NPR

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:53 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:29 pm https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:53 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:29 pm https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:27 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:53 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:29 pm https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

Would like to see Muncaster in his natural position but that aside I would think only Duhan will be complaining as Graham gets another opportunity to bump his try tally up v lesser sides

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:59 am TJ to Bristol is a done deal according to the Telegraph. Big loss for Glasgow.

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

charltom wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:01 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:53 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:29 pm https://x.com/Scotlandteam/status/18570 ... wVeuA&s=19

Chuffed for Muncaster, would have liked to see Jordan at 10 and Paterson at 15 but hey ho.

Is the A game being shown anywhere? Expect several of those guys to be involved.

Have to admit, I’m quite surprised how strong that 2nd XV looks after all my moaning about depth

I like it. And they clearly see TJ as a FB prospect so want to give him more time there.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:59 am TJ to Bristol is a done deal according to the Telegraph. Big loss for Glasgow.

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:38 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:38 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:38 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

My initial reaction is it stinks

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 11:59 am TJ to Bristol is a done deal according to the Telegraph. Big loss for Glasgow.

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:24 pm ohhhhhh, so we are all going to be nice and reasonable now are we? Pathetic!

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:54 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:24 pm ohhhhhh, so we are all going to be nice and reasonable now are we? Pathetic!

for a guy who came through a pretty unconventional pathway to be a key player in a URC winning team and now a full international Tier 1 cap - I'm gutted he's leaving Glasgow but wish him all the luck and well done on securing his financial future. He is above criticism, our Laird of Ayr.

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:56 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:59 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:52 pm

Yeah, an average of ten starts a year isn't really plenty of playing time.

There are only 20-odd games each season for Edinburgh and the back row is pretty attritional. I think you would want or expect some rotation there ideally.

Obviously Crosbie would have more starts at a club with fewer international-standard back rows but he is not really starved of professional experience, comparatively. Josh Bayliss is the same age and has a similar number of starts at Bath. Jack Dempsey is 3 years older and only has 36 more starts.

Professional experience does not necessarily equal a chance to push on or get game time in a certain position (in this case at 7). Bayliss is a jack of all trades back row who might not let anyone down but is a master of none of them. Crosbie had potential and was stuck grabbing game time in whatever position he could for a while and is now effectively a utility backrow with no set position nailed down as his best. Dempsey has more starts at 8 than Crosbie does starts.

That 2017 under 20s team gave three good international players but Crosbie and to a lesser extent CHH and Craig had the potential to be better than they are.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 5:20 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:56 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 1:59 pm

There are only 20-odd games each season for Edinburgh and the back row is pretty attritional. I think you would want or expect some rotation there ideally.

Obviously Crosbie would have more starts at a club with fewer international-standard back rows but he is not really starved of professional experience, comparatively. Josh Bayliss is the same age and has a similar number of starts at Bath. Jack Dempsey is 3 years older and only has 36 more starts.

Professional experience does not necessarily equal a chance to push on or get game time in a certain position (in this case at 7). Bayliss is a jack of all trades back row who might not let anyone down but is a master of none of them. Crosbie had potential and was stuck grabbing game time in whatever position he could for a while and is now effectively a utility backrow with no set position nailed down as his best. Dempsey has more starts at 8 than Crosbie does starts.

That 2017 under 20s team gave three good international players but Crosbie and to a lesser extent CHH and Craig had the potential to be better than they are.

The 2017 u20 team might be our greatest ever at that level. Alex Craig, Darcy Graham, Kinghorn, Crosbie, Matt Fagerson, McDowall, CHH and Tom Gordon all went on to be internationals and the likes of Ross McCann, Charlie Shiel, Cammy Hutchinson, Tom Dodd and Hamish Bain all went on to have professional careers.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 4:50 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:36 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 2:51 pm

Didn’t Duhan also fuck off sharpish after his first couple of caps?

It sounded like Jordan (and Duhan) would've been off for big money cap or no cap. And to be fair those two guys three years before playing for Scotland were going to drop out of professional rugby. Duhan for injury, Jordan for covid/no contract. They owe it to themselves to get as much money as possible in a short career. Residency players will always be a bit mercenary, just doesn't mean as much.

Would also make the point that in both cases, the Scottish system has rehabilitated a player who could have quit the pro game otherwise. Two fingers up to all of the ‘but where did he learn his rugby’ types.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:56 pm


Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:37 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:56 pm


Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:02 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:37 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:56 pm


Duhan, I think would've made it anywhere who paid for his hip operation.

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:22 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:02 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:37 pm

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 12:12 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:22 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:02 am

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

You've got to wonder how the SRU failed to make someone like Robbie Nairn (who was perhaps slightly less powerful but probably faster) into an international player when they did so much great work with Duhan.

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:22 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:02 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:37 pm

Of course he would, just as anyone who gave Jordan a chance would have seen it pay off.

The point is that the much-maligned SRU and Richard Cockerill both were absolutely right in Duhan’s case, and they deserve credit for it, as much as they deserve the dung that gets thrown at them for when things went wrong

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:25 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:22 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:02 am

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

He does still have all of those problems. Maybe less so under the high ball where he's actually quite good. Duhan isn't actually technically great but it's the planet theory in that he's bigger and faster than everyone and so doesn't need to be.

He was also a south African u20 and good enough to play pro rugby in france and SA. Tom Jordan did come from absolutely nowhere, NZ university rugby. If he'd joined say Watsonians and Edinburgh would he be who he is today? Eh.

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:05 am Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:05 am Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:14 am

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:05 am Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

robmatic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:29 am

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:14 am

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:05 am Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:31 am

robmatic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:29 am

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:14 am

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

He's 27 soon. 18 months younger than Horne and 4 years older than Dobie. Has to be time to look at the academy boys.

robmatic wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:29 am

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:14 am

Dogbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:05 am Ali Price off to Montpellier next season.

Good move for him.

Afshar to Edinburgh ......

Edinburgh really have made a mess at 9. The inability to develop a 9 or significantly improve Vellacott has left them in a situation of needing a 1st choice 9 to come in. Rather than being able to rely on Shiel and Vellacott while bleeding in someone like Paterson it needs money spent on the position.

Warr and White aren't available to slim SQ pickings available.

It has been a shambles really. Ideally, Shiel should have kicked on because I think he has the attributes but it seems like it isn't going to happen for him.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:15 pm Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:05 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:15 pm Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

If you are implying price impacted on the potential for Shiel to develop into a top pro then I think you are mistaken. Shiel was 26 when price arrived and had had many years to establish himself at pro level. His chance passed years ago. I would also add that Shiel played under Solomons, Cockeril, Blair and Everitt and none of them thought he was good enough. He had more than 50 appearances in that time so it’s not like he never got a chance at all.

I accept that’s not exactly a who’s who of the greatest ever coaches, but equally the grass always seems greener and players not playing inevitably get built up as the next great hope. I think Shiel simply wasn’t good enough.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:10 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:05 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:15 pm Shiel has been shat on at Edinburgh with coaches selecting the big name through fear despite them being shit. Price is entitled to go where he wants and make as much money doing so but I'm annoyed that he's been shifted to Edinburgh to appease Toony, stifled others development and played about 2 good games.

If you are implying price impacted on the potential for Shiel to develop into a top pro then I think you are mistaken. Shiel was 26 when price arrived and had had many years to establish himself at pro level. His chance passed years ago. I would also add that Shiel played under Solomons, Cockeril, Blair and Everitt and none of them thought he was good enough. He had more than 50 appearances in that time so it’s not like he never got a chance at all.

I accept that’s not exactly a who’s who of the greatest ever coaches, but equally the grass always seems greener and players not playing inevitably get built up as the next great hope. I think Shiel simply wasn’t good enough.

No I'm not, should be 2 paragraphs.