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Maximum conspiracy theory would be v Leinster in the Heineken Cup.inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:41 pm I wonder what the odds are for George Ford getting a season ending injury in his next game out.
I really, really hope it's not that. I hate the game at the moment.SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:39 pmQuite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm Absolutely did not see that coming.
No doubt his family have taken a pasting from keyboard warriors
Sarries will delighted mind you.
Ford been playing very well for SaleInsane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:57 pm Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.
Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.
I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).
Yep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessarySaintK wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:39 pmQuite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm Absolutely did not see that coming.
No doubt his family have taken a pasting from keyboard warriors
Sarries will delighted mind you.
I'd think it would be Ford, much as I rate Smith. I'd not be too unhappy either way.Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:57 pm Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.
Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.
I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).
Ford will be 34 at the next world cup. Certainly that's getting on, but not an unselectable age, particularly for a fly half.Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:57 pm Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.
Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.
I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).
Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though
30 caps for England now, not so much blooding as increasingly blind hope at this stageInsane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:57 pm Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.
Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.
I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).
.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pmOf course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though
Yeah sport is in a funny space full stop on this. I remember Jonny Bairstow and the media hitting the roof when he got called fat by Aussie fans in the last away Ashes. He was/is fat! He’s a pro sportsman! Taking some shit, particularly at the games, is part and parcel of the job.tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:15 pm.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pmOf course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though
Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.
A bit like Farrell then, only he's up to 100 and something caps of blind hope he'll stop being a pumpkin. Positives to both for sure, but plenty that hasn't worked, and really too much that hasn't workedPaddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:41 pm30 caps for England now, not so much blooding as increasingly blind hope at this stageInsane_Homer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:57 pm Interesting to see if they go with Ford or continue to blood Marcus @ 10 now.
Form says Ford should be the obvious starter but Marcus needs unhindered time as the first choice if he's going to be the choice to the next WC.
I really don't see any reason to mix/match them - stick with one (except maybe against Italy).
Agree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:15 pm.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pmOf course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though
Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.
Frankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugbySlick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:17 pmAgree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:15 pm.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:40 pm
Of course. I among a lot of others have been exceptionally critical of Ben Youngs’ last five years or so in an England shirt, I haven’t gone after him as a person though
Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.
On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.
Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby
Nah it's very obvious and snarlyRhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:36 pmFrankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugbySlick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:17 pmAgree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.tc27 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:15 pm
.
Theres a fairly clear line that far to many people cross (making negative or even threatening comments directly to the player online or in person) but there's a little bit of a suggestion in the media today that any kind of criticism of a players performance or selection is unacceptable and is causing players MH issues.
On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.
Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby
Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.
Very likely it's a ronseal moment, thus it would seem odd in life. But some people do use the word somewhat differently, mind the person saying to Oliver's baby probably didn't have aggression in their voice, and my guess is the person shouting at Farrell and his child did.Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:01 pmNah it's very obvious and snarlyRhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:36 pmFrankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugbySlick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:17 pm
Agree, supporters having a debate is all part of sport, it would be fairly shit without that, but actually directing criticism or threats directly (either in person or social media) is just pathetic.
On the bolded bit, I read Alex Lowe in the Times going on about that whilst forgetting that his fellow ST journo, Stuart Barnes, has been a vociferous critic of Farrell. The fact that Barnes is completely unreadable doesn't excuse it.
Also, anyone seen the video doing the rounds of the Sale supporter screaming "CUNT" at Farrell with his 3 year old daughter on his shoulders. It still honestly surprises me to see something like that in rugby
Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.
Also a massive difference to saying something to a mate and yelling something at someone. It’s definitely a cultural difference between us and the States that we tend to insult our matesRhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:14 pmVery likely it's a ronseal moment, thus it would seem odd in life. But some people do use the word somewhat differently, mind the person saying to Oliver's baby probably didn't have aggression in their voice, and my guess is the person shouting at Farrell and his child did.Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:01 pmNah it's very obvious and snarlyRhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:36 pm
Frankly it seems odd that exists in life not just rugby
Or maybe it was being shouted at his daughter, and as an endearment? Highly unlikely, but I know John Oliver does a story on how one just doesn't hear the C word based in America and then on a visit back to the UK a stranger looked down on his new born child and said something to the effect 'oh he's a lovely little cunt ain't he', and Oliver was shocked to hear it, shocked to hear it directed at a child, and then realised actually it's just a normal word for lots of people.
My own standards would be I cannot see why it's acceptable to shout even just wanker at the referee or a player, people are there with their kids and it's not appropriate even if you are happy with some of the more colourful turns of phrase. Rubbish or wrong would seem to be apt if you must shout a negative
I do wonder how much of this is to actually stop him from being selected when out of form and not playing as well as others?Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:05 pmYep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessarySaintK wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:39 pmQuite! He doen't deserve all the shit and personal abuse that comes with his selection.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:17 pm Absolutely did not see that coming.
No doubt his family have taken a pasting from keyboard warriors
Sarries will delighted mind you.
What?petej wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:55 pmI do wonder how much of this is to actually stop him from being selected when out of form and not playing as well as others?Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:05 pmYep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessary
I don't think Borthwick or Jones have done him any favours by selecting him regardless of form or how the team was playing without him over the last 4 years. Giving him the captaincy was always a mistake.
He should give examples, or it just sounds like you can't criticise performance and touch the precious one. Which isn't to say some writes haven't gone OTT, I can't say I read most of them. Because he has all too often stank the place out in some very limited England performances, even allowing for he does offer a good number of positives
Quins well worth the win.
He led the side well in France and grew into the role.petej wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:55 pmI do wonder how much of this is to actually stop him from being selected when out of form and not playing as well as others?Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 4:05 pmYep. Bloke gave his all and never leant in to the pantomime villain stuff as he could have done. Sad he feels this is necessary
I don't think Borthwick or Jones have done him any favours by selecting him regardless of form or how the team was playing without him over the last 4 years. Giving him the captaincy was always a mistake.
Glaws playing as if they've been on the piss all week. Bar a couple of handling errors Bristol would have had 40 at half timesockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:36 pm Glaws are trash. Getting pumped by a mediocre Bristol team.
Lawes was immense - really going to miss him in an England shirt - tough to find a replacement close to his quality.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:58 pm Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap
Tend to feel for England he's one of those you'd select for the individual but maybe not select for the team if he's being picked at flanker, the old best players vs best team argument. That said he's hardly the only English flanker with some stilted ideas of how to go about supporting play on attack.Ovals wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:41 pmLawes was immense - really going to miss him in an England shirt - tough to find a replacement close to his quality.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:58 pm Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap
Cracking game though and well deserved win for the Saints - they are head and shoulders improved from last season.
Eh?Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:21 amTend to feel for England he's one of those you'd select for the individual but maybe not select for the team if he's being picked at flanker, the old best players vs best team argument. That said he's hardly the only English flanker with some stilted ideas of how to go about supporting play on attack.Ovals wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:41 pmLawes was immense - really going to miss him in an England shirt - tough to find a replacement close to his quality.Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:58 pm Lawes led a ferocious Saints defensive effort. Sarries were crap
Cracking game though and well deserved win for the Saints - they are head and shoulders improved from last season.