The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

Rowntree, O'Gara, Lancaster are all probably worth looking at. Obviously whether they want to come to Scotland is a different matter.

I like the idea of Laidlaw or Smith but think it's far too soon fir either.

[Tichtheid]

Rowntree, O'Gara, Lancaster are all probably worth looking at. Obviously whether they want to come to Scotland is a different matter.

I like the idea of Laidlaw or Smith but think it's far too soon fir either.

Not Rowntree, I still haven't forgiven him for choosing his mate over Euan Murray for the Lions.

O'Gara would a huge coup, however he has the players at La Rochelle to execute the game plan he wants. I'm not sure that would be the case with Scotland.

[Slick]

Yeah I was so disappointed in the performance last Saturday, especially after starting so well, that I've deleted the recording and only watched the "highlights" once a couple of days ago.

I said elsewhere that something I picked up from those highlights is that for Italy's first try our systems were brutally exposed. Their scrum half acted as first receiver off the lineout and kicked into space that he knew was going to be there because our fullback was defending in the three-quarter line. That is something the Italian analysts had obviously seen in their prep. The very same thing happened for Lynagh's try, there was space for him to run on to because our fullback was defending with the centres. That is not individual player error, that is a defensive system being out-thought before the game started.

Defence is Tandy's remit.

Schoeman was also very much at fault for the try being chalked off, all he had to do was hold his line and not deviate off it and he would've been fine whilst still creating a barrier to the tackle, he didn't have to knock the man over.

That score would have probably put us out of sight

I don't think you can say that with any authority to be honest. I don't recall us defending like that before, so it would mean a completely different system for the Italy game which doesn't seem right. I'm not necessarily blaming one individual as all 3, particularly VDM and BK, have a quite well documented tendency to drift out of position and lose concentration. What the issue with those 3 playing together is that none of them have the guile, seemingly, to dig themselves out of the hole they create. Hogg was brilliant at marshalling the defence, Darcy is great at covering and seeing what is happening, Ollie Smith just doesn't get dragged about like that. Ben White is also a brilliant defensive reader and was missed clearing up.

When Paterson started against France he had Finn dropping back all the time to help him, that didn't seem to be the case on Saturday, I guess because they didn't think they needed it.

The Italian attack off that lineout for their first try was novel, the scrum half played first receiver off the lineout maul and kicked it to a very specific area for his runners to chase - that didn't just happen out of thin air. Horne was sweeping across but the kick was so good he didn't have much of a chance against the two Italian runners who knew exactly where to be.

The Lynagh try looks similar to me in that it looked like Garbisi timed it perfectly, because I think the first one was a very well executed plan I also think he knew where the space would be from that attack, he only needed to glance up to see if it was on. No one stepped out to create a dogleg in the Scottish defence, the numbers were matched up but Garbisi knew how to unlock it

On Schoeman, if he hadn't knocked his man over he would have been okay.

Don't disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is that they probably identified the propensity for individual player errors rather than Scotland's general defence set up, as this has rarely been this issue with the defence system previously.

[Slick]

Rowntree, O'Gara, Lancaster are all probably worth looking at. Obviously whether they want to come to Scotland is a different matter.

I like the idea of Laidlaw or Smith but think it's far too soon fir either.

Would they go back to Vern?

[Jock42]

Rowntree, O'Gara, Lancaster are all probably worth looking at. Obviously whether they want to come to Scotland is a different matter.

I like the idea of Laidlaw or Smith but think it's far too soon fir either.

Would they go back to Vern?

Would they want to now? I don't know what happened with fiji but I think lost the dressing room?

[Tichtheid]

I don't think you can say that with any authority to be honest. I don't recall us defending like that before, so it would mean a completely different system for the Italy game which doesn't seem right. I'm not necessarily blaming one individual as all 3, particularly VDM and BK, have a quite well documented tendency to drift out of position and lose concentration. What the issue with those 3 playing together is that none of them have the guile, seemingly, to dig themselves out of the hole they create. Hogg was brilliant at marshalling the defence, Darcy is great at covering and seeing what is happening, Ollie Smith just doesn't get dragged about like that. Ben White is also a brilliant defensive reader and was missed clearing up.

When Paterson started against France he had Finn dropping back all the time to help him, that didn't seem to be the case on Saturday, I guess because they didn't think they needed it.

The Italian attack off that lineout for their first try was novel, the scrum half played first receiver off the lineout maul and kicked it to a very specific area for his runners to chase - that didn't just happen out of thin air. Horne was sweeping across but the kick was so good he didn't have much of a chance against the two Italian runners who knew exactly where to be.

The Lynagh try looks similar to me in that it looked like Garbisi timed it perfectly, because I think the first one was a very well executed plan I also think he knew where the space would be from that attack, he only needed to glance up to see if it was on. No one stepped out to create a dogleg in the Scottish defence, the numbers were matched up but Garbisi knew how to unlock it

On Schoeman, if he hadn't knocked his man over he would have been okay.

Don't disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is that they probably identified the propensity for individual player errors rather than Scotland's general defence set up, as this has rarely been this issue with the defence system previously.

So the Italian analysts prepared their attack based on the fact that they knew the Scottish defenders would be in a place other than where the Scottish coaches wanted them to be?

[Slick]

The Italian attack off that lineout for their first try was novel, the scrum half played first receiver off the lineout maul and kicked it to a very specific area for his runners to chase - that didn't just happen out of thin air. Horne was sweeping across but the kick was so good he didn't have much of a chance against the two Italian runners who knew exactly where to be.

The Lynagh try looks similar to me in that it looked like Garbisi timed it perfectly, because I think the first one was a very well executed plan I also think he knew where the space would be from that attack, he only needed to glance up to see if it was on. No one stepped out to create a dogleg in the Scottish defence, the numbers were matched up but Garbisi knew how to unlock it

On Schoeman, if he hadn't knocked his man over he would have been okay.

Don't disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is that they probably identified the propensity for individual player errors rather than Scotland's general defence set up, as this has rarely been this issue with the defence system previously.

So the Italian analysts prepared their attack based on the fact that they knew the Scottish defenders would be in a place other than where the Scottish coaches wanted them to be?

Errr, yes, exactly that.

Scotland have never defended the way you are suggesting so the only other explanation is that they were trying a brand new system last week and the Italians got wind of it, which doesn't seem realistic. Also, that no other team had cottoned on to the frailties of the system and had never tried the same as the Italians, which seems equally unrealistic.

I think it was them exploiting known player weaknesses and executing it very well. Like Bryan Habana turning slowly.

[LenCohen]

Not sure it's easy to coach stupidity and panic out of players. Absolutely sick of seeing this crowd implode under the slightest of pressure.

Gatland coached it out of the Welsh. In less time than Townshende has had. Let's not forget get how shite they were in the nineties

I spent a career and most of a lifetime working out people's characters, and what I see in a lot of these Scotland players are mentally soft lads. Most of them are only international players by the benefit of being born with the equivalent of the Scottish rugby silver spoon in their mouths. I'm 55 FFS and I look at the likes of Ritchie, Gilchrist. Fagerson etc and see just soft gym monkeys, nothing more. Lads I really wouldn't trust to back me up in a tough situation. I look at a lot of the Welsh lads and I see something completely different.

Thank you for your service.

[Tichtheid]

Don't disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is that they probably identified the propensity for individual player errors rather than Scotland's general defence set up, as this has rarely been this issue with the defence system previously.

So the Italian analysts prepared their attack based on the fact that they knew the Scottish defenders would be in a place other than where the Scottish coaches wanted them to be?

Errr, yes, exactly that.

Scotland have never defended the way you are suggesting so the only other explanation is that they were trying a brand new system last week and the Italians got wind of it, which doesn't seem realistic. Also, that no other team had cottoned on to the frailties of the system and had never tried the same as the Italians, which seems equally unrealistic.

I think it was them exploiting known player weaknesses and executing it very well. Like Bryan Habana turning slowly.

I think that's a real stretch to be honest, on both examples I gave the defence and attack were numbered up. It wasn't a brand new system, that is exactly my point. If, say, Kinghorn had been defending deep in both cases we'd have been outnumbered in the midfield.

Italy have scored three against England in losing by three points, they drew with France scoring and conceding one try and they got battered by Ireland. I think kudos should go where it's due and that is to the Italian attack, but we let them get back into the game after running away to a good lead.

It's a shame Capuozzo is out for the game against Wales.

[topofthemoon]

Match preview part 2 for Ireland v Scotland:

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... -analysed/

Andrew Porter has been on the winning side in 40 of the last 43 games he has played for Leinster and Ireland, dating back to summer 2022.

[Big D]

Don't disagree with any of that. All I'm saying is that they probably identified the propensity for individual player errors rather than Scotland's general defence set up, as this has rarely been this issue with the defence system previously.

So the Italian analysts prepared their attack based on the fact that they knew the Scottish defenders would be in a place other than where the Scottish coaches wanted them to be?

Errr, yes, exactly that.

Scotland have never defended the way you are suggesting so the only other explanation is that they were trying a brand new system last week and the Italians got wind of it, which doesn't seem realistic. Also, that no other team had cottoned on to the frailties of the system and had never tried the same as the Italians, which seems equally unrealistic.

I think it was them exploiting known player weaknesses and executing it very well. Like Bryan Habana turning slowly.

It was piss weak defence by players taking easy options in defence. Kinghorn easy option to stand as wide as possible and Horne not sweeping hard enough as he's too far inside. Incidently we missed Whites defence last weekend.

It is ridiculously bad defence to lose a try from a kick on basically 1st phase ball to the near side of the posts.

The third try was caused by Steyn taking the easy option by turning in rather than holding his discipline.

I think it was decent heads up rugby by the Italians. Certainly for the 1st two on the third we waved them though for the bust that causes the try.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

So if we lose by 38 today, we'll be 5th. I think. Or if we win by 76 or something, we win the championship!

[topofthemoon]

So if we lose by 38 today, we'll be 5th. I think. Or if we win by 76 or something, we win the championship!

Win by more than 38 we overtake Ireland.

Lose by more than 38 we are overtaken by Italy.

[Blackmac]

Fuck sake. Long throw on a defensive line out. We never learn.

[KingBlairhorn]

Fucking hell, when will we ever learn to stop calling ridiculous line out moves to the tail on our own 5m line?

[charltom]

Ridiculous.

At least Carley seems fair so far.

[KingBlairhorn]

Super frustrating to see our next line out in the Irish 22 go like fucking clockwork to the front pod.

[Big D]

Once again we are doing OK in these games but can't take our chances.

Like Graham in the RWC v SA, Stafford has to give a short pass to Kinghorn who would probably have gotten in.

Steyn had a chance to set Jones away just after too.

Defence very good. Christie playing well. Duhan and Russell having off days so far.

[KingBlairhorn]

We haven’t put two half’s together all tournament and I don’t see us doing it here. Ireland will pull away in the second half due to a combination of brutally efficient rugby and us shitting the bed.

[KingBlairhorn]

Yup, here we go

[KingBlairhorn]

We’ve had our bit of luck because that was a try all day long. No more fuck ups please.

[KingBlairhorn]

Shitting of the bed in full flow now

[Big D]

Can't fault the effort.

Christie was excellent. Not sure why he was the one sacrificed after the yellow.

Some big questions needing asked but not tonight.

[Blackmac]

Never at the races really. As usual not helped but some very dodgy refereeing. Not saying it would have changed the game but we really seem to get more than our share of poor calls.

[Biffer]

Never at the races really. As usual not helped but some very dodgy refereeing. Not saying it would have changed the game but we really seem to get more than our share of poor calls.

I reckon we’re at the races. We’re not charging for the line to win them, but we’re there. Big difference today is we weren’t blown away by their physicality as we’ve been in the past. We’re in the position that a run of luck, or a couple of games where everything clicks, or getting the rub of decisions for a change, means we’re still in the fight. We’ve always needed that - the bounce of the ball in 1990 for example. I still think we need a change in coaching to take us forward, but there are positives to take. The worry, of course, is the same failing in the top 6 inches, over and over again. It took Ireland more than a decade to learn that.

[Slick]

So we need France to win and no England bonus point?

[KingBlairhorn]

Never at the races really. As usual not helped but some very dodgy refereeing. Not saying it would have changed the game but we really seem to get more than our share of poor calls.

I reckon we’re at the races. We’re not charging for the line to win them, but we’re there. Big difference today is we weren’t blown away by their physicality as we’ve been in the past. We’re in the position that a run of luck, or a couple of games where everything clicks, or getting the rub of decisions for a change, means we’re still in the fight. We’ve always needed that - the bounce of the ball in 1990 for example. I still think we need a change in coaching to take us forward, but there are positives to take. The worry, of course, is the same failing in the top 6 inches, over and over again. It took Ireland more than a decade to learn that.

To be honest Bif, I don’t. We were in that game only because Ireland played shite. Even then, we must have had about 25% possession and territory, any other day we would have lost that by 20+. We got the luck on the day (how was that try disallowed, shades of France) and still never looked like winning. Outside of a jamslam sized slice of luck, which in itself was a once in a blue moon occurrence, I just don’t see it.

[Big D]

Never at the races really. As usual not helped but some very dodgy refereeing. Not saying it would have changed the game but we really seem to get more than our share of poor calls.

I reckon we’re at the races. We’re not charging for the line to win them, but we’re there. Big difference today is we weren’t blown away by their physicality as we’ve been in the past. We’re in the position that a run of luck, or a couple of games where everything clicks, or getting the rub of decisions for a change, means we’re still in the fight. We’ve always needed that - the bounce of the ball in 1990 for example. I still think we need a change in coaching to take us forward, but there are positives to take. The worry, of course, is the same failing in the top 6 inches, over and over again. It took Ireland more than a decade to learn that.

To be honest Bif, I don’t. We were in that game only because Ireland played shite. Even then, we must have had about 25% possession and territory, any other day we would have lost that by 20+. We got the luck on the day (how was that try disallowed, shades of France) and still never looked like winning. Outside of a jamslam sized slice of luck, which in itself was a once in a blue moon occurrence, I just don’t see it.

I think the immense defensive effort deserves a good chunk of credit. I agree we never looked like winning but the Ireland performance was.partly because of some terrific defence.

We are definitely entering a period where we will be hoping for performances rather than results. The other sides are rebuilding/rebooting and we are not.

I still think that wasn't a try.

[Slick]

I reckon we’re at the races. We’re not charging for the line to win them, but we’re there. Big difference today is we weren’t blown away by their physicality as we’ve been in the past. We’re in the position that a run of luck, or a couple of games where everything clicks, or getting the rub of decisions for a change, means we’re still in the fight. We’ve always needed that - the bounce of the ball in 1990 for example. I still think we need a change in coaching to take us forward, but there are positives to take. The worry, of course, is the same failing in the top 6 inches, over and over again. It took Ireland more than a decade to learn that.

To be honest Bif, I don’t. We were in that game only because Ireland played shite. Even then, we must have had about 25% possession and territory, any other day we would have lost that by 20+. We got the luck on the day (how was that try disallowed, shades of France) and still never looked like winning. Outside of a jamslam sized slice of luck, which in itself was a once in a blue moon occurrence, I just don’t see it.

I think the immense defensive effort deserves a good chunk of credit. I agree we never looked like winning but the Ireland performance was.partly because of some terrific defence.

We are definitely entering a period where we will be hoping for performances rather than results. The other sides are rebuilding/rebooting and we are not.

I still think that wasn't a try.

I went to a new Irish friends house to watch the game and him and his mates didn’t fucking stop talking to me the entire game so I haven’t really got much chat about it.

From what I did manage to see I also think the defensive effort deserves a lot of credit, and with a bit more belief we could have done that. However, same shit. With a few minutes to go and on the attack a ridiculously risky offload and 90 seconds later we are 3 penalties, a yellow card and a try down.

I think it probably has to be said that I also think this is an Irish side on a downward curve.

[Slick]

England are going to lose but get a last minute bonus point try, aren’t they

[Biffer]

That result puts us fourth.

[Slick]

That result puts us fourth.

Yup. FFS.

[Tichtheid]

Two wins, fourth is what we deserve

We were a wrong TMO decision away from three wins and we really should have held on in Rome for four, but c'est la vie as a Scotland supporter.

Three home wins next year and wins in London and Paris (do-able) will see us get the GS next year - it's on!

[Yr Alban]

Two wins, fourth is what we deserve

We were a wrong TMO decision away from three wins and we really should have held on in Rome for four, but c'est la vie as a Scotland supporter.

Three home wins next year and wins in London and Paris (do-able) will see us get the GS next year - it's on!

TBH I can’t argue. We won 2 from 5 and any higher would have been a travesty.

Yes, we should have won 4, and even today was close in the end, but in order to win a title we either need to improve in an unlikely manner, or for JamSlam conditions to happen.

[Jock42]

Another 2nd half capitulation, aimless kicking, passive defence, impotent attack.

They'll get 2 wins next year, Wales and Italy, unless there's some major changes.

[Blackmac]

Looking at Ireland's second try again it gets even more annoying. Clear obstruction akin to an American football move.

[weegie01]

I think Tom English is pretty much spot on here.

Ireland 17-13 Scotland: 'Unpredictable Scotland go down fighting in wasted chance campaign'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/68589468

[KingBlairhorn]

Another 2nd half capitulation, aimless kicking, passive defence, impotent attack.

They'll get 2 wins next year, Wales and Italy, unless there's some major changes.

Bold to assume we’ll beat Italy

[topofthemoon]

Another 2nd half capitulation, aimless kicking, passive defence, impotent attack.

They'll get 2 wins next year, Wales and Italy, unless there's some major changes.

Bold to assume we’ll beat Italy

Safest not to assume Scotland will beat anyone! But given we'd beaten Italy 13 times in a row and 18 out of the previous 20 and only lost away from home by 2 points after seemingly switching off for about 40 minutes of the game I'd say as predictions go it's not unreasonable.

[topofthemoon]