NPR

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:53 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:47 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:14 am So just hours after Rishi met the Head of the Met and some common ground was found.
Guess who has an interview and claims left wing protests and causes are treated more favourable than those by right wing groups.

Go girl

Is she actually trying to get sacked? She is certainly starting her thrust for leadership early.

Then mad Nad on the Beeb spouting conspiracy theories.
Brilliant

Would be interested to know just who is pulling her strings. She appears too thick to be doing this of her own accord!

She definitely is trying to get sacked.

And agree Saint, someone is planning this with her. Although I read yesterday that she only has the support of about 40 MP's. Also, seems a bit of a strange time to be doing this, the Torys are going to get whacked at the GE so why not wait until after that - most evidence so far seems to point to the fact that Rishi going more right wing and appealing to specific groups isn't really working anyway so who thinks going full tonto is going to work?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:21 am

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:53 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:47 am
Would be interested to know just who is pulling her strings. She appears too thick to be doing this of her own accord!

She definitely is trying to get sacked.

And agree Saint, someone is planning this with her. Although I read yesterday that she only has the support of about 40 MP's. Also, seems a bit of a strange time to be doing this, the Torys are going to get whacked at the GE so why not wait until after that - most evidence so far seems to point to the fact that Rishi going more right wing and appealing to specific groups isn't really working anyway so who thinks going full tonto is going to work?

As to the timing of this, perhaps she knows something that we don't - an early GE next May?

“Right-wing and nationalist protesters who engage in aggression are rightly met with a stern response yet pro-Palestinian mobs displaying almost identical behaviour are largely ignored, even when clearly breaking the law? I have spoken to serving and former police officers who have noted this double standard. Football fans are even more vocal about the tough way they are policed as compared to politically connected minority groups favoured by the left. It may be that senior officers are more concerned with how much flak they are likely to get than whether this perceived unfairness alienates the majority. The government has a duty to take a broader view.”

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:05 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:51 am “Balanced” Piers trying to trot out the garbage media line, but not all of them are inciting genocide.

A banal equivalent to that argument would be that if some Rangers supporters are sectarian bigots who have run guns into Northern Ireland for loyalist paramilitary terrorists you should never go to a match at Ibrox.

I know someone who was convicted of that offence, or rather I know his sibling.

The answer is of course that Rangers do not belong to the extremists, likewise protests calling for peace and a ceasefire do not belong to extremists

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:18 am oops, I made the mistake of not looking at the source, I thought it was an actual journalist who was talking there, but it's Douglas Murray ffs.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:32 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:18 am oops, I made the mistake of not looking at the source, I thought it was an actual journalist who was talking there, but it's Douglas Murray ffs.

I genuinely hope this is intended as a joke. But I fear it’s only slightly a joke, and that you’re serious - you refuse to listen to those you disagree with.

inactionman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:38 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:32 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:18 am oops, I made the mistake of not looking at the source, I thought it was an actual journalist who was talking there, but it's Douglas Murray ffs.

I genuinely hope this is intended as a joke. But I fear it’s only slightly a joke, and that you’re serious - you refuse to listen to those you disagree with.

I think it's more a reluctance to consider the writings of certain people to be authoritative, sincere and honest representations.

Agreeing with someone isn't the same as trusting them or valuing their opinion.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:05 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:51 am “Balanced” Piers trying to trot out the garbage media line, but not all of them are inciting genocide.

A banal equivalent to that argument would be that if some Rangers supporters are sectarian bigots who have run guns into Northern Ireland for loyalist paramilitary terrorists you should never go to a match at Ibrox.

I know someone who was convicted of that offence, or rather I know his sibling.

The answer is of course that Rangers do not belong to the extremists, likewise protests calling for peace and a ceasefire do not belong to extremists

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:43 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:38 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:32 am

I genuinely hope this is intended as a joke. But I fear it’s only slightly a joke, and that you’re serious - you refuse to listen to those you disagree with.

I think it's more a reluctance to consider the writings of certain people to be authoritative, sincere and honest representations.

Agreeing with someone isn't the same as trusting them or valuing their opinion.

In the context, it was someone making a point. It was a very salient point, and didn’t rely on statistics. So to start stomping around like a child with fingers in ears seemed inappropriate.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:57 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:05 am


A banal equivalent to that argument would be that if some Rangers supporters are sectarian bigots who have run guns into Northern Ireland for loyalist paramilitary terrorists you should never go to a match at Ibrox.

I know someone who was convicted of that offence, or rather I know his sibling.

The answer is of course that Rangers do not belong to the extremists, likewise protests calling for peace and a ceasefire do not belong to extremists

Leaping straight to the jar of internet cliches is the quick and easy rebuttal and means you don't have to engage with the proposition. "Strawman" is a favourite of some.

This is not a straw man argument, it is a comparison and I stand by it, not all groups are defined by a subsection of that group. As was said before by someone else, the Brexiteers were happy with, or turned a blind eye to having some racists in their midsts, that does not mean that everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 10:43 am Any group will contain at least 3 anti semites.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:53 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:47 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:14 am So just hours after Rishi met the Head of the Met and some common ground was found.
Guess who has an interview and claims left wing protests and causes are treated more favourable than those by right wing groups.

Go girl

Is she actually trying to get sacked? She is certainly starting her thrust for leadership early.

Then mad Nad on the Beeb spouting conspiracy theories.
Brilliant

Would be interested to know just who is pulling her strings. She appears too thick to be doing this of her own accord!

She definitely is trying to get sacked.

And agree Saint, someone is planning this with her. Although I read yesterday that she only has the support of about 40 MP's. Also, seems a bit of a strange time to be doing this, the Torys are going to get whacked at the GE so why not wait until after that - most evidence so far seems to point to the fact that Rishi going more right wing and appealing to specific groups isn't really working anyway so who thinks going full tonto is going to work?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:02 am
Some right wingers are hoping that a one term government of Labour trying and failing to fix the mess the Tories will be leaving behind will be enough for the electorate to forget who made the mess in the first place and vote them back in.That would be gambling on the idea that people are just fed up of an extended period of Tory rule and the sleaze of the Johnson era rather than being fundamentally bothered by or simply uninterested in the culture war focus while the public purse is looted and services crumble.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:07 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:02 am
Some right wingers are hoping that a one term government of Labour trying and failing to fix the mess the Tories will be leaving behind will be enough for the electorate to forget who made the mess in the first place and vote them back in.That would be gambling on the idea that people are just fed up of an extended period of Tory rule and the sleaze of the Johnson era rather than being fundamentally bothered by or simply uninterested in the culture war focus while the public purse is looted and services crumble.

I reckon it'll take more than 1 term for the Tories to find enough "decent" MPs to replace the current crop of scum and improve their image in the eyes of the voters. They'll get back into power again, but not before 2014.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:29 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:07 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:02 am
Some right wingers are hoping that a one term government of Labour trying and failing to fix the mess the Tories will be leaving behind will be enough for the electorate to forget who made the mess in the first place and vote them back in.That would be gambling on the idea that people are just fed up of an extended period of Tory rule and the sleaze of the Johnson era rather than being fundamentally bothered by or simply uninterested in the culture war focus while the public purse is looted and services crumble.

I reckon it'll take more than 1 term for the Tories to find enough "decent" MPs to replace the current crop of scum and improve their image in the eyes of the voters. They'll get back into power again, but not before 2014.

Hopefully, but the UK electorate have delivered a lot of disappointment over the last several years.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:38 am

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:47 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:38 am

What about Tory 2019 voters who considered her a piece of shit pre-Home Secretary role & haven't changed their opinion?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:57 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:05 am


A banal equivalent to that argument would be that if some Rangers supporters are sectarian bigots who have run guns into Northern Ireland for loyalist paramilitary terrorists you should never go to a match at Ibrox.

I know someone who was convicted of that offence, or rather I know his sibling.

The answer is of course that Rangers do not belong to the extremists, likewise protests calling for peace and a ceasefire do not belong to extremists

Leaping straight to the jar of internet cliches is the quick and easy rebuttal and means you don't have to engage with the proposition. "Strawman" is a favourite of some.

This is not a straw man argument, it is a comparison and I stand by it, not all groups are defined by a subsection of that group. As was said before by someone else, the Brexiteers were happy with, or turned a blind eye to having some racists in their midsts, that does not mean that everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:28 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:57 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:27 am

Leaping straight to the jar of internet cliches is the quick and easy rebuttal and means you don't have to engage with the proposition. "Strawman" is a favourite of some.

This is not a straw man argument, it is a comparison and I stand by it, not all groups are defined by a subsection of that group. As was said before by someone else, the Brexiteers were happy with, or turned a blind eye to having some racists in their midsts, that does not mean that everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist.

These marches are very specific in topic. They are about tensions between Palestine and Israel, where there is strong hate in display. It’s not unrelated topics like Brexit and racism. The issue is they are inciting hate speech on the topic they are marching for. A more appropriate equivalent would be those marching in theme with racial equality, and some were wearing kkk helmets.

These marches are attracting an increasing level of nasty genocidal hate. Police are not even arresting those calling for Jihad or river to the sea.

There have already been several of these marches. They have not been banned outright. A postponement would be extremely sensible, let alone appropriate policing of them.

Suella is absolutely spot on.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:53 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:47 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:14 am So just hours after Rishi met the Head of the Met and some common ground was found.
Guess who has an interview and claims left wing protests and causes are treated more favourable than those by right wing groups.

Go girl

Is she actually trying to get sacked? She is certainly starting her thrust for leadership early.

Then mad Nad on the Beeb spouting conspiracy theories.
Brilliant

Would be interested to know just who is pulling her strings. She appears too thick to be doing this of her own accord!

She definitely is trying to get sacked.

And agree Saint, someone is planning this with her. Although I read yesterday that she only has the support of about 40 MP's. Also, seems a bit of a strange time to be doing this, the Torys are going to get whacked at the GE so why not wait until after that - most evidence so far seems to point to the fact that Rishi going more right wing and appealing to specific groups isn't really working anyway so who thinks going full tonto is going to work?

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:28 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:57 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:27 am

Leaping straight to the jar of internet cliches is the quick and easy rebuttal and means you don't have to engage with the proposition. "Strawman" is a favourite of some.

This is not a straw man argument, it is a comparison and I stand by it, not all groups are defined by a subsection of that group. As was said before by someone else, the Brexiteers were happy with, or turned a blind eye to having some racists in their midsts, that does not mean that everyone who voted for Brexit was a racist.

These marches are very specific in topic. They are about tensions between Palestine and Israel, where there is strong hate in display. It’s not unrelated topics like Brexit and racism. The issue is they are inciting hate speech on the topic they are marching for. A more appropriate equivalent would be those marching in theme with racial equality, and some were wearing kkk helmets.

These marches are attracting an increasing level of nasty genocidal hate. Police are not even arresting those calling for Jihad or river to the sea.

There have already been several of these marches. They have not been banned outright. A postponement would be extremely sensible, let alone appropriate policing of them.

Suella is absolutely spot on.

The ministerial code says all major interviews and media appearances, both print and broadcast, should "be agreed with the No 10 Press Office".

The prime minister can punish a minister who is deemed to have breached the code. Options can range from demanding a public apology to sacking them.

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:15 pm If we accept that the point of the protests is to call for a cease fire then surely the best day for this to happen is Armistice Day.
You argue about some of the intentions of fringe lunatics at the protests but Armistice Day is actually the perfect Day.
Going by the dictionary definition.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:54 pm

I was engaging with the point you were promoting by posting that video, the specific point being that you (one) should not attend a demo or march if some of those who march alongside you are spouting hate speech.

I don't think you as group of marchers take on responsibility for, or promote the values of the extremists if they join you on a march for peace.

Although his argument is a good way silence any protest right enough.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:55 pm

Several days ago.



Not a chance they will clash, not.a.chance !

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:34 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:15 pm If we accept that the point of the protests is to call for a cease fire then surely the best day for this to happen is Armistice Day.
You argue about some of the intentions of fringe lunatics at the protests but Armistice Day is actually the perfect Day.
Going by the dictionary definition.

It’s a genuinely terrible day to do it. There have already been bad interactions between those wearing/selling Poppie’s and the Palestinian flag wavers.

This is not the great collaboration you think it is. Armistice is not just diluted by this but actually directly threatened by this.

Obviously let’s see, as the pandering met fail to manage it.

Of course you will say, blah blah blah … just fringe lunatics on both sides.

But quite clearly they will not be complimentary side by side protests. Hence why the cenotaph is now going to be shut off to the public.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:22 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:55 pm

Several days ago.



Not a chance they will clash, not.a.chance !

Are you capable of finding sources that aren't weirdo climate change sceptic/anti-vax/culture war baiting mongs? It feels like whenever I try and get a sense of the provenance of any twitter posts you put up here and have a scroll that's all I see.


Defacing cenotaphs is very, very poor form, but two teens have been arrested for that. While two marches may well clash I don't see the vandalism of teenagers as being particularly strong evidence in favour of the prediction.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:10 pm Saturday is going to be an absolute fucking disaster, one that has been a generation in the making. Braverman is only interested in making things worse but it is true the police are incredibly guilty of double standards depending on whether they are scared of the protestors and their political backing or not.