The Official English Rugby Thread

[sockwithaticket]

The press release said he'd be serving his notice (which is a year) an contributing, but since we've got El-Abd I'd imagine Jones is on gardening leave.

This autumn series is El-Abd's first set of games.

[Slick]

Random question, but was Jamie George part of the Saracens team when all the cheating stuff came out?

[SaintK]

Random question, but was Jamie George part of the Saracens team when all the cheating stuff came out?

He's been at Saracens since he was 16

[SaintK]

True on both the lack of identity outside of defence and borthwick/wigglesworth going.
I thought this defence system progressively improved under Felix Jones but has regressed since he left.

He hasn't left yet, surely

From memory, he's gone and Joe El-Abd is temp defence coach. Similarly, we have a temp coach in replacing Aled Waters as strength and conditioning coach.

Jones is still working his notice and doing some analysis work.
El-Abd joins full time at the end of the T14 season
Aled Walters was replaced full time by the ex Glaws s and c coach. His name escapes me.

[Slick]

Random question, but was Jamie George part of the Saracens team when all the cheating stuff came out?

He's been at Saracens since he was 16

Ahh, thank you

[geordie_6]

He hasn't left yet, surely

From memory, he's gone and Joe El-Abd is temp defence coach. Similarly, we have a temp coach in replacing Aled Waters as strength and conditioning coach.

Jones is still working his notice and doing some analysis work.
El-Abd joins full time at the end of the T14 season
Aled Walters was replaced full time by the ex Glaws s and c coach. His name escapes me.

Dan Tobin? Did they give up on trying to get Phillip Morrow from Sarries?

[JM2K6]

George is getting some flak for things he said post match, but to me he's just being honest about a few England players switching off and thinking it was going to be easy after the first twenty. God knows I was thinking it was going to be easy, too.

I hadn't always appreciated his self appointed spokesman role prior to taking over the captaincy and he's irritated me on a few occasions over the years but he seems to be an excellent choice as captain in terms of both his character and the way he talks. He's open, honest, insightful, and usually bullshit-free. I'd like to see more from him on the pitch but I suspect England would be in an even worse spot without his leadership. It's a shame he's a road block for a clutch of talented hookers but that's a separate problem and hopefully they'll get a chance to shine, although LCD's return is a backwards step for me.

Given the systemic issues in the side and the deeply conservative, inexperienced, and largely unsuccessful coaching staff we have, I don't expect a major turnaround in our fortunes bar the occasional morale boosting unexpected win in a sea of losses and poor displays.

[SaintK]

From memory, he's gone and Joe El-Abd is temp defence coach. Similarly, we have a temp coach in replacing Aled Waters as strength and conditioning coach.

Jones is still working his notice and doing some analysis work.
El-Abd joins full time at the end of the T14 season
Aled Walters was replaced full time by the ex Glaws s and c coach. His name escapes me.

Dan Tobin? Did they give up on trying to get Phillip Morrow from Sarries?

Think he’s due to join at the end of the current Premiership season

[geordie_6]

Jones is still working his notice and doing some analysis work.
El-Abd joins full time at the end of the T14 season
Aled Walters was replaced full time by the ex Glaws s and c coach. His name escapes me.

Dan Tobin? Did they give up on trying to get Phillip Morrow from Sarries?

Think he’s due to join at the end of the current Premiership season

Champion, thanks mate.

[inactionman]

Just a small observation - Bath provided 3 starting tightheads for the autumn internationals. That can't be very common.

[sockwithaticket]

The prospect of Wasps resuming in Kent inches forward.

Club owner Christopher Holland said the club had secured a 10-year option on land as part of a wider development scheme in Swanley, Kent.

"It is rewarding that we have managed to achieve this milestone with the support of key stakeholders," he said.

"It brings our aspiration of a new home in the region closer and hopefully demonstrates our determination to recover Wasps sustainably."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 6l0rd7yqgo

[sockwithaticket]

Just a small observation - Bath provided 3 starting tightheads for the autumn internationals. That can't be very common.

Certainly not for us, might have happened before in one of the nations with smaller regional/provincial set ups. Good job there's no longer any autumn overlap with league fixtures.

[inactionman]

Just a small observation - Bath provided 3 starting tightheads for the autumn internationals. That can't be very common.

Certainly not for us, might have happened before in one of the nations with smaller regional/provincial set ups. Good job there's no longer any autumn overlap with league fixtures.

Bath have re-signed the England U20 tighthead as well. Looks a very good prospect

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 9rk0dv8yxo


On the subject of young tyros, I've heard rumblings about England interest in Dom Young - 6'7" winger in league. My limited knowledge of him is that he's a great finisher but other aspects of his game aren't great.

[Ovals]

Quite an exciting line up

England A side to face Australia A
15. Joe Carpenter (Sale Sharks)

14. Cadan Murley (Harlequins)

13. Oscar Beard (Harlequins)

12. Fraser Dingwall (c) (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)

11. Gabriel Ibitoye (Bristol Bears)

10. Charlie Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby)

9. Will Porter (Harlequins)

1. Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks)

2. Gabriel Oghre (Bristol Bears)

3. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 7 caps)

4. Hugh Tizard (Saracens)

5. Arthur Clark (Gloucester Rugby)

6. Tom Pearson (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)

7. Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)

8. Tom Willis (Saracens, 1 cap)

Replacements
16. Curtis Langdon (Northampton Saints, 2 caps)

17. Emmanuel Iyogun (Northampton Saints)

18. Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby)

19. Rusi Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)

20. Greg Fisilau (Exeter Chiefs)

21. Archie McParland (Northampton Saints)

22. Jamie Shillcock (Leicester Tigers)

23. Will Muir (Bath Rugby)

[Mahoney]

It's been a long time since I saw a "A side would beat the senior side" post.

[Slick]

The prospect of Wasps resuming in Kent inches forward.

Club owner Christopher Holland said the club had secured a 10-year option on land as part of a wider development scheme in Swanley, Kent.

"It is rewarding that we have managed to achieve this milestone with the support of key stakeholders," he said.

"It brings our aspiration of a new home in the region closer and hopefully demonstrates our determination to recover Wasps sustainably."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 6l0rd7yqgo

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

[sockwithaticket]

The prospect of Wasps resuming in Kent inches forward.

Club owner Christopher Holland said the club had secured a 10-year option on land as part of a wider development scheme in Swanley, Kent.

"It is rewarding that we have managed to achieve this milestone with the support of key stakeholders," he said.

"It brings our aspiration of a new home in the region closer and hopefully demonstrates our determination to recover Wasps sustainably."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 6l0rd7yqgo

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

I dunno, Worcester and Irish both had news this week too. Might actually be something brewing to bring all three established names back for the revamped Championship.

[Stranger]

The prospect of Wasps resuming in Kent inches forward.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 6l0rd7yqgo

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

I dunno, Worcester and Irish both had news this week too. Might actually be something brewing to bring all three established names back for the revamped Championship.

Worcester at least have a ground, LI and Wasps would require massive investment, and I am sure anyone is going to think rugby is a good investment at the moment

[SaintK]

It's been a long time since I saw a "A side would beat the senior side" post.

Pleased to see they haven't parachuted in a large number of players from the main squad.
Not quite sure about Tizard and Atkinson as future senior internationals.
Apart from Shillcock the bench looks young, dynamic and full of potential.

[JM2K6]

Wish they'd stop trying to make Asher a loose head, and Heyes is rubbish

[Stranger]

Heyes has actually been much better this year, so obviously he's dropped after being consistantly picked when he was indeed rubbish.

[Oxbow]

It's been a long time since I saw a "A side would beat the senior side" post.

Pleased to see they haven't parachuted in a large number of players from the main squad.
Not quite sure about Tizard and Atkinson as future senior internationals.
Apart from Shillcock the bench looks young, dynamic and full of potential.

Hendy should have been in in place of Shillcock.

[sockwithaticket]

It's been a long time since I saw a "A side would beat the senior side" post.

Pleased to see they haven't parachuted in a large number of players from the main squad.
Not quite sure about Tizard and Atkinson as future senior internationals.
Apart from Shillcock the bench looks young, dynamic and full of potential.

Hendy should have been in in place of Shillcock.

Hendy's from the wrong bit of the midlands.

The only rationale I can see behind Shillcock is that he plays a bit of 10, so that ups his bench utility, but he shouldn't be anywhere near England's 10 succession planning. Not even at A team level.

[Stranger]

Hendy's from the wrong bit of the midlands.



6 Saints V 2 Tigers but Hendy is from the wrong bit of the midlands? I don't disagree that Hendy is a great player but the Tigers bias doesn't stack up.

[Paddington Bear]

The prospect of Wasps resuming in Kent inches forward.

Club owner Christopher Holland said the club had secured a 10-year option on land as part of a wider development scheme in Swanley, Kent.

"It is rewarding that we have managed to achieve this milestone with the support of key stakeholders," he said.

"It brings our aspiration of a new home in the region closer and hopefully demonstrates our determination to recover Wasps sustainably."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 6l0rd7yqgo

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

I agree with this to an extent - there’s no chance they’re finding the money to buy land in Kent, build a stadium on it and finance a team that will be back in the Prem before long. A groundshare or finding somewhere that’s fine to stick up some temp stands for 5,000ish seems viable.

Wasps amateurs unfortunately unsuited to hosting that sort of set up, more so than the other big London clubs

[sockwithaticket]

Hendy's from the wrong bit of the midlands.



6 Saints V 2 Tigers but Hendy is from the wrong bit of the midlands? I don't disagree that Hendy is a great player but the Tigers bias doesn't stack up.

I was being ever so slightly facetious. Ragging on Shillcock was the salient bit of the post.

[Slick]

The prospect of Wasps resuming in Kent inches forward.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 6l0rd7yqgo

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

I agree with this to an extent - there’s no chance they’re finding the money to buy land in Kent, build a stadium on it and finance a team that will be back in the Prem before long. A groundshare or finding somewhere that’s fine to stick up some temp stands for 5,000ish seems viable.

Wasps amateurs unfortunately unsuited to hosting that sort of set up, more so than the other big London clubs

Do they still have the old ground at Sunbury or is that long gone? Remember many nights there as a kid with my dad

[SaintK]

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

I agree with this to an extent - there’s no chance they’re finding the money to buy land in Kent, build a stadium on it and finance a team that will be back in the Prem before long. A groundshare or finding somewhere that’s fine to stick up some temp stands for 5,000ish seems viable.

Wasps amateurs unfortunately unsuited to hosting that sort of set up, more so than the other big London clubs

Do they still have the old ground at Sunbury or is that long gone? Remember many nights there as a kid with my dad

No, pretty sure it’s houses now
Wasp’s Amateurs play out of Acton at level 8
Have a good women’s section and m/j set up

[petej]

Heyes has actually been much better this year, so obviously he's dropped after being consistantly picked when he was indeed rubbish.

The terrible heyes tends to start leaving cole nice and fresh for England.

[Paddington Bear]

This all seems a bit silly, it’s never going to happen

I agree with this to an extent - there’s no chance they’re finding the money to buy land in Kent, build a stadium on it and finance a team that will be back in the Prem before long. A groundshare or finding somewhere that’s fine to stick up some temp stands for 5,000ish seems viable.

Wasps amateurs unfortunately unsuited to hosting that sort of set up, more so than the other big London clubs

Do they still have the old ground at Sunbury or is that long gone? Remember many nights there as a kid with my dad

Sunbury is London Irish Amateur, I thought Wasps had always been Acton as SaintK says but may be wrong. It’s a nice ground (Wasps) but very much an amateur club’s ground

[Slick]

I agree with this to an extent - there’s no chance they’re finding the money to buy land in Kent, build a stadium on it and finance a team that will be back in the Prem before long. A groundshare or finding somewhere that’s fine to stick up some temp stands for 5,000ish seems viable.

Wasps amateurs unfortunately unsuited to hosting that sort of set up, more so than the other big London clubs

Do they still have the old ground at Sunbury or is that long gone? Remember many nights there as a kid with my dad

Sunbury is London Irish Amateur, I thought Wasps had always been Acton as SaintK says but may be wrong. It’s a nice ground (Wasps) but very much an amateur club’s ground

It was Sudbury, not Sunbury, that was the old ground before Acton.

[inactionman]

Wondering if Borthwick will stick with the same team for Japan or give some of the up-and-coming a shot.

I'm not talking down on Japan, but you can't exactly risk a rookie in an All Blacks Test and we've got a fair few lads in the training squads who have shown promise but haven't made a Test squad yet.

It doesn't help that we're 0-for-3, of course, not an ideal time to be tinkering with squad options.

I'd be interested to see how the likes of Afo Fasogbon and Asher Opoku-Fordjour get on. I'll re-bang my Ted Hill drum at this point as well.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Wondering if Borthwick will stick with the same team for Japan or give some of the up-and-coming a shot.

I'm not talking down on Japan, but you can't exactly risk a rookie in an All Blacks Test and we've got a fair few lads in the training squads who have shown promise but haven't made a Test squad yet.

It doesn't help that we're 0-for-3, of course, not an ideal time to be tinkering with squad options.

I'd be interested to see how the likes of Afo Fasogbon and Asher Opoku-Fordjour get on. I'll re-bang my Ted Hill drum at this point as well.

We gave Spencer his first start against NZ, all but a rookie, maybe even still a rookie depending on how one qualifies. And we lost without attacking much, so the scope for things to go worse was limited

[JM2K6]

CCS was awful yesterday. Hill deserves a shot.

[el capitan]

Borthwick currently P27 W13 L14. With a 4-6 record at HQ ffs.
A win next weekend gets his win rate after two years back up to 50%. Worse than Johnson and Ashton, not yet quite as bad as Robinson.

0-3 against the All Blacks.
0-2 against the Boks.
0-2 against France.
0-2 against Scotland.
A first loss to Fiji.
Scraping wins against the Welsh and Italians.
His wins record propped up by two (soon three.....) against Japan, Chile, Samoa.

The plus points would be the win against Ireland, and then what.... Close defeats to a hardly vintage NZ team? Running France close in Paris? A World Cup spent playing anti-rugby terror-ball, getting a hugely fortunate draw, and then getting squeaked out by SA in the semi?

Attack seems very individualistic, largely give it to Marcus and pray. The players have already revolted once because the training was so useless.
Defensively we're Swiss cheese. Teams run through us, teams run around us.

This is not the record of someone who deserves to keep his job.

[Paddington Bear]

George has been a great servant of England and is a good leader I think, but we can’t afford to have a 50 minute captain

[SaintK]

CCS was awful yesterday. Hill deserves a shot.

Yep, most definitely but it won't happen!

[JM2K6]

CCS was awful yesterday. Hill deserves a shot.

Yep, most definitely but it won't happen!

I think he'll ring the changes against Japan if the A team plays well. It's a safe way to look at alternatives without it feeling like players have been dropped. And it works not be fair to actually drop CCS given his previous matches were his best displays for England; I just think Hill is the better player. Rest him against Japan, play Hill.

[Hal Jordan]

George has been a great servant of England and is a good leader I think, but we can’t afford to have a 50 minute captain

Worked with Hartley, but a young Jamie George was a way better force off the bench than LCD, who always seems to be coming back from injury.

[SaintK]

Good win by EnglandA 38 17 by the looks after being 10 5 down at halftime