NPR

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:13 pm So what??!

Some twat is demanding all other councillors sign what he wants them to, else he will out them.

Knowing quite well what the implications are on security right now with the aggressive Hamas fans.

Simian wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:21 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:13 pm So what??!

Some twat is demanding all other councillors sign what he wants them to, else he will out them.

Knowing quite well what the implications are on security right now with the aggressive Hamas fans.

For MPs, there's a BBC app so you can see how your MP voted on the ceasefire motion

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67438901

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:25 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:13 pm So what??!

Some twat is demanding all other councillors sign what he wants them to, else he will out them.

Knowing quite well what the implications are on security right now with the aggressive Hamas fans.

How people vote and their opinions are usually public knowledge.
The councillor was spot on. Good on them.Now fuck off and stop being offended.

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:46 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:33 am
What I was referring to in that point was the Left v Right viewpoint, nothing to do with Israel. I believe that health, education, utilities, travel infrastructure, defence and other security (police, borders etc) should be funded for the benefit of everyone, there is no real profit to be made in those areas and should not be subject to rapacious market forces where the aim is to reward shareholders, rather than the quality of service being the end goal in of itself.

OTOH, make all the widgets you can and sell them in the private sector, fill your boots, I'm all for it, just pay your taxes.

The ones who seek to make a profit out of the health service or education etc, that is the "they" or "them" I was referring to. I know there are some that will never accept that point of view, hence my admittedly adversarial language. I'd rather win them over, I really would.

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:05 am

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:46 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:33 am
What I was referring to in that point was the Left v Right viewpoint, nothing to do with Israel. I believe that health, education, utilities, travel infrastructure, defence and other security (police, borders etc) should be funded for the benefit of everyone, there is no real profit to be made in those areas and should not be subject to rapacious market forces where the aim is to reward shareholders, rather than the quality of service being the end goal in of itself.

OTOH, make all the widgets you can and sell them in the private sector, fill your boots, I'm all for it, just pay your taxes.

The ones who seek to make a profit out of the health service or education etc, that is the "they" or "them" I was referring to. I know there are some that will never accept that point of view, hence my admittedly adversarial language. I'd rather win them over, I really would.

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:05 am

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:46 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:33 am
What I was referring to in that point was the Left v Right viewpoint, nothing to do with Israel. I believe that health, education, utilities, travel infrastructure, defence and other security (police, borders etc) should be funded for the benefit of everyone, there is no real profit to be made in those areas and should not be subject to rapacious market forces where the aim is to reward shareholders, rather than the quality of service being the end goal in of itself.

OTOH, make all the widgets you can and sell them in the private sector, fill your boots, I'm all for it, just pay your taxes.

The ones who seek to make a profit out of the health service or education etc, that is the "they" or "them" I was referring to. I know there are some that will never accept that point of view, hence my admittedly adversarial language. I'd rather win them over, I really would.

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:40 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:05 am

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:46 am

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

Agree with Tichtheid that those services such as healthcare, education, water & sewage, defence, transport, etc should all be owned and run by the state for the good of the population as a whole.

Water and sewage is an interesting one - I think England is the only country in the world that has privatized its entire water and sewage system. Other areas who have done similar such as some states in US have a pretty poor track record - just look at the Flint debacle in Michigan. Water and sewage is recognised the world over as a public health issue and this was built on the work by Snow and others in eradicating cholera outbreaks in London. Only England privatized its entire system and we all know how badly that has gone. It now appears that c70% of the water companies are owned by non UK companies including from Hong Kong, China, US, Germany, Australia, etc. It has essentially become a cash cow for investment companies and hedge funds who can extract huge dividends and carry little or no risk to them and if they get fined for shit in rivers they can just put prices up. Water quality in rivers and coasts, water distribution and sewage treatment are all major problems , particularly now that we have left the EU and are beginning to diverge from the EU standards. Water companies are now trailing the need to increase water prices as the Gov push them to increase investment - they take the dividends and customers pay higher prices.

You could say the same for many other 'privatized industries' which are also in effect cash cows for private sector who are guaranteed income streams via subsidies from Gov whilst service quality falls. The only winners with the privatization of key services are big businesses and no doubt the Tory MPs and their mates who will secure well paid seats on boards after they step down. Calll me cynical but then show me I am wrong!

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:03 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:05 am

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:46 am

So you want to defeat the many private education facilities that are the ones that can actually cater for young people with very complex needs? How do you propose those who need a residential placement to enable any form of life to actually survive?

The private sector exists in the special needs space because decades and generations of governments have dismantled the public sector. This didn’t start happening in 2011.

I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:00 am dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:32 am

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:03 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:05 am


I'll bring this here from the Gazza thread because this is a slightly more appropriate thread for this topic.

Ideally I'd like every child's needs to be met in a way that the there isn't a profit motive behind the provision, I'm on a quick fly-by right now, but I thought this article was worth a read

https://weownit.org.uk/blog/how-cuts-an ... -education

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

It sounds like you have some personal experience with this or some involvement in it, if so you will have more first hand knowledge of it than me, my experience is only though that of neighbours. I was under the impression that the drive to educate SEN kids in the mainstream was good-intentioned because it was thought that would be best for the individuals and the classmates in terms of integration throughout society as they all grow up together.
Of course some children just cannot cope with that and need specialist provision. I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from on this because what I would like to see happen is that parents don't have to go away and set up schools themselves, or private companies come in to cover the gaps left in the state sector and that all educational needs are met fully by the state. The ambition should be to build world class schools for everyone.

No one has said the current state of affairs in education started in 2011.

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:32 am

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:03 am

It is partly right, but also terribly wrong. The current situation is not a result of austerity or recent government decisions, this is a direct result of multiple governments underfunding the sector and in some cases a drive to educate as many as possible within a mainstream environment.

It sounds like you have some personal experience with this or some involvement in it, if so you will have more first hand knowledge of it than me, my experience is only though that of neighbours. I was under the impression that the drive to educate SEN kids in the mainstream was good-intentioned because it was thought that would be best for the individuals and the classmates in terms of integration throughout society as they all grow up together.
Of course some children just cannot cope with that and need specialist provision. I think you may have misunderstood where I'm coming from on this because what I would like to see happen is that parents don't have to go away and set up schools themselves, or private companies come in to cover the gaps left in the state sector and that all educational needs are met fully by the state. The ambition should be to build world class schools for everyone.

No one has said the current state of affairs in education started in 2011.

Yes, I have lots of experience in this sector.

The article provided was from someone with new experience of the system and strongly linked it all to the recent government and austerity, which quite frankly is utter bullshit.

It is not best for all SEN children to be within a mainstream setting and any desire to achieve this is laughable. SEN in mainstream is a badly misunderstood topic that is a great headline but scratch the surface and it is a fucking disaster that destroys parents and provides good outcomes for not enough children.

You will never get a solution where the state provides the best solution because politics always gets in the way. The system needs long term continuity and all of my experience shows that this can only really be met in the private sector because a change in Head or dramatic change in funding is insulated against.

You cannot lump special educational needs into a privatisation is greed narrative, but that was mostly dpedin.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:40 pm Unbelievable. Two councillors have decided to threaten everyone who doesn’t sign a statement to the PM, demanding a ceasefire, by publishing their names as not signing it.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:42 pm Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:37 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:00 am dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

The reasons are very different though.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:43 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:42 pm Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:37 am

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:00 am dpedin, I completely agree it's an awful situation in England and privatisation of water services should be an absolute no no.

But it's shit in Scotland as well, even with our nationalised company, so lets not get too smug.

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:29 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:37 am

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:43 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:42 pm Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:43 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:42 pm Today's evidence in the covid enquiry seems to suggest Eton School has a really, really shit science and maths department. Johnson apparently doesn't understand graphs, exponentials, doubling or the colour red.

edit - the last one is obviously not the fault of the maths and science departments.

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:43 pm

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:43 pm

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:36 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:29 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:20 pm

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

You tricked me. We agree!

I'm literally just about to leave to do an interview with STV on our new local clean water action group - Porty Water Collective.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:29 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:37 am

The reasons are very different though.

How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:38 pm

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Talking to him like you would to a 5 year old?

Camroc2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:50 pm

shaggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:20 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

Not sure how much you saw of Vallance today but he did clarify a lot of this saying he found an effective way to communicate the data to Boris and that this was an issue across all leaders of governments, not just the UK.

It is not as you simply state above.

Is that what the crayons were for ?

In July 2020, Sir Patrick wrote that then-chancellor Rishi Sunak said “it is all about handling the scientists, not handling the virus” during an economics meeting, but had not realised Sir Chris Whitty was in the room.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:35 pm Don’t get me wrong. He has every right to lobby for support.

But to basically demand support else outing someone is pretty dodgy ground.

What a fuckwit

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:58 pm



Community Notes doing a fine job

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:41 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:43 pm

He's a literature major. Why should he be good at maths too?

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:13 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:29 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:20 pm How so? It's still trying to cut corners and dump shit in the rivers and seas, don't care massively about the minutia of the reasons

One has a profit motive behind their incompetence. The other has incompetence behind their incompetence.

If the public body proves true incompetence it makes it easier to advance the case for privatisation, so there could be an underling profit motive behind some of the worst of the decision making, no need to overlook the incompetence but they could be corrupt too is all

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:54 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:41 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:28 pm

He's a classics graduate. But that's got nothing to do with it.

Reading graphs is what you're taught at 12.

You're taught about squared numbers around that time as well. This isn't advanced maths we're talking about, it's at the level I'd expect someone vaguely intelligent to understand from high school lessons.

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:54 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:41 pm

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:54 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 2:41 pm

He's basically got the brain of a medieval monarch after the alcohol abuse and STDs really kicked in.

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

C69 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:48 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:54 pm

Much as I know you're joking (a bit) the problem is public life in the UK, it's institutions and authorities, doesn't take technical and scientific education as a significant contributor to the public discourse, wellbeing, economy or society. It's a deep fundamental flaw in the UK.

People joke about, and seem proud of, being terrible at maths. If they said the same about reading people would be embarrassed for them.

Fwiw people’s literacy is awful as well, people are just a little bit more circumspect about admitting it.

Very few people can read and digest long stretches of text, and even fewer can write in full sentences. We’re a poorly educated country

Over what sort of period has this occurred?
Why has this happened?

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:58 pm



Community Notes doing a fine job