NPR

Punter15 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:32 pm Smith does at least attempt to tackle.

Deveron Boy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:06 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:02 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 1:37 pm

Unofortunately, it did bag two narrow wins against decent opposition and we may well end up 4 from 5 by the end of the tournament, which would certainly be taken as evidence that it is working even if we could quite as easily be 2 from 5.

We did also score four tries against France in fairness, which has nothing to do with their handling and seems to be getting overlooked. Kicking into position followed by well executed strike moves is not a horror show for spectators at all and seems to be what they’re attempting. A few handling errors and a dumb pen from Earl prevented it getting off the ground v Scotland but you can see what they’re trying to do.

Scotland in any case was exceptional in that the team shat themselves as soon as they realised it was a ‘Jamie Ritchie has arrived to play rugby day’ as opposed to ‘Jamie Ritchie has arrived to show off his beach weights and whinge at the ref’ day, leading to a decision to not offer Scotland any turnover opportunities in our own half. Take out a phenomenally dumb lineout pen in the last 5 minutes and the tactic probably leads to a 19-10 win over a bogey side and I’m convinced the narrative would be different

That’s a great take you keep thinking this england team are on the cusp of being special…. They played almost zero running rugby in the entire 80 mins

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:49 pm

Punter15 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:32 pm Smith does at least attempt to tackle.

He does what?

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:17 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:02 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 1:37 pm

Unofortunately, it did bag two narrow wins against decent opposition and we may well end up 4 from 5 by the end of the tournament, which would certainly be taken as evidence that it is working even if we could quite as easily be 2 from 5.

We did also score four tries against France in fairness, which has nothing to do with their handling and seems to be getting overlooked. Kicking into position followed by well executed strike moves is not a horror show for spectators at all and seems to be what they’re attempting. A few handling errors and a dumb pen from Earl prevented it getting off the ground v Scotland but you can see what they’re trying to do.

Scotland in any case was exceptional in that the team shat themselves as soon as they realised it was a ‘Jamie Ritchie has arrived to play rugby day’ as opposed to ‘Jamie Ritchie has arrived to show off his beach weights and whinge at the ref’ day, leading to a decision to not offer Scotland any turnover opportunities in our own half. Take out a phenomenally dumb lineout pen in the last 5 minutes and the tactic probably leads to a 19-10 win over a bogey side and I’m convinced the narrative would be different

In isolation, sure, it looks like maybe it's progress and they're building to something, but this is Borthwick's 3rd campaign and at least the 5th for this squad where there's been a mixture of horrific anti-rugby, promising attack, shizophrenic defence and a whole lot of mediocrity. I accept that we're not going to play a champagne rugby blinder every single game, let alone against decent opposition, but getting back to a place where we can at least look as fluid as the other leading teams and as cohesive in what we're trying to do shouldn't be too much to ask and yet it's been years.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:54 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:49 pm

Punter15 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:32 pm Smith does at least attempt to tackle.

He does what?

He's made plenty of tackles in this 6N @ completion rate of 70% - somewhat better than Earl. Marcus certainly doesn't lack conviction in tackling.

Punter15 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:34 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:54 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:49 pm


He does what?

He's made plenty of tackles in this 6N @ completion rate of 70% - somewhat better than Earl. Marcus certainly doesn't lack conviction in tackling.

Toga is deflecting from the point which is that Daly is a turnstile.

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:54 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:49 pm

Punter15 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:32 pm Smith does at least attempt to tackle.

He does what?

He's made plenty of tackles in this 6N @ completion rate of 70% - somewhat better than Earl. Marcus certainly doesn't lack conviction in tackling.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:58 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:54 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:49 pm


He does what?

He's made plenty of tackles in this 6N @ completion rate of 70% - somewhat better than Earl. Marcus certainly doesn't lack conviction in tackling.

He's rarely in the correct place to make the tackle in the first place! And he's a wet rag when he does get there.

It's hilarious reading the Quins board, they seriously think Marcus Smith is some kind of rugby God.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:17 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:02 pm

We did also score four tries against France in fairness, which has nothing to do with their handling and seems to be getting overlooked. Kicking into position followed by well executed strike moves is not a horror show for spectators at all and seems to be what they’re attempting. A few handling errors and a dumb pen from Earl prevented it getting off the ground v Scotland but you can see what they’re trying to do.

Scotland in any case was exceptional in that the team shat themselves as soon as they realised it was a ‘Jamie Ritchie has arrived to play rugby day’ as opposed to ‘Jamie Ritchie has arrived to show off his beach weights and whinge at the ref’ day, leading to a decision to not offer Scotland any turnover opportunities in our own half. Take out a phenomenally dumb lineout pen in the last 5 minutes and the tactic probably leads to a 19-10 win over a bogey side and I’m convinced the narrative would be different

In isolation, sure, it looks like maybe it's progress and they're building to something, but this is Borthwick's 3rd campaign and at least the 5th for this squad where there's been a mixture of horrific anti-rugby, promising attack, shizophrenic defence and a whole lot of mediocrity. I accept that we're not going to play a champagne rugby blinder every single game, let alone against decent opposition, but getting back to a place where we can at least look as fluid as the other leading teams and as cohesive in what we're trying to do shouldn't be too much to ask and yet it's been years.

I agree. I think they are trying and in Borthwick’s defence until three weeks ago he couldn’t catch a break and that left him and the side far more under the pump than they ought to be (isn’t his fault Earl flew off his feet in the last minute in France, Smith missed 3 kicks in Dunedin or Ford missed a last minute dg etc etc). There was clearly a monkey on their back v Scotland particularly (see how many times the players mentioned it in Inside Line).

If we play shit rugby in the next two matches I’ll happily reverse course but I can see what they’re trying to do

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:10 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:58 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 7:54 pm

He's made plenty of tackles in this 6N @ completion rate of 70% - somewhat better than Earl. Marcus certainly doesn't lack conviction in tackling.

He's rarely in the correct place to make the tackle in the first place! And he's a wet rag when he does get there.

It's hilarious reading the Quins board, they seriously think Marcus Smith is some kind of rugby God.

And if he played for Sarries, you'd agree.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:10 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:17 pm

In isolation, sure, it looks like maybe it's progress and they're building to something, but this is Borthwick's 3rd campaign and at least the 5th for this squad where there's been a mixture of horrific anti-rugby, promising attack, shizophrenic defence and a whole lot of mediocrity. I accept that we're not going to play a champagne rugby blinder every single game, let alone against decent opposition, but getting back to a place where we can at least look as fluid as the other leading teams and as cohesive in what we're trying to do shouldn't be too much to ask and yet it's been years.

I agree. I think they are trying and in Borthwick’s defence until three weeks ago he couldn’t catch a break and that left him and the side far more under the pump than they ought to be (isn’t his fault Earl flew off his feet in the last minute in France, Smith missed 3 kicks in Dunedin or Ford missed a last minute dg etc etc). There was clearly a monkey on their back v Scotland particularly (see how many times the players mentioned it in Inside Line).

If we play shit rugby in the next two matches I’ll happily reverse course but I can see what they’re trying to do

Nah, you've misread this one I'm afraid. England under Borthwick are, by ALL metrics, utterly dreadful. They literally don't play rugby. Now, if you play like that and fluke a win then you will not get much credit for the win. However, if you continue to play like that and lose then you deserve everything thrown at you.

England are awful. I said Borthwick would be Eddie-lite before he was hired and so did many others. And we're spot on. There is no redemption end to this story either btw, Borthwick won't have an epiphany and suddenly start playing attractive rugby. There will be no evolution in style, this is the Borthwick way - it doesn't change. He's pathologically averse to taking any kind of risk.

He's a data analytics nerd who has been promoted way way beyond his Peter Principle threshold. And we're stuck with the useless charisma-free prick for another three years.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:12 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:10 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 9:58 pm



He's rarely in the correct place to make the tackle in the first place! And he's a wet rag when he does get there.

It's hilarious reading the Quins board, they seriously think Marcus Smith is some kind of rugby God.

And if he played for Sarries, you'd agree.

You really don't understand me one bit. You should follow what I write more closely and you might learn something.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:31 pm U20s team for Friday night



Pushing for second championship on the spin, but a grand slam this time.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:40 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:31 pm U20s team for Friday night



Pushing for second championship on the spin, but a grand slam this time.

That team should be more than good enough to finish the job!

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:46 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:40 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:31 pm U20s team for Friday night



Pushing for second championship on the spin, but a grand slam this time.

That team should be more than good enough to finish the job!

They’ve been excellent, really enjoyable to watch. Chuck it around but have something up front as well.


Meanwhile the Telegraph report Roebuck will start on Saturday, not hating it

Tom Roebuck, the Sale Sharks wing, will make his first Test start against Wales with Tommy Freeman shifting to outside centre in another bold selection call by England head coach Steve Borthwick.
Roebuck has won three caps, but all have come as a replacement and the rangy wing has never previously featured in a Six Nations matchday squad.
But Telegraph Sport understands that Borthwick, who dropped Marcus Smith last week, is prepared to give the 24-year-old his full debut in the cauldron of the Principality Stadium.

Oxbow wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:57 pm Freeman alongside Dingwall should work well, also a bit of size to counter that big welsh fella, Llewelyn?

Oxbow wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:57 pm Freeman alongside Dingwall should work well, also a bit of size to counter that big welsh fella, Llewelyn?

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 1:28 pm

Oxbow wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 12:57 pm Freeman alongside Dingwall should work well, also a bit of size to counter that big welsh fella, Llewelyn?

If Slade is capable of walking, I would bet a certain amount on him starting at 12.

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 2:30 pm Some odd selections for Saturday's game

M Smith; Roebuck, Freeman, Dingwall, Daly; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Stuart, Itoje (capt), Chessum, T Curry, B Curry, Earl.

Replacements: George, Baxter, Heyes, Cunningham-South, Pollock, Willis, Van Poortvliet, Ford.

I can't see the point of dropping Sleightholme just to slot M Smith into full back. It would have been much better to play Roebuck and Sleightholme on the wings with Daly in his best position of 15. Having Ford on the replacements bench also seems stupid. We really don't need 3 FHs in the team.

Pollock is an interesting selection on the bench, but Van Poortvliet fills me with dread for the last 10 minutes when he will come on to kill any momentum England might have.

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 2:30 pm Some odd selections for Saturday's game

M Smith; Roebuck, Freeman, Dingwall, Daly; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Stuart, Itoje (capt), Chessum, T Curry, B Curry, Earl.

Replacements: George, Baxter, Heyes, Cunningham-South, Pollock, Willis, Van Poortvliet, Ford.

I can't see the point of dropping Sleightholme just to slot M Smith into full back. It would have been much better to play Roebuck and Sleightholme on the wings with Daly in his best position of 15. Having Ford on the replacements bench also seems stupid. We really don't need 3 FHs in the team.

Pollock is an interesting selection on the bench, but Van Poortvliet fills me with dread for the last 10 minutes when he will come on to kill any momentum England might have.

duke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:02 pm That selection is bizarre, both with the starting team and the subs bench, would far rather see Daly at fullback, Sleighthome on the wing and Willis at 8 as for last week.

I can't fathon the logic of having no 2nd row on the bench or Ford at all - it smacks a little of arrogance and the Welsh will be licking their chops at having Smith x2 and Ford all in the back line at some stage.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 3:24 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 2:30 pm Some odd selections for Saturday's game

M Smith; Roebuck, Freeman, Dingwall, Daly; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Stuart, Itoje (capt), Chessum, T Curry, B Curry, Earl.

Replacements: George, Baxter, Heyes, Cunningham-South, Pollock, Willis, Van Poortvliet, Ford.

I can't see the point of dropping Sleightholme just to slot M Smith into full back. It would have been much better to play Roebuck and Sleightholme on the wings with Daly in his best position of 15. Having Ford on the replacements bench also seems stupid. We really don't need 3 FHs in the team.

Pollock is an interesting selection on the bench, but Van Poortvliet fills me with dread for the last 10 minutes when he will come on to kill any momentum England might have.

Why the fuck have 3 fly halves been selected when none of them can actually cover any other position ( M Smith is not and never will be a full back). It's a bonkers selection pareticularly as Sleightholme played quite well and Daly went well at full back.
Backrow is unbalanced again and I'm not at all convinced that replacing Hill with Pollock is a good call either. Pollock should have earned his 1st cap in Argentina during the summer.

Punter15 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 4:42 pm Is Borthwick on a spectrum?

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 3:20 pm Cannot fathom what role we’re hoping Ford plays off the bench

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 8:58 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 3:24 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 2:30 pm Some odd selections for Saturday's game

M Smith; Roebuck, Freeman, Dingwall, Daly; F Smith, Mitchell; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Stuart, Itoje (capt), Chessum, T Curry, B Curry, Earl.

Replacements: George, Baxter, Heyes, Cunningham-South, Pollock, Willis, Van Poortvliet, Ford.

I can't see the point of dropping Sleightholme just to slot M Smith into full back. It would have been much better to play Roebuck and Sleightholme on the wings with Daly in his best position of 15. Having Ford on the replacements bench also seems stupid. We really don't need 3 FHs in the team.

Pollock is an interesting selection on the bench, but Van Poortvliet fills me with dread for the last 10 minutes when he will come on to kill any momentum England might have.

Why the fuck have 3 fly halves been selected when none of them can actually cover any other position ( M Smith is not and never will be a full back). It's a bonkers selection pareticularly as Sleightholme played quite well and Daly went well at full back.
Backrow is unbalanced again and I'm not at all convinced that replacing Hill with Pollock is a good call either. Pollock should have earned his 1st cap in Argentina during the summer.

Scabnose must have selected the side back when Wales were playing centers in every position, & refused to pick an actual OH

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:55 pm

duke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:02 pm That selection is bizarre, both with the starting team and the subs bench, would far rather see Daly at fullback, Sleighthome on the wing and Willis at 8 as for last week.

I can't fathon the logic of having no 2nd row on the bench or Ford at all - it smacks a little of arrogance and the Welsh will be licking their chops at having Smith x2 and Ford all in the back line at some stage.

To be honest in the event of an injury that requires that I think we’re more likely to see Earl in the centres.

I assume Ford is picked after seeing Scotland tear them apart out wide for the purposes of picking up a bonus point. Win the game first then have a charge at the end, any win in Cardiff for England is always a good result

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:55 pm

duke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:02 pm That selection is bizarre, both with the starting team and the subs bench, would far rather see Daly at fullback, Sleighthome on the wing and Willis at 8 as for last week.

I can't fathon the logic of having no 2nd row on the bench or Ford at all - it smacks a little of arrogance and the Welsh will be licking their chops at having Smith x2 and Ford all in the back line at some stage.

To be honest in the event of an injury that requires that I think we’re more likely to see Earl in the centres.

I assume Ford is picked after seeing Scotland tear them apart out wide for the purposes of picking up a bonus point. Win the game first then have a charge at the end, any win in Cardiff for England is always a good result

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 10:29 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 7:55 pm

duke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 5:02 pm That selection is bizarre, both with the starting team and the subs bench, would far rather see Daly at fullback, Sleighthome on the wing and Willis at 8 as for last week.

I can't fathon the logic of having no 2nd row on the bench or Ford at all - it smacks a little of arrogance and the Welsh will be licking their chops at having Smith x2 and Ford all in the back line at some stage.

To be honest in the event of an injury that requires that I think we’re more likely to see Earl in the centres.

I assume Ford is picked after seeing Scotland tear them apart out wide for the purposes of picking up a bonus point. Win the game first then have a charge at the end, any win in Cardiff for England is always a good result

Stuart Barnes did a piece the other day saying they should pick Earl at centre. I’m sure one of the England coaches was quoted as pretty much saying it was a stupid idea as he might be able to run hard from there but would be lost defensively