conservative values!;
UK needs hard Trussonomics and cut taxes!
Stop the boats! Leave the ECHR! Deny Multiculturalism! Defy Net Zero!
Very few seem to concern themselves with the effects of Brexit, high energy costs, crisis in the NHS, crumbling schools, failing public services, fraudulent /corrupt use of public finds...
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:29 pm
by Hal Jordan
They will cling on until the very last second, culture warring, poisoning wells and ransacking the public purse so that when they are punted, the country will be so fucked that Labour will essentially be able to put a band aid on the stump of a freshly severed limb, and the electorate, with its famously long memory, will blame Starmer for the continued shithole we live in and go back to The Natural Party Of Government.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:35 am
The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch
It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'
True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.
Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:45 am
Seeing Tories like Andrea Jenkyns blaming low voter apathy and turnout. Well yes - you keep telling yourselves that...
.......and Cabinet Minister's in denial. Though she doesn't appear to know a "swing" from a "switch"
Why aren't these ungrateful voters thanking me for doing such a fucking good job?
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:35 am
The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch
It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'
True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.
Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 11:35 am
The Tories seem in a bizarre state of denial about the mood of the country and their chances in an election, really odd to watch
It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'
True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.
Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out
I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:22 pm
by Ymx
Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.
They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.
It's so odd. All they have is 'the country isn't enthused by Labour'
True, but they absolutely hate you, so I'm not sure that's the life raft you think it is.
Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out
I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970
Keir Starmer 1 - 0 Tony Blair
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:07 pm
by C69
Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:22 pm
Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.
They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.
Sorry to derail the thread !
As you were …
Whereas the level of competence shown by the incumbent government has been.....
Err wait a minute.
Btw I may even go out and vote Labour at the next election.
Something I have not done this century.
Hopefully Starmer will have a big enough mandate to jettison his wishy washy views and deliver a radical vision.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 3:09 pm
by Insane_Homer
Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:22 pm
Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.
They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.
Right. I think Labour will do a pretty poor job and have no enthusiasm for them, but I’m sick to the back teeth of the Tories and they deserve to be booted out
I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970
SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:17 pm
I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and will vote Labour for the first time in my life. I've been voting in general elections since 1970
Keir Starmer 1 - 0 Tony Blair
Chapeau
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 4:10 pm
by Stranger
Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 2:22 pm
Labour will be awful for the country, I can’t bring myself to vote for them ever.
They just strike me as utter incompetent morons even when they are not in charge of the country. So god save us next year.
Sorry to derail the thread !
As you were …
So you will vote for the proven incompetent morons because you think the others will be incompetent morons?
So you will vote for the proven incompetent morons because you think the others will be incompetent morons?
Better the incompetent morons you know.
Stockholm syndrome?
Indeed.
That and the school fees thing.
Perhaps move to an area with decent State Schools.
Regarding the school fees issue, Starmer needs a kick in the balls for watering down his stance.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:02 pm
by sockwithaticket
Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.
If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.
Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:14 pm
by Dinsdale Piranha
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:02 pm
Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.
If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.
Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).
Will that include a ban on home schooling?
What about tutoring?
A ban on sending your kids to schools overseas?
A ban on kids from overseas paying to come to school in the UK?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:28 pm
by Tichtheid
I wouldn't ban private schooling, but I'd definitely go with full VAT, or VAT plus on the fees and also end the charitable status and make them pay tax on their profits. I'd also increase corporation tax and go after tax dodgers big time, they cost a fuck of a lot more than the odd swinger of lead who has a crafty job on the side and claims the dole.
Then we invest heavily in education, all the way up from primary to tertiary level, but including vocational training for those who might not need a degree, or indeed are not suited to that level of education. The chartered engineering institutes were saying that we should be doing this forty years ago.
Universities are on their knees, they haven't had a price bump in fees for over a decade, the government are washing their hands of it and their costs are rising, the only way they can increase their income is by taking in more students and, as per usual, their isn't the reciprocal increased investment the staffing levels to cope with increased numbers.
Yet another area where the Tories have failed miserably since 2010.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:02 pm
Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.
If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.
Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).
Will that include a ban on home schooling?
Yes. It is another instance of sequestering children away from society. My experience of teaching a formerly homeschooled girl is that she had been indoctrinated in Christianity to an extent that's pretty unusual in this country. RE lessons involving the discussion of other faiths were very challenging as she either attempted to say that they were all false or ask to be excused from the lessons.
There should be some in extremis provision allowed for such as in cases of extreme disability where a mainstream education would be near impossible and temporary permission where not allowing so would lead to a break in education. Able bodied children, even those with behavioural issues, should be in some form of in person, communal education. Social development is very much part of schooland that's very difficult to achieve from home.
Another element is the monitoring of potential safeguarding issues. Very difficult to pick up on potential abuse if adults other than a child's parents rarely ever get to see them.
For all of the above reasons, I am highly sceptical of any parent who wants to homeschool.
What about tutoring?
Impossible to functionally regulate a ban. Ideally additional assistance would be proscribed through schools based upon students' needs, but we're a long way from being able to achieve that.
A ban on sending your kids to schools overseas?
Probably functionally difficult to ban, but I really don't see why someone resident in the UK should be sending their children abroad for primary or secondary age education.
A ban on kids from overseas paying to come to school in the UK?
While a case could be made for children who need to be sent from their home country overseas for their own safety, mainly people paying for their children to be educated here rather than at home are the elites of a country seeking to avoid their children associated with their masses.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 9:15 pm
by Tichtheid
Just catching up with tonight's HIGNFY after the semi final.
The Evening Standard apparently ran a headline this week that said "Chris Pincher's seat is up for grabs"
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:02 pm
Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.
If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.
Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).
Will that include a ban on home schooling?
What about tutoring?
A ban on sending your kids to schools overseas?
A ban on kids from overseas paying to come to school in the UK?
Just make it compulsory for public representatives to have their children attend state schools, for the duration of their time in office, & the same for accessing health services.
I fucking guarantee you they'd pay more attention to the quality of the public services then !!!
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2023 5:02 pm
Labour should be pledging to abolish private schools for the same reason faith schools shouldnt exist - portions of society should not be allowed to simply sequester themselves away from everyone else, developing in a bubble.
If the kids of the wealthiest in society have to do their developing among regular folk, they'd be much more well rounded individuals who have a greater appreciation of the realities for the overwhelming majority of the population who can't afford to send their kids off to bastions of privilege.
Not to mention that it would also invest those wealthy parents in the success of the state education system. Currently they can ignore it and know that their kids are probably going to be fine, screw everyone else. If little Tarquin and Jemima were in state schools, there's no way the Tories would have cancelled Labour's funding for school infrastructure or ignore the teaching crisis (both recruitment and retention).
Will that include a ban on home schooling?
What about tutoring?
A ban on sending your kids to schools overseas?
A ban on kids from overseas paying to come to school in the UK?
Just make it compulsory for public representatives to have their children attend state schools, for the duration of their time in office, & the same for accessing health services.
I fucking guarantee you they'd pay more attention to the quality of the public services then !!!
My goal would be to make state schooling better than any private school, it's a cliché, education is that silver bullet to a more egalitarian society, but it needs investment.
Teachers should make crazy salaries, sports and arts facilities should be the very best.
The easiest way to get rid of the snobbery and cliques of these private schools is to make state schools the best option
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 9:50 am
by sturginho
I'm shit, the system is shit, so why is nobody thanking me??
To the surprise of no one, having been told using hydrogen to heat homes is completely stupid, the legislative arm of the fossil fuel industry has confirmed it will continue its support for hydrogen boilers.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 1:35 pm
by tabascoboy
Yes, these really are the things weighing most heavily of all on the minds of voters
Sunak Mulls Stamp Duty, Top Earner Tax Cuts to Win Back Voters
Raising 40% income tax threshold, stamp duty cuts on the table
Tories seek to galavanize voters after losing two key seats
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 3:26 pm
by Insane_Homer
Premature celebration, oh deary me.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2023 5:23 pm
by dpedin
Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:34 am
To the surprise of no one, having been told using hydrogen to heat homes is completely stupid, the legislative arm of the fossil fuel industry has confirmed it will continue its support for hydrogen boilers.
Bamford, JCB guy and large Tory donor, has a company Ryze Hydrogen, that deals in hydrogen fuel industry, headed up by his son! Investment in hydrogen generally is a favour to Bamford for significant donations to the Tory Party and paying for much of Boris's expenses whilst PM and letting him stay in property he either owned or paid for.
You couldn't honestly make this crookedness up, feckin blatant!
