NPR

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:39 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:26 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:56 pm The rumour on the Quins board is that this stems from Lynagh not putting the work in during his injury layoff, coming back way out of shape, then expecting to be automatic first choice. Things deteriorated from there.

Pinch of salt and all that but it must have been a pretty serious breakdown between player and club for him to not get offered a contract. Feels like a mistake.

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:40 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:39 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:26 pm

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

Yes, what difference does that make to quins not offering him a contract?

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:50 pm Rewatched the game. It’s hardly a classic but as ever I think the ‘unwatchable’ stuff is massively overdone because it’s England.

I thought we did pretty well. Going down to 13 was always going to be a punch in the face and throw a lot of plans out the window. Wales England is always a funny match, and with their tails up any Welsh side becomes very difficult to compete with. The way we managed it deserves some praise.

We’ve been 9 points down two weeks running now, the positive is how well we’re coming back into games which even during the good Eddie years was something we were shit at. George & Ford seem to have pretty level heads as leaders.

Steward was excellent. His flaws are well known but I think he’s indispensable for a side like ours. When we get him a sprint coach can we get him a fucking set of studs as well.

The defensive system looks pretty good. Wales only really cut it open twice - on the try the gap came from Stewart being the man on the inside of the blitz. Last week Italy exploited Marler in the same role. This suggests in general it works pretty well. Let’s see how it goes against Scotland - you’d think Finn could cause it more issues but he struggled a lot against SA’s.

Earl is the closest thing we have to a world class player. Phenomenal again, him and Maro really stepped up when we went down to 13. For me we won the game with that try, it would have been easy to fall apart.

We’re trying something in attack but it looks like we lack confidence. Doesn’t help that Dingwall probably isn’t quite good enough and is holding a shirt for Lawrence. Mitchell/Ford is a 9/10 combo that seems to work. Ford is the perfect ‘system’ 10 for Borthwick and was good again.

I’d like to see CCS start, maybe Underhill dropping out. We need a bit more go forward. Theo Dan can provide some as well from the bench and needs a few more minutes. Dingwall heads to the bench. I like Daly starting and will not be elaborating on this further.

Overall, I’d say we did enough. We were clearly the better side, even accounting for going down to 13 and Wales playing a game we hadn’t prepared for. The side seems much more cohesive and put together, and our composure is decent. I think we have enough to win at Murrayfield, and France have offered nothing in their first two games to fear.

Oh - the ref was just awful to both sides. The penalty try remains bollocks for me, it came down from it’s own momentum with England having the ball sewn up. The conversion fiasco has been covered. WR have an obligation to provide refs who can rise to the occasion, how can NZ produce so many great players and not a single passable ref? A ref struggling with the intensity of France Ireland last year is understandable, yesterday we had two refs who couldn’t cope with two bog standard internationals.

Raggs wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 3:02 pm It definitely wasn't as bad a watch as many tried to claim.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 2:20 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Feb 11, 2024 1:50 pm Rewatched the game. It’s hardly a classic but as ever I think the ‘unwatchable’ stuff is massively overdone because it’s England.

I thought we did pretty well. Going down to 13 was always going to be a punch in the face and throw a lot of plans out the window. Wales England is always a funny match, and with their tails up any Welsh side becomes very difficult to compete with. The way we managed it deserves some praise.

We’ve been 9 points down two weeks running now, the positive is how well we’re coming back into games which even during the good Eddie years was something we were shit at. George & Ford seem to have pretty level heads as leaders.

Steward was excellent. His flaws are well known but I think he’s indispensable for a side like ours. When we get him a sprint coach can we get him a fucking set of studs as well.

The defensive system looks pretty good. Wales only really cut it open twice - on the try the gap came from Stewart being the man on the inside of the blitz. Last week Italy exploited Marler in the same role. This suggests in general it works pretty well. Let’s see how it goes against Scotland - you’d think Finn could cause it more issues but he struggled a lot against SA’s.

Earl is the closest thing we have to a world class player. Phenomenal again, him and Maro really stepped up when we went down to 13. For me we won the game with that try, it would have been easy to fall apart.

We’re trying something in attack but it looks like we lack confidence. Doesn’t help that Dingwall probably isn’t quite good enough and is holding a shirt for Lawrence. Mitchell/Ford is a 9/10 combo that seems to work. Ford is the perfect ‘system’ 10 for Borthwick and was good again.

I’d like to see CCS start, maybe Underhill dropping out. We need a bit more go forward. Theo Dan can provide some as well from the bench and needs a few more minutes. Dingwall heads to the bench. I like Daly starting and will not be elaborating on this further.

Overall, I’d say we did enough. We were clearly the better side, even accounting for going down to 13 and Wales playing a game we hadn’t prepared for. The side seems much more cohesive and put together, and our composure is decent. I think we have enough to win at Murrayfield, and France have offered nothing in their first two games to fear.

Oh - the ref was just awful to both sides. The penalty try remains bollocks for me, it came down from it’s own momentum with England having the ball sewn up. The conversion fiasco has been covered. WR have an obligation to provide refs who can rise to the occasion, how can NZ produce so many great players and not a single passable ref? A ref struggling with the intensity of France Ireland last year is understandable, yesterday we had two refs who couldn’t cope with two bog standard internationals.

Thanks for that. Good summary. Think there are some definite positives and definite work ons. Very much work in progress and not the sum of its parts yet.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:20 pm 32 year old, just back from yet another injury Manu would be such a pointless, regressive selection. We'll almost certainly see it.

I have my reservations about Dingwall - Slade as a partnerhip, but Dingwall at least is a player for the future and Slade may actually be around for the next world cup. Meanwhile chopping and changing selections, casting aside new players after a cap or two, hasn't worked for us in general, perhaps Dingwall is one of those players who needs a run in the team and a few more caps to find his feet. We often see with the Celtic teams that they have to play some guys because they don't really have much choice and those players end up being pretty good after some perserverance.

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:46 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:20 pm 32 year old, just back from yet another injury Manu would be such a pointless, regressive selection. We'll almost certainly see it.

I have my reservations about Dingwall - Slade as a partnerhip, but Dingwall at least is a player for the future and Slade may actually be around for the next world cup. Meanwhile chopping and changing selections, casting aside new players after a cap or two, hasn't worked for us in general, perhaps Dingwall is one of those players who needs a run in the team and a few more caps to find his feet. We often see with the Celtic teams that they have to play some guys because they don't really have much choice and those players end up being pretty good after some perserverance.

I just don't think a Ford/Dingwall/Slade midfield has the right balance - it's just too lightweight - none of them have much of a running game or offer any penetration. and the issue is compounded by a lack of carriers elsewhere in the side - it could be compensated, to some extent if we had more real carriers in the Forwards such as CCS, Genge and Martin.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:00 pm Lawrence I think clearly is coming in for Dingwall. For me, Underhill drops out for CCS. A back row of Roots, Earl, CCS gives us three serious and dynamic ball carriers, as well as one at 12. Otherwise much the same

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:06 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:46 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:20 pm 32 year old, just back from yet another injury Manu would be such a pointless, regressive selection. We'll almost certainly see it.

I have my reservations about Dingwall - Slade as a partnerhip, but Dingwall at least is a player for the future and Slade may actually be around for the next world cup. Meanwhile chopping and changing selections, casting aside new players after a cap or two, hasn't worked for us in general, perhaps Dingwall is one of those players who needs a run in the team and a few more caps to find his feet. We often see with the Celtic teams that they have to play some guys because they don't really have much choice and those players end up being pretty good after some perserverance.

I just don't think a Ford/Dingwall/Slade midfield has the right balance - it's just too lightweight - none of them have much of a running game or offer any penetration. and the issue is compounded by a lack of carriers elsewhere in the side - it could be compensated, to some extent if we had more real carriers in the Forwards such as CCS, Genge and Martin.

It doesn't, but Manu isn't the answer. If I was selecting I'd be going Dingwall - Lawrence or Dingwall - Freeman. I'd also be doing something with the back three because Daly isn't adding much of anything outside of his bootand doggedly chasing kicks. His pace look shot and that's manifested both in opposition players taking him on the outside and his inability to reciprocate. Ideally we'd go for an all pace back three, but Steward won't be dispensed with, so push him onto the wing (as has been done before, so Furbank can go to fullback and then stick Feyi-Waboso/Freeman on the other wing depending on who's playing 13.

Pearson would be another one to add to the pack to up the carrying, he can take Underhill's spot. CCS doesn't start yet for Quins, not sure about starting him internationally.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:39 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:26 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:56 pm The rumour on the Quins board is that this stems from Lynagh not putting the work in during his injury layoff, coming back way out of shape, then expecting to be automatic first choice. Things deteriorated from there.

Pinch of salt and all that but it must have been a pretty serious breakdown between player and club for him to not get offered a contract. Feels like a mistake.

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

A statement read: “Saracens regret to announce that Tom Woolstencroft has retired from rugby with immediate effect. The hooker, who has been one of the great Saracens hookers across his six years at the club. has unfortunately been recovering from concussion for the majority of the 2023/24 campaign and has now been forced into retirement on medical grounds.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:06 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:46 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:20 pm 32 year old, just back from yet another injury Manu would be such a pointless, regressive selection. We'll almost certainly see it.

I have my reservations about Dingwall - Slade as a partnerhip, but Dingwall at least is a player for the future and Slade may actually be around for the next world cup. Meanwhile chopping and changing selections, casting aside new players after a cap or two, hasn't worked for us in general, perhaps Dingwall is one of those players who needs a run in the team and a few more caps to find his feet. We often see with the Celtic teams that they have to play some guys because they don't really have much choice and those players end up being pretty good after some perserverance.

I just don't think a Ford/Dingwall/Slade midfield has the right balance - it's just too lightweight - none of them have much of a running game or offer any penetration. and the issue is compounded by a lack of carriers elsewhere in the side - it could be compensated, to some extent if we had more real carriers in the Forwards such as CCS, Genge and Martin.

It doesn't, but Manu isn't the answer. If I was selecting I'd be going Dingwall - Lawrence or Dingwall - Freeman. I'd also be doing something with the back three because Daly isn't adding much of anything outside of his bootand doggedly chasing kicks. His pace look shot and that's manifested both in opposition players taking him on the outside and his inability to reciprocate. Ideally we'd go for an all pace back three, but Steward won't be dispensed with, so push him onto the wing (as has been done before, so Furbank can go to fullback and then stick Feyi-Waboso/Freeman on the other wing depending on who's playing 13.

Pearson would be another one to add to the pack to up the carrying, he can take Underhill's spot. CCS doesn't start yet for Quins, not sure about starting him internationally.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:42 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:06 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:46 pm

I just don't think a Ford/Dingwall/Slade midfield has the right balance - it's just too lightweight - none of them have much of a running game or offer any penetration. and the issue is compounded by a lack of carriers elsewhere in the side - it could be compensated, to some extent if we had more real carriers in the Forwards such as CCS, Genge and Martin.

It doesn't, but Manu isn't the answer. If I was selecting I'd be going Dingwall - Lawrence or Dingwall - Freeman. I'd also be doing something with the back three because Daly isn't adding much of anything outside of his bootand doggedly chasing kicks. His pace look shot and that's manifested both in opposition players taking him on the outside and his inability to reciprocate. Ideally we'd go for an all pace back three, but Steward won't be dispensed with, so push him onto the wing (as has been done before, so Furbank can go to fullback and then stick Feyi-Waboso/Freeman on the other wing depending on who's playing 13.

Pearson would be another one to add to the pack to up the carrying, he can take Underhill's spot. CCS doesn't start yet for Quins, not sure about starting him internationally.

CCS tends to start brightly then fade pretty quickly, and that's at club level. I definitely don't think he should start ahead of a more experienced 8 like Dombrandt or whoever anyone's personal favourite is. Great bench impact at the moment.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 11:37 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:42 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:06 pm

It doesn't, but Manu isn't the answer. If I was selecting I'd be going Dingwall - Lawrence or Dingwall - Freeman. I'd also be doing something with the back three because Daly isn't adding much of anything outside of his bootand doggedly chasing kicks. His pace look shot and that's manifested both in opposition players taking him on the outside and his inability to reciprocate. Ideally we'd go for an all pace back three, but Steward won't be dispensed with, so push him onto the wing (as has been done before, so Furbank can go to fullback and then stick Feyi-Waboso/Freeman on the other wing depending on who's playing 13.

Pearson would be another one to add to the pack to up the carrying, he can take Underhill's spot. CCS doesn't start yet for Quins, not sure about starting him internationally.

CCS tends to start brightly then fade pretty quickly, and that's at club level. I definitely don't think he should start ahead of a more experienced 8 like Dombrandt or whoever anyone's personal favourite is. Great bench impact at the moment.

Maybe start Genge and when he's subbed off, bring CCS on with the replacement prop - to ensure there's always at least one good, heavy, carrier - possibly also give CCS a little bit more time to make a real impact. Bringing him and Martin on, in the 2nd half, could be handy.

Still not sure about Underhill - he seems to be there as a tacklebot, which he is effective at - but doesn't jackal, carry or link much - I think we can do better !! Probably best not to make too many changes though/.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:19 pm I'm not really seeing what some are (not necessarily here) with Roots.

He looks big and workmanlike as a 6, but I honestly don't see him as the sort of player that would worry the best teams in any way. Goes without saying, but he's a big step down from Lawes in that position for England.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:22 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:19 pm I'm not really seeing what some are (not necessarily here) with Roots.

He looks big and workmanlike as a 6, but I honestly don't see him as the sort of player that would worry the best teams in any way. Goes without saying, but he's a big step down from Lawes in that position for England.

He did basically nothing for the first 25 minutes in his opening game, then made a decent carry and after that the commentators assumed that he had been doing it regularly (the classic "so-and-so has been good" the first time they mention his name). My theory is a lot of Earl's work was credited to Roots, because Earl was everywhere in the first half in particular.

He's a strong bloke and seems a decent heavy carrier but nothing else.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:27 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:22 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:19 pm I'm not really seeing what some are (not necessarily here) with Roots.

He looks big and workmanlike as a 6, but I honestly don't see him as the sort of player that would worry the best teams in any way. Goes without saying, but he's a big step down from Lawes in that position for England.

He did basically nothing for the first 25 minutes in his opening game, then made a decent carry and after that the commentators assumed that he had been doing it regularly (the classic "so-and-so has been good" the first time they mention his name). My theory is a lot of Earl's work was credited to Roots, because Earl was everywhere in the first half in particular.

He's a strong bloke and seems a decent heavy carrier but nothing else.

Yeah, that first game was odd, and the situation was influenced by the lack decent individual performances, but I felt like I was being gaslit when he was being mentioned as having a great game.

He was fine and good on him, but in a way plenty of blindsides in the league could have been in that fixture

Centre Manu Tuilagi has been included in England's initial 36-man squad preparing to face Scotland in the Six Nations at Murrayfield on 24 February.

Tuilagi, 32, has recovered from a groin injury and is joined by hooker Luke Cowan-Dickie and lock George Martin.

Fly-half Marcus Smith and centre Ollie Lawrence will also join the squad as they continue their rehabilitation.

However, hooker Jamie Blamire, flanker Tom Pearson and utility back Oscar Beard drop out.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:50 pm Without ruck marks over a few games I'd not really want to comment. It can be easy to miss a huge amount of work (or a huge lack).

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:00 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:50 pm Without ruck marks over a few games I'd not really want to comment. It can be easy to miss a huge amount of work (or a huge lack).

There's some decent stuff here to dig through.

More from Opta than has previously been available to the public

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/02/six-n ... stats-hub/

Edit - His numbers are fairly decent (dominant carries, gainline success, ruck effectiveness etc). Albeit playing against the two weakest teams so far

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:34 pm Pearson being dropped seems mental.

sturginho wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:30 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:39 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:26 pm

Not getting offered a contract at all, for a clearly talented player, certainly suggests behind the scenes issues.

Doesn’t he qualify for Italy?

We've been trying to convince him for a few years now.

Louis Lynagh has been called up to the Italy squad as they prepare for their upcoming Guinness Six Nations match against France on Sunday, 25 February.
The Treviso-born wing, who will depart Harlequins at the end of this season to join Benetton Rugby, has been selected in the 33-player squad for the upcoming training camp in Rome.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:13 am Is Brn Loader still eligible for England? He had a massive game yesterday against Mapimpi for the Stormers. He has fit in nicely with the Stormers.