Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 7:24 am
Providing in a comp you use players registered for said comp I don't know how you'd police it beyond that.
I can imagine the league sponsors, game sponsors and TV company are a bit pissed off at having to sponsor/show a second rate game. It is this that will drive the money away from the game, why sponsor or show a Mickey Mouse game, who is going to be interested in watching a mismatch?
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 7:24 am
Providing in a comp you use players registered for said comp I don't know how you'd police it beyond that.
I can imagine the league sponsors, game sponsors and TV company are a bit pissed off at having to sponsor/show a second rate game. It is this that will drive the money away from the game, why sponsor or show a Mickey Mouse game, who is going to be interested in watching a mismatch?
Depends on the spin one uses. If in the football Man City or Arsenal as the league leaders thrash a side 7-1 you probably don't get too much gnashing of teeth
Rotation is just a thing now, and I'd far rather sides do use than flog their players. Sometimes you get a downside to that, but I'll take it given the upside
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 7:24 am
Providing in a comp you use players registered for said comp I don't know how you'd police it beyond that.
I can imagine the league sponsors, game sponsors and TV company are a bit pissed off at having to sponsor/show a second rate game. It is this that will drive the money away from the game, why sponsor or show a Mickey Mouse game, who is going to be interested in watching a mismatch?
I think they showed the Bristol-Sarries and Exeter-Quins matches
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 7:24 am
Providing in a comp you use players registered for said comp I don't know how you'd police it beyond that.
I can imagine the league sponsors, game sponsors and TV company are a bit pissed off at having to sponsor/show a second rate game. It is this that will drive the money away from the game, why sponsor or show a Mickey Mouse game, who is going to be interested in watching a mismatch?
I think they showed the Bristol-Sarries and Exeter-Quins matches
I can imagine the league sponsors, game sponsors and TV company are a bit pissed off at having to sponsor/show a second rate game. It is this that will drive the money away from the game, why sponsor or show a Mickey Mouse game, who is going to be interested in watching a mismatch?
I think they showed the Bristol-Sarries and Exeter-Quins matches
The Saints match was shown on Red Button
It devalued the league game and whilst understandable from a Gloucester point of view I am not sure anyone will invest in league games when some teams have thrown in the towel and given up before kick off? Not sure I would pay to go watch what was a glorified training run for Saints regardless of who I supported.
I think they showed the Bristol-Sarries and Exeter-Quins matches
The Saints match was shown on Red Button
It devalued the league game and whilst understandable from a Gloucester point of view I am not sure anyone will invest in league games when some teams have thrown in the towel and given up before kick off? Not sure I would pay to go watch what was a glorified training run for Saints regardless of who I supported.
I think that was probably why it was on the red button.
I can imagine the league sponsors, game sponsors and TV company are a bit pissed off at having to sponsor/show a second rate game. It is this that will drive the money away from the game, why sponsor or show a Mickey Mouse game, who is going to be interested in watching a mismatch?
I think they showed the Bristol-Sarries and Exeter-Quins matches
The Saints match was shown on Red Button
In the end, a fitting metaphor.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 11:17 am
by sockwithaticket
Brian Moore has apparently opined in the Telegraph that Gloucester might be getting grief now, but it'll all be forgiven if they win the Challenge Cup.
I don't particularly agree, even that abysmal 14/15 London Welsh side didn't lose by 90 points. 71 was their biggest margin. It's an epochally terrible result and the team isn't quite as B as some of the narrative has been trying to convey. Plenty of starters and seasoned Prem players in the pack. The halfbacks were a highly capped international scrum half and someone who's been into England squads and has plenty of Premiership time behind him.
It also made me wonder, how prestigious is the Challenge Cup really? Is winning it actually a big deal? I have it a bit above something like the Premiership Cup and Anglo-Welsh, but it's miles off the prestige of a league or Champions cup win. And context has a part to play. Gloucester winning the second tier of Europe doesn't change consecutive second from bottom finishes in the Premiership.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 11:22 am
by Margin__Walker
Yeah, I'd agree.
Skivs has got away a bit with the B team narrative to explain it away. Sure it's a rotated line up, but there's a ton of prem experience in that starting 15 still. 90 - 0 is an incredibly bad result, even against and in form Saints team.
I watched some awful LI teams in relegation seasons and the results never got into that post code.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 11:23 am
by Simian
Doesn’t winning it still get you into the Champions Cup?
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 11:23 am
by inactionman
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:22 am
Yeah, I'd agree.
Skivs has got away a bit with the B team narrative to explain it away. Sure it's a rotated line up, but there's a ton of prem experience in that starting 15 still. 90 - 0 is an incredibly bad result, even against and in form Saints team.
I watched some awful LI teams in relegation seasons and the results never got into that post code.
Bath skirted with it a few seasons back.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 11:29 am
by Margin__Walker
This article is a few years old, but I don't think any of the margins of defeat have been exceeded since (happy to be corrected)
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:22 am
Yeah, I'd agree.
Skivs has got away a bit with the B team narrative to explain it away. Sure it's a rotated line up, but there's a ton of prem experience in that starting 15 still. 90 - 0 is an incredibly bad result, even against and in form Saints team.
I watched some awful LI teams in relegation seasons and the results never got into that post code.
Bath skirted with it a few seasons back.
Ironically to Gloucester. 64 - 0
They still managed to keep the margin tighter by a full 26 points though. 90 - 0 is heroic stuff. It really wasn't a team of kids
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:22 am
Yeah, I'd agree.
Skivs has got away a bit with the B team narrative to explain it away. Sure it's a rotated line up, but there's a ton of prem experience in that starting 15 still. 90 - 0 is an incredibly bad result, even against and in form Saints team.
I watched some awful LI teams in relegation seasons and the results never got into that post code.
Bath skirted with it a few seasons back.
Ironically to Gloucester. 64 - 0
They still managed to keep the margin tighter by a full 26 points though
We lost 71-17 to Sarries, 71-10 to Gloucester and 48-3 to Bristol in 2021. There were far too many hammerings over that period.
They still managed to keep the margin tighter by a full 26 points though
We lost 71-17 to Sarries, 71-10 to Gloucester and 48-3 to Bristol in 2021. There were far too many hammerings over that period.
Not 90-0, but still pretty dreadful.
The speed with which van Graan has turned things around is really impressive. And even as a neutral it's good to see, the Premiership as a product needs as many strong teams as possible and it benefits the national team if the average standard is higher.
They still managed to keep the margin tighter by a full 26 points though
We lost 71-17 to Sarries, 71-10 to Gloucester and 48-3 to Bristol in 2021. There were far too many hammerings over that period.
Not 90-0, but still pretty dreadful.
The speed with which van Graan has turned things around is really impressive. And even as a neutral it's good to see, the Premiership as a product needs as many strong teams as possible and it benefits the national team if the average standard is higher.
There was always huge underperformance and a feeling of complacency in the Hooper era, I think the next man in was always going to get a bounce - even saying that, Van Graan seems to have really grabbed hold of it and you could see the results even relatively early in his tenure.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 12:33 pm
by Margin__Walker
You've got a lot in place for you at Bath. Hooper's underperformance was really stark and it ill be interesting to see how far they can go under Van Graan
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 1:35 pm
by SaintK
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:33 pm
You've got a lot in place for you at Bath. Hooper's underperformance was really stark and it ill be interesting to see how far they can go under Van Graan
I think Blackett has made a big difference since he joined the coaching set up.
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:33 pm
You've got a lot in place for you at Bath. Hooper's underperformance was really stark and it ill be interesting to see how far they can go under Van Graan
I think Blackett has made a big difference since he joined the coaching set up.
I was just about to mention the same thing. We have benefitted more than most from the demise of Worcester and Wasps.
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:33 pm
You've got a lot in place for you at Bath. Hooper's underperformance was really stark and it ill be interesting to see how far they can go under Van Graan
I think Blackett has made a big difference since he joined the coaching set up.
Hugely
There's been some decent recruitment at coaching and playing staff level, and Blackett has got the backs so much more threatening than they've been for a few years previously.
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:33 pm
You've got a lot in place for you at Bath. Hooper's underperformance was really stark and it ill be interesting to see how far they can go under Van Graan
I think Blackett has made a big difference since he joined the coaching set up.
I was just about to mention the same thing. We have benefitted more than most from the demise of Worcester and Wasps.
Aye. Alongside Blackett, Ollie Lawrence and Ted Hill have been excellent. All pretty miserable, the way it happened, but they've certainly all added a great deal.
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:33 pm
You've got a lot in place for you at Bath. Hooper's underperformance was really stark and it ill be interesting to see how far they can go under Van Graan
I think Blackett has made a big difference since he joined the coaching set up.
I think he's better suited to being the attack/backs coach than the head man he ended up as at Wasps.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 4:12 pm
by inactionman
As indicated, Mako and Billy are leaving Sarries at the end of the season, a little more surprised to hear Manu is leaving as well. Although can't have been good news to have Louie Johnson and Fergus Burke signed just as Farrell heads off. Is it a case of Manu just not kicking on?
Not yet confirmed where they're off to, although Billy has been linked to Montpellier for a while. Interested to se where Manu ends up
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 4:32 pm
by SaintK
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 4:12 pm
As indicated, Mako and Billy are leaving Sarries at the end of the season, a little more surprised to hear Manu is leaving as well. Although can't have been good news to have Louie Johnson and Fergus Burke signed just as Farrell heads off. Is it a case of Manu just not kicking on?
Not yet confirmed where they're off to, although Billy has been linked to Montpellier for a while. Interested to se where Manu ends up
Yes, he really hasn't. Blows far too hot and cold in his consistency.
Montpellier look likely to be playing ProD2 next season
inactionman wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 4:12 pm
As indicated, Mako and Billy are leaving Sarries at the end of the season, a little more surprised to hear Manu is leaving as well. Although can't have been good news to have Louie Johnson and Fergus Burke signed just as Farrell heads off. Is it a case of Manu just not kicking on?
Not yet confirmed where they're off to, although Billy has been linked to Montpellier for a while. Interested to se where Manu ends up
Yes, he really hasn't. Blows far too hot and cold in his consistency.
Montpellier look likely to be playing ProD2 next season
Sounds ideal for two spent forces looking to cash in at tail end of their respective careers.
In the top twenty for caps, second highest try scorer. Not too much of a stretch to give that accolade.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 9:14 pm
by epwc
At his best he was brilliant, which England winger was better?
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 9:50 pm
by Sandstorm
Plus he played blindside.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 10:05 pm
by Raggs
I know it wasn't exactly what we wanted to see from him, but he became one of the best kick chasers out there, managed to get a lot of ball knocked back to our guys.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 8:48 am
by ASMO
epwc wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 9:14 pm
At his best he was brilliant, which England winger was better?
Robinson, Underwood, Duckham to name but 3
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 8:55 am
by Tichtheid
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 9:50 pm
Plus he played blindside.
That actually made me like him even more, he was terrible at it.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 8:59 am
by inactionman
I find him quite inspiring.
In a game filled with the product of public school scholarships he's demonstrated you can go to a modern comp in Swindon, be thick as mince and still play rugby for England
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 9:00 am
by epwc
ASMO wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 8:48 amRobinson, Underwood, Duckham to name but 3
Underwood was the only back allowed to score in that England side wasn't he? Never saw Duckham play but agree the other two were great, since Robinson who have we had that's been as good as May?
Sandstorm wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 9:50 pm
Plus he played blindside.
That actually made me like him even more, he was terrible at it.
Re: The Official English Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 9:04 am
by Rhubarb & Custard
For all he's a safe cadet, and he is, he's also really worked hard on so many details with great discipline. Really an excellent career, and for him career as opposed to something he was doing seems apt
ASMO wrote: ↑Wed May 15, 2024 8:48 amRobinson, Underwood, Duckham to name but 3
Underwood was the only back allowed to score in that England side wasn't he? Never saw Duckham play but agree the other two were great, since Robinson who have we had that's been as good as May?
Robinson was just about the best winger to play for England in my mind, Underwood not far behind.
I was lucky enough to see Duckham playing in his pomp for both England and Coventry, his side step was a thing of beauty
Reckon May can be mentioned in the same breath as those three.
