NPR

It looks pretty bad going by the reaction of the other players.

I rewinded and strongly wish I hadn’t - his foot is basically 180 degrees round from where it should be. No foul play at all, just horrific bad luck. Likely done for the season and has clearly shaken up the lads around him

Quins deserved that for an excellent defensive effort and how they took their chances when they arose.

Ridley’s ruck refereeing remains an absolute clown car. It largely but not exclusively benefited Quins.

Willis and Earl gave that absolutely everything, Sarries spent most of the first half understandably shaken up but no real excuse for Burke being anonymous all afternoon. Should have taken three regularly in the first half, albeit when we did switch to doing so in the second half Loz missed from bang in front. Oh well. His kicking I don’t think is good enough to mount a proper charge.

Proper game of rugby.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:58 pm Quins deserved that for an excellent defensive effort and how they took their chances when they arose.

Ridley’s ruck refereeing remains an absolute clown car. It largely but not exclusively benefited Quins.

Willis and Earl gave that absolutely everything, Sarries spent most of the first half understandably shaken up but no real excuse for Burke being anonymous all afternoon. Should have taken three regularly in the first half, albeit when we did switch to doing so in the second half Loz missed from bang in front. Oh well. His kicking I don’t think is good enough to mount a proper charge.

Proper game of rugby.

Agreed about Ridley but I can assure you I have a truck load of examples of his absolute incompetence at ruck time costing us - which is pretty much what you will get from someone who clearly thinks defences should simply not compete

Mad stuff, and both teams will be absolutely baffled by him today. Silly Ben Earl thinking you can just turn the ball over like that!

Huge defensive showing, and for once that's just built on earlier performances. Not sure how Kenningham wasn't POTM.

Superbly competitive league these days.

Very poor by Ridley today
Quins will be delighted with their new defence coach

Bunnies (c) JM2k

Leg break was right in front on me. Horrendous. Poor fucker. Hope he recovers ok.

Quins defence outstanding. Look forward to Stephen Jones telling everyone how shit Smith was in the morning.

England squad culled for Autumn AIs.

Forwards

Fin Baxter (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Ollie Chessum (Leicester Tigers, 23 caps)
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 115 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Sale Sharks, 41 caps)
Chandler Cunningham-South (Harlequins, 7 caps)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 53 caps)
Theo Dan (Saracens, 14 caps)
Trevor Davison (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 17 caps)
Ben Earl (Saracens, 33 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 31 caps)
Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 62 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 93 caps)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens, 11 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 84 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 95 caps)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 15 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 41 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 38 caps)

Backs

Elliot Daly (Saracens, 69 caps)
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso (Exeter Chiefs, 6 caps)
Tommy Freeman (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 11 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Bath Rugby, 27 caps)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens, 5 caps)
Luke Northmore (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)
Tom Roebuck (Sale Sharks, 1 cap)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 65 caps)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)
Fin Smith (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 35 caps)
Ben Spencer (Bath Rugby, 6 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 34 caps)
Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 14 caps)

Dombrandt and Slade not played for weeks.
What has Tom Willis got to do to get into a squad?
Lots of meh selections.

Still not moving on from the likes of Marler, Ewels, Daly et al and some notable absentees in the forwards. Struggling to get excited about this.

Oxbow wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2024 11:51 am Still not moving on from the likes of Marler, Ewels, Daly et al and some notable absentees in the forwards. Struggling to get excited about this.

With the injuries it can make sense to call up old heads, rather than kids that aren't going to have time to settle in, before they're displaced again for the next series.

There's a very nice backline to be made there (shame about Mitchell and Ford). Pack is a bit more of a struggle, but not terrible by a long shot.

I haven't watched a huge amount of the Prem so far, but it strikes me that this really is the sort of time where older members of the pack need to start being moved on. That doesn't mean shedding every single experienced option, but it probably does mean not including both George and LCD and not bringing back Ewels. We've seen the negative of leaving a squad refresh too late and evolution is better than revolution, so bring a couple more of the new gen through.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:03 am I haven't watched a huge amount of the Prem so far, but it strikes me that this really is the sort of time where older members of the pack need to start being moved on. That doesn't mean shedding every single experienced option, but it probably does mean not including both George and LCD and not bringing back Ewels. We've seen the negative of leaving a squad refresh too late and evolution is better than revolution, so bring a couple more of the new gen through.

LCD is only 31. Ewels 29. I realise Ewels shouldn't really be there, but with Chessum and Martin I don't think we're skipping youth by any means.

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:07 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:03 am I haven't watched a huge amount of the Prem so far, but it strikes me that this really is the sort of time where older members of the pack need to start being moved on. That doesn't mean shedding every single experienced option, but it probably does mean not including both George and LCD and not bringing back Ewels. We've seen the negative of leaving a squad refresh too late and evolution is better than revolution, so bring a couple more of the new gen through.

LCD is only 31. Ewels 29. I realise Ewels shouldn't really be there, but with Chessum and Martin I don't think we're skipping youth by any means.

34 and 32 for the next World Cup.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:18 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:07 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:03 am I haven't watched a huge amount of the Prem so far, but it strikes me that this really is the sort of time where older members of the pack need to start being moved on. That doesn't mean shedding every single experienced option, but it probably does mean not including both George and LCD and not bringing back Ewels. We've seen the negative of leaving a squad refresh too late and evolution is better than revolution, so bring a couple more of the new gen through.

LCD is only 31. Ewels 29. I realise Ewels shouldn't really be there, but with Chessum and Martin I don't think we're skipping youth by any means.

34 and 32 for the next World Cup.

Which are perfectly acceptable ages for tight five players...

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:20 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:18 am

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:07 am

LCD is only 31. Ewels 29. I realise Ewels shouldn't really be there, but with Chessum and Martin I don't think we're skipping youth by any means.

34 and 32 for the next World Cup.

Which are perfectly acceptable ages for tight five players...

But also ages by which those players retire, especially ones with Luke Cowan-Dickie's injury history. Past 32 it becomes a lottery for most positions - plenty of examples of players carrying on, but also plenty who've hung up their boots. With his reduced efficacy lately I'd probably be looking at shuffling out George rather than LCD, but of course Borthwick has Geoge as captain, so that's unlikely. I just think we need somone other than Dan to have an appreciable number of caps by the world cup in case neither George or LCD are available by then, which isn't at all improbable.

29 isn't old for a second row, but it is late to be keeping proven plodders with a red card problem around. I fail to see what Ewels offers that we mightn't get out of a Tizard or Munga other than perhaps lineout calling. If he's not in danger of getting near the test team, then get one of these promising younger players in his stead to familiarise them with the environment and start paving the way for their involvement.

Oh well!!
Sounds as ifJack Willis has turned down an offer to join Saracens and Toulouse are close to locking him to a 4 year contract extension!!!!

Can't imagine Saracens had a lot of budget to spare to compete with Toulouse. Though I suppose they will lose Goode at the end of this season?

On the England discussion, agree it's weird that Dombrandt is in despite missing weeks of rugby and not being fit for the bench at the weekend. Still not quite convinced by Tom Willis being as good as the hype, though, but I've settled for him being a CJ Stander type and I can see the value in that. Certainly would rather have him than Mercer!

LCD, who was frequently a better option than George in the last 4-5 years, is not at that standard any more and with Langdon and Ohgre tearing up trees I think he should be focusing on earning the shirt back in club rugby.

No club will be able to match the spending of any of the French giants. Nor can many (any?) of the Prem clubs offer the same level of job security, which I suspect will be fairly high in the mind of player whose club collapsed from under him with a family to provide for.

Toulouse specifically offer consistently competing at the sharp end of both the domestic and European seasons too.

He'd have to rate playing for England very highly to come back tbh.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:26 pm Can't imagine Saracens had a lot of budget to spare to compete with Toulouse. Though I suppose they will lose Goode at the end of this season?

On the England discussion, agree it's weird that Dombrandt is in despite missing weeks of rugby and not being fit for the bench at the weekend. Still not quite convinced by Tom Willis being as good as the hype, though, but I've settled for him being a CJ Stander type and I can see the value in that. Certainly would rather have him than Mercer!

LCD, who was frequently a better option than George in the last 4-5 years, is not at that standard any more and with Langdon and Ohgre tearing up trees I think he should be focusing on earning the shirt back in club rugby.

Langdon and Oghre are easily the two best performing EQ hookers in the Premiership at present.
Dan appears to be suffering 2nd/3rd season syndrome at Sarries though is outplaying George.
George should be replaced for the 6N with a huge pat on his back and thankyou.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:21 pm No club will be able to match the spending of any of the French giants. Nor can many (any?) of the Prem clubs offer the same level of job security, which I suspect will be fairly high in the mind of player whose club collapsed from under him with a family to provide for.

Toulouse specifically offer consistently competing at the sharp end of both the domestic and European seasons too.

He'd have to rate playing for England very highly to come back tbh.

Let’s face it, trying to compete with French wages is one of the reasons why English clubs are going bust.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:26 pm Can't imagine Saracens had a lot of budget to spare to compete with Toulouse. Though I suppose they will lose Goode at the end of this season?

On the England discussion, agree it's weird that Dombrandt is in despite missing weeks of rugby and not being fit for the bench at the weekend. Still not quite convinced by Tom Willis being as good as the hype, though, but I've settled for him being a CJ Stander type and I can see the value in that. Certainly would rather have him than Mercer!

LCD, who was frequently a better option than George in the last 4-5 years, is not at that standard any more and with Langdon and Ohgre tearing up trees I think he should be focusing on earning the shirt back in club rugby.

Langdon and Oghre are easily the two best performing EQ hookers in the Premiership at present.
Dan appears to be suffering 2nd/3rd season syndrome at Sarries though is outplaying George.
George should be replaced for the 6N with a huge pat on his back and thankyou.

I'm loathe to suggest getting rid of George, who is in a very similar role to Dylan Hartley during the successful Eddie period. Solid, reliable, good leader, well respected, and an excellent conduit for the coaches. Perhaps with another captaincy option available I would be happier with it.

Anyway this is all just killing time until Jibulu becomes world player of the year ;-)

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:25 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:21 pm No club will be able to match the spending of any of the French giants. Nor can many (any?) of the Prem clubs offer the same level of job security, which I suspect will be fairly high in the mind of player whose club collapsed from under him with a family to provide for.

Toulouse specifically offer consistently competing at the sharp end of both the domestic and European seasons too.

He'd have to rate playing for England very highly to come back tbh.

Let’s face it, trying to compete with French wages is one of the reasons why English clubs are going bust.

Not really. I thought wages were a bigger deal but the costs of running the clubs are way more than that. I do still think we're paying too much but ultimately the salary arms race in English rugby is with direct competitors, even if it was triggered by a couple of clubs wishing to leverage their financial backing with Europe in mind.

None of the sides going bust did so because they were trying to compete with French sides.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:37 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:26 pm Can't imagine Saracens had a lot of budget to spare to compete with Toulouse. Though I suppose they will lose Goode at the end of this season?

On the England discussion, agree it's weird that Dombrandt is in despite missing weeks of rugby and not being fit for the bench at the weekend. Still not quite convinced by Tom Willis being as good as the hype, though, but I've settled for him being a CJ Stander type and I can see the value in that. Certainly would rather have him than Mercer!

LCD, who was frequently a better option than George in the last 4-5 years, is not at that standard any more and with Langdon and Ohgre tearing up trees I think he should be focusing on earning the shirt back in club rugby.

Langdon and Oghre are easily the two best performing EQ hookers in the Premiership at present.
Dan appears to be suffering 2nd/3rd season syndrome at Sarries though is outplaying George.
George should be replaced for the 6N with a huge pat on his back and thankyou.

I'm loathe to suggest getting rid of George, who is in a very similar role to Dylan Hartley during the successful Eddie period. Solid, reliable, good leader, well respected, and an excellent conduit for the coaches. Perhaps with another captaincy option available I would be happier with it.

Anyway this is all just killing time until Jibulu becomes world player of the year ;-)

I think i'd drop LCD for Langdon rather than George for those same reasons.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:37 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:06 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:26 pm Can't imagine Saracens had a lot of budget to spare to compete with Toulouse. Though I suppose they will lose Goode at the end of this season?

On the England discussion, agree it's weird that Dombrandt is in despite missing weeks of rugby and not being fit for the bench at the weekend. Still not quite convinced by Tom Willis being as good as the hype, though, but I've settled for him being a CJ Stander type and I can see the value in that. Certainly would rather have him than Mercer!

LCD, who was frequently a better option than George in the last 4-5 years, is not at that standard any more and with Langdon and Ohgre tearing up trees I think he should be focusing on earning the shirt back in club rugby.

Langdon and Oghre are easily the two best performing EQ hookers in the Premiership at present.
Dan appears to be suffering 2nd/3rd season syndrome at Sarries though is outplaying George.
George should be replaced for the 6N with a huge pat on his back and thankyou.

I'm loathe to suggest getting rid of George, who is in a very similar role to Dylan Hartley during the successful Eddie period. Solid, reliable, good leader, well respected, and an excellent conduit for the coaches. Perhaps with another captaincy option available I would be happier with it.

Anyway this is all just killing time until Jibulu becomes world player of the year ;-)

Have been mightily impressed with that young man this season

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:55 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:37 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:06 am
Langdon and Oghre are easily the two best performing EQ hookers in the Premiership at present.
Dan appears to be suffering 2nd/3rd season syndrome at Sarries though is outplaying George.
George should be replaced for the 6N with a huge pat on his back and thankyou.

I'm loathe to suggest getting rid of George, who is in a very similar role to Dylan Hartley during the successful Eddie period. Solid, reliable, good leader, well respected, and an excellent conduit for the coaches. Perhaps with another captaincy option available I would be happier with it.

Anyway this is all just killing time until Jibulu becomes world player of the year ;-)

Have been mightily impressed with that young man this season

Yeah, he does seem to have the goods. Monster carrier, great at the breakdown, tackles like a truck, and solid in the set piece. Very excited by him and think he offers a level of power that no one else does at hooker in this country. A lot of Quins fans are still in Team Riley, but Riley can be a bit of an idiot and his lineout work is often flaky.

Hmmmm!

Not watched much, but what I've read suggests he'd perhaps not be in line for a cap any time soon, but as an EQP player again, he'd be worth more to clubs.

He's definitely good enough to play for England. Extremely good player.

23 minutes 35 seconds and Saints have the try bonus point wrapped up against Sale. The back three are looking particularly lethal.

Saints doing Saints stuff. Freeman looking good at 13, can't wait to see Slade there for England.

I know it's Saints and you can never rule out a collapse, but it's getting close to game over already.

It almost seems unfair for Saints to play a backline with Freeman, Hendy, Sleightholme and Furbank. But very enjoyable to watch (unless you're a Sale fan).

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 7:28 pm I know it's Saints and you can never rule out a collapse, but it's getting close to game over already.

Shhhhhhsh

Saints really easy on the eye. How rugby should be played. But you fear for them when they come up against some heavyweight packs.

How are Exeter this sh*t this season?

Newcastle in serious danger of winning a game here...

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:17 pm Newcastle in serious danger of winning a game here...

Don't invoke the ire of the mocker Gods

FalconJock wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:21 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:17 pm Newcastle in serious danger of winning a game here...

Don't invoke the ire of the mocker Gods

Apologies!

I will though. It's in the bag.

edit - sort of

I like the look of Henry Pollock - very physical at this level at 19 years old

Well Done The Toon

Braz will be kicking something or other.